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  1. #1
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Hello basenoters,

    I just got my first small batch of aromachemichals and, to my surprise, some of them are in powder: Musk ketone, coumarin and indole. I have no clue on how to use them. Should I dilute them in ethanol or what? Sorry for the silly question, but I really need advice.

    Also, some are listed as toxic or even poisonous (indole carries a scary skull on the label). As I am doing some olfactory exercises on every new material I get, and I only had naturals so far. Should I proceed with these as I do with the naturals? Or there's any other way to exercise with them?

    Thanks

    Oveis

  2. #2

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Hi Ovies,
    No need to panic about the labels, just treat them with care, if you have them you should wear latex gloves when handling concentrated perfumery materials of any sort. Your naturals should most of them have similar warnings on them now too actually as most are covered by the same EU legislation. If you don't have gloves, take extra care and wash your hands very thoroughly after working with the materials even if you don't think you got any on you and resist the temptation to rub your eyes while you are working.

    The indole is very powerful so I would dilute in ethanol to 1% or even less, it dissolves without a struggle. If you are used to doing that by volume with liquids you're going to have to get to grips with weight - I've a blog post on weight vs volume that as well as one on diluting and blending.

    Coumarin isn't difficult to deal with, but you will probably have trouble with the musk ketone because it's difficult to dissolve. Most people use benzyl benzoate to dissolve it, which I guess you won't have. In that case go for a very weak solution in ethanol - no more than 5% - even then it's going to take a lot of effort to get it to dissolve. I use an automatic stirrer for those sorts of things, but you could try putting it in a sealed container and keeping it in your pocket so that it moves about with you all day. It may take a few days, but you should end up with a solution you can use.

    Hope that helps.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    5% Musk ketone in ethanol seemed not possible to get, I will try it with a magnetic stirrer. The standard solution however, for over a century is 20% musk ketone in benzyl benzoate. Coumarin I use in an alcoholic solution mostly, 10% is the max (or better: more is possible, but will crystalise every now and then). For indole I have a 10% and a 1% solution in DPG, works fine.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Eheh, don't worry about skulls Oveis, regarding indole just be careful not to spill it around. I accidentally knocked over 2 or 3 mils of a 1% solution on my desk and it's been like living in a pig's shed for a couple of days
    Sebastiano - Organic Chemist

  5. #5

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    The other thing with Indole and Musk Ketone; when you have dissolved them keep the solutions in the dark if possible. They will both (especially Indole) discolour like crazy.

  6. #6
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Lol

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks all, very helpful. I'm going to test them

  7. #7

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Yes, Indole turns orange in quite a short time. I must say that the fragrance still is good after discoloration. A lot other fragrance materials can cause discoloration, vanillin in soap is classic: a little vanillin can (but does not always) turn soap dark brown overnight.

    Indole carries a skull in the EU, like Essential oil of Rosemary (assuming your supplier does stick to the law and has any knowledge of safety matters). Just to remind you that it should not be part of your breakfast.

  8. #8
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Indole carries a skull in the EU, like Essential oil of Rosemary (assuming your supplier does stick to the law and has any knowledge of safety matters). Just to remind you that it should not be part of your breakfast.[/QUOTE]


  9. #9

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Quote Originally Posted by janmeut View Post
    Just to remind you that it should not be part of your breakfast.
    haha, lol, i love the way you put that.

    i now imagine a bottle of indole next to the salt shaker and pepper-pot. what's better on a soft boiled egg in the morning than a few drops of indole?

  10. #10
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Ok guys I diluted indole first. I have some ideas on what to blend it with, which is not necessarily how it is normally used, as I just let my imagination go. However, just to get some more tips, what's the standard indole use? I mean, I wanted to have it because I found its outlook extremely fascinating, but I am not really sure about its actual use. Any suggestions that I can use as starting point?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    The main use of indole in perfumery is as a component of what are referred to as 'white florals' the classic example of which is jasmine, but also gardenia, tuberose and many others.

    Very low proportions are normally used to enhance the florality of these compositions.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  12. #12
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    The main use of indole in perfumery is as a component of what are referred to as 'white florals' the classic example of which is jasmine, but also gardenia, tuberose and many others.

    Very low proportions are normally used to enhance the florality of these compositions.

    Thanks very much!

  13. #13

    Default Re: Powder chemicals - Need help on how to use

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    I use an automatic stirrer for those sorts of things, but you could try putting it in a sealed container and keeping it in your pocket so that it moves about with you all day. It may take a few days, but you should end up with a solution you can use.
    Brilliant Idea. wow. I'd have NEVER thought to do this. Much respect for this DIY solution!!!

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