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  1. #61
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenFreak View Post
    But I thought those were contact allergies, rather than allergies triggered by breathing the scent? Am I wrong? Edited to add: I'm asking seriously, not debating. I'd very much like to know if natural perfumes _tend_ to be less allergenic to non-wearers who breathe them.
    I get a splitting headache and my throat gets irritated whenever I smell Lavender (in pure EO form AND in "scents" that may or may not be natural.) I can tolerate it and even love it in things where the lavender is not apparent (LUSH's "therapy" massage bar) but if the lavender is strong enough to have any sort of presence at all, it will give me a splitting headache and irritate my throat.

    It's not an actual allergy (as that would be a histamine reaction and I don't believe I have that) but it certainly IS irritating. (And I have no issues with other things that contain some of the same "common allergen" compounds, like linalool. It's exclusive to lavender, as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure what it is about the lavender that does it.)

    I've never been tested for a sensitivity by a doctor (gee, I don't need an expert to tell me I have a headache!) but I can say with quite a bit of certainty that it's irritating as hell. Lavender also absolutely reeks to me (people think it smells good? really? lol I know, I know...) which is probably because my brain associates the scent with the reaction.

  2. #62

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Shoot. I wrote a post last night but something happened to it!

    Just wanted to say that I am that sensitive also. I have tons of allergies, to the point that I carry around an epi-pen. Allergies to mold, dust, pollens, insects, food, cats .... and I have seven cats. Once I went to an allergist and she took a look at my shirt, saw cat hairs and said, "you need to get rid of your cats." I walked out of the office without another word.

    Now, after working with a good allergist, I take two antihistamines per day, do a nasal wash 2x per day, Flonase 1x per day and will be doing the allergy shots also to boost my immune response. The fact is there are a lot of chemicals, smells, junk, etc. in the air these days. Allergies build up over time and exposure. I can react immediately with a massive headache if I smell those awful, metallic, synthetic perfumes - or even tobacco smoke on a person's clothes! But I can't go around expecting the world and everyone in it to adjust to my issues! (And yes, ChickenFreak, all you have to do is smell things to have a reaction. Chemicals, pollen, etc. are inhaled and cause an inflammatory response in the person's system.)

    She needs to get medical help for her problems and deal with them herself. I wouldn't indulge her either. (And don't have much sympathy for people who give up their pets because they have "allergies." If you got your pet, you're responsible for it for the rest of its life! Take allergy meds!) The only caveat to that is if the workplace had the rule that no perfumes were allowed. But clearly they don't. So it is her problem.

    I think jawjaw is being incredibly nice to consider changing his habits to suit her problems.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelee View Post
    but if the lavender is strong enough to have any sort of presence at all, it will give me a splitting headache and irritate my throat.

    It's not an actual allergy (as that would be a histamine reaction and I don't believe I have that) but it certainly IS irritating. (And I have no issues with other things that contain some of the same "common allergen" compounds, like linalool. It's exclusive to lavender, as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure what it is about the lavender that does it.)
    Kaelee: Without being a doctor, I'd say that's an allergy - especially your throat reaction. If your tongue was reacting too, that's the worst kind of allergy that needs attention immediately. You can easily have a reaction to some things and not others. If a bee stings me I have to be rushed to the hospital. But a wasp stung me last year and it just hurt really badly (which it does for anyone who gets stung by a wasp). I'm sure they are similar "compounds" but just different enough to make that difference for me. And possibly if I were stung every year by wasps I would get to the point that I'm at with bees.

    (I hate lavender too. And have always tried to like it because it is "supposed" to be so healing. Yuck! Not healing to me at all!)

  3. #63

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelee View Post
    I get a splitting headache and my throat gets irritated whenever I smell Lavender (in pure EO form AND in "scents" that may or may not be natural.) I can tolerate it and even love it in things where the lavender is not apparent (LUSH's "therapy" massage bar) but if the lavender is strong enough to have any sort of presence at all, it will give me a splitting headache and irritate my throat.

    It's not an actual allergy (as that would be a histamine reaction and I don't believe I have that) but it certainly IS irritating. (And I have no issues with other things that contain some of the same "common allergen" compounds, like linalool. It's exclusive to lavender, as far as I can tell, but I'm not sure what it is about the lavender that does it.)

    I've never been tested for a sensitivity by a doctor (gee, I don't need an expert to tell me I have a headache!) but I can say with quite a bit of certainty that it's irritating as hell. Lavender also absolutely reeks to me (people think it smells good? really? lol I know, I know...) which is probably because my brain associates the scent with the reaction.
    So you only react to Lavender if you can smell it, but if it is present and you can't smell it you don't react? Just re-read what you have written. That is not an allergy, that is in your head.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaelee View Post
    if the lavender is strong enough to have any sort of presence at all, it will give me a splitting headache and irritate my throat.
    It's not an actual allergy (as that would be a histamine reaction and I don't believe I have that) but it certainly IS irritating.
    That sounds exactly like an allergy. You could test it, if you really wanted to find out. Note how much it bothers your throat with something that does it to you, and do it another day but take a Benadryl a half hour before.

    I would not conduct this experiment if it was anything more than irritating, and even then only in a very small amount.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by Nosebud View Post
    That sounds exactly like an allergy. You could test it, if you really wanted to find out. Note how much it bothers your throat with something that does it to you, and do it another day but take a Benadryl a half hour before.

    I would not conduct this experiment if it was anything more than irritating, and even then only in a very small amount.
    ^^^ Yes!!!

    David Rushkin: If smells were only in people's heads what a bare world we would have! I bet if you did just a cursory amount of reading on the net about allergies, you would realize the statement you made is not at all accurate.

  6. #66

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    I feel sorry for the secretary but is the workplace is designated as *scent free* ? Perhaps it should be for her sake, but if not then perhaps she should look for a job in a scent free office. I'm tired of everybody's allergies infringing on MY rights. That said, I'm really a softy - I'd probably avoid using fragrance and look for some holistic health recommendations for her.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Wow...so much advice here.

    I'd try Molecule 01. It's so subtle and often not smelled by people. May be worth a try. It isnt your typical alcohol and oil type frag.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    I'm on my phone and can't reply to everyone so this is for he last 5 or so posters:

    The throat irritation may or may not be an actual allergy but it's not more than irritating. I don't think it's actually dangerous at this point.

    I actually do think that OP should not wear frags around his secretary- out of respect for her and her work space. Sure, you have the right to wear whatever you want on your own time, but doesn't she have the right to work in a healthy environment? Your *preference* for wearing fragrances does not superceed her right to a safe, healthy workplace.

    EDIT:

    I'm really sorry for the insane repetativeness of this post! Eeek! Blame my phone. Lol. Fixed it now.
    Last edited by Kaelee; 10th November 2012 at 04:54 AM.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    So you only react to Lavender if you can smell it, but if it is present and you can't smell it you don't react? Just re-read what you have written. That is not an allergy, that is in your head.
    Well, no, it's a reaction to a certain level. Me, I can eat a fruit salad containing kiwi and skip the pieces of kiwi, and be fine even though I've obviously ingested some kiwi juice. I can eat a bite or two of kiwi and get slightly indigested and get an odd feeling in my tongue, which I realize from another post in this thread probably means I should be taking kiwi far more seriously. Two kiwis, and I get a raw feeling over my entire mouth and tongue, almost immediate mock-heartburn, and I may vomit. (No, I don't run around eating kiwis any more; these are the data points that it took to make me realize, oh, the problem is kiwi.)

    So, yeah, I only have a reaction under circumstances when I've actually tasted the kiwi, because to have enough to have a reaction, I have to taste it. But that doesn't mean it's all in my head. If someone successfully concealed a full fruit's worth of kiwi flesh in, say, a strawberry-banana shake and I drank the whole thing without detecting the kiwi, I'm pretty sure I'd still get sick.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by dogodojo View Post
    (And yes, ChickenFreak, all you have to do is smell things to have a reaction. Chemicals, pollen, etc. are inhaled and cause an inflammatory response in the person's system.)
    Oh, yes, I knew that you can have an allergic reaction from breathing something, I just was under the impression that the issue with natural citrus and herbal oils was usually ("usually" - I realize that anyone can be allergic to anything in any way) contact or photosensitivity. It seems that I was wrong.

  10. #70
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenFreak View Post
    Well, no, it's a reaction to a certain level. Me, I can eat a fruit salad containing kiwi and skip the pieces of kiwi, and be fine even though I've obviously ingested some kiwi juice. I can eat a bite or two of kiwi and get slightly indigested and get an odd feeling in my tongue, which I realize from another post in this thread probably means I should be taking kiwi far more seriously. Two kiwis, and I get a raw feeling over my entire mouth and tongue, almost immediate mock-heartburn, and I may vomit. (No, I don't run around eating kiwis any more; these are the data points that it took to make me realize, oh, the problem is kiwi.)

    So, yeah, I only have a reaction under circumstances when I've actually tasted the kiwi, because to have enough to have a reaction, I have to taste it. But that doesn't mean it's all in my head. If someone successfully concealed a full fruit's worth of kiwi flesh in, say, a strawberry-banana shake and I drank the whole thing without detecting the kiwi, I'm pretty sure I'd still get sick.
    I'm the same way with mango- I can have some mango without issues. Some mango juice, or salsa, or a smoothie, or a piece or two of mango. If I eat a WHOLE mango? My lips blister.

  11. #71

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Wow. ChickenFreak - that kiwi allergy sounds serious! There are two kinds of food allergies (as I understood it years ago when I got tested). One is an intolerance to a certain food that rears its ugly head instantaneously the first time and every time you eat that food. Many people have an allergy to strawberries, peanuts, or shellfish like that. It is life threatening because, as you described, it doesn't take much to have your throat start to close down and be near death without intervention, and fast intervention. Since you have that kind of allergy, you should get tested (to find out if there are more foods like that), always have Benedryl on hand and probably carry an epi-pen with you also. Benedryl is one of two life-saving drugs I always have on hand (other is aspirin). So, if you ever feel a reaction like you described starting in your mouth, and you pop a Benedryl immediately, you will at least have some time before a full-blown reaction takes over.

    The second kind of food allergy is one that builds up over time - usually to foods we eat on a regular basis. So, for instance, say you drink milk every day (a highly allergenic food) and it was always fine. But, gradually over the years, you become less and less tolerant of milk (indigestion, hives, mucus production overload, insulin stimulation, etc.). That is a food allergy that can be controlled with antihistamines, diet changes and allergy shots. It could be dangerous but mostly it is irritating. Antihistamines will control it down to a dull roar.

  12. #72

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Seems to me that she has a problem, and that she expects the world to change because of it. I detest jackhammers and they drive me quite batty. It's not for as much that public works don't go on non-stop. I would say: "So you have that problem, do you? Well it sounds to me as if you might want to be a bit more pragmatic, perhaps wear one of those blue masques that are worn in hospital or by manicurists. They're very effective and you might get one at any local chemist's." --and be done with it. How is it that people now feel so self-entitled that they feel the entire world should shift according to their problems?
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  13. #73

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    An allergy is a physical response that your body makes to a specific chemical (called an allergen). If you are allergic to something then you will react whether or not you are aware of that particular chemical. So saying that someone is allergic to Lavender only if they can smell it, is a nonsense. You do not need to be aware of an allergen to react to it.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    I would just talk to her. Ask if she's so sensitive to scents that you'd have to wear clothes that haven't been in contact with them. And just don't wear fragrance when you're around her. That's not "indulging" - it's common sense and decency.
    As someone who has family members who are very allergic to certain things, it's not just a matter of "taking a pill". Besides, someone you work with shouldn't have to undergo treatment just to be able to go to work, when it's something as simple as fragrance that people really shouldn't have a problem not wearing when around her.

    I don't even see how this is a problem.

    Assuming that someone's exaggerating or that you know better when it comes to their allergy than they do, can put people in serious danger. How would you feel if that someone did indeed have a life-threatening reaction that put them in the hospital, simply because you didn't feel like not wearing perfume that day?

  15. #75

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    An allergy is a physical response that your body makes to a specific chemical (called an allergen). If you are allergic to something then you will react whether or not you are aware of that particular chemical. So saying that someone is allergic to Lavender only if they can smell it, is a nonsense. You do not need to be aware of an allergen to react to it.
    MCS doesn't react as a normal allergenic response. In my case, I believe it was caused by mycotoxicosis from living in a building that had bad air via black mold problems.

    As it waxed and waned (due to the waxing and waning of a fungal/yeast presence perhaps?) my general sensitivity and threshold for reactions would change. Very frustrating and confusing, but very real (just as phantom limb pain is real - that is, felt - even if there is no limb present).
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  16. #76

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what "MCS" is.

    Anything that "doesn't react as a normal allergenic response" isn't an allergenic response. Maybe I am being too picky but I just wanted to point out the illogicality of someone having "an allergic reaction" to Lavender only when they could smell it. That seemed to imply that if the Lavender oil was there but was undetectable (for whatever reason) then no allergic response occurred. Sorry, that is just not so.

    There has been a huge increase in allergies, and I sometimes think that people are jumping on the bandwagon. I am not doubting that those who are allergic can have a wretched time. I, myself, am allergic to cat hair, and I have friends who suffer every year from Hay Fever. I know that some allergies can be life threatening. However, some cases seem, to me, to be simply those who wish to draw attention to themselves, using some misunderstood science to back their claims.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    An allergy is a physical response that your body makes to a specific chemical (called an allergen). If you are allergic to something then you will react whether or not you are aware of that particular chemical. So saying that someone is allergic to Lavender only if they can smell it, is a nonsense. You do not need to be aware of an allergen to react to it.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what "MCS" is.

    Anything that "doesn't react as a normal allergenic response" isn't an allergenic response. Maybe I am being too picky but I just wanted to point out the illogicality of someone having "an allergic reaction" to Lavender only when they could smell it. That seemed to imply that if the Lavender oil was there but was undetectable (for whatever reason) then no allergic response occurred. Sorry, that is just not so.

    There has been a huge increase in allergies, and I sometimes think that people are jumping on the bandwagon. I am not doubting that those who are allergic can have a wretched time. I, myself, am allergic to cat hair, and I have friends who suffer every year from Hay Fever. I know that some allergies can be life threatening. However, some cases seem, to me, to be simply those who wish to draw attention to themselves, using some misunderstood science to back their claims.
    This is bullshit, and insulting bullshit at that.

    Remember a few pages back where I said I was pretty sure it WASN'T an allergy? Well I did. It may or may not be- whether or not it's a "true allergy" is irrelevant to me.

    Even if I didn't say that, you're wrong because it's perfectly possible, plausible and COMMON for people who are sensitive to/allergic to certain substances to only react to higher amounts of it. In fact there are at least two of us in this thread- ChickenFreak and I BOTH have reaction to a food (Kiwi and Mango respectively) but only if we ingest high enough amounts of it. Try telling me the visible rash that other people can easily see is "all in my head". Go on I dare you.

    The reason I don't react if I can't actually smell the lavender is because there's such a small amount that it's not enough to cause a reaction. This is a real phenomenon that actually happens to a lot of people. If you want to talk about "misunderstood science" maybe you should do some research first.

    The "I touched a desk that someone touched after eating peanut butter and now I'm dying" kind of allergy DOES happen- but it's very, very rare. Even for people who are deathly allergic to substances, it usually takes more than a trace amount to trigger a reaction (thankfully).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    Seems to me that she has a problem, and that she expects the world to change because of it. I detest jackhammers and they drive me quite batty. It's not for as much that public works don't go on non-stop. I would say: "So you have that problem, do you? Well it sounds to me as if you might want to be a bit more pragmatic, perhaps wear one of those blue masques that are worn in hospital or by manicurists. They're very effective and you might get one at any local chemist's." --and be done with it. How is it that people now feel so self-entitled that they feel the entire world should shift according to their problems?
    Maybe you should ask yourself why you feel so entitled that someone should have to put up with an uncomfortable reaction- allergic or otherwise- in her own office and her own workspace- just because you can't bear to go without your perfume for a day.

    And by the way those masks are NOT very effective against fumes/chemical vapors. They're mainly intended to block particulates, anything smaller gets right through.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Izzie View Post
    I would just talk to her. Ask if she's so sensitive to scents that you'd have to wear clothes that haven't been in contact with them. And just don't wear fragrance when you're around her. That's not "indulging" - it's common sense and decency.
    As someone who has family members who are very allergic to certain things, it's not just a matter of "taking a pill". Besides, someone you work with shouldn't have to undergo treatment just to be able to go to work, when it's something as simple as fragrance that people really shouldn't have a problem not wearing when around her.

    I don't even see how this is a problem.

    Assuming that someone's exaggerating or that you know better when it comes to their allergy than they do, can put people in serious danger. How would you feel if that someone did indeed have a life-threatening reaction that put them in the hospital, simply because you didn't feel like not wearing perfume that day?
    This exactly. x2 and +100.

  18. #78

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by dogodojo View Post
    The second kind of food allergy is one that builds up over time - usually to foods we eat on a regular basis. So, for instance, say you drink milk every day (a highly allergenic food) and it was always fine. But, gradually over the years, you become less and less tolerant of milk (indigestion, hives, mucus production overload, insulin stimulation, etc.). That is a food allergy that can be controlled with antihistamines, diet changes and allergy shots. It could be dangerous but mostly it is irritating. Antihistamines will control it down to a dull roar.
    For what it's worth, this one didn't happen the first time I ate kiwis - I used to buy a bag of five or six kiwis and kill them off over a day or so, and be just fine. I love kiwis. That's why when it did start to kick in, it took me several data points before I realized, "Oh, _kiwis_."

    However, it sounds like the twinges-in-my-tongue thing should nevertheless make me nervous.

  19. #79

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    I don't feel "self entitled" at all, in reaction to your post above. I do, however, feel that I have the right to my own freedoms, and, in my instance, to my understanding, wearing perfume in public is not yet illegal. (In the interest of people like ones being discussed just now, ultimately, it will be, so none of you sensitive-in-the-nose/allergy prone subjects should be worried: Your time will come.)

    Wearing perfume in public will become illegal within the next 5 to 10 years. This movement will start in the US, in California, (it has already started there) and will spread across the world from that point, much like the current ban on tobacco. Here we have yet another example of George Orwell's predictions all coming true: It's just taking a bit longer. As regards the workplace, this secretary might just as well consider another job than making all of her co-workers consider changing their lives because she has an unfortunate condition. This is my proof of not feeling self-entitled. I have been in work environments where certain noxious elements led me to simply change jobs. I see no sense in asking an entire team of workers to alter their lifestyles because I find them unpleasant or noxious.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  20. #80

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Forgive my ignorance but I have no idea what "MCS" is.

    Anything that "doesn't react as a normal allergenic response" isn't an allergenic response. Maybe I am being too picky but I just wanted to point out the illogicality of someone having "an allergic reaction" to Lavender only when they could smell it. That seemed to imply that if the Lavender oil was there but was undetectable (for whatever reason) then no allergic response occurred. Sorry, that is just not so.
    If the "whatever reason" is that it was there in tiny, trace amounts then it makes perfect sense. If a big dose of lavender oil were wrapped in a big dose of something so strong-smelling that it couldn't be detected, then I'm sure that the reaction would happen anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    There has been a huge increase in allergies, and I sometimes think that people are jumping on the bandwagon.
    The main theory that I've read for the increase in allergies is excessive cleanliness in childhood (in most of our childhoods) so that the immune system has nothing to defend against, and goes dysfunctional. I don't know if that theory turns out to be true or not, but it sounds plausible, and suggests that there are plenty of possible causes other than people seeking attention.

    Also, we're no doubt more aware of people with allergies because society is now acknowledging and accommodating for them. When the ADA came out and more people with mobility issues were seen in real life, that didn't mean that a lot of people decided that it would be fun to be in a wheelchair. It meant that people whose lives were restricted were now less restricted.

    I'm sure that some architects were annoyed that their ability to express themselves was affected by the requirement to design accessible buildings. I'm sure that some parents are annoyed that their ability to express themselves by sending peanut butter sandwiches has been eliminated at school. And we're annoyed that our ability to express ourselves with perfume at work has been limited. But I don't consider any of those things to be a genuinely bad thing. If a person can patronize a business, a child can go to school, and a person can hold a job, when otherwise they couldn't, then it's not a bad thing.

    Yeah, there are limits. If a person is so allergenic that their co-workers (or, in the case of a school, their fellow students) have to take a shower and put on institution-provided clothes when they arrive at a workplace, then we've reached the point where the accommodation needs to come some other way. But that's not what we're talking about here.

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    I am not doubting that those who are allergic can have a wretched time. I, myself, am allergic to cat hair, and I have friends who suffer every year from Hay Fever. I know that some allergies can be life threatening. However, some cases seem, to me, to be simply those who wish to draw attention to themselves, using some misunderstood science to back their claims.
    I certainly believe that there are plenty of people who will do _anything_ to get attention and to watch others fall all over themselves accommodating their needs. I've known lots of them. I was raised by one. But I don't believe that that's mostly true of people with scent allergies.

    And, really, that's _because_ I've known lots of attention addicts. Those people like to _see_ the attention, to actively (or passive-aggressively) demand it and watch people scurry. Accommodating a person with a scent allergy really isn't all that showy or satisfying for the person with the allergy. You can do it, even over-do it - buy the scent-free shampoo and soap and deodorant and laundry detergent, set up a scent-free drawer for your clothes - without the person you're accommodating seeing any of those steps. Where's the fun in that? If a person is going to make something up for the sake of attention, I think they'd make up something that's a lot more entertaining.

    And even if there are a few people pretending the need for a scent-free office, there are plenty of people who actually need one. Any of us might be required to comply with one at any time. So it's just as well to focus on strategies for compliance, as the OP did, rather than fighting to make the issue go away.


    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    As regards the workplace, this secretary might just as well consider another job than making all of her co-workers consider changing their lives because she has an unfortunate condition. This is my proof of not feeling self-entitled. I have been in work environments where certain noxious elements led me to simply change jobs. I see no sense in asking an entire team of workers to alter their lifestyles because I find them unpleasant or noxious.
    What job? What jobs exist where there are never any co-workers or customers, or where the co-workers or customers are guaranteed to be scent-free without that state being demanded by the employer? We're not talking about "another job" here. We're not talking about, "Oh, you're allergic to paint fumes? Well, maybe working for a painting company was a bad idea." We're not trying to make it safe for this person to work the cosmetics counter at Macy's. We're talking about the person quite likely being totally unemployable at almost any job. Just so we can express ourselves with perfume? No.
    Last edited by ChickenFreak; 10th November 2012 at 05:23 PM.

  21. #81
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    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    I don't feel "self entitled" at all, in reaction to your post above. I do, however, feel that I have the right to my own freedoms, and, in my instance, to my understanding, wearing perfume in public is not yet illegal. (In the interest of people like ones being discussed just now, ultimately, it will be, so none of you sensitive-in-the-nose/allergy prone subjects should be worried: Your time will come.)

    Wearing perfume in public will become illegal within the next 5 to 10 years. This movement will start in the US, in California, (it has already started there) and will spread across the world from that point, much like the current ban on tobacco. Here we have yet another example of George Orwell's predictions all coming true: It's just taking a bit longer. As regards the workplace, this secretary might just as well consider another job than making all of her co-workers consider changing their lives because she has an unfortunate condition. This is my proof of not feeling self-entitled. I have been in work environments where certain noxious elements led me to simply change jobs. I see no sense in asking an entire team of workers to alter their lifestyles because I find them unpleasant or noxious.
    At work, in an office environment, is not the same thing as "in public". On the street, in a public store, on public transportation- all of these things are "in public". But an office environment is NOT "in public" and therefor is not subject to the same rules and "rights" as you call them.

    Workers DO have the legal right to a safe, healthy work environment. And employers DO have the right to ask their employees NOT to wear perfume, or whatever else, for whatever reason or no reason at all. They do not however have the right to control what happens outside the four walls of their building(s).

    So no, you do NOT have the "RIGHT" to wear perfume at work, if it's not permitted for whatever reason or no reason. You do not, generally, have the RIGHT to wear it if you've been asked not to. It's work, not your trip to the movies, the mall, your dinner date. The secretary in this case DOES have the RIGHT to work in a safe, healthy environment.

    No one's saying don't wear perfume in public. They're saying don't wear it in the office space of someone who's allergic. There's a HUGE difference.

    Last time I checked, not wearing perfume (or your favorite shirt, or shoes, or hat) at work was NOT a major life change.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ChickenFreak View Post
    I'm sure that some architects were annoyed that their ability to express themselves was affected by the requirement to design accessible buildings. I'm sure that some parents are annoyed that their ability to express themselves by sending peanut butter sandwiches has been eliminated at school. And we're annoyed that our ability to express ourselves with perfume at work has been limited. But I don't consider any of those things to be a genuinely bad thing. If a person can patronize a business, a child can go to school, and a person can hold a job, when otherwise they couldn't, then it's not a bad thing.
    LOL ChickenFreak, I think I love you. I know you were being serious but this cracked me up. (And I can just see an architect screaming his or her head off about her God-Given Right of Self Expression that involves a rope ladder as the only method of access to a building).

    Yeah, there are limits. If a person is so allergenic that their co-workers (or, in the case of a school, their fellow students) have to take a shower and put on institution-provided clothes when they arrive at a workplace, then we've reached the point where the accommodation needs to come some other way. But that's not what we're talking about here.
    This is so true. And really, it's just common sense. I wear perfume myself, I wear it to work (I don't work in a tiny office environment though, I work in a big open-air shop). I have coworkers whos cologne I can smell from 10 feet away- but I don't have any reaction to it, don't find it offensive and so don't have a problem with it.

    If someone were to tell me that my perfume is offensive or causing a reaction (allergic or otherwise) that is dangerous or even uncomfortable, my reaction would most certainly be to apologize profusely and never wear that perfume around that person again. If that means I don't wear it to work, so be it. There are plenty of other places where I CAN and WILL wear it. Really, not wearing it isn't any different than putting my uniform on before I go to work. It wouldn't be infringing on my "rights" any more than wearing my composite-toed safety shoes infringes on my "right" to wear stiletto sandals.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    This thread is very appropriately named.
    "...a Chacun son Mauvais Gout."

  23. #83

    Default Re: Basenoter Worst Nightmare

    Quote Originally Posted by le mouchoir de monsieur View Post
    This thread is very appropriately named.
    I agree! I think it's run it's course.

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