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Thread: Kashan rose oil

  1. #1
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Kashan rose oil

    Hello Basenoters,

    besides being a beginner amateur perfumer, I am also a researcher in Middle Eastern Studies and have to do mostly with Iran.
    I knew before getting into perfumes that the city Kashan has a long tradition of rose water and rose oil production, and the rose they grow is botanically the same you find in Taif, Grass, Bulgaria etc. An agronomist I am in touch with and who wrote a monograph on the subject even claims, based on molecular evidence, that the rosa damascena did in fact first originate from Iran. Now, I do not know of the use of the Kashan variation of the rosa damascena in perfumery (I know it is very sought after in the Arab world, though) but I am curious to give it a go.

    I got in touch with a trusted vendor in Iran who would sell 20 ml for about $60. Please tell me if you are interested in getting some, and also if you have more informations about its use in perfumery, quality etc.

    Alessandro

  2. #2

    Default Re: Kashan rose oil

    I've not tried this myself, but I'd be very interested to do so. Are we talking about the otto (= essential oil) or absolute or some other type of extraction?
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Kashan rose oil

    My parents bought me a tiny vial of some stunning rose oil from there after they had been on holiday. Unfortunately they didn't ask exactly what rose it was. I can only think it is the damascus rose from the smell. The quality is wonderful.

  4. #4
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Kashan rose oil

    Good question Chris.

    As we are corresponding in farsi, I can translate you what he is saying to me. He has two grades, which he calls "first oil" and "second oil". The first he says has a waxy texture. The second is oil and costs about three times the first. I just wrote to him asking for details, though.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Kashan rose oil

    In case it helps, these are the most likely options:

    Rose otto (this is liquid at room temperature but solidifies when cold - so under refrigeration for example). It is made by distilling the rose petals with water and usually has a very pale yellow, almost white colour. The water used in the distillation process acquires a strong rose fragrance too and is both sold as 'rose water' and sometimes subjected to a further solvent extraction to give an absolute from rose water - I've never had any of that with rose, but I have some from the equivalent process with bitter orange flowers and it's very interesting.

    Rose absolute (also liquid and will not usually solidify unless its very cold indeed). This is made by solvent (hexane) extraction of the the petals to yield a concréte - perhaps what your friend means by 'first oil' - the concrete is then further extracted 'washed' with alcohol, that is then evaporated off under vacuum to yield the absolute - second oil? - and leaving behind a rose wax that is still fragrant and sometimes sold for use in solid perfumes, soaps and candles but is no use for alcoholic perfumes because the alcohol soluble elements have been extracted.

    There is also a Super Critical Carbon Dioxide extract, made by extracting the petals with CO2 that is kept liquid under pressure so that the extraction happens at room temperature. The resulting extract (technically a concréte) can sometimes then also be further extracted with alcohol to give an absolute that will be full soluble in ethanol. This last is relatively rarely done and horribly expensive.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  6. #6
    Basenotes Member
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    Default Re: Kashan rose oil

    http://barijessence.com/files/fa/Doc/Herbs/Rosa.pdf

    Based on the description given here (it's from the website of the company the guy I am in contact with works for), the first oil is obtained through a second distillation of the first oil, which is in turn obtained by distillation

    - - - Updated - - -

    as a sub paragraph of the second oil, it gives a "perfect essence" (you can see where it gives "gold liquid), which is seems to be made out of a distillation of the first and the second oil together.

    Then, as you can see, the article gives also the concrete and the absolute, but I think what they are offering to me is two qualities of rose otto

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am gathering requests for this rose otto, so whoever wants to join please drop me a private message.

    The only question mark is timing. Iran is under financial sanctions that make it very tough to send money through the regular means. So I will have to wait for trusted friends/colleagues to actaully travel to Iran, bring the money and come back with the oil.

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