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  1. #1

    Default Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    I am currently very fond of Eutopie's No. 2, and absolutely love the combination of a very fine, pure and beautiful rose top note with an incredibly dark, black, deep, intense oud wood resin musk base. This one is great, but I want more - does anyone have any recommendations of similar or comparable frangrances that can be worth looking at?

    Thank you,
    Robert

  2. #2
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Secret Oud by Caron

  3. #3

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Black Aoud by Montale would have to be tested.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Histoire de Parfums Edition Rare Rosam--Freaky amber rose

    Ungaro III--Rose-vodka manic depressive

    Whips and Roses (Kerosene)--Rose-tinted leather

  5. #5
    Dependent
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Davidoff Zino - not all that much rose but it's present for sure.
    Shiseido Basala - rich, dirty sandalwood base

  6. #6

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Washington Tremlett Black Tie

  7. #7

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Amouage Lyric Man

  8. #8

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Voleur de Roses might be just the ticket.
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  9. #9

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Welcome!

    As you and others have pointed out, rose + oud is a classic combo of Arabian perfumery. In the west, the above mentioned Montales (Black Aoud primarily, but also Oud Cuir d'Arabie and others), Dior Rose Ispahan, Amouage Lyric or Epic, etc. HdP Rosam, also mentioned above, is technically in the same neighborhood, but the base is weird, a metallic, bilgey note; it could click if you like aquatics.

    In different directions, there's Tom Ford Noir de Noir (rose + chocolate) or the old staple, Estee Lauder Knowing (neon rose + moss. In the same style, the even stronger but now sadly defunct Montana Parfum de Peau and Sinan).

    cacio

  10. #10
    Basenotes Junkie SirNosebleed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Frederic Malle's Portrait of a Lady ....rose+oud+patchouli

  11. #11

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    surpriced i am the first to mention c&s 88 - the 'vampire' rose... there you surely go dark

  12. #12

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Tom Ford Noir de Noir or the new Cafe Rose
    Seasonal favorites:

    1. Creed - Pure White Cologne
    2. Creed - Aventus
    3. Tom Ford - Grey Vetiver
    4.
    by Kilian - Straight to Heaven
    5. Clive Christian - 1872
    6. Montale - Aoud Legacy
    7. Xerjoff - Nio
    8. Neela Vermeire - Bombay Bling
    9. The Different Company - De Bachmakov
    10. Chanel - Allure Homme Edition Blanche

  13. #13

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Two that come to mind you should try are:

    Dior Oud Ispahan
    Heely Agarwoud

    both have rose with oud and woods (Heely) or oud and leather (Oud Ispahan).

  14. #14
    Frag Bomb Squadron XVII
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    A tricky combo. If the oud is too intense, the rose accord gets overwhelmed. My current favorite pair:

    By Kilian Rose Oud
    Armani Prive Rose d'Arabie

  15. #15
    Super Member Picassoutine's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Vetiver-Rajasthan Rose Attar by Floracopeia.

    plain and simple

  16. #16

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Rose Paestum

    for swap/sale:





  17. #17

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Noir de Noir and Portrait of a Lady.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    One of the darkest I've smelled is Roja Dove's Aoud.


    Discover my Guest Reviewer Of The Day here

  19. #19

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Penhaligons Hammam Bouquet
    Ungaro II
    Esencia Loewe

  20. #20

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Tom Ford / Noir de Noir

  21. #21

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Absolutely- 7 Billion Hearts by CBIHP. I have 5mls if you would like to have some. Trade or purchase for exactly what I bought it for. The whole fragrance is exactly what you describe as wanting. Dark base (smoky too) and ROSE !!
    Take care-Glenn
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  22. #22

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Thank you so much for that great help and so many interesting suggestions!

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Secret Oud by Caron
    That surely is an excellent and very interesting suggestion, for it also seems to have a strong saffron note which is also present and quite prominent in Eutopie No. 2, and obviously dark base notes. Interesting that the only review here states "I came for the oud and was left wanting". I'll definitely give it a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Awakening950 View Post
    Black Aoud by Montale
    Oh yes, I hadn't thought of Montale (a house I have not had any exposure to yet). Might be a bit more on the sweet than on the dark side, look forward to finding that out

    Quote Originally Posted by Hojji77 View Post
    Histoire de Parfums Edition Rare Rosam
    HdP - another house that I yet haven't had the time and courage to become familiar with. This may also be a bit on the creamy-woody side, but definitely worth a try.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hojji77 View Post
    Ungaro III
    Ah, the drunk gothic rose Will be a nice treat to find a vintage red-cap...

    Quote Originally Posted by Hojji77 View Post
    Whips and Roses (Kerosene)
    That one sounds very interesting - a rose wearing a stained leather jacket Probably not what I'm looking for along these lines here, but got me curious so a must-try!

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post
    Davidoff Zino
    Hmm, no sorry, not at all in my book. By a funny coincidence, I had tried this yesterday when finding the late reformulated version in a local perfumery, apart from bringing up lots of good memories from 20+ years I still couldn't stand the overly sweet base. This one is just not for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyBars View Post
    Shiseido Basala
    I vaguely remember that to be more a spicy oriental with sandalwood...? Thanks for the hint, will revisit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nersh View Post
    Washington Tremlett Black Tie
    Thanks for pointing that one out. I'm not a huge fan of WT and don't really find this dark or deep, just woody, with vanilla which in so many cases I just can't stand anymore, it's all over the place nowadays, isn't it?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Amouage Lyric Man
    Ah, that sounds interesting! Although maybe again a bit more sweet than dark, I like what I have seen/smelled from Amouage so far, so will want to find out!

    Quote Originally Posted by knightowl View Post
    Voleur de Roses
    Ah yes, many thanks, I like L'Artisan Parfumeur a lot (their Tea for Two, for instance, is one of my favourites). Patchouli might be a problem, like Vanilla, but of course I have to try this one.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    C&s 88.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Another vote for TF Noir de Noir.

    Maybe also check out Mancera - Roses Vanille? A sweet rose / vanilla combo on a woody cedar base.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Welcome!

    As you and others have pointed out, rose + oud is a classic combo of Arabian perfumery. In the west, the above mentioned Montales (Black Aoud primarily, but also Oud Cuir d'Arabie and others), Dior Rose Ispahan, Amouage Lyric or Epic, etc. *HdP Rosam, also mentioned above, is technically in the same neighborhood, but the base is weird, a metallic, bilgey note; it could click if you like aquatics.

    In different directions, there's Tom Ford Noir de Noir (rose + chocolate) or the old staple, Estee Lauder Knowing (neon rose + moss. In the same style, the even stronger but now sadly defunct Montana Parfum de Peau and Sinan).

    cacio
    Many thanks for the Welcome and the detailed and very helpful reply cacio!

    I'm not convinced that oud alone can yield that dark, deep experience that Eutopie No. 2 has and which I am after (and no, I'm not really into aquatics), I think that saffron's contribution is good but also these resins and incenses and dark woods do the trick. Will definitely be a journey to find that out for me, yet an extremely interesting and pleasant one, making sure I also take the chocolate detour

    Thank you,
    Robert

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SirNosebleed View Post
    Frederic Malle's Portrait of a Lady ....rose+oud+patchouli
    I'm not a huge friend of patchouli, yet possibly the incense, amber and musk tone things down here. Got to try (like the other Malle creations)

    Quote Originally Posted by mspa View Post
    c&s 88 - the 'vampire' rose... there you surely go dark
    Wow, that sounds grand - I thought 88 to be quite similar to Black Tie? I definitely need to date the 'vampire rose'!

    Quote Originally Posted by dougczar View Post
    Tom Ford Cafe Rose
    Yesss, that's on my list for sure!

    Quote Originally Posted by Buzzlepuff View Post
    Heely Agarwoud
    I love Heeley and have all of his fragrances. Yet for what I'm looking here, Agarwould in my perception is too light, friendly, elegant, distant.

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondflame View Post
    A tricky combo. If the oud is too intense, the rose accord gets overwhelmed. My current favorite pair:
    By Kilian Rose Oud
    Armani Prive Rose d'Arabie
    Good point! These two also have saffron, that really seems to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Picassoutine View Post
    Vetiver-Rajasthan Rose Attar by Floracopeia
    Interesting - haven't seen Floracopeia round here in Europe, but they do sell direct, so will look through their website

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Rose Paestum
    Ah - umm, in fact I have a sample of this somewhere round here... I hadn't given this too much attention in the first place because it was a rather confusing spicy potpouri to my nose, will give it a revisit!

    Quote Originally Posted by alfarom View Post
    One of the darkest I've smelled is Roja Dove's Aoud.
    That sounds interesting alfarom, I must confess I had not come across Roja Dove before. Your review isn't exactly exstatic though, is it? You're so right, rose-oud is not too original and interesting anymore, that's why I was so thrilled to see this ultradark twist here in Eutopie No. 2 (or at least in the way I perceive and interpret it )

  26. #26

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    +1
    Rose Oud

  27. #27

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken_Russell View Post
    Penhaligons Hammam Bouquet
    Ungaro II
    Esencia Loewe
    Hmm, I remember Hammam Bouquet surely as a rose scent but overall rather spicy with citrus and florals, yes wood but not dark. Probably worth a revisit.
    Does Ungaro II have a prominent rose scent...? Problem anyway surely is to find it in the first place...
    I am not familiar with Esencia Loewe, will give it a try!

    Quote Originally Posted by mi-hooked? View Post
    Absolutely- 7 Billion Hearts by CBIHP. The whole fragrance is exactly what you describe as wanting. Dark base (smoky too) and ROSE !!
    CBIHP describe this as a vanilla smoke scent...? Will send PM.

    Quote Originally Posted by NoVaScentz View Post
    Maybe also check out Mancera - Roses Vanille? A sweet rose / vanilla combo on a woody cedar base.
    Mancera is not in the Basenotes database yet, right? Although 'sweet' and 'vanilla' sound pretty dreadful to me, I'll try to hunt them down round here.

    Again, thank you allnso much!!!

  28. #28

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Some of the Montales are very dark - their oud reproduction is heavy on the woody-cedary side, with little sweetness, especially Black Aoud or Oud Cuir d'Arabie). Saffron is often present too. The most saffrony of the lot is probably Montale Aoud Lime.

    But it is true that some other oud reproductions, especially from other brands, have more pronunced sweetness rather than darkness.

    cacio

  29. #29

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Thanks again cacio.

    Montale really is a house I wanted to make myself familiar with for quite some time, so now even more with this current idea seems to be a good time.

  30. #30
    Dependent OctaVariuM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    I agree with Whips and Roses, Noir de Noir, and Black Aoud, though I've never smelled them, all the reviews indicate they are quite dark and interesting. Also, incense rose may be up your alley.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by OctaVariuM View Post
    incense rose may be up your alley.
    Ah yes, right, Mr Tauer seems to have thought along the same lines Thanks, good suggestion, will try!

  32. #32

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    I should warn that while certainly worth trying, Tauer's Incense Rose had a decided potpourri effect, especially in the first half as the citrus mingles with the rose and spices. Not quite the edge I was looking for, but your experience may vary. (For what it's worth, I didn't get much of a potpourri vibe from Paestrum Rose, but rather a radiant, peppery/spicy and tangy rose. Good stuff.)

  33. #33
    Basenotes Plus
    knit at nite's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Warning- I'm about to be one of those insufferable members who suggest things that are nigh on impossible to find these days but here goes: L'Arte di Gucci.
    A Scent Rescuer
    Every great perfume deserves a good home

  34. #34

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Thanks for the warning. I'm not too fond of potpourris either (good to hear that my memory re Paestum Rose may not be correct, I will give it another try tomorrow), but agree that Tauer should be worth trying, even more now that expectations are corrected

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by knit at nite View Post
    Warning- I'm about to be one of those insufferable members who suggest things that are nigh on impossible to find these days but here goes: L'Arte di Gucci.
    I am not familiar with this Gucci fragrance, but the reviews here are fantastic: "Fans of dark rosy chypres, particularly those in the mossy 1980s style, will likely go nuts over L'Arte di Gucci". So I am happy to read "If you've ever smelled Van Cleef & Arpels Pour Homme, you'll have a pretty good idea of what this smells like" - so that's what I'll do next to find out if I need to go on a hunt

  35. #35

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    I'm surprised no one has mentioned Malle's Une Rose.
    This one certainly qualifies IMO.
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

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  36. #36
    Super Member farang's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Have you tried Guerlain's Rose Nacrée du Desert?
    It is a beautiful rose with oud and spices. If it is dark enough though....I don't know.
    * Serge Lutens rules *
    Fille en Aiguilles & Gris Clair & Fleurs d'Oranger & Tubereuse Criminelle & Sarrasins & Fumerie Turque & A la Nuit & Santal Majuscule & Sa Majeste la Rose & Five O'Clock Au Gingembre

  37. #37

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by mrcologneguy View Post
    Amouage Lyric Man
    +1 damn right!

  38. #38

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
    Malle's Une Rose
    Ah yes, another interesting fragrance from Mr. Malle! I definitely need to make myself familiar with this house.

    Quote Originally Posted by farang View Post
    Guerlain's Rose Nacrée du Desert
    Ah, I see this is on top of your 'Current Favourites' list No, I don't know this one yet, probably a bit on the brighter oud side, but surely worth trying!

    Thank you,
    Robert

  39. #39
    Basenotes Junkie staticx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    My vote goes to a cheapie.....Vermeil for Men...its just too good for me!!

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    N de N
    No 88
    I was born to shoot guns and smell good doin it!

    Shane "The Bopper" Stagg

  41. #41

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Arabian Diamond by M. Micallef is the embodiment of the Rose/Oud arabian combo:




    but if you are not willing to go into bankrupcy LOL Aseel by Al Rehab is a good substitute:



    For western type perfume either of the three Ungaro pour l'Homme would do fine:

    Perfume lovers of the world UNITE!!!!!

  42. #42

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by staticx View Post
    ...Vermeil for Men...
    I must admit that I had not heard of Vermeil before, but the reviews here indeed indicate that this might be along the lines I'm looking. Many thanks, will try!


    Quote Originally Posted by PerfumeCollector View Post
    ...the embodiment of the Rose/Oud arabian combo...
    Many thanks - yet I'm neither looking for bankruptcy nor for the classic rose/oud combo - at least from my very limited experience so far, this often turned out to be way to "bright", spicy, often even sweet and light-woody for my taste. That's why I was so positively surprised by this combination of fine and delicate rose scents with ultra dark and deep incense, resin and musk waverings in Eutopie No. 2

    Quote Originally Posted by PerfumeCollector View Post
    ...the three Ungaro pour l'Homme...
    I wouldn't have thought of Ungaro at all, yet it's surely one of the easier tasks to test a current Ungaro III first, and then see if bankruptcy through hunting down vintage versions will apply Many thanks!

  43. #43

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    +3 Czech & Speake - No.88

    Rose and very dark base.

  44. #44

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    On me I find the Hammam Bouquet drydown quite a dark rose - not ultra-sinister dark but dark nonetheless. And Armouage Lyric Man definitely fits the bill.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    jo malone velvet rose and oud...dark and awesome

  46. #46

    Default Re: Rose plus very dark base - any ideas?

    Quote Originally Posted by agml65 View Post
    jo malone velvet rose and oud
    Ah, I hadn't seen this one yet - I know a few Jo Malone fragrances already (e.g. Earl Grey & Cucumber) and like that style a lot, so this is a must try. Many thanks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Estee Lauder Knowing (neon rose + moss)
    I had the opportunity to try a vintage Estée Lauder 'Knowing' today. Surely not at all what I'm looking for in this thread, yet a very elegant, very well and fine balanced light and pleasing chypre, florals paired with woods. Very fine, but a completely different story.

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