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  1. #1

    Default PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I am looking to buy realistic rose, jasmine and sandalwood replacers from PA and also real rose absolute from hermitage oils.

    Perfumer's apprentice has a rose key accord and rose fragrance oil. (I heard that they rose key accord wasn't great).

    PA also have arabian sandalwood fragrance oil and sandalwood key accord and

    Jasmine key accord and jasmin fragrance oil.

    Can anyone advise which ones above are realistic/natural as poss or where I can buy ones which are.

    I am also looking at buy a real rose absolute from hermitage oils and can't decide between (A) rose absolute morroco or (b) rose absolute bulgarian? Any advice on what they smell like? (If it helps, I like the smell of jurlique's rosewater and jo malone's red rose so am trying to buy something similar to those.)

    Thanks

  2. #2
    Super Member racuda's Avatar
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    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I have PA's Sandalwood accord. It smells toxic, just like the strong vinyl smell when you unwrap a new shower curtain. In fairness, that is my impression of it smelled alone. Maybe it would be better used in small doses in a blend. I've had success using Ebanol and Javanol, along with a little New Caladonia sandalwood oil.

    It's too bad that you say their rose key accord isn't so good because I have some on the way.
    Last edited by racuda; 9th December 2012 at 01:18 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I have their rose accord, and it smells pleasant. It doesn't smell like rose absolute per se, but it's nice. I can't comment on the performance aspect of it, since I haven't experimented with blending it. I've not experienced their Sandalwood key accord, but I very much like their Green Leaf key accord and their Ylang key accord might as well be nature identical, as far as I'm concerned (maybe a touch brighter than natural ylang). I like their Carnation key accord. I've actually had their Arabian Sandalwood fragrance oil before, and it was more floral than I expected. Their Leather accord is nice, if you like a Safraleine-type leather. Their Tobacco accord is pleasant, but I really didn't get that much of a tobacco from it.

    I don't know that the key accords are supposed to be -replacements-, however. If you want a rose absolute smell, you're not going to like the Rose key accord. It seems to be more of a perfume idea of a rose, not the absolute, which has a lot of heaviness and doesn't really smell like the flower anyway. But I think even the best bases may not necessarily smell exactly like the natural material--Sampaquita (Givaudan's jasmine sambac base), for example, smells like jasmine sambac but it doesn't smell exactly like the absolute. I like to say that it smells like jasmine sambac "with all the lights turned on." I've actually had more success blending the Sampaquita base than natural jasmine absolute.

    But I think anyone who smells PA's rose accord is going to know immediately that it's supposed to be rose. I think it could easily be used to build or boost a rose accord.

  4. #4

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I have their rose accord and I don't really like it. I like my rose heavy and vintage. Their rose accord is too bright, too fresh and too fruity. Given the myriad of roses out there, it's possible that they are after the smell of a certain cultivar of rose. But at least the roses in my garden don't smell like that at all...

  5. #5

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Thanks for your advice - I won't buy the key accords or the fragrance oils as it looks like they won't replace the rose, jasmine or sandalwood. Perhaps I need to look at other supplier's eg http://www.olfactik.com/ who sell jasmin and rose bases to see if I can get a rose or jasmine that smells v similar to the EO/absolute - does anyone have any experience of those?

  6. #6

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I have the Sandalwood accord from Olfactik, as a matter of fact. It doesn't smell like natural sandalwood. As a matter of fact, I don't really like it at all. It has a strange minty thing going on, as if they used geranium to try to create the rosy note in it. I don't think it works.

    I also think that if you're looking for a direct replacer for an absolute, you're not going to find what you're looking for. I would expect any reconstruction to come out smelling brighter and less dense.

  7. #7
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I have a sample of PA's sandalwood key accord and I agree with the others; it just doesn't do it for me. I am comparing to some real Mysore sandalwood oil I have. Javanol by itself however, is much closer IMO...and I love the way it smells.

  8. #8

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Quote Originally Posted by itunu View Post
    I am looking to buy realistic rose, jasmine and sandalwood replacers from PA and also real rose absolute from hermitage oils.

    Perfumer's apprentice has a rose key accord and rose fragrance oil. (I heard that they rose key accord wasn't great).

    PA also have arabian sandalwood fragrance oil and sandalwood key accord and

    Jasmine key accord and jasmin fragrance oil.

    Can anyone advise which ones above are realistic/natural as poss or where I can buy ones which are.

    I am also looking at buy a real rose absolute from hermitage oils and can't decide between (A) rose absolute morroco or (b) rose absolute bulgarian? Any advice on what they smell like? (If it helps, I like the smell of jurlique's rosewater and jo malone's red rose so am trying to buy something similar to those.)

    Thanks
    Others have already commented on the recreations, you have asked about but you don't yet have an answer on the choice between the naturals:

    Buy rose otto from Bulgaria and rose absolute from Morocco - what you need to know is that in Bulgaria the otto is made from the best flowers, with the lesser ones being turned into absolute, while in Morocco it is the other way round.

    Neither will smell like fresh flowers of any variety of rose - for that you need a good rose recreation and I would recommend something like Dorinia SA E, Rose Givco 217 or Wardia rather than the rose accords you have mentioned.

    For a good sandalwood I use a combination of Vanuatu Sandalwood with Ebanol, Javanol and Santaliff.

    I hope that helps
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  9. #9

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Hi Chris, thanks so much for your advice. Do you know which suppliers sell - Dorinia SA E, Rose Givco 217 or Wardia ?? PA and Hekserij don't seem to sell them
    thanks again

  10. #10

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    They are all three difficult to get hold of in small amounts - what part of the world are you in? I can help with small amounts of Dorinia SA E or if you are in the US and can handle a minimum purchase of 1Kg Vigon sell Dorian SA, which is slightly inferior but still good.

    I'm planning to purchase 5Kg of Rose Givco 217 in the next few months so may be able to help with that too in due course. I believe another small perfumer in the US has some Wardia for sale too and I could put you in touch if you send your email.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  11. #11

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Hi Chris, I live in London, UK but am frequently in the US. I plan to use PA when I'm in the US. I managed to find hexapus's international price list and it does have dorinia SA E on it. Thanks for your offers - really appreciated.

    I wonder if there's such a thing as a jasmine replacement too?

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm very interested in the sampaquita by givaudan that Edshepp mentions. Unfortunately PA are out of stock. Any thoughts on where I could buy it in europe or the US?

    I also saw on goodscentsco that Firmenich do jasmine 231 which is supposed to be good - not sure where to get this one either.

    I also read another good one is perfumersworld http://www.perfumersworld.com/prod_s...?code_no=Jn166 - but I'd rather not buy from them just for one item and it will have to be shipped overseas.
    Last edited by itunu; 11th December 2012 at 10:34 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    I'm afraid I don't know of a source for any of those Jasmine replacers that will sell you less than 1Kg at a time. At the moment I don't have any in stock myself either so can't help on those, though at some point I do plan on getting the Sampaquita Givco and when I do I'll happily sell some on, that will be some months away however.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Quote Originally Posted by itunu View Post
    I am also looking at buy a real rose absolute from hermitage oils and can't decide between (A) rose absolute morroco or (b) rose absolute bulgarian? Any advice on what they smell like? (If it helps, I like the smell of jurlique's rosewater and jo malone's red rose so am trying to buy something similar to those.)

    Thanks
    I just got my Rose Bulgarian absolute from Hermitage. I can only compare it to a bulgarian rose otto I also have and a distilled rosewater I have which I am certain is rosa centifolia going by the origin of it. The rose absolute has a cruder character than the rose otto, the otto is all sweet honey notes and very clean smelling. The absolute has an undertone thats quite sharp and smells alternatively like varnish and dried rose petals. Both the absolute and otto smell sweet and honeylike and not really very floral at all. Certainly nothing like any rose FO I've ever smelt. The rosewater I have is greener, more dewy and fresh flower smelling. Its my favourite rose scent. It doesn't have the rounded body of the Bulgarian but it smells truer to rose as a concept. I believe most synthetic rose fragrances I've smelt are more like the centifolia than the damascena rose. Hope that helps.

  14. #14

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    The PA scents are a version of the type they are representing. There really isn't just ONE type of scent, true to something else, there is always an interpretation/interpolation... That's what being a perfumer is all about, knowing and using the right element appropriate to the vision cast. Rose, Jasmine and Sandalwood all have different aspects and shades which can be emphasized or eliminated. PA's Key accords are formulated to do just that, emphasize / eliminate / interpret / interpolate a portion of the "concept", of the idea, of the original...

    Real Perfumery is an art, and is about the command and control, the Shock and Awe, the deftly turning of a phrase into a composition occupying time and space, whilst creating incomparable beauty and grace for all to enjoy and partake, and to also share that state of being and wonderment.

    This command of your tools comes after you learn, know, and assess all available options and paths to create the direction you wish to walk down. You may take a few wrong turns along the way, but you may in the end gift the world with extraordinary beauty.

  15. #15

    Default Re: PA's rose, jasmine, sandalwood key accords - realistic/natural? Hermitage oils - rose

    Chris - the Sampaquita Givco sounds amazing - do let me know when you order it. I'm in love with serge lutens a la nuit if it smells anything like that. It's such an addictive scent.

    ClaraAus - thanks for your advice re hermitage oils rose - really interesting to know the differences between the roses.

    Paul - I'm realising more and more that as you say there really isn't just one type of scent, that it's so complex and an art form. Here's hoping that I will eventually be able to produce something that some people will appreciate.

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