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  1. #1

    Default 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    I've done loads and loads of research and have come up with a list of aroma chemicals to buy. Thing is my list keeps getting longer and longer the more I research and I don't know where to stop. It's getting out of control. Would be great to have some feedback on chemicals I can delete from my list or also whether I'm missing anything vital.

    Also, am unsure about the animal chems to buy - don't really want to buy all of them - do I really need indole, civet and castoreum or can I make do with just one?.

    Also, do I need to buy a green leaf alcohol too or will what I have already suffice?

    ESSENTIAL OILS I ALREADY HAVE:-
    Benzoin
    Carrot ,
    Cedarwood –
    Clary-sage –
    Coriander
    Amyris
    Frankincense
    Geranium –
    Ginger -
    Grapefruit – ,
    Lavender
    Lemon –
    Lemongrass -
    Mandarin
    Marjoram
    Nutmeg
    Oakmoss ,
    Orange oil and orange oil 5 fold
    Palma Rosa ,
    Patchouli
    Peppermint
    Petitgrain
    Rosemary
    Rosewood (bois de rose)
    Tea tree
    Vanilla
    Vetiver –
    Basil, sweet
    Ylang-ylang
    Bergamot

    LIST TO BUY FROM HERMITAGE OILS – essential oils:-
    Rose absolute – not sure which one
    Jasmine absolute?? – is this necessary or can I just use the aroma chems I have?
    clove,
    black pepper,

    LIST TO BUY FROM Hexapus/Hekserij – 10ml unless specified:-
    Aldehyde C10 –
    C-11 undecylenic/enic
    Amyl salicylate
    50ml Benzyl salicylate
    Beta Ionone
    Methyl Ionone
    Ionone alpha
    Citronellol
    50ml Coumarin
    Dihydromyrcenol –
    Floralozone -
    Geraniol
    50ml Hedione
    Helional
    50ml Iso E Super
    Dihydrojasmone.
    Lilial
    Lyral – I heard this can be allergenic – is it necessary to buy given what I am proposing on this list?
    50ml Linalool
    Linalyl acetate
    50ml Phenylethyl alcohol
    Terpineol alpha
    Vanillin or Ethyl vanillin
    Labdanum absolute,
    Galbanum
    Veramoss
    cedryl methyl ether (“cedramber”)
    sandalmysore core - I will be pairing this up with Javanol - what % of each would u recommend?
    Galaxolide

    LIST TO BUY FROM PERFUMERS APPRENTICE
    Calone –
    javanol
    Heliotropin replacer
    Velvione
    Grisalva

    ANIMAL FROM PA:- do I need to buy all 4 of these - I'd rather just buy 1 or 2 - pls advise:-
    Auratouch?? – what % is usual to use? (I already have in my list galaxolide and velvione)
    Civet?? -
    Indolene 50?? - if i buy how much % is usual in a formula?
    Castoreum – is this essential or can I make do with the ones above instead?

    Any help to save me spending loads of money would be great,

    thanks
    Last edited by itunu; 10th December 2012 at 08:47 PM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    I'll try to answer your specific questions when I've some more time, but meanwhile have a look at my blog post on suggested starting materials for my recommendations on where to start. I think you are missing one or two essentials (Exaltolide for example) and I wouldn't buy so much coumarin, given the IFRA restrictions on its use and how little of most things you are buying. Also you don't have enough aroma-chemicals in your list to replace jasmine absolute.

    You might also skip some of the aldehydes and reserve those for a later order as they are very difficult to use when you are starting out.

    Hope that helps.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  3. #3

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Thanks so much Chris - I have deleted C10 from my list and adjusted the quantity of coumarin. I will add exaltolide.

    I read your blog quite a few times when I did my research - I found it very helpful - thanks also for that.

    Interested to know what I should add to my list to replace jasmine absolute.

    Thanks for your advice on my other post too - I found that Hexapus did sell dorinia SA E after all.

  4. #4

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    No problem. To be honest I wouldn't try to replace jasmine absolute with aroma-chemicals at all - if you need to replace it for cost reasons go for a top quality accord from one of the big makers - but with jasmine absolute a little goes a very long way and it's very complex. Oh and another thought on that: if you like jasmine fragrances a lot it's worth getting jasmine sambac absolute too because the IFRA restriction is much less severe for that variety. You'll want to use Hedione (or Hedione HC) as a booster for it, possibly also a little indole or civet.

    That reminds me, you asked about the animal ones: I would get all of them ad as many musks as you can afford too. I know it's expensive but I would also recommend an ambergris replacement as well such as ambrofix or ambroxan. It's subtle alone but the effect on a blend is great. You don't need much civet and unless you are planning a leather fragrance you probably don't need much castoreum either, though it isn't quite as powerful as civet. I use synthetic recreations for both most of the time, natural castoreum only for bespoke commissions that call for it.

    Lyral is a strong allergenic for some people, but even tiny amounts have a big effect in floral blend, giving great longevity. Personally I think it's worth having but if you were thinking of it only for Muguet fragrances then the others you have will cover that well enough.

    For a first order I would get vanillin in preference to ethyl vanillin because it's easier to get the dose right.

    Santaliff = sandalmysore core 80% and javanol 20% is a good starting ratio, but I think you get a better effect by including Ebanol proportions would be 50% Ebanol to 35% Sataliff to 15% Javanol in that case - better still blend in some natural sandalwood, though that is getting harder and harder to source now.

    Indolene you'll need only very small amounts - traces to 0.5%

    Galaxolide is good because it's cheap and effective, but it also has biodegradability problems so when you can I'd replace it with Romandolide.

    Consider adding Tonalid and Ethylene brassylate too - both can be used to extend your more expensive musks such as velvione.

    Finally I find cis3-Hexenol very useful so I'd certainly add that too, but you can always reserve some for a later order if it is all getting a bit too expensive. Believe me I do know that feeling!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  5. #5

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Hi Chris, thanks so much again for your help - really appreciated.

    I will add ebanol to my list, some more musks, cis 3 hexenol and also the ambroxan (I do have grisalva on my list but presumably i need another ambergris too).

    and also http://www.olfactik.com/index.php?ro...product_id=226

    One last question - what % in a blend would you recommend for auratouch?

    Thanks again.

  6. #6

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Sorry to bring things down, but many of the items on your list are or contain allergens. I wouldn't worry about such things. Lyral and Lilial are regarded as allergens, as are Bourgeonal and Hyrdoxycitronellal. If you want to try a non allergenic Muguet chemical, try Cyclomyral.

    Javanol is a very strong material and a little goes a very long way. A 1.0% solution should be easier to use.

  7. #7

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Auratouch is a pre-blended collection of different musks and as such you need as much of it as you need musk . . . how much that is depends on the blend you're creating. Start at around 5% of the concentrate and see if you want to adjust up or down from there.

    Ambroxan and Grisalva are different and in my view ambroxan (or ambrofix, which is very similar and mostly the same chemical) is more versatile. See how you find them though - you may not agree and prefer Grisalva - there isn't a wrong answer.

    I've not tried the Olfactik Jasmine so can't comment on it, but I've had no quality problems with things I have tried from them.

    David is right that most people are unaffected by the long list of allergens, but Lyral is the one that seems to trigger problems in most of the people that are affected by such things. Florhydral is another alternative that doesn't have IFRA restrictions but then it doesn't have the magic that Lyral has either. Choices, choices!
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    David - thanks for your advice.

    Chris - thanks again -I can't thank you enough.

    My list just keeps getting longer - in addition to ebanol, more musks, cis 3 hexenol, ambroxan I also added florhydral.

    Is there anything I could delete from my shopping list ?

  9. #9

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Not sure about the usefulness of Grapefruit Oil nor Palmarosa. If you have good Geraniol you can use that instead of Palmarosa. Rosewood oil is becoming very scarce, as the tree is a protected species. Use Ho Wood oils instead. It will be much cheaper, and is very similar in smell. Mind you if you have good linalol it may not be necessary to have the Oil at all.

    The list will get longer; there are over 5,000 raw materials used by Pefumers. Mind you, it isn't mandatory to use them all!

  10. #10

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    I've just been through your list looking for things to drop and found only a couple (assuming that you've dropped the two aldehydes, C10 and C11, already):
    Indolene 50 is quite difficult to use effectively so you could leave that for a later order and I don't find I use citronellol alone very often so I'd skip that too.

    While I was looking I noticed that you are listing Clove (which is a good thing to have) but you don't mention which one: if you are buying just one I'd get Clove Bud rather than Leaf - a cheaper alternative to consider later would be pure Eugenol, but for now I'd stick with Clove Bud oil.

    Also you might consider getting Pink Pepper (known in perfumery by the species name Schinus molle) - it is a bit brighter and less obviously peppery than black pepper and as a result more versatile - I use it often to give a bit of a lift to top notes and add interest to the middle. There is no need to have both at this stage and Hermitage stock a really nice pink pepper so you could just swap one for the other on your order.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  11. #11

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    David - I see you are in north london - I'm also in north london - belsize park/swiss cottage area. Maybe we can meetup sometime? Thanks so much for your suggestions - I already have the grapefruit, palmarosa and bois de rose but it's interesting to know in future I can sub it for Ho Wood.

    Chris - thanks again for your advice - I will delete indolene 50 and buy clove bud rather than the leaf version as you suggested. I'll swap black pepper for pink pepper - interesting to read about pink pepper and that it's trendy to use in perfumes nowadays. Presumably it's a middle note?

  12. #12

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    I am a big fan of cosmone and velvione as far as musks go but of cource galaxolide and exaltolide are of paramount importance.
    All olfactik bases are fabulous (i'd suggest their jasmine accord as a good replacer for sampaquita) except for sandalwood, which is very strong and fine but not very sandalwood-like. Also, I wouldn't go crazy about Javanol, it is very strong and harsh but in traces can work in a formula. Real sandalwood and jasmine absolute are important for decoration in the end only when you have a valid recipe. I'd keep one aldehyde (c11 undecylenic), benzyl acetate and citronellol but I'd drop floralozone (I detest it). Get calone instead.
    "I have the sun in my pocket"
    http://www.ionportraits.gr
    http://www.facebook.com/ion.portraits

  13. #13

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    Pink Pepper is more of a Top note than Middle and is a wonderful oil to use. I have never seen the point of using Grapefruit Oil, maybe I have been unlucky with the quality we were given to use. A judicious use of thiolimonene, and Neutkatone with Orange Oil produced a better Grapefruit than the supposed natural Oil were were shown.

    Calone is a nicer smell than Floralozone, but is much, much more expensive. Harder to use too (I think) as it is so strong.

    itunu, I do live in North London, close to Alexander Palace; a bit of a way from you I think. Meeting people is always (well nearly always) good.

  14. #14

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    ION thanks so much. I have added benzyl acetate, olfactik's jasmin base as you suggested and dropped floralozone

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thanks David for your advice. Maybe we can get a group of us to meet if you know of any other perfumer's in or near London. Chris - next time you're down in London perhaps we can all get together?

  15. #15

    Default

    Lyral replace?

    Can use MAYOL, no allergen problems like hidroxucitronellal , Lyral , Lilial.

  16. #16

    Default Re: 1st time buying aroma chemical - pls comment on my shopping list

    I *KNOW* that Chris would LOVE to meet and greet and chat over smelly stuff. Chris and I do it by Skype occasionally, across the pond and the North American Continent, We're 8 hours apart. I'm really waiting on Mark From Australia to get a webcam, so that we can chat, because we are actually only 5.5 hours apart. HINT HINT HINT

    Oh, and when I talk to Chris, I plug in my 25 foot USB extension cable from my computer to my Perfumarium, which already has a computer monitor cable stretched there, so I sit at my Perfume Desk and talk and watch Chris from there, and by camera and microphone, Chris gets to see my space and reach for bottles when we are chatting about things... I think he really enjoys it...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

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