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Thread: Cigar base note

  1. #1

    Default Cigar base note

    Hi

    I have come across quite a few fragrances that have a distinctive cigar base note to them, Can anyone tell me what this is? I have tried tobacco absolute with ethyl maltol but its just not the same.

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    There are so many to pick from:

    1. (E,E/E,Z)-tobacco cyclohexenone aka Tabanon
    2. tobacco nonene aka Atrinon
    3. tobacco butenal aka Veltonal
    4. Tabacenide
    5. Tobacarol


    Have Fun!

    Paul Kiler



    Last edited by socalwoman; 19th January 2013 at 08:42 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    There are so many to pick from:

    1. (E,E/E,Z)-tobacco cyclohexenone aka Tabanon
    2. tobacco nonene aka Atrinon
    3. tobacco butenal aka Veltonal
    4. Tabacenide
    5. Tobacarol
    Do you know where we can get small quantities of any of these? I think that the Perfumer's Apprentice offers one, either Tabanon or Tabacarol (as of somewhat recently, if I'm right), but it's bombastically expensive! I'm wondering if it, as a molecue, has enough facets to be cost-effective.

    Do you have personal experiences with those you mentioned? I'd love to hear about synthetic/isolated tobacco notes or how to build a good tobacco accord. I too have used tobacco absoulte, and find it very beautiful, but I'd like to know what to add to it to make it smell more like heavily-flavored pipe tobacco ( la Tobacco Vanille by Tom Ford or the Tabacco--can't remember who makes it, but I think it's an Italian company).

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    PA has her own Tobacco key accord as well as those two mentioned... sorry, forgot that one last time. Yup, Tabanon is expensive, and very performant, so a little dab'll do ya. Tabanon had been on my list for years, and I was so jazzed when she started selling it, I almost sprung for 100g... But I'd never smelled it, so bought 1/2 oz instead. If you want it, I'd jump on a purchase of it for yourself...

    In my odor analysis of commonly available pipe tobacco smoking blends, I smell a whole bunch of Vanillin, so between your desire to emulate Tom Ford's T.V., and your known experiences, seems like you should you pump in the vanillin. Really, *they* put a whole slew of things into the flavorings of common tobacco... It's hard to pick out what else, since there are so many directions you could go with that...

    F&F sales figures state that Vanillin/Ethyl Vanillin are *THE* most used flavor and fragrance elements in the USA, and it is ubiquitous. Personally, I really can't stand vanilla fragrances consequently, and therefore endeavor with a passion to avoid the usage of Vanillin, and have actually never ever even used any ethyl vanillin.

    Small amounts of the others I haven't been looking for yet, but am happy with the four that I have access to... (incl Tobacco Abs and Tobacco Key Accord...)

    As it happens, I was working on a "Cigar Box Blend" last night. I've been working on a Spanish Cedar Accord for several months/year, since I have completely failed for the past seven years to find a Spanish Cedar EO, and have endeavoured to make a reconstruction instead...

    Here's to having FUN!

    Paul Kiler
    Last edited by socalwoman; 19th January 2013 at 08:42 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    A really good tobacco scent is something I definitely want to make soon. Something like Fumerie Turque but deeper and more animalic.

    I tried Tabanon from the Perfumer's Apprentice recently - very strong stuff so I think the cost isn't too prohibitive. It does smell kind of dry cigarette-like, but it also actually smells a bit like curry powder. I hadn't noticed that until someone pointed it out to me. The tobacco key accord from them wasn't really to my liking. I found it a bit dry and... minty? Clove-like maybe?

    Don't forget tonka either (or just coumarin). Other things that might help are beeswax absolute, Vanilla tincture (Bourbon probably) and castoreum. Maybe orris oil?

    Also, this list of cigarette additives might give some ideas. It includes ambergris tincture, civet, costus root...
    Last edited by Renegade; 17th December 2012 at 04:18 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    Many thanks

    plenty to look out for and try

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    i found that hay absolute from Hermitage in England smells quite a lot like tobacco.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    I may just give the Tabanon a try, when I feel like splurging. And tinker with a mix of tabac absolute and ethyl vanillin too.

    I've tried The Perfumer's Apprentice Tobacco Key Accord, but it didn't go in the direction that I wanted. Was there a lot of Kephalis in it? I always think of Kephalis when I think of it (I like Kephalis, but it smells more like peat soil or wood to me than tobacco. I understand the tobacco nuance, though). Maybe I ordered them at the same time, when I was very into a 'wood notes' phase that I can't believe everyone around me tolerated.

    I love love love hay absolute, honey/beeswax absolute and tonka, but cost becomes a factor with those. I would love to try to tackle making a really good tonka/hay/coumarinic scent (all attempts thus far have failed), but I would be afriad of overwhelming the natural material with some of the things I might add in to make it perform better, like musks.

    I do love me the tonka notes, however. I love coumarin, but for me, it seems to go straight to the back of any blend for me. I've smelled and played around with bicyclononalactone, methyl laitone, dimethyl hydroquinone, acetanisole, etc. but I can't get a good tonka accord right. I love the smell of dihydrocoumarin at 10%--is its reputation as a strong sensitizer justified? What are some other tonka notes that can give that bright, sunny, warm, golden smell that some hay-tonka accords have? (I'm thinking of the drydown of Demeter's Grass, after what I assume is the cis-3-hexanol flies away, and CB I Hate Perume's Hay oil.) Or does anyone know of a very good New Mown Hay base (especially if it's not extremely floral)?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    Amyl Salicylate, Octahydro Coumarin, and Gamma Hexalactone, could all be shading for your accord...
    Possibly IsoAmyl Salicylate, but there is a diff between the two. I just bought 5 kilos of Amyl Salicylate, because it's not available in small qty's... if you need some. Ed, Is there some reason that you don't join the Yahoo Perfumemaking Group?

    Aldo Ed, You should't be afraid of the cost of these naturals, because they reinforce the chem's and round them out. Just use them in small qty in relation to your chems for a cost effective balancing augmentation

    For myself, the Tobacco Abs is really nice, so I use it and love it.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Cigar base note

    Thanks! I've smelled isoamyl salicylate, I'm sure, but I don't think I've smelled the amyl. I don't think I've ever met a salicylate I didn't like, though. I'm actually in the yahoo group, but it gets sent to my other mail, so I don't read it often. I think I'll switch it to my more regular email today.

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