Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 22 of 22
  1. #1

    Default Living Jasmine Accord

    This accord is based off of the GC/MS analysis of the Sacred Jasmine Sambac Absolute offered by Hermitage Oils. This accord literally smells like a Jasmine flower in full blossom. I did the math and made the analysis equal to 100%. Enjoy!

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/sacred-...ambac-absolute

    Hey Chris, knowing that you raved over this, have you tried blending the analysis?

    Cis 3 Hexanol- 0.19%
    Hexenyl Cis 3 Acetate- 0.32%
    Benzyl Alcohol- 4.74%
    Methyl Benzoate- 0.42%
    Laevo(!) Linalool- 17.40% (Purchase from TGSC)
    Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol- 0.13%
    Linalool (Dextro if you can source it, but regular will work also)- 0.37%
    Benzyl Acetate- 64.02%
    Menthol Crystals- 0.22%
    Linalyl Acetate- 0.90%
    Benzyl Propionate- 0.70%
    Indole- 1.64%
    Methyl Anthranilate- 3.37%
    Hedione- 0.98%
    Hexyl Cinnamic Aldehyde- 0.96%
    Benzyl Benzoate- 3.64%

    If you absolutely cannot obtain Laevo Linalool, Feel free to replace Laevo with the racemic mix (regular) Linalool. It will not be as strong though. Laevo Linalool has an odor threshold that is 10 times lower than Dextro Linalool and the ratio of each isomer in regular Linalool is unknown. Last point, using Laevo Linalool will give you a more true to life Jasmine.
    Last edited by BAGreat; 7th June 2014 at 06:07 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Thanks!

  3. #3

  4. #4

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Interesting! I'm on the fence about making it, as I am allergic to Jasmine(s)... hmmm...

    PK
    Last edited by pkiler; 11th June 2014 at 06:16 AM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  5. #5

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Do it! Do it! Do it! *cheers*, you will enjoy it Paul. Take my word for it. Just please keep it away from your skin. I believe you have contact dermatitis from Benzyl Acetate, Benzoate, Salicylate etc. Are you allergic to Tuberose also? Also big point to mention, this accord is mainly a top to mid note with a mothball drydown due to the indole. You can leave the Indole out if you want a clean Jasmine top note to brighten up your white flower EO's and Absolutes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Is there a different indole with a better drydown, something more fecal? Perhaps Chris could comment on the drydown note of the sambac absolute? I'll wager it's not mothball.

    Thank you so much! That is informative.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    Is there a different indole with a better drydown, something more fecal? Perhaps Chris could comment on the drydown note of the sambac absolute? I'll wager it's not mothball.

    Thank you so much! That is informative.
    Yes this is the problem with recreations, the indole never ever smells fecal or animal bad tooth etc. It just smells of mothballs when you add indole as an isolate. No one knows why and it is quite annoying because it sticks out like a sore thumb in blends. You can tell it is a recreation if it smells of mothballs. I recommended leaving it out because you cannot tell it is a recreation that way. If anyone has an indole replacement please comment.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    If you have problems getting laevo Linalol, try using Ho Oil which is pretty much the same thing. The main problem with reconstructing anything with a lot of Indole in it, is the Indole. Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.

    By the way, pure Benzyl Acetate is not regarded as an allergen (I don't think), but the Benzyl Alcohol always present, is.

    BA, have you made this accord yourself?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    If anyone has an indole replacement please comment.
    After buying a kilo of Indolarome, this certainly doesn't have the mothball odor of regular Indole...
    I'm liking the Indolarome...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  10. #10
    Basenotes Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Brighton
    Posts
    64

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.
    Or, use the real thing viz Natural Indole https://www.aftelier.com/indole-2-percent.html (I can't find anyone else doing it) is said to have "none of that mothball feel ... instead, it was very toasted and earthy with a waxy, fleshy quality that was highly appealing and yet also oddly off-putting."
    http://www.nathanbranch.com/2012/04/...kson-ep-5.html

  11. #11

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    If you have problems getting laevo Linalol, try using Ho Oil which is pretty much the same thing. The main problem with reconstructing anything with a lot of Indole in it, is the Indole. Commercially produced Indole is never as clean and pure (strange descriptors, I know) as the stuff that a plant produces. There are always "off" notes. Try using less.

    By the way, pure Benzyl Acetate is not regarded as an allergen (I don't think), but the Benzyl Alcohol always present, is.

    BA, have you made this accord yourself?
    Yes and it is very delicate and pretty. But again as you said, the indole is a problem. The mothball note is ever present when smelling the accord up close. It smells nearly Identical to Jasmine in the air when comparing it to Jasmine blossoms. One might even mistake it as the real thing if you get whiffs of it unknowingly in the air. The accord has very good diffusion from the blotter, but longevity is fleeting on skin (4 hours). Also a major point I need to mention is it is very thin. I needs some Ylang Ylang or Jasmine absolute, if affordable, in a blend to fatten it up.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    After buying a kilo of Indolarome, this certainly doesn't have the mothball odor of regular Indole...
    I'm liking the Indolarome...

    PK
    Just that it doesn't occur in Jasmin.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    So use the amount of regular indole that doesn't mothball, which is the closest you can get to nature anyway. Then make up the difference with indolarome, puchased from Paul.

    Another idea is to GC-MS different jasmine absoutes for the highest indole content, and use that one as your natural, since that is the aspect which is hardest to recreate synthetically.

    Another idea is to add skatole to the indole in trace amounts, or civettone, or civet, or an ambergris note. Here, you are looking at it as an "indole accord."

    Or pull an A. Crowley trick, and add some of your own organic indole. Ha ha. If you don't get it, I'm not going to explain it.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 7th June 2014 at 10:46 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    I have prepared 100 grams of this accord using standard Linalool. I am selling it for $45 shipped via priority mail.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Hi,
    PerfumersWorld supply linalool( linalool with citrus and woody notes ) and linalool synthetic ( pure linalool smell ) and they have also Ho oil ( but i afraid the camphor note will kill the accord ). Can you suggest me what linalool source should i choose ?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    When I checked the link nemenator posted, Mandy Aftel was no longer offering her natural indole, but is offering what appears to be most likely laevo-linalool, as it's extracted from ho wood. I'll probably order some. That's the only source I was able to find at the moment.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Well, a Jasmine sambac absolute GC/MS with Hedione, cinnamic aldehyde, menthol, and linalyl acetate, and everything reported being a readily-available inexpensive ingredient, which is unusual. It also has no cis-3-benzyl benzoate. Still further there's no methyl jasmone, jasmone, farnesene, geranyllinallol, germacra-1-dien-4-ol, or phytol, though with these last few often some will not be seen in a given GC/MS.

    In other words, expected signature elements of jasmine sambac are not there, and elements showing synthetic origin are there, at least to my understanding which is fallible. Please take it as personal thought only.

    I would never question the olfactory quality of Hermitage's products nor their integrity in believing products are what they say they are and in having diligently pursued appropriate documentation and evidence from their suppliers, so having good basis for their belief. That is not my point, if there is an issue here I have every confidence it is not with them. And to say the least I applaud them for providing the GC/MS. But personally I don't feel the details of it let me take this GC/MS as being representative of jasmin sambac absolute. I would be more than willing to buy it though if the price were right, as I trust that even if it's a a base, it's an excellent one. I intend this only as suggestion to consider the GC/MS carefully before assuming it to refer accurately to the composition of natural product jasmine sambac.

    I would more than welcome correction if any of what I suggest should not be there in fact can, or what I suggest should be there but isn't, can in fact not be.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 16th August 2014 at 02:05 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    I tried making this accord by volume, instead of weight ( I know this is not correct)...I found that the benzyl acetate was still extremely overpowering and harsh. The accord was not soft/floral at all...Did you find much better results when doing it by weight? I always seem to run into trouble regarding my abilty to blend benzyl acetate into accords How long did you let your accord age/blend? or did it smell like real jasmine as soon as you were done building this?

    Thanks!

  19. #19

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    I'd say try it with half the Benzyl acetate and see what you like...?


    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  20. #20

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    I expect it would move it to a fruitier jasmine direction, but a possibility to try would be substituting some of the benzyl acetate with benzyl propionate. While usually GC/MS's don't show benzyl propionate in jasmine, apparently at least one has done so ( https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...73231344,d.b2U ) finding benzyl propionate at about 9.7% and benzyl acetate at about 26.1%.

    Although of course there's no stated evidence that the GC/MS of the above scientific article was of authentic essential oil: it was simply a particular commercial product.

    I don't think aging or lack of will be the problem here.

    It's also already in the above base but at a lower percentage (propanoate is same as propionate.)

    Also another idea you can look at is that personally (no information or idea on whether many or any others think or do the same) I often prefer to totally omit certain items from bases, as I'd rather adjust them individually as part of the entire formula. An example would be methyl salicylate. I might build the base with it, and do some work with the base having it, but at some point I may also have a version without the methyl salicylate, and add that ingredient only relative to the entire formula. With your feelings on benzyl acetate, you might try the same. Perhaps adding it in as a last or late step will work better for you.

    EDIT: As another thought, perhaps there are different grades of benzyl acetate available. For example, if a given material had a significant amount of unreacted acetic anhydride, it would certainly be sharp. (If synthesized that way: I don't know that it is commercially.) Coincidentally Brechbill's book was brought up recently: he does give different odor descriptions to different grades. I'd guess this is unlikely if you obtained it from a widely used aromachemicals source, but as there was no mention, maybe it's a possibility.
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 17th August 2014 at 07:38 AM.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Here's also a sort of analogue to Benzyl Acetate, is the acetone, Benzyl Acetone, it's not as shrill, but still the same odor profile, or darn close...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  22. #22

    Default Re: Living Jasmine Accord

    Thanks for all your help. Im using benzyl acetate sourced from the perfumers apprentice, so I would imagine grade should not be an issue. Ive had 3 separate bottles from them, all at different time periods and they all smell the same to me.

    What Im finding a little puzzling is the ability for the jasmine flower to synthesize its own oil and release it into the air almost as one seamless note...with little differential between top middle and base notes...(to my untrained nose)

    However, when I build an accord of my own, it seems as if the benzyl acetate is jumping off first, leaving the softer base notes behind.

    Bill, as you suggested, I think I will create a base that omits the benzyl acetate, and only use it when I find it useful in the full formula.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2nd March 2013, 04:52 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1st March 2013, 10:07 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1st March 2013, 10:05 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •