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Thread: Mineral Notes?

  1. #31

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Yep, i'm in and totally happy with an amount of 10 ml @ 0,01%
    Thanx guys!

  2. #32

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nasenmann View Post
    I'm recapitulating:

    Spot 1: Nasenmann
    Spot 2: Chris Bartlett
    Spot 3: Paul Kiler
    Spot 4: Nova Wright
    Spot 5: Javiero
    Spot 6: David Ruskin (correct ?)
    Spot 7: jsparla
    Spot 8: wooznib
    Spot 9: (-)
    Spot 10: (-)
    Sorry, but no. I no longer practice Perfumery and have no desire to receive any raw materials.

  3. #33

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    i know this is a perfume and not an ingredient, but Quartz by Molyneaux is quite mineral...you should try it!

  4. #34

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Sorry, but no. I no longer practice Perfumery and have no desire to receive any raw materials.
    Ah ok, I edited you out of the list.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javiero View Post
    About price, we will have to add VAT if no one in the US is available to host the buy. In this case, perhaps the right host would be the one among us that lives in the lowest rate VAT country.
    Just on the question of where the buy is best hosted, there are some other factors to consider besides the VAT rate:
    1) The host will have to have an existing SAFC account since they are not easy or quick to get (it took me 6 months and a telephone interview to demonstrate I knew what I was doing before they granted mine . . .)

    2) The price isn't necessarily the same in each country - currently they are quoting 398.50 for 10mg plus UK VAT and delivery charge = 496.2 - whether that's better than, for example, the Spanish option with a slightly higher VAT rate will depend on the /Euro exchange rate and whether SAFC charge for delivery in Spain.

    3) There will be losses - I do this sort of thing all the time and you never get quite the full amount when you split something down: with an expensive material like this, great care will obviously be needed to minimise such losses, but nevertheless everyone should expect this.

    4) There are other costs associated with this - bottles & labels of course but the main one is shipping to all the other destinations. Assuming everyone pays the host by PayPal there will also be their fees and currency exchange charges to add, so everyone should expect to pay quite a lot more than 1/10th of the price of the material.

    5) The material requires refrigerated storage and transport. This is significant especially for those destinations outside the Northern Hemisphere were winter will conveniently keep it below 8 degrees Centigrade for us while it's in transit, but also important for the host: we don't want to find the material has evaporated or oxidised away because the vial was left in a warm lab . . .

    6) Once in ethanol the material is technically not able to be sent in the ordinary post because of IATA regulations - I suggest that 10ml of ethanol is such as small amount that this can be ignored in practice - however policies for checking are different between countries so that might be significant in some cases.

    7) Anything sent from outside the EU to an EU country will attract VAT on import (possibly other forms of Duty as well - in the UK no other duty is charged on perfumery materials, but that may not be true everywhere). The only exception (in the UK anyway) is personal gifts under 40 in value and commercial items under 18 in value. You can obviously declare a lower value on the package to avoid that, but that's risky because a) it's fraud and b) if the item is lost or damaged in transit you'll only have a claim for the declared amount.

    Everyone should be clear these international joint-buys are a great idea but there are a lot of factors to consider.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  6. #36

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    -delete-
    Last edited by Nasenmann; 27th January 2013 at 11:26 PM.

  7. #37

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Sorry, SAFC is shorthand for Sigma-Aldrich Fine Chemicals - the company whose prices we are comparing - they won't take an order from you unless you have an account with them and I know there are plenty of very well qualified perfumers here who don't have any such account and in some cases not for want of trying. Their policies seem to vary somewhat between countries (and possibly between States in the US as well) but the key point is it's not an assumption you can make and in addition some accounts are restricted as to the materials they will supply - I've not checked whether I can order Geosmin on mine yet - and some materials have additional regulatory restrictions too: SAFC have a whole department dedicated to ensuring they comply with all the varying restrictions and licensing requirements of the countries they trade in.

    I'm not, btw, trying to argue that I should host this buy - frankly I'd just as soon not - but I do want everyone to go into it with their eyes open, especially those who've not participated in a group buy before.

    Also I may be wrong but I thought VAT in Spain was 21%? UK VAT is certainly 20% and I think it's 19% in both Germany and Netherlands and 19.6% in France. There is a handy list of tax rates on Wikipedia.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    -delete-
    Last edited by Nasenmann; 27th January 2013 at 11:39 PM.

  9. #39

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I'm sure it does vary by country but I know that Javiero, in Spain, had to go through a process to get his account and that Paul Kiler, in the US was denied one because they will only deliver to business premises there, not to a residential address. Here in the UK I had to go through the interview process because I use my residential address for my business and they wanted to be satisfied that I knew what I was doing and had dedicated space set aside for it before they agreed. No idea what the process might be like in other countries as I only know about those three experiences.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I guess it won't be much different over here then. Seems like the residential address is what complicated things for you guys. Unfortunately, I don't have a business license so I'm out of the race for the hosting.

  11. #41
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I've got a call in to Sigma to see if I can persuade them of my worthiness...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  12. #42

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Good luck Paul!

    Meanwhile I see that Christie has just indicated her interest on the Yahoo forum and willingness to host the split too - I believe she has a suitable business address so that might be an excellent solution.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  13. #43
    Basenotes Member Javiero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Off topic:

    Burocracy is one of the unexpected hurdles one finds on any kind of pursuit. I had never imagined that persuading companies to accept me as client would be a significant task in this particular field. After applying for the licence to use heliotropin, I received two visits to my office by a shiny badge-wielding police team, including their sampling of my (as of yet) amateurish compositions, a detailed review of my premises, and the need to buy a suitable safe box. The final step featured a new visit from a middle aged female inspector that interrogated me in depth about my knowledge of perfumery and took detailed pictures of my organ. Fortunately I passed the test and now I have my shiny licence. The next step is the actual ordering of the product, that has (so far) required me to send a signed declaration of my lawful intent to my supplier.

    Isnt everything too complicated nowadays?

  14. #44

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javiero View Post
    Off topic:

    Burocracy is one of the unexpected hurdles one finds on any kind of pursuit. I had never imagined that persuading companies to accept me as client would be a significant task in this particular field. After applying for the licence to use heliotropin, I received two visits to my office by a shiny badge-wielding police team, including their sampling of my (as of yet) amateurish compositions, a detailed review of my premises, and the need to buy a suitable safe box. The final step featured a new visit from a middle aged female inspector that interrogated me in depth about my knowledge of perfumery and took detailed pictures of my organ. Fortunately I passed the test and now I have my shiny licence. The next step is the actual ordering of the product, that has (so far) required me to send a signed declaration of my lawful intent to my supplier.

    Isnt everything too complicated nowadays?
    Wow!

  15. #45
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    OK< got OK'd for an account with Sigma Aldrich, YAY!but not OK'd for buying Geosmin... ahhh...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  16. #46

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    What's their reasoning for this restriction?

  17. #47

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    That's just ridiculous. Buying small amounts of heliotropin shouldn't be a big deal, don't you need fairly large quantities to make illicit drugs from it? Chemical synthesis comes with significant material loss, I doubt anything less than 1kg of heliotropin would yield enough drugs to make a profit.

  18. #48
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Geosmin isn't within their category box of Flavor and Fragrance materials. And it might be hazardous for shipping... don't know, but they did say they wouldn't ship hazardous items to me. But for F&F items, and if I have a biz license, can tell about/show my lab area in my home, no big deal then for them...Paul's Organ-Perfumarium 3-2012 big.jpg

    My space is small, and a LOT more cluttered/filled now than when than this pic was made, but this is what I'll show them...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  19. #49

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Javiero View Post
    Off topic:

    Burocracy is one of the unexpected hurdles one finds on any kind of pursuit. I had never imagined that persuading companies to accept me as client would be a significant task in this particular field. After applying for the licence to use heliotropin, I received two visits to my office by a shiny badge-wielding police team, including their sampling of my (as of yet) amateurish compositions, a detailed review of my premises, and the need to buy a suitable safe box. The final step featured a new visit from a middle aged female inspector that interrogated me in depth about my knowledge of perfumery and took detailed pictures of my organ. Fortunately I passed the test and now I have my shiny licence. The next step is the actual ordering of the product, that has (so far) required me to send a signed declaration of my lawful intent to my supplier.

    Isnt everything too complicated nowadays?
    In the UK they are slightly more pragmatic: you simply sign a declaration and pay HM Revenue & Customs a large fee to get your licence. Obviously this is on the basis that drug barons have no money
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    ~deleted duplicate post~
    Last edited by Chris Bartlett; 26th January 2013 at 07:05 AM.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  21. #51
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I have another friend who wishes to remain anonymous who would like one spot, you can ship this to me. This person may also be able to purchase, Thanks
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  22. #52
    Basenotes Member Javiero's Avatar
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Paul, I cant image how the shipping of 10 mg. of anything other than live virus or bacteria could be hazardous!

    Is your friend US based? If he/she is able to puchase from SA that would be great! Please keep us informed.

    Btw, I have just seen your web. Congratulations! Would you be able to ship samples of your perfumes to Europe, or would this be hazardous too?

  23. #53

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    -delete-
    Last edited by francodifranco; 28th January 2013 at 06:38 AM.

  24. #54

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I was also denied as business property is not and never will be classed commercial, they also use google earth to apraise your details.

  25. #55
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Hi Frank, Welcome to Basenotes, I think message #23 answers the question you have, best to read thru the whole thread though, to clear up any other Q's...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  26. #56

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    - I've been curious to try this ever since it was brought up in group discussion a couple of years ago...

    Something else I've been dying to try....Nootkatone (grapefruit/citrus note, sans the sulfurous nuance) only source, and exorbitant cost, has been a huge deterring factor, lol...

    There are so many wonderful raw materials out there, it would be impossible to obtain every single one, I'm sure it would take years, lol...

    Frank C.
    Last edited by francodifranco; 28th January 2013 at 06:40 AM.

  27. #57
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I got a nootkatone sample last year. A new process that is substantially cheaper to manufacture, but still extremely expensive...

    Here's a quote from the supplier:
    " we are in the process of reducing prices for 2012 due to increasing yields and scale. The new 20+ kg. price is $2400/kg."

    Ok, so getting back to "Mineral Notes" apart from Geosmin, What project are you working on Nasenmann?

    I've been working on a reconstruction of Djedi by Guerlain, and it's minerality aspect...
    I've gotten it analyzed by GC-MS to start the process. But the Analyzer is stumped by it, it's his first tim in 40 years of working that he's been stumped by an analysis...

    And then after hours of research online as well, and now on my 5th stab at a general approximation, (but without benefit of a good GC-MS to start from), I'm please with where it is going...

    It certainly has a cool minerality to it...
    Last edited by pkiler; 9th April 2013 at 12:59 AM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Hi,
    What was the result of trying to acquire Geosmin?
    I'm interested.
    TIA

  29. #59

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    I now have a sample of "Geosmin Neat", the IFF product, the name of which is misleading as it is in fact at 1% in DPG. Owing to the puppy situation I've not yet had time to evaluate it properly and in any case my supplier is unable to give me a price or even tell me with certainty that they can supply it . . .

    However I believe Javiero has bought some of the pure material from SAFC as is willing to sell some on after dilution.
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Im happy to quote: if you want free advice, thats what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  30. #60

    Default Re: Mineral Notes?

    Just bought some from Javiero via the Yahoo Niche Group thread.

    Your'e welcome to visit my formulation blog, with a dozen of perfume formulations and accords to share!

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