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  1. #1

    Default niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    lets be honest here...fragrance is a multimilion dollar industry...design and testing of fragrances is important so they dont turn out a "flop"..this is a buisness..they are not creating fragrances for fun..its peoples jobs...some of these small niche houses are under control of you favorite big designer houses...test something on a small scale run through niche houses and modify formulations to meet the desires of average consumers...try to obtain materials in bulk and obtain cheapest formulation as possible while still retaining almost the exact same scent as the origional design(when in large scale production)...sure when you do large scale runs and multiple batches there will be small noticable diferences in scents and trying to comply with fragrance chemical regulations only makes things harder...there areso many nice scents that are/were created out there that never came to be because of these regulations......
    14 sprays of DRAKKAR NOIR should do it

  2. #2
    Sound Scents
    drseid's Avatar
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    lets be honest here...fragrance is a multimilion dollar industry...design and testing of fragrances is important so they dont turn out a "flop"..this is a buisness..they are not creating fragrances for fun..its peoples jobs...some of these small niche houses are under control of you favorite big designer houses...
    Which ones? Do you have proof?
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4)
    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6)
    Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)
    9) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    9) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    9) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    9) X for Men (Clive Christian) - tie
    9) Patou pour Homme Privé (Jean Patou) - tie
    9) Oud Shamash (The Different Company) - tie

  3. #3
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    while this theory is not certain, it is plausible. i can't say niche companies are employed by designer companies, but i can say that designer companies are paying attention to the niche industry.

    niche companies will take the risks designer companies will not. and when niche companies come out with a big hit, the designers will try to copy it.

  4. #4
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    I'd love to see the proof also.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    If you're going to post something as fact you really should give specific examples.
    Currently wearing: Terre d'Hermès by Hermès

  6. #6

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    was just my tin foil hat theory
    14 sprays of DRAKKAR NOIR should do it

  7. #7
    Sound Scents
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    was just my tin foil hat theory
    In future I would advise not presenting theory as fact.
    Current Top Favorites:
    1) Portrait of a Lady original formula (EdP Frédéric Malle)
    2) Giorgio for Men vintage/V.I.P. for Men (Giorgio Beverly Hills)
    3) Dia Man vintage edt (Amouage)
    4)
    Anat Fritz Original Formula and Classical (Anat Fritz) - tie
    4) Lalfeorosa (O'driù) - tie

    6)
    Les Nombres d'Or Vetyver (Mona di Orio)
    7) Captain vintage (Molyneux)
    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)
    9) Javanese Patchouli (Zegna) - tie
    9) Monsieur de Givenchy vintage (Givenchy) - tie
    9) Coeur de Vetiver Sacré (L'Artisan) - tie
    9) X for Men (Clive Christian) - tie
    9) Patou pour Homme Privé (Jean Patou) - tie
    9) Oud Shamash (The Different Company) - tie

  8. #8
    Dcampbell
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Kinda reminded me of that one movie with Mel Gibson. Conspiracy Theory I think the name was.

  9. #9

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    niche scents with low duration / sillage are a waste of money, inflated prices are marketing tools...the only houses I truly respect
    (Lutens, Amouage, Creed) move and act like designer houses..Lutens in fact is basically Shiseido!
    sailing the Oceans of Boredom...

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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by Francolino View Post
    niche scents with low duration / sillage are a waste of money, inflated prices are marketing tools...the only houses I truly respect
    (Lutens, Amouage, Creed) move and act like designer houses..Lutens in fact is basically Shiseido!
    Creeds are terrible. I sprayed a Creed and it only lasted 15 minutes. I'm not gonna pay 300 dollars for 15 minutes. lololol

  11. #11

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Creeds have good duration on me, but then again I'm an happy trigger!
    sailing the Oceans of Boredom...

  12. #12

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    I haven't ever considered this. It's an interesting thought but seems a bit too much like a conspiracy theory to me. Maybe I'm just clueless and ignorant.

  13. #13

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses



    lol
    14 sprays of DRAKKAR NOIR should do it

  14. #14
    Super Member Miket's Avatar
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    There is an almost symbiotic relationship between the niche and designer world in that the larger companies could probably absorb the niche market if they wanted to, yet do not. They let the niche companies take the risks, and reap the relatively minor rewards that may come with them. However they're quick to step in and 'take over,' when they smell profit. Being able to produce a reasonable fascimile of a given niche scent at a fraction of the cost they can always usurp the place of a niche fragrance in their own market should it get too big for its boots. In exchange niche companies get to exist, and operate without having to directly compete with giants who could bury them at every turn.

    That's how I see it anyway. There is no reason for the big houses to own niche companies themselves.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    The big houses do own niche companies. That's what all these Private/Exclusive Blends/Collections, etc. are for Guerlain, Dior, Chanel, Tom Ford, Hermes, etc..... Even Lutens for Shiseido. They can have their cake and eat it too - sell millions of bottles for $80 and thousands of bottles for $300.

    Niche brands exist in perfume for the same reason they do in any other business. There is a market for products that may not have a broad appeal, but whose target market is willing to pay a big premium. Fewer bottles sold but much higher profit per bottle makes a nicely profitable business without having to invest in large volume production and distribution, advertising, etc.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    a fascinating idea

  17. #17
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by lanky View Post
    ...fragrance is a multimilion dollar industry....
    More like $35 billion. All kinds of things are going on.
    Last edited by pluran; 12th June 2015 at 11:19 AM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    I can't see why designers should care about niche. To me it seems the other way round. Most niche brands often blatantly replicate the same stuff designers already do (or did), most of the times perfumery progresses thanks to new ideas and concepts coming from mainstream products, and most of the times niche brands would love to be in a mainstream position. And actually in fact many of them already act and think mainstream too, on a smaller scale - focusing it all on marketing nonsense to cover the actual cheap and uninspired quality of the products. Many of them - "avantgarde", "luxury", "historical" brands, they all put 90% of the efforts in building a marketing and visual narration and 10% on the juice. Finally selling the stuff at twice the retail price comparing to designers because manufacturing is more costly to them, as if someone asked them to do that. There's some exceptions of course, I can think of a couple of niche brands which focus on the juices and the creative research and sometimes offer some quality stuff, but they're seldom exceptions. I see way more honesty among designers and mainstreams to this extent.
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    ....Most niche brands often blatantly replicate the same stuff designers already do (or did)....
    Fact. Remove the hundreds of greats that came before the niche explosion and there wouldn't be much to talk about.

  20. #20

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    In theory, it would be quite easy to agree. But if so, as correctly aforementioned at least partly, how to explain designer outliers (both as part of exclusive and even regular lines) hat equal or even outdo niche in terms of quality, creativity, rare, fair trade and/or state of the art ingredients and techniques etc.?
    Currently wearing: Citrus & Wood by Yardley

  21. #21
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    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    I can't see why designers should care about niche. To me it seems the other way round. Most niche brands often blatantly replicate the same stuff designers already do (or did), most of the times perfumery progresses thanks to new ideas and concepts coming from mainstream products, and most of the times niche brands would love to be in a mainstream position. And actually in fact many of them already act and think mainstream too, on a smaller scale - focusing it all on marketing nonsense to cover the actual cheap and uninspired quality of the products. Many of them - "avantgarde", "luxury", "historical" brands, they all put 90% of the efforts in building a marketing and visual narration and 10% on the juice. Finally selling the stuff at twice the retail price comparing to designers because manufacturing is more costly to them, as if someone asked them to do that. There's some exceptions of course, I can think of a couple of niche brands which focus on the juices and the creative research and sometimes offer some quality stuff, but they're seldom exceptions. I see way more honesty among designers and mainstreams to this extent.
    Designers should and do care about niche for the same reasons that distilleries and multinational breweries care about craft distilleries and micro breweries: loss of market share.

    Your other criticisms of most niche brands being focused on the marketing and promotional aspects seems bang on. In the end the business of perfumery is "moving product", not necessarily creating art, whether it be designer or niche.

    I'm not sure designers and mainstream are any more honest than niche brands. Perhaps they are, but it's hard to tell as there's plenty of bullshit in whatever segment of the perfume industry you look at. In the sense that niche brands are keen to sell a more elaborate illusion with their product, something beyond "smelling great", "attractive", or whatever, you could be right.

  22. #22

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Don't agree with this concept. Different target audiences for a start -- why would big designer houses be searching for ideas targeted for a 'niche' clientele -- how's that gonna bring in the filthy lucre.

    That works both ways though -- why would 'niche' outfits copy fragrances designed for the mass market -- niche customers are a pretty hard to please audience and probably not likely to cough up 2 or 3 hundred quid for an Invictus clone.

    I don't see much 'marketing' action either with niche -- it's all word of mouth and whether they can get their products into the big stores (they probably have to pay for that privilege anyway)

    There's good and bad in both, but I have a lot more respect for small niche outfits like Laboratory and 4160 Tuesdays and even ELdO who don't charge the earth and consistently strive to produce fragrances that are a little different and innovative.

  23. #23

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    niche customers are a pretty hard to please audience
    Well...
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  24. #24

    Default Re: niche houses are Prototype testing for larger designer houses

    Quote Originally Posted by Colin Maillard View Post
    Well...
    I know what you mean ... I did say 'pretty' hard to please

    I was excluding the niche buyers with more money than sense

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