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  1. #1
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    Default Please Critique my Recipe

    So this would be my second perfume I have ever created and I feel I can grow much quicker with some guidence and I was wondering what everyone thinks becuase my first scent was a huge failure as well as alot of insperation and knowledge came from people from basenotes...

    The formula is 1ml Ambergris, 3ml Sandalwood, 1.5ml iso-e-super 25ml perfumers alcohol... A couple of points is that

    1. I felt I should keep it simple because I am a newbie
    2. I took a card from cooking, that is when you have great ingredients you should let them shine. (further inspiration from this train of thought was also taken from Molecule 01- one ingredient theory.


    It is to soon to tell what the scent will truely become... my personal thoughts and opinions is that I felt the sandalwood I used was not good enough - So I took into account the ratio of sandalwood to ambergris from aspects of advice from another thread to let the ambergris shine through. So I added alot of ambergris in attempt to recover from melancholy sandalwood...

    The problem is that both ingredients I used did not have alot of scent to them however I love the airyness aspect of the ambergris but the ingredient combination is not a scent that I can say "wow, that is incrediable" because of my lack luster sandalwood.

    I really need to get my hands on better sandalwood and reformulate to have a better understanding of this recipe.

    I also am thinking of adding Labdanum, Amber and frankincense from inspiration from AMOUAGE Tribute Attar (that I have never smelled) but the passion from others from this perfume really inspires me.

    Anyways clearly my experience is shinning through but a helpful critique would really help me grow

    Thanks

    I also have never smelled Labdanum and amber, but I can only imagine from the descriptions of others

  2. #2
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Probably 100 times too much Ambergris... just as a ballpark figure... (Sorry for the American Baseball colloquialism...)

    Sure, you could easily add more items in that one...

    HAVE FUN!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    LMAO! thanks!!! I really wasnt sure how much was to much... very good to know!!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    What do you actually have as ingredients? Give us a list and we can help you start.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    I still have to order the amber, frankincense and Labdanum and I do plan to add myrrh and vanilla to the order but what I currently have in EO is lavender, jasmine, jasmine sambac, indian vetiver, yiang ylang extra, yiang ylang complete, lemon, clove bud, sweet orange, patcholi, ambergris

    and in the synthetics: Hedione, indolene, iso e super, GLUCAM P-20



    )

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Where'd you pick up your supplies? Specifically the ambergris, and the synths

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Hey JungleNYC,

    I got the ambergris and the synths at perfumers apprentice and most of my EO come from http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/


  8. #8
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    This could turn out to be an interesting thread for me. I've got a few aroma chems/oils etc, I'm trying to make some, and more are in the post.

    Most things so far have been pretty terrible and have gone in the mille fleurs bottle - just in case - so I'm following lucky's minimalist route.

    The best I've come up with so far is the following:

    40 drops iso E
    10 drops Hedione
    dilute to 85%

    I've added 2 drops of cedryl methyl ether (Cedramber) to that, and it's sitting in the fridge maturing while my nose recovers from diluting some of the decanal that arrived the other day.

    Any suggestions welcome...

    I've got a few ml of Firmenich Sandalwood 184025. That smells much more like sandalwood than the sandalwood oil I bought from the local hippie shop.

    -

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyrory View Post
    Hey JungleNYC,

    I got the ambergris and the synths at perfumers apprentice and most of my EO come from http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.com/

    I've had friends who had problems with new direction's EO being cut with solvents. I would recommend you checking out the suppliers thread for trusted EO sellers.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    I have the following (from olfactik)

    Aurantiol
    Benzyl acetate
    Benzyl salicylate
    Benzoin Resinoid (Mobile)
    Bergamot Oil FCF
    Cade Tar (Rectified) (EO)
    Carrot seed EO
    Citral (Synthetic)
    Citronellol
    Clary Sage EO
    Coriander Seed EO
    Coumarin
    Cypress (EO)
    Elemi (EO)
    Frankincense (Somalian)
    Geranium China (EO)
    Labdanum Oil (EO)
    Lemon (FCF)
    Linalool
    Methyl anthranilate
    Methyl ionone gamma
    Oakmoss (RIFM) (ABS)
    Octanol (Aldehyde C8)
    Patchouli (EO)
    Vetivert (Haiti) (EO)


    Just happened to have a few ml of these:

    All by Fermenich

    Delphone
    Delphol HC
    Cassis
    Grapefruit
    Mandarinal
    Splendione
    Tamarine
    Veloutone
    Wardia

    I've been promised some Ambroxan from a friend.


    And I've got some EO's of doubtful provenance from e-bay or the local hippie shoppe. These include cedar, which should be OK 'cos it's cheap to produce - I used some to scent wood polish - gingergrass and violet leaf.

    And vanillin. Loads of vanillin. I'll make that up tomorrow.

    -
    Last edited by Skelly; 1st February 2013 at 08:09 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Skelly, I love the sounds of your mixture, it resonates a feminine molecule 01! You ve got to let me know how it turns out!!

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyrory View Post
    Skelly, I love the sounds of your mixture, it resonates a feminine molecule 01! You ve got to let me know how it turns out!!
    It's not too bad; I've been wearing it all day and no one held their nose and ran away or anything. The cedramber seems to just take that slightly abrasive edge off the Iso E.

    So far so good, so I've added to and adjusted the formula:

    Iso E 30 drops
    Hedione 10
    Cedramber 3
    Light Patchouli 100% 1 drop (I really need to dilute this to make it controllable)
    Benzoin 10% 5
    Coumarin 10% 2 (probably one too many)

    I think I might be on to something here; it's the first thing I've formulated that actually smells a little bit like perfume.

    I diluted my oakmoss abs today, and put a little on the back of my hand to get to know it. If I wear the iso etc formula on my wrist and swap between the two they seem to go together, so tomorrow I'll mix 'em up.

    Maybe with some sandalwood and bergamot? And the tiniest amount of coriander?

    -

  13. #13
    Super Member jsparla's Avatar
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Hi Skelly,

    a lot of woman's perfume's rely on a basic skeleton of what i call my MAGISH accord:
    Methyl Ionone, Ambergris, Galaxolide, Iso E Super and Hedione.
    The exact formulation can be found here. On this website you will also find a dozen complete formulations and a few other accords for inspiration.

    One thing i noticed is that you purchased Ambergris from Perfumers Apprentice; as far as i know they sell it in 1% and 3% tinctured dilutions. That would explain the the huge dose Paul is referring to; i think you used a diluted tincture (or perhaps a frangrance oil named Ambergris; it exists, De Hekserij in The Netherlands sells it).

    Happy perfuming!

    JEroen.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Skelly View Post
    It's not too bad; I've been wearing it all day and no one held their nose and ran away or anything. The cedramber seems to just take that slightly abrasive edge off the Iso E.

    So far so good, so I've added to and adjusted the formula:

    Iso E 30 drops
    Hedione 10
    Cedramber 3
    Light Patchouli 100% 1 drop (I really need to dilute this to make it controllable)
    Benzoin 10% 5
    Coumarin 10% 2 (probably one too many)

    I think I might be on to something here; it's the first thing I've formulated that actually smells a little bit like perfume.

    I diluted my oakmoss abs today, and put a little on the back of my hand to get to know it. If I wear the iso etc formula on my wrist and swap between the two they seem to go together, so tomorrow I'll mix 'em up.

    Maybe with some sandalwood and bergamot? And the tiniest amount of coriander?

    -
    This sounds good, but I think you should certainly dilute your patchouli and still only use one or two drops - it's very easy to end up with everything else overwhelmed and you just have hippie juice otherwise.

    BTW Paul mentioned the ambergris was overdone - if you bought the 1% tincture from PA then I think you've the right amount or perhaps even too little. With one of the pure, synthetic ambergris such as ambroxan, ambrofix, cetalox, ambrox DL and others Paul would be spot-on, but most of those are crystals.

    Rather than an inferior natural sandalwood, you could consider using one (or a mix) of the sandalwood replacers that are about: SantalIFF, Sandalore, Javanol, Ebanol etc. If you are going to use just one then either sandalore or ebanol, javanol is too strong and harsh used alone and SantalIFF is better used either with other synthetics or to round out natural sandalwood, which might help if you're not happy with yours.

    Final thought: you've got some methyl ionone gamma there - perhaps a drop of that at 10% might enhance the floral quality a bit too.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Ya, I used a 1% tincture from perfumes apprentice, this is good to hear ...

    I have also found the website with the MAGISH accord and along with Chris's website very helpful. I find I keep going back to both time and time again...

    I was wondering if in the MAGISH recipe; if Galaxolide and Methyl ionone are essential ingredients and could be done without or substituted with naturals?

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Thanks to Chris and Jeroen for their links and formula tips; that's a really useful site you've made J. I'll work some of those up as soon as I obtain the ingredients.

    Here's my latest formula, with notes. I made this up before I read the suggestions that Chris made, so it's still a little heavy on the patchouli. It's very good patchouli, mind.

    Bergamot EO 100% 4. This bergamot - from olfactik - is much more vibrant than the EO I bought from the local hippie shop. I think the blend will take more.

    Benzoin 10% 10.

    Cedramber 6.

    Coriander EO 10% 3. I'm quite pleased with this. Seems about right.

    Coumarin 10% 3. The coumarin crashes out of solution (though not out of the blend) when refrigerated. I'll either have to make it up at 5%, or try a co-solvent such as monopropylene glycol instead of neat ETOH

    Hedione 20. Hard to go wrong with this.

    Iso E 50. Can probably reduce this, but it doesn't seem to do any harm.

    Oakmoss ABS 10% 8. Perhaps a bit much, though it's gorgeous, dark, complex stuff. Much, much nicer than the oakmoss fragrance oil I was using before, which smells like old damp carpet in comparison.

    Patchouli (light) EO 100% 2. OK. Too much. I'll change this next time.

    Sandalwood Firmenich 184025H 3. I only have a few ml of this left, so I'll blend it with natural oil as per Chris's suggestion and use that.

    methyl ionone gamma - none as yet, though thanks for the suggestion

    I'm tempted to mess about a bit with this, but I won't touch it for a few days. Trying to compose perfumes seems a little like mixing music or preparing a photograph for printing, in that it's really easy to get fatigued and do the equivalent of overdoing the bass or the dodging and burning, so a break is in order.

    All suggestions, criticisms and comments welcome; it's all good, and helps me learn.

    -

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    That's great and I think the way you are going about it is very sensible. I have to say that I still get carried away with my enthusiasm and wreck the blend I'm working on due to impending deadlines . . . patience is the greatest virtue in perfume making.

    It's amazing how much difference something like traces of coriander can make to a blend even though it's such a small proportion.

    I'm not familiar with the Sandalwood replacer that you are using and don't recognise that number so can't comment on that.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    I'm looking at this from a feelings point of view and I feel as if it smells like this (tell me if I'm wrong). A nice basic structure going on.

    A citrus start with a jasminish soaring quality = Bergamot and Hedione
    On a fairly woody/green/musty rich base = Cedramber, Oakmoss, Patchouli and Sandalwood
    With a woodsy underlying kick with longevity and diffusiveness = Iso E
    With a sweet but not sickly almondy touch = Benzoin and Coumarin
    A smooth but herbal fresh twist of spice = Coriander

    I suggest some body to this, some linking elements to fat it out a bit. Maybe a really classy rose and a touch of real jasmine, not to overpower but to put some flesh on the bones. Some richness like tobacco or labdanum (micro). Maybe some vetiver to green the greens. I feel like this is a lovely structure but needs the colour turning up a bit, but not by much.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    This essential oil blend worked well for me, I call it "growing up fast" because it has the youthful sweet smell top note transitioning well to a more grown up woman's scent, but without losing the sweetness of the top for quite a long time. Smells very classy and professional, gentle and sweet, but ends up quite patchoulli/amber/mild spice smelling (I may tweak the base, would prefer more sandalwood but don't own it, any suggestions?):

    top:
    vanilla 10 drops
    sweet vanilla synthetic 3 drops
    strawberry 1 drop
    tea tree oil 1 drop
    (francincense, ylangylang, mandarin blend) 4 drops
    aged english lavender 4 drops
    bergamot 7 drops

    mid:
    jasmine 3 drops
    geranium 1 drop
    tuberose 1 drop

    base:
    musk 20 drops
    benzoin ~15 drops
    amyris 3 drops
    4 drops amber (french labdanum, patchoulli, benzoin, vanilla, incense, amyris blend)
    1 drop oriental spice (cinnamon, nutmeg, orange, patchouli blend)
    Last edited by Ambolt; 4th February 2013 at 11:24 AM.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    I like the idea of the vetiver, mumsy; I'll try that as soon as I sort out a fresh supply of alcohol. I have labdanum abs 5% which is extremely rich and sweet, and the EO, which is a lot livelier, but without the sweetness. I'll blend a little of these with each other first, to see what happens.

    Some of these oils are pretty fabulous and interesting on their own, especially the ones I've obtained from reputable sources. I really need to get to know them before I can blend with them. This labdanum EO, for example, smells almost medicinal if I smell it neat from the bottle, but has a different character if I get traces of it on my fingers.

    -

    - - - Updated - - -

    Update: I had a few ml of EtOH left and couldn't resist. I made up a 10% solution of the labdanum EO, added two drops, and... WOW! It's totally transformed, jumps off the strip, and now smell like perfume instead of a sweetish - albeit quite nice - blend of oils. It's probably wildly unbalanced and needs loads of work, but what a difference.

    -
    Last edited by Skelly; 4th February 2013 at 07:44 PM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Oh man, I cant wait for my order of labdanum to arrive. I ve been anticipating what this smells like for awhile now from the descriptions.

    I like the sounds of your description Ambolt. I really get a sense of strong contrasts of wood that supports the singing light/ flowery notes? Do you find it easy to work with tea tree? I find it a very strong smell, that I have avoided using it. it almost reminds me of turpentine.

    I ve notice that you have used Benzoin, Bergamot, Coumarin ,Cedramber, and Oakmoss in your palette Mumsy... I have never smelled these ingrediadients as an EO and have been reluctant to order Oakmoss because of safety standards (being new) But I am interested on your opinion on Benzoin? I have been reading alot of great reviews on the ingredient and it starting to sound like a must buy?

    Example reviews http://www.newdirectionsaromatics.co...oil-p-182.html

  22. #22

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    I think I would say Benzoin was a fairly staple EO in a perfumers palette, but ask yourself what sort of fragrances do you actually like. Do they lean towards citrus or sweet or woody? Get the right things for you. Benzoin will sweeten without overpowering like a vanilla can, but it has a nuance of its own. I think it is useful but it doesn't always blend so well. Find some benzoin posts and see what is said about it before you purchase some. Also if the two of you are beginning at about the same time, then swap some. It will help contain the costs.

    Look up the frags you enjoy and get a feel of what sorts of ingredients they contain. Thos will be the right sorts to start with for you. I love Oakmoss.

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Great advice mumsy thank you

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Tea tree is difficult to work with. I used it here to give a little more freshness to the top notes without adding more citrus. It seemed to blend in to this mix ok though I should probably have diluted it first so I could use smaller amounts. If I had more synthetics I may have included some of those instead, but since I was going for a slightly more fougere fragrance, I'm still happy with it

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have heaps of benzoin and bergamot if you want to swap for those

  25. #25
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Ya, I am down for swaps too I dont have alot of ingredients in excess for trades at the moment except iso-e-super, but that stuff is very inexpensive though. When I do, I ll message you

  26. #26

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Skelly View Post
    I have the following (from olfactik)

    Aurantiol
    Benzyl acetate
    Benzyl salicylate
    Benzoin Resinoid (Mobile)
    Bergamot Oil FCF
    Cade Tar (Rectified) (EO)
    Carrot seed EO
    Citral (Synthetic)
    Citronellol
    Clary Sage EO
    Coriander Seed EO
    Coumarin
    Cypress (EO)
    Elemi (EO)
    Frankincense (Somalian)
    Geranium China (EO)
    Labdanum Oil (EO)
    Lemon (FCF)
    Linalool
    Methyl anthranilate
    Methyl ionone gamma
    Oakmoss (RIFM) (ABS)
    Octanol (Aldehyde C8)
    Patchouli (EO)
    Vetivert (Haiti) (EO)


    Just happened to have a few ml of these:

    All by Fermenich

    Delphone
    Delphol HC
    Cassis
    Grapefruit
    Mandarinal
    Splendione
    Tamarine
    Veloutone
    Wardia

    I've been promised some Ambroxan from a friend.


    And I've got some EO's of doubtful provenance from e-bay or the local hippie shoppe. These include cedar, which should be OK 'cos it's cheap to produce - I used some to scent wood polish - gingergrass and violet leaf.

    And vanillin. Loads of vanillin. I'll make that up tomorrow.

    -
    I don't know if I'm too late but the Haitian vetiver oil from Olfactik is actually Javanese! I ordered some from them and complained within five minutes of smelling the bottle. They have since updated their website and I've been fully refunded.

  27. #27
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Speaking of vetiver, I just tried it for the first time... its incredible! I tried the India version... any suggestions for using and buying vetiver?

  28. #28

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyrory View Post
    Speaking of vetiver, I just tried it for the first time... its incredible! I tried the India version... any suggestions for using and buying vetiver?
    Here's more information on what's out there:

    http://www.basenotes.net/group.php?groupid=92

  29. #29
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Group Joined! Thanks for the info Trebor!

  30. #30

    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by luckyrory View Post
    Group Joined! Thanks for the info Trebor!
    No worries!

  31. #31
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    Default Re: Please Critique my Recipe

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    I don't know if I'm too late but the Haitian vetiver oil from Olfactik is actually Javanese! I ordered some from them and complained within five minutes of smelling the bottle. They have since updated their website and I've been fully refunded.
    Thanks for the heads up, though I wouldn't know one from the other atm...

    -

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