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  1. #61

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    It seems to originate from here
    http://www.icao.int/safety/Dangerous.../annex-18.aspx

    Globalisation rules

  2. #62

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Oh jeez.

    OK then I rang Royal Mail and made a trip to the Post Office this morning to find out the situation about sending within the UK.

    The manager of the Post Office said you can send bottles of perfume within the UK but the legislation is going to change on July and rules will mirror the international legislation and sending of 'dangerous goods' ie perfume will be prohibited. She believed the ID8000 sticker is only used when items are being returned to the sender and are not necissary.


    From a Royal Mail supervisor in the customer services department When sending perfume/aftershave in the uk you must wrap the item in polythene/bubble wrap with an air tight seal so nothing leaks, You'll have to Mark as ‘FRAGILE’ or use Fragile marked tape and affix an ID8000 sticker and put a cross in the box marked perfume on postage box. You must put your name and address on the back to comply with regulations of sending dangerous goods. She had no information in regard to any future changes that may happen in July.


    Sending internationally via Air services is 100% prohibited and the contents will be confiscated and destroyed and you may be liable for prosecution.

  3. #63

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Well, the nail seems to be on the coffin then. Does America not have the same rules as the UK for air freight of perfumes? If so, how do they get around it?

  4. #64

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kron View Post
    Oh jeez.

    OK then I rang Royal Mail and made a trip to the Post Office this morning to find out the situation about sending within the UK.

    The manager of the Post Office said you can send bottles of perfume within the UK but the legislation is going to change on July and rules will mirror the international legislation and sending of 'dangerous goods' ie perfume will be prohibited. She believed the ID8000 sticker is only used when items are being returned to the sender and are not necissary.


    From a Royal Mail supervisor in the customer services department When sending perfume/aftershave in the uk you must wrap the item in polythene/bubble wrap with an air tight seal so nothing leaks, You'll have to Mark as ‘FRAGILE’ or use Fragile marked tape and affix an ID8000 sticker and put a cross in the box marked perfume on postage box. You must put your name and address on the back to comply with regulations of sending dangerous goods. She had no information in regard to any future changes that may happen in July.


    Sending internationally via Air services is 100% prohibited and the contents will be confiscated and destroyed and you may be liable for prosecution.
    Thanks for that.

    Will post Mr. Eadie's reply when received - my worry is that the staff have been issued with different rules to website users at present.
    What a shower!

    - - - Updated - - -

    To james.r.eadie@royalmail.com
    Please help me to understand your new restrictions - a Basenotes member was told this today:-




    Join Date
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    Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!
    Oh jeez.

    OK then I rang Royal Mail and made a trip to the Post Office this morning to find out the situation about sending within the UK.

    The manager of the Post Office said you can send bottles of perfume within the UK but the legislation is going to change on July and rules will mirror the international legislation and sending of 'dangerous goods' ie perfume will be prohibited. She believed the ID8000 sticker is only used when items are being returned to the sender and are not necissary.


    From a Royal Mail supervisor in the customer services department When sending perfume/aftershave in the uk you must wrap the item in polythene/bubble wrap with an air tight seal so nothing leaks, You'll have to Mark as ‘FRAGILE’ or use Fragile marked tape and affix an ID8000 sticker and put a cross in the box marked perfume on postage box. You must put your name and address on the back to comply with regulations of sending dangerous goods. She had no information in regard to any future changes that may happen in July.


    Sending internationally via Air services is 100% prohibited and the contents will be confiscated and destroyed and you may be liable for prosecution.

    However, your 'news' quite clearly states (relevant bits in bold):-

    11 January 2013
    Reminder: updated rules
    Royal Mail is reminding consumers that to comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization’s Technical Instructions for the Safe Carriage of Dangerous Goods By Air, it is updating rules which prohibit specific products from international services from Monday (14 January). The changes follow a public consultation
    From Monday, consumers will be able to send lithium batteries contained in a device in the international post, subject to packaging requirements. All lithium batteries were previously prohibited from international parcels. Lithium batteries not installed in a device continue to be prohibited
    Beverages with alcohol content above 24% ABV will be prohibited from international parcels. Royal Mail is working with international regulators with the aim of allowing alcoholic beverages above 24 per cent ABV to be sent in international parcels
    Aerosols, nail varnish, perfumes and aftershaves continue to be prohibited to international destinations for all consumer and business customers
    The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) have also agreed updated rules with Royal Mail for individuals sending small quantities of specific previously prohibited consumer items through the post to UK addresses. It is intended that these will come into effect on 15 July, following public consultation expected to begin in March
    The changes in July, which follow a review of Royal Mail’s position with the CAA, DfT and MCA, mean consumers will be able to post toiletry and medicinal aerosols, nail varnishes, perfumes and aftershaves, which are currently prohibited by dangerous goods regulations, to UK addresses
    The updated set of rules will limit the risk posed by those consumer items containing flammable liquid, aerosols or lithium batteries when sent in the post
    Dangerous goods transport regulations also apply to other parcel delivery companies. Royal Mail already restricts or prohibits specific products from its network
    Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd will work with customers to ensure they are given the appropriate advice on the new arrangements when they are introduced during 2013

    Royal Mail is reminding consumers that to comply with the International Civil Aviation Organization’s Technical Instructions for the Safe Carriage of Dangerous Goods By Air, it is updating rules which prohibit specific products from international services from Monday (14 January). This follows a public consultation.

    From Monday, consumers will be able to send lithium batteries contained in a device in the international post, subject to packaging requirements*. All lithium batteries were previously prohibited from international parcels. Lithium batteries not installed in a device continue to be prohibited.
    Beverages with alcohol content above 24% ABV will be prohibited from international parcels. Royal Mail is working with international regulators with the aim of allowing alcoholic beverages above 24 per cent ABV to be sent in international parcels, but even if successful, the earliest this might take effect would be 2015.

    Aerosols (including deodorants, body sprays, hair sprays, shaving and removal creams), nail varnish, perfumes and aftershaves continue to be prohibited to international destinations for all consumer and business customers.

    The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) have also agreed updated rules with Royal Mail for individuals sending small quantities of specific previously prohibited consumer items through the post to UK addresses. It is intended that these will come into effect on 15 July, following public consultation expected to begin in March.

    The changes in July, which follow a review of Royal Mail’s position with the CAA, DfT and MCA, mean consumers will be able to post toiletry and medicinal aerosols, nail varnishes, perfumes and aftershaves, which are currently prohibited by dangerous goods regulations, to UK addresses. Customers posting will need to comply with quantity, volume, packaging and labelling requirements. They will also allow customers to post alcohol up to 70 per cent ABV and electronic items sent with or containing lithium batteries within the UK (conditions apply).

    The updated set of rules will limit the risk posed by those consumer items containing flammable liquid, aerosols or lithium batteries when sent in the post.

    Dangerous goods transport regulations also apply to other parcel delivery companies. Royal Mail already restricts or prohibits specific products from its network.

    The updated rules will result in additional cost for Royal Mail itself, as it puts in place a range of measures to control the low risk items entering the postal network. Royal Mail and Post Office Ltd will work with customers to ensure they are given the appropriate advice on the new arrangements when they are introduced during 2013.

    Ends

    For further information contact:
    James Eadie
    Director of Products and Services PR
    Royal Mail Group
    020 7250 2468/07850 757271
    james.r.eadie@royalmail.com

    Notes to editors:

    A full list of all prohibited and restricted items can be found on the Royal Mail Group website onwww.royalmail.com/prohibitedgoods and www.royalmail.com/restrictedgoods
    Parcelforce Worldwide will also introduce updated rules for its consumer and non-account business customers at the same time as Royal Mail makes the changes
    * Some countries will continue to choose not to accept lithium batteries into their networks. Advice to consumers will be provided at Post Office branches.



    Which is correct?
    Best wishes,
    Last edited by lpp; 11th February 2013 at 12:07 PM.

  5. #65

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Just found this:

    http://www.royalmail.com/sites/defau...Jan-2013_2.pdf

    page 32/33

    -Follow these packaging guidelines:
    Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four
    perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package.

    -The perfume or aftershave must be within its original retail packaging
    and then placed in strong outer packaging. The inner packagings
    must be packed, secured or cushioned to prevent breakage or
    leakage of their contents into the outer packaging.

    -An ID8000 label must be applied (see page 40). The sender’s name and
    return address must be clearly visible on the outer packaging.

    -These items may only be sent using our 1st Class or 2nd Class
    products paid for via online postage, franking or on account (VAT
    exempt 1st and 2nd Class Account Mail), Special Delivery™
    paid
    for via online postage, franking or on account, Royal Mail Tracked®
    and Royal Mail Sameday®
    . Please note Packetpost™
    Returns,
    Business Response, Freepost™
    and all variants of Packetpost™
    and Packetsort™
    are excluded.

  6. #66

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I'm so sorry that you've had so much hassle.

    Edited - your link is for  
    Prohibitions and restrictions in the domestic and international post
    A guide for Royal Mail contract and account customers
    Valid from 14th January 2013

    We need it officially the same for consumers (non-account) customers.
    Last edited by lpp; 11th February 2013 at 01:01 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four
    perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package.

    This is what Les Senteurs quoted me in their reply.

    So International and private sales are a no for us in the UK now it seems.
    DONNA

  8. #68
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    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentsucker View Post
    Well, the nail seems to be on the coffin then. Does America not have the same rules as the UK for air freight of perfumes? If so, how do they get around it?
    In regards to Domestic First Class Mail we can send, but in regards to any International Mail, whether it be First Class, Priority Mail or Express Mail, fragrances are a no-no since they will travel by air, which has been a no-no for quite some time, just like most of the world.

    As has been done for quite some time, both here and internationally, when sending Perfume by Air the paperwork is marked as something other than Perfume, RE: Cosmetics, Glassware, etc.

    The amount of mail that runs through our systems in 15 minutes probably amounts to a full day in the UK and with this amount of mail, it is unlikely they will catch it unless the package gets broken open. Now what happens once it leaves the US and arrives at the destination country is another thing entirely.

  9. #69

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four
    perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package.

    This is what Les Senteurs quoted me in their reply.

    So International and private sales are a no for us in the UK now it seems.
    Thanks Donna - my email has not been answered yet - 'phoned Mr. Eadie but apparently he's been tied up all day.
    A guy in his office did ask me to fwd the email to him, so he could pass it to 'the expert' (not sure why that should be needed, maybe 'cos I explained about the conflicting info. being given out by their staff) & I will copy & paste the reply as soon as it arrives.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Palmbeach - at least it's not just us then!

  10. #70

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Thanks for the explanation PalmBeach!

    Eagerly awaiting the reply to your letter llp.

  11. #71

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Scentsucker View Post
    Thanks for the explanation PalmBeach!

    Eagerly awaiting the reply to your letter llp.
    Hmm, have to go out first thing 2moro, but if no reply by lunchtime, they will be badgered until we have a definitive answer!
    In writing.
    The guy that spoke to me today (whose name I have) initially felt that it was correct that scent was not to be posted by private customers at present, but when I explained that some people had been told over the last few days by their P.O.'s that it was O.K., he asked for a copy of the email so a higher authority could be consulted.
    I explained that people swap samples with each other as a hobby, which was an interesting bit of the conversation!

    How can anything so simple be so complicated?

  12. #72

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    Volume per item must not exceed 150ml. No more than four
    perfumes or aftershaves can be sent in any one package.

    This is what Les Senteurs quoted me in their reply.

    So International and private sales are a no for us in the UK now it seems.
    You definately can send fragrance within the UK, You just need to jump through a few hoops first.

  13. #73

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Wanted to let everyone know that I got a parcel from ebay seller from UK, the first was via Royal Mail was returned to him, but the one which was sent via ParcelForce global priority went trough, also I have been sending fragrances (decants) in UK and all my receivers got them just fine, so it seems that getting perfume in UK is not a problem (though I did declare them as body products or something of the sort, nor anyone checked what I am sending in my postal office).

  14. #74

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    My bottle of Heeley Iris de Nuit arrived from a UK business ebay seller yesterday. It was TNT which is delivered by Royal Mail.

    But our problems will hit on the 15th July, its the international ones they are targeting at the moment.
    DONNA

  15. #75

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    OMNISHAMBLES ALERT! ROYAL MAIL EPIC FAIL

    Kill me now someone & massive apologies to Kron (grovel, grovel).

    Having just returned from talking to our lovely Postmaster, who has read me the same instructions as Kron's P.O., & since R.M. have not replied to my email yet, I tried to speak to the guy in the Press Office who happily spoke with me yesterday.

    Unfortunately, the 'phone was answered by a female jobsworth who not only refused to speak to me, but tried not to even listen & totally refused to give her name several times (despite the fact that I had given mine).
    Apparently, the Press Office only speak to Press & customers need to speak with Customer Service.

    I explained that their incorrect (?) press release dated January 11 was the reason for my call as it contained different info. to that which had been given to staff & that I really need to know whether the website or the staff instructions are correct.
    As she still refused to discuss it, I'm afraid that I told her that if she wanted to speak with the Press I'd do my level best to find her some!

    So, whether the website is incorrect or not, the R.M. Post Offices have been given totally different written instructions.

    Therefore, at the moment, we (consumers aka personal customers) MAY post scent inland.

    The Overseas aspect appears to be the same on the website & in the P.O.'s - illegal.

    Updated:

    Emailed press.

    Spoke to Customer Service. The first person told me (no kidding!) that 'prohibited' means that they will not compensate if the item is lost...
    As we differed over the meaning of the word 'prohibited', I politely asked to be transferred.
    Was transferred to the wrong department, who kindly transferred me to someone who was able to read (a bit).
    It was a battle, but we finally read the website together, Press Release & Prohibited Goods bits, & she told me that it was O.K. & didn't mean that we couldn't.
    I became slightly more exasperated than before as she appeared more senior.
    But your website says that scent is prohibited I said in a slightly patient sort of voice, normally reserved for the senile or very young.
    That's O.K. - it isn't she told me.
    After consulting with another team, she agreed that the website was wrong & gave me the 'phone number of the I.T. department so that I could have it changed.
    As I am not paid to do this, I regret that I have not done so.

    Unlike Royal Mail, who did not, even once, say anything resembling 'sorry', I am truly sorry that so many of us have been penalised for trying to abide by the law.

    Reply from R,M.
    I am a patient person, under normal circumstances,.....BUT WTF? - now read this, just received:-

    David Gee
    Reference 1-2422895520



    Dear



    Thank you for emailing James Eadie yesterday about the changes to what can and can not be sent to oversea’s destinations. As part of our Chairman and Chief Executive’s Office, I have been asked to provide a response on James’ behalf.



    I am sorry you have received inconsistent information. This will be addressed with the relevant teams. I can completely understand why this has led to some confusion and I would like to offer some clarification on which is correct. Full details about the changes to what we can and cannot carry can be found at www.royalmail.com/termschanges but to briefly outline, last year, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) agreed updated rules with Royal Mail for sending small quantities of specific consumer items through the post, which affect what can and cannot be sent to both UK and international destinations. In some cases, these updated rules mean specific changes to the types of items that can be carried by Royal Mail.



    Perfumes are prohibited from being sent to international destinations. From 14 January 2013, where Royal Mail finds perfumes addressed overseas we may deal with them as we see fit, including but not limited to, destroying or disposing of those items.



    Perfumes are currently prohibited by dangerous goods regulations and should not be sent to UK addresses. From 15 July 2013, perfumes can be sent in the domestic post as long as certain packaging guidelines are met which includes the volume per item not exceeding 150ml; no more than four items to be sent in any one package and a 'dangerous goods in limited quantities' (ID8000) label being applied.



    I would like to thank you for raising your concerns and if I can be of any further help or assistance, please contact me again.



    Kind regards



    David Gee

    Chairman and Chief Executive Office

    100 Victoria Embankment LONDON EC4Y 0HQ



    AAAARGH!!!!!!!!!!

    Dear Mr Gee,

    Thank you for your reply.

    My main concern is that the local staff who receive, weigh mail,etc. & give advice to customers have different instructions to that given to customers on your website.

    A number of people, including me, have over the last few days been inconvenienced by your Post Office staff telling us that we can still post scent whilst your website suddenly indicated otherwise.

    However,in respect of your reply, a member of your Customer Service Dept. just today read your website with me (Press Release & Prohibited Goods) and told me that it was, as a personal customer, o.k. to send scent within the U.K. , subject to volume & packing controls. I queried this a number of times & she consulted with someone else.
    I was told that the website & Press Release were wrong & given the 'phone no. of your I.T. dept so I could ask for it to be changed.
    I'm a customer, so have no intention of doing this.
    They were in no doubt that I am a personal customer as I explained that I was & needed to know for hobby purposes.
    The first person even told me that 'prohibited' just meant that you wouldn't compensate in the event of loss, but I asked to speak with someone else.

    I suggest that someone urgently looks into & resolves the conflict of information in the hands of various members of your organisation & then issues a further Press Release confirming the correct situation.

    Best wishes,
    Lyn
    13:37

    If it was a nice day, I'd take the dogs out for a VERY long walk, but it's muddy.

    Where's Tucker when u need him?

    UPDATED

    Nice email from Mr. Gee agreeing that further staff training is required & that they wouldn't expect customers to 'phone their I.T. crowd.
    Finally reached someone who listens!

    Also emailed B.B.C News, Guardian & ecommercebytes.com.
    Last edited by lpp; 12th February 2013 at 02:06 PM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    So I cant order my perfume from Netherlands and have it shipped to me in the UK, even if it's from a business in the Netherlands? Argh!!

  17. #77

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Scentsucker - nope, it seems that problems are only for packages going out, not coming in UK.

  18. #78

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I've lost the will to live quite honestly!
    This level of incompetence would just not have happened a few years back.

    Sorry, I don't know the situation on personal customers importing, but imagine that, since this came from the U.N., other countries will be doing the same as us & the U.S - no legal international shipping.
    Suggest take a weekend break to NL?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cereza View Post
    Scentsucker - nope, it seems that problems are only for packages going out, not coming in UK.
    We're talking about legally - they will be x-raying & are already destroying illegal shipments.
    (When you mis-describe the contents as something else it's illegal).

  19. #79

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Well yes, but so far seems that there haven't been reports of packages going in UK being destroyed, mine all have arrived (I have sent 4 packages consisting perfume decants to UK within 2 last weeks, I did not state they are perfume, of course), I did of course hear that there have been destroyed packages of perfumes trying to get out of UK. So there is still hope to at least get stuff in UK.

  20. #80

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    If you wish to break the law, yes.
    We can be prosecuted for it here - you're not here so need to comply with your local laws.
    We have heard of stuff being destroyed.

  21. #81

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Oh dear oh dear. I've also now lost the will to live!

  22. #82

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    If you wish to break the law, yes.
    We can be prosecuted for it here - you're not here so need to comply with your local laws.
    We have heard of stuff being destroyed.

    Oh, pity then, here we might get a warning, but in 4 years none of my packages have been checked,

    I hope they come to their senses over there and UK scent lovers can resume swapping, buying and such.

  23. #83

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Just think for years we have all been members of an international illegal cartel, smuggling perfume on out the country. LOL
    DONNA

  24. #84

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    .....
    (Not quoting the whole post from lpp due to its length)

    You should be given a medal for your efforts lpp!! I for one can't thank you enough for trying to get some sense out of these morons. The droids both running and working at RoyalMail have been living off a gravy train since its creation. It is impossible to speak to any logical person that works for them, their customer services mimic someone out of Fawlty Towers and their 'rules' (both modern and old) are just unrealistic. Most importantly, it's still impossible to sue them when things go wrong. They are protected by countless laws.... I just cannot wait for the day when we have proper choice for post in this country!

    I sincerely hope you get many responses from the papers you've emailed. Might I suggest you also get in touch with others like the Independent, Evening Standard (London, although they are a group of papers), Metro and possibly even the FT.

  25. #85

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    @ rum Aw, thanks - I don't like to accept bureaucracy!

    Although it must be said that my local Sub P.O. are total heroes, always.

    p.s.
    The only benefits of getting old are:
    1) You don't give a s***
    2)Odds are it's happened b4

    Might do, haven't had lunch yet! - just fed the ravening hounds.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @Cereza - Thanks -we should be able to within the U.K. in July, but don't hold your breath
    anyone!

    Hmm, not 100% sure it's really, truthfully, always been banned (within the U.K. anyway)Donna!
    On the mainland we can, as private individuals, probably ship to others on the mainland from July - don't know if you are included in this!
    Registered Business clients may do this now.

    - - - Updated - - -

    @ Scentsucker
    Last edited by lpp; 12th February 2013 at 07:03 PM.

  26. #86

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    so,

    on firday i sent a 500ml guerlain bottle to the uk with dhl, arrived today

  27. #87

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    So where do I stand?

    Thanks to the information I received on the phone yesterday I packaged up and sent 3 splits today within the UK with Fragile tape, id8000 sticker and the box requirements all as they stated to me.

  28. #88

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    You should be O.K., in practice, as they will take ages to tell their staff & will probs assume, if sticker-ed, that they're o.k.
    I hope so anyway.

    One of the reasons that I've posted so much info/copies of website pages/emails on here is so if anything happens to any of us due to following incorrect info. from them, we can print it & raise hell - I'm happy to help you raise hell any time because we should not be treated like this!

  29. #89

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Stellar efforts llp! Thanks for taking up the cause!

    I'm off to commit perfume-related suicide :-(

  30. #90

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    NOOOOO - U'd be missed!

    & thanks!

  31. #91

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    It's sad to see all this crap happening especially with the rather unsurprising lack of clarity from Royal Mail. I feel for those of you that had stuff destroyed by RM, customs or whoever. I guess there was always that risk with sending Internationally as perfumes were not allowed anyway and we got around it by declaring it as cosmetics or toiletries. I was lucky in that I had no outgoing decants/bottles recently and I was able to edit my listing after I saw what's been going on. Just last week I received a parcel from Duty Free Perfume in UK and that had a completed ID8000 label on it. I also had one from ALZD in Germany and that was delivered by Parcel Force. It will be interesting to see what happens with incoming parcels because that could mean no more ALZD, Surrender To Chance etc. God that's going to be heart breaking for me. But I'm going to be really peeved if we can not send within the UK and yet business customers can. It doesn't matter if a business customer has packed it on a box and put the ID8000 sticker on. We can all do that if they made it clear. Being a business customer doesn't make the perfume any safer. Now if anyone from Royal Mail is reading can someone please untie Mr Eadie so he can get to his PC/phone and give us some answers. I really hope you've been feeding him whilst you had him tied up because he's going to have a lot of emails to read.

  32. #92

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I sincerely hope that he's been suffocated by them! But they probs didn't tell him what was going on either!

    At present, the plan is that personal customers *should* be able to ship within the U.K. from July, but I don't think that all the agreements have been signed yet, so the date could alter.

    I also don't think that we know anything approaching the full story.

    Interesting that the Press are not biting, but there's a bit of home news at present, what with dobbin, reynard & all!

  33. #93
    Basenotes Plus
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    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Interesting that the Press are not biting
    LOL! If the press in the UK is anything like the press here in the States, it probably isn't even on their radar.

  34. #94

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    No, more interested housebreaking foxes & bute riddled horse-burgers, (& our leader's new haircut - check out the back-combing!)
    But cc'ing to them usually encourages a reply!

  35. #95

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    'Sending internationally via Air services is 100% prohibited and the contents will be confiscated and destroyed and you may be liable for prosecution'.

    I think it is the same story here in Ireland! Crap! What next - will they stop us bringing home perfume when we are on holiday?! I just bought a bunch of small atomisers, funnels, etc, to start swapping samples!

  36. #96

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I got a parcel yesterday from outside the EU, but it wasn't marked as perfume (not at my request!). I think that was my last perfume by post :-(

  37. #97

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    @ Scentsucker

    Was listening to Dr. D. Spiegelhalter, Prof.of Public Understanding of Risk @ Cambridge on B.B.C. R4's 'Today' earlier.
    He quoted some interesting figures about the safety of international commercial airline flights as last year was apparently the safest since 1945 (475 fatalities in 23 accidents worldwide, way more flights, etc.).

    Presumably it will even be safer now that the dreaded exploding scent bottles no longer fly!

  38. #98

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    I sincerely hope that he's been suffocated by them! But they probs didn't tell him what was going on either!

    At present, the plan is that personal customers *should* be able to ship within the U.K. from July, but I don't think that all the agreements have been signed yet, so the date could alter.

    I also don't think that we know anything approaching the full story.

    Interesting that the Press are not biting, but there's a bit of home news at present, what with dobbin, reynard & all!
    That would be the day, lpp. The ban was imposed without any consultation whatsoever. Disgraceful.

    Quote Originally Posted by galwaygirl001 View Post
    I think it is the same story here in Ireland! Crap! What next - will they stop us bringing home perfume when we are on holiday?! I just bought a bunch of small atomisers, funnels, etc, to start swapping samples!
    And there I was thinking you guys in Ireland had a bit more sense than the muppets we have over here!! Don't let the British teach you about Health and Safety, as your economy will truly go down the toilet then....

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Presumably it will even be safer now that the dreaded exploding scent bottles no longer fly!
    ROTF LMAO....!!

  39. #99

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Tanj!

  40. #100

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    But isn't this an EU thing???????

    So will effect say Ireland and other EU countries?
    DONNA

  41. #101

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post

    Presumably it will even be safer now that the dreaded exploding scent bottles no longer fly!
    Has anybody in the world of officialdom made any announcement regarding on board/in flight duty free perfume sales??

  42. #102

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    But isn't this an EU thing???????

    So will effect say Ireland and other EU countries?
    I was under the impression that it was from the Chicago Convention! Annex 18, from memory, link is somewhere earlier on!
    Or check out Wikipedia:-
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convent...Civil_Aviation

    - - - Updated - - -

    @ HDDS - Sorry, don't know - could ask an airline!

  43. #103

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by HDD8 View Post
    Has anybody in the world of officialdom made any announcement regarding on board/in flight duty free perfume sales??
    These are known to be completely safe because airlines make money out of them . . .
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  44. #104

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    These are known to be completely safe because airlines make money out of them . . .
    Well said!

  45. #105

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by rum View Post
    And there I was thinking you guys in Ireland had a bit more sense than the muppets we have over here!! Don't let the British teach you about Health and Safety, as your economy will truly go down the toilet then....
    It already has! the uk had nothing to do with our economy going down the toilet though, that was excessive lending by banks to fuel a property boom that went bang, our government deciding to bail out the bust banks & turn banking debt into irish debt and the our government accepting EU money to 'help us' in exchange for austerity budgets for the next couple of hundred years and our economic sovereignty...aaaggghhh! Ahem, rant over, sorry, back to perfume!

    The change to international postage laws seems to be an EU thing as well as a US thing - since January my local post office query if parcels destined for international addresses contain perfume, I don't think it was being enforced until this year. I don't want to risk packages being destroyed so until a reasonably priced alternative option comes up for shipping fragrances internationally I will be sticking to postage within Ireland only.
    Last edited by galwaygirl001; 13th February 2013 at 07:00 PM.

  46. #106
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    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Looks Like it isn't Royal Mail's fault, they are just enforcing the ICAO new guidlines:
    International

    International outbound parcels will continue to face the restrictions imposed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), while revised restrictions on international parcels will come into force on 14th January, 2013.
    For Sale: VINTAGE Montales

  47. #107

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by Possum-Pie View Post
    Looks Like it isn't Royal Mail's fault, they are just enforcing the ICAO new guidlines:
    International

    International outbound parcels will continue to face the restrictions imposed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), while revised restrictions on international parcels will come into force on 14th January, 2013.
    Totally agree that the rules/reason for the rules are not their fault - my problem is with the way that they told the public one thing & the poor old staff another!

    And sprung it on the public without notice - don't forget, even Ebay didn't realise until a while after it was affecting sold listings.

    In most businesses, a customer repeatedly asking a question wouldn't need to go to the Chairman's Office for an (eventual) answer as the idea that something was amiss would occur earlier!
    Last edited by lpp; 14th February 2013 at 02:59 PM.

  48. #108

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    after reading through this thread I'm starting to appreciate where I live!!! I thought canada post was bad... HAH!

  49. #109

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by hawk View Post
    after reading through this thread I'm starting to appreciate where I live!!! I thought canada post was bad... HAH!

    Welcome to our world of rampant incompetence!

  50. #110

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Welcome to our world of rampant incompetence!
    LOL

    But how do online stores like luckyscent and First in Fragrance send and receive perfumes? They have all kinds of different perfumes from different parts of the world in their stocks and paying higher fees or using a different shipping service would mean spending extra money which is not what businesses want these days.

  51. #111

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Hawk, Canadian customs are famous for destroying perfume sent from the rest of the world. They send the empty box back and a warning letter. Stuff from the US seemed to be okay.
    DONNA

  52. #112

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    ...
    Last edited by lpp; 14th February 2013 at 01:11 PM.

  53. #113

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I've emailed Essenza Nobile today asking if they've had any problems delivering to the UK, and they said they haven't heard of anything untoward (they use UPS) so I may do a financially risky experiment tomorrow and buy the frag I've been coveting and see what happens....

  54. #114

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    La Falneuse, its products leaving the UK at the moment. Items are coming in okay, so far.

    On MUA a number of people saying they have been swapping and the other side from the UK has not turned up. Cosmetics marked as such are being x-rayed now.
    DONNA

  55. #115

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by donna255 View Post
    La Falneuse, its products leaving the UK at the moment. Items are coming in okay, so far.

    On MUA a number of people saying they have been swapping and the other side from the UK has not turned up. Cosmetics marked as such are being x-rayed now.
    Phew!

    To be honest, this is really confusing what with the often contradictary info from the Royal Mail...I thought the biggest threat to perfume this year would be any new IFRA regs, I shall try and stock up while I can, but the situation is shite frankly

    - - - Updated - - -

    @donna255

    Thanks for the info btw

  56. #116

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    I think I'm going to bite the bullet, and order from the Netherlands in the next few weeks. I'll warn them that they need to find a suitable carrier so the perfume actually gets here.

    In light of all these developments, I went a bit mad and bought quite a few bottles from heathrow duty free yesterday. It seems this may soon become the cheapest way to purchase some fragrances in the UK. Will probably get a few more on the way back....

  57. #117
    Basenotes Plus
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    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by La Flâneuse View Post
    I've emailed Essenza Nobile today asking if they've had any problems delivering to the UK, and they said they haven't heard of anything untoward (they use UPS) so I may do a financially risky experiment tomorrow and buy the frag I've been coveting and see what happens....
    UPS does not generally use commercial carriers, they have their own fleet of planes, so they may not be subject to ICAO.

    Here in the States, you cannot send perfumes any other way except First Class Mail which moves by Ground. UPS will move perfumes by air as long as it is marked with the correct stickers.

  58. #118

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    A response to my letter from a Mr David Gee, Chairman and Chief Executive Office.

    Dear Mrs (I deleted my name for privacy),

    Thank you for emailing James Eadie on 8 February 2013 about the changes to what can and cannot be sent in the mail to overseas destinations. As part of our Chairman and Chief Executive’s Office, I have been asked to look into your enquiry and provide a response.

    Last year, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA), Department for Transport (DfT) and the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) agreed updated rules with Royal Mail for sending small quantities of specific consumer items through the post, which affect what can and cannot be sent to both UK and international destinations. These updated rules mean specific changes to the types of items that can be carried by Royal Mail.

    We cannot speak for airlines or the CAA, however when luggage is checked in at airports there are permitted thresholds of Dangerous Goods that may be carried which can be in check-in baggage, carry-on baggage or on person, and whether you need the airlines’ permission to carry them or whether they are completely forbidden. Airlines and security screening agencies have the right to refuse the carriage of certain items and restrictions implemented by countries in the interests of aviation security.

    There are no reviews due in July 2013. On January 14 2013, the new rules came into effect for all contract business customers sending larger volumes on account to UK addresses and for all consumers and businesses sending items abroad. On July 15 2013, the new rules will be introduced for consumers and smaller business customers who send smaller volumes to UK addresses.

    Royal Mail is not a carrier of dangerous goods and we have been working with the transport regulators to ensure what we do carry is sent in compliance with the rules. Royal Mail is not a licensed ADR Dangerous Goods carrier and as such we are not permitted to carry perfumes to international destinations. We realise the changes will have an effect on the perfumery industry and we are sorry that this is the case.

    I would like to thank you for raising your concerns about the changes and giving us the opportunity to respond. If I can be of any further help or assistance, please contact me again.

    Yours sincerely

    David Gee
    Chairman and Chief Executive Office
    100 Victoria Embankment LONDON EC4Y 0HQ


    - - - Updated - - -

    This quite clearly states that there are NO REVIEWS due in July 2013. This is sealed and delivered and seemingly unchangeable however hard we stamp our perfumers little feet. We need to find a solution that complies and yet achieves what we need.

    The question is simple...
    How are we going to be allowed to send small fragrance samples globally and without risk of destruction?

    I have tried one method which was to soak cotton in fragrance. The recipient has received it and was able to apply the frag. I'm not sure this actually achieved full compliance as in flammability but it did prevent it being a liquid and therefore was not under that section rule any longer.

    Other options that presumably still comply may be
    a) solid perfumes.
    b) perfumes in oil as a base
    c) perfume ingredients as long as they are not in an alcohol base as a tincture

    I have to say this has blown my own business plans up entirely. Many years of careful planning and investment about to whistle up the swanee unless we can find a reasonable and compliant solution.

  59. #119

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    The question is simple...
    How are we going to be allowed to send small fragrance samples globally and without risk of destruction?
    There simply has to be a way - can't we start to use DHL, Citi Post, UPS or something along those lines?

  60. #120

    Default Re: No national nor international shipping of fragrances from July 15th 2013!

    Check out Royal Mail twitter feed - quote:-

    "I'm hiring! Senior Communications Manager at Royal Mail - United Kingdom'

    Thanks R.M.!

    I re-iterate:
    "Totally agree that the rules/reason for the rules are not their fault - my problem is with the way that they told the public one thing & the poor old staff another!

    And sprung it on the public without notice - don't forget, even Ebay didn't realise until a while after it was affecting sold listings.''


    I'm sure that something will be worked out & maybe we will be told about it when it is!
    The online retailers are trying to find carriers, so hopefully there will be a way.

    How much money & goods are lost by people in the meantime remains to be seen - one Ebay seller has apparently lost about £800 in destroyed goods so far.

    Thank you for your help @mumsy - sorry, affecting a lot of small businesses/start-ups I imagine.

    Link for Tucker so he can apply for a new job:-
    http://www.linkedin.com/jobs?viewJob...=jobs_share_fb
    Last edited by lpp; 15th February 2013 at 02:24 PM.

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