Slumberhouse: A Warning

[Trebor]

I just thought I should let you all know that there'll be a "fairly drastic" price increase very soon.

Second entry from the top:

https://twitter.com/slumberhouse

[sjg3839]

Thanks for the info.

[Scentsucker]

Ah. I wanted to sample Pear + Olive. Can't seem to find any UK stockists though.

[Oupavoc]

Thats too bad...I actually taught the price for a 50ml bottle was awesome!

[hednic]

Doesn't it seem like all houses are increasing their prices?

[Tonyprince]

I'm sorry to hear that, but it seemed inevitable due to the combination of expensive ingredients and all of the recent acclaim. My guess is that they'll all be $150 (the current price of Pear + Olive). We'll see.

[Tappio]

Weren't these quite a bit cheaper about a year ago? I seem to recall 30ml bottles being around 70 dollars or less... am I completely wrong?

Still, no surprise the price is rising, since it would get their products to fall in line, cost-wise, with most other niche lines.

[hedonist222]

So, do we start the boycott now?

[Trebor]

so, do we start the boycott now?

lmao!!!

[NYCBoomBoom]

Thanks for the warning. I was contemplating ordering a sampler pack and just did. Hopefully I'll be able to put in an order before the prices go up.

[mikeperez23]

Let the guy make a profit, he's making some good stuff.

[alfarom]

Let the guy make a profit, he's making some good stuff.

what ^^^^ he says! Josh is one of the most generous individuals around. Time for him to to make some profit.

[iivanita]

i have tested only 3 of their frags including Pear and olive and they smell so natural, that i was surprised .....last time i tried such natural perfumes was from profumo.it...and maybe remotely Lush....

i prefer they increase prices then decrease value of ingredients and leave prices the same, this way its playing an honest game...and its up to you to decide what you want

[kalli]

Doesn't it seem like all houses are increasing their prices?

ya, kinda lame.

[Beranium Chotato]

From this interview: http://notablescents.net/2012/04/27/...-slumberhouse/

RS: With that being said, one thing that I like about your line is that your price points are accessible; they are not completely off the wall obnoxious. How are you able to maintain these high quality expensive ingredients and keep your price point so accessible?

Josh Lobb: With Norne, I actually lost a tiny bit of money. I am not a businessman at all; I am really bad when it comes to crunching numbers. I created the fragrance and started selling it, out of curiosity I did the breakdown. I shouldn’t say that I lost money but I am pretty much breaking even on that one. It is too late now.

[Trebor]

I think some people are missing the point of this thread, which was meant to be a "Get 'em cheap while you still can" warning. Whether or not Josh wants to increase the prices is entirely up to him.

[Delly]

Rume, Vikt, and Grev all discontinued! I really enjoy my bottle of Rume (and Jeke & Norne).

On topic: As much as I love getting a good deal on a good fragrance, I'd support a price increase for Slumberhouse. Quality, unique scents. Great service.

I think I'll use this thread/twitter feed as an excuse to jump on a bottle of Pear + Olive tomorrow, which has been on my FBW list for a while.

[NYCBoomBoom]

Rume, Vikt, and Grev all discontinued!

That's interesting. When I was placing my order for samples they were all listed, but checking now, all gone. Shame.

[timdoeswell]

That's interesting. When I was placing my order for samples they were all listed, but checking now, all gone. Shame.

Email Slumberhouse directly - they don't have the three frags listed on the site but will invoice you for what you want.

They're only available in this manner.

[NYCBoomBoom]

Email Slumberhouse directly - they don't have the three frags listed on the site but will invoice you for what you want.

They're only available in this manner.

But is there a point in getting samples of something that's discontinued? I'm betting they'll send out what is currently available.

[timdoeswell]

Oh I meant full bottles are the ones available by private arrangement.

I got given samples of the three discontinued frags when I bought a bottle of Ore a few weeks ago.
I'm seriously considering getting a bottle of Vikt.

[NYCBoomBoom]

Oh I meant full bottles are the ones available by private arrangement.

I got given samples of the three discontinued frags when I bought a bottle of Ore a few weeks ago.
I'm seriously considering getting a bottle of Vikt.

Ah, I see. Well, I guess it'll depend on what I get sent. I'm sure something can be worked out one way or another.

[Birdboy48]

Very few frags listed on his site now, so I suspect some new ones are in the works.

Plus moving to a studio in Portland's artsy Pearl District ( rather than making the stuff at home, I think ) is a reasonable step up too.

I certainly can't blame him for seeing what the market will bear, price-wise. The amount of stir his things have caused warrants that, I feel.

Really great to see how things have moved ahead for him though, and I imagine its been a bit of a surprise for him as well. :-)

[Trebor]

He's only gone and done a Tauer!

Many of you have seen (or even own) Sova, which uses glass marbles to occupy 20ml of the space, resulting in 30ml of perfume. This method will now be extended to the rest of the line as well as all future releases. The 50ml option will no longer be available. The cost for this 30ml size will be $125. All Slumberhouse releases now come in bottles with etched glass instead of the older style labeled bottles.


But they are 'slightly' stronger...

These are all being concentrated slightly stronger than before, moving all of my releases from esprit de parfum to true parfum extrait. Norne and Sova were already quite strong, but both are even stronger. You’ll notice Jeke is now almost pitch black like Norne.


I don't know what to think about this...

And, in my efforts to fine-tune and improve even the most minuscule aspects, you’ll also notice I’m using a new atomizer/sprayer. It is truly a marvelous little piece of technology as far as atomizers go, and as such I’ve also decided to stop shipping my bottles with caps as I find them unnecessary.


And his explanation for the discontinuations....

If I’m not 100% into what I’m doing I immediately lose all interest. I like to constantly refine my ideas and throughout my life have always preferred having a very select and small collection of things to work on as opposed to juggling dozens of things at once. Jeke, one of my earliest creations, is a fine example of that...

And then there are the works which were created early on and, to be blunt, I’ve lost my love for — namely Rume, Grev and Vikt. I enjoy them all in their own way, but these three were created early on when I was still learning a lot about the art of creating a truly beautiful and unique scent. While I’ll never finish learning this art and I strive harder than anything to always educate myself and teach myself new things, I feel these three perfumes do not live up to the standards I’ve set for myself nor do I feel the quality of materials they are built upon are up to the level I’m looking to offer through Slumberhouse. So with that said, Rume, Grev and Vikt will no longer be available once the current stock has sold out. They have been removed from the website and are effectively discontinued.

I know this will not sit well with some, but it is what it is. It’s really hard for me to continue making and selling something that I feel my heart is no longer behind. I don’t view Slumberhouse as a “business” but as an outlet for my own creativity and these three have slowly become works that no longer speak to me. The common sentiment in the perfume world is that once a perfume is created you “leave it behind” and move on. You have made your statement and it is there for your clients to enjoy. My approach isn’t quite so detached.


http://slumber33.tumblr.com/

[OctaVariuM]

I have no real issues with this and still support him fully. I think most who love his fragrances should since he is just the one person who takes such pride in what he does. At least they are extraits now, so compared to Nassomato, they are still cheaper.

[NYCBoomBoom]

I haven't received any samples yet, but a price increase just means the quality will have to match up to the price point for me.

[alfarom]

the cap thing is "hmmm".....

[Trebor]

Personally, I don't find any of his creations FBW (with the possible exception of Ore) but I did respect what he was trying to do.

But what's becoming clear is how Josh's decisions are sounding progressively egocentric, with hardly any consideration towards his fans and customers:

1) I will reformulate a fragrance as and when I please, even if it means the fragrance is an improvement over the X units I've already shifted (well, according to my nose). It has nothing to do with costs, materials or restrictions - I'm still learning and I expect people to accept that. Think Creed!

2) I will discontinue a fragrance when I get bored with it (sorry, 'am not feeling it any more'), regardless of the fragrance's popularity.

3) I find caps unnecessary, even though some customers might not feel the same. Whatever!

4) In hindsight, my earlier fragrances were rubbish (even though, at the time, they were deemed worth selling and effectively put my name on the map). As for all those who are lamenting the phasing out of these creations, tough s**t...

5) My range of fragrances change so frequently that even Pierre Montale is confused.

6) I don’t view Slumberhouse as a 'business' but as an outlet for my own creativity - that's why I've just increased the price and decreased the juice by 20ml. Damn, that reminds me - I've got to give Andy a call...

[timdoeswell]

Personally, I don't find any of his creations FBW (with the possible exception of Ore) but I did respect what he was trying to do.

But what's becoming clear is how Josh's decisions are sounding progressively egocentric, with hardly any consideration towards his fans and customers:

1) I will reformulate a fragrance as and when I please, even if it means the fragrance is an improvement over the X units I've already shifted (well, according to my nose). It has nothing to do with costs, materials or restrictions - I'm still learning and I expect people to accept that. Think Creed!

2) I will discontinue a fragrance when I get bored with it (sorry, 'am not feeling it any more'), regardless of the fragrance's popularity.

3) I find caps unnecessary, even though some customers might not feel the same. Whatever!

4) In hindsight, my earlier fragrances were rubbish (even though, at the time, they were deemed worth selling and effectively put my name on the map). As for all those who are lamenting the phasing out of these creations, tough s**t...

5) My range of fragrances change so frequently that even Pierre Montale is confused.

6) I don’t view Slumberhouse as a 'business' but as an outlet for my own creativity - that's why I've just increased the price and decreased the juice by 20ml. Damn, that reminds me - I've got to give Andy a call...

While I agree with your point about the caps (I'm a bloke that loves a good fragrance bottle cap, and the ones on Slumberhouse bottles are very good) I've got to disagree with some of your points.
I'll try not to sound like a rabid Slumberhouse fanboy here, but please forgive me if I sound too much like a shill. I'll also try not to put words in your mouth, or Josh's.

Regarding the reformulation, are there any fragrance houses, independent or otherwise, that reformulate only after having gone through an extensive consultation process with their consumers?

Surely this approach to reformulation (and the regularly changing product lines) give credence to Josh's assertions that Slumberhouse is an outlet for his creativity. How boring would it be to create 6 scents that people like, never change them, and spend the rest of your days just mixing up the same formulas? I think a consistent, methodical approach like that would signal that he's treating it more like a business than a creative project. Besides, then we'd be criticising him for simply treading water.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for Josh to constantly expand his range of frags, while still having the older ones available for purchase, but again, if this is a side-project, he simply may not have the time.

As for the 'higher price, lower volume', I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the old and new formulations. If the strength and longevity are dramatically increased, then there's no harm done, as I see it.
I must say I don't really dig the marbles in the bottle thing, though.

Concerning the discontinuation of his fragrances, at least Josh has the decency to tell us (twitter, mailing list, website) that they're being discontinued, thus giving people a chance to stock up on the fragrances they love. Who else does that? Certainly no mainstream perfumer does - we rely on word of mouth, stock levels at department stores, and speculation from disinterested SAs. Similarly with reformulations - the companies swear that the fragrances haven't been reformulated, so we jump on here and swear that they have been.

Yes, we consumers are indeed vital to Slumberhouse's life as a perfumery, but not to the point where we should be able to totally dictate what Josh does.
There is a delicate balance between having power as consumers, and being grateful that Josh is putting out the fragrances he is.

We shouldn't kiss his @ss in deference and reverence* and be happy with whatever he does, but simultaneously we shouldn't presume that his "fans and customers" have become partners in the business.

May I suggest raising your concerns with Josh directly? He may give you some inside info on new or rereleased fragrances, or at least give you his reasons for what he does.

*my post may sound like I'm doing just that, however :S

[Trebor]

While I agree with your point about the caps (I'm a bloke that loves a good fragrance bottle cap, and the ones on Slumberhouse bottles are very good) I've got to disagree with some of your points.
I'll try not to sound like a rabid Slumberhouse fanboy here, but please forgive me if I sound too much like a shill. I'll also try not to put words in your mouth, or Josh's.

Regarding the reformulation, are there any fragrance houses, independent or otherwise, that reformulate only after having gone through an extensive consultation process with their consumers?

Surely this approach to reformulation (and the regularly changing product lines) give credence to Josh's assertions that Slumberhouse is an outlet for his creativity. How boring would it be to create 6 scents that people like, never change them, and spend the rest of your days just mixing up the same formulas? I think a consistent, methodical approach like that would signal that he's treating it more like a business than a creative project. Besides, then we'd be criticising him for simply treading water.

Obviously the ideal situation would be for Josh to constantly expand his range of frags, while still having the older ones available for purchase, but again, if this is a side-project, he simply may not have the time.

As for the 'higher price, lower volume', I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the old and new formulations. If the strength and longevity are dramatically increased, then there's no harm done, as I see it.
I must say I don't really dig the marbles in the bottle thing, though.

Concerning the discontinuation of his fragrances, at least Josh has the decency to tell us (twitter, mailing list, website) that they're being discontinued, thus giving people a chance to stock up on the fragrances they love. Who else does that? Certainly no mainstream perfumer does - we rely on word of mouth, stock levels at department stores, and speculation from disinterested SAs. Similarly with reformulations - the companies swear that the fragrances haven't been reformulated, so we jump on here and swear that they have been.

Yes, we consumers are indeed vital to Slumberhouse's life as a perfumery, but not to the point where we should be able to totally dictate what Josh does.
There is a delicate balance between having power as consumers, and being grateful that Josh is putting out the fragrances he is.

We shouldn't kiss his @ss in deference and reverence* and be happy with whatever he does, but simultaneously we shouldn't presume that his "fans and customers" have become partners in the business.

May I suggest raising your concerns with Josh directly? He may give you some inside info on new or rereleased fragrances, or at least give you his reasons for what he does.

*my post may sound like I'm doing just that, however :S

With all due respect, I'm not going to waste my time dissecting your post. If you read my post properly, you would know that I have no personal interest in his fragrances. However, there are issues that should be raised and discussed.

I've noticed on these boards how reverence and sweeping issues under the carpet (oops! diplomacy) go hand in hand. I'm just voicing my opinions (opinions that probably others don't have the guts to openly mention) and have no need to discuss anything with Josh. He may be a one-man band but he's certainly not above criticism.

Just as how he's doing what he sees fit, I'm saying what I see fit...

[timdoeswell]

With all due respect, I'm not going to waste my time dissecting your post. If you read my post properly, you would know that I have no personal interest in his fragrances. However, there are issues that should be raised and discussed.

I've noticed on these boards how reverence and sweeping issues under the carpet (oops! diplomacy) go hand in hand. I'm just voicing my opinions (opinions that probably others don't have the guts to openly mention) and have no need to discuss anything with Josh. He may be a one-man band but he's certainly not above criticism.

Just as how he's doing what he sees fit, I'm saying what I see fit...

I believe I did read your posts properly - you began the thread by informing many people of the price rises, and maintained that you were merely bringing the price rises to our attention. I liked that you quoted Josh so extensively in one of your posts, so that people can be well-informed.

You then, as you say, raised a number of issues for discussion. Your post (#28) employed hyperbole and rhetoric that made it clear you were moving from objective informer to subjective critic. This is when I responded with my own post, to put forward a contrasting point of view to yours.
I'm not saying any or all of your points are without merit, only that I feel differently to you in regard to some of them.

Nobody is above criticism, I agree, but by failing to acknowledge any points I've raised (even dismissing them as ill-informed or ignorant, stating that I didn't read your posts properly) couldn't it be said that you're failing to facilitate the discussion you say you want?

I'm sorry that you feel that dissecting my response is a waste of your time - I know my post came across as overly-reverent, but like you said, nobody's perfect (not even Jacques Polge).
Consider it me playing devil's advocate if need be, but you pride yourself on voicing your opinion, and so I've voiced mine.

Just as you 'say what you see fit', I hope the same liberty is granted to the rest of us.

[Trebor]

I believe I did read your posts properly - you began the thread by informing many people of the price rises, and maintained that you were merely bringing the price rises to our attention. I liked that you quoted Josh so extensively in one of your posts, so that people can be well-informed.

And that was my original intention, regardless of my personal views. Let me rephrase what I said in my previous post: if you acknowledged what was stated in my post, you wouldn't be asking me to contact Josh for clarification.

You then, as you say, raised a number of issues for discussion. Your post (#28) employed hyperbole and rhetoric that made it clear you were moving from objective informer to subjective critic. This is when I responded with my own post, to put forward a contrasting point of view to yours.
I'm not saying any or all of your points are without merit, only that I feel differently to you in regard to some of them.

And his blog announcement was the catalyst for what followed. Is it that so difficult for you to grasp? So, you feel differently... *shrugs*

Hyperbole and rhetoric my ass!

Nobody is above criticism, I agree, but by failing to acknowledge any points I've raised (even dismissing them as ill-informed or ignorant, stating that I didn't read your posts properly) couldn't it be said that you're failing to facilitate the discussion you say you want?

Based on the way Josh operates, and what he's stated both in his blog announcement and interviews, I don't think I need anyone to tell me what to think. He's made himself pretty clear.

In a nutshell, I don't see why I should invest in a perfume house that is, essentially, selling draft versions of fragrances that haven't been fully realised. Finalising a composition and then later reformulating it is one thing, reformulating (or tweaking) each batch just because Josh simply feels the desire to do so doesn't generate much consumer confidence from where I'm standing.

While I admire his transparency, I don't agree with such a practice. With this kind of attitude, he'd probably be considered a hack elsewhere.

Just as you 'say what you see fit', I hope the same liberty is granted to the rest of us.

And you are most certainly correct but my opinion still stands. Is that a problem for you?

[dvdlpznyc]

I got this announcement during intermission of Thomas Ades' "Powder Her Face" and the combined events made me feel really, really gay!

- - - Updated - - -

I have yet to get my hands on anything by Slumberhouse. I purchased 6 samples a couple weeks ago, and am still waiting for them to arrive. I like that it is a one man operation, and after reading the large update by email newsletter subscription the other night, I can totally sympathize. It's a one man band. If he is not in love with making something, he would become a slave to his customers, since he literally does every aspect of the operation. It's like when a one-man-kitchen takes a dish off the menu, or changes it slightly -- it's not a slap in the face of the customers, it's just the way of the world. You received joy for what you paid for in the past, but unfortunately it cannot be available forever. Things get eliminated everywhere, sadly.

If his fragrances are high-quality, and everybody else but him is charging much higher prices, why doesn't he deserve to make a buck? Happy wife, happy husband, happy children, happy dog, happy cat, happy home. Rather than being happy for receiving high-quality products for a low price for awhile, it's almost unfair to expect that advantage to last forever. Everything fades.

I hate bottle caps, I like the bottom of the new bottles, I like the laser-etching of the new bottles, and I like the glass marbles!

[Trebor]

I got this announcement during intermission of Thomas Ades' "Powder Her Face" and the combined events made me feel really, really gay!

- - - Updated - - -

I have yet to get my hands on anything by Slumberhouse. I purchased 6 samples a couple weeks ago, and am still waiting for them to arrive. I like that it is a one man operation, and after reading the large update by email newsletter subscription the other night, I can totally sympathize. It's a one man band. If he is not in love with making something, he would become a slave to his customers, since he literally does every aspect of the operation. It's like when a one-man-kitchen takes a dish off the menu, or changes it slightly -- it's not a slap in the face of the customers, it's just the way of the world. You received joy for what you paid for in the past, but unfortunately it cannot be available forever. Things get eliminated everywhere, sadly.

If his fragrances are high-quality, and everybody else but him is charging much higher prices, why doesn't he deserve to make a buck? Happy wife, happy husband, happy children, happy dog, happy cat, happy home. Rather than being happy for receiving high-quality products for a low price for awhile, it's almost unfair to expect that advantage to last forever. Everything fades.

I hate bottle caps, I like the bottom of the new bottles, I like the laser-etching of the new bottles, and I like the glass marbles!

It's that kind of tact that makes me want to grab a sick bucket...

Never tried his fragrances? A strange statement coming from someone who professes not to have tried any Slumberhouse scents, thus making it impossible for them to be an ardent fan (or maybe not). The final sentence threw any credibility out the window, AFAIC.

My bulls**t detector is going into overdrive...

[Beranium Chotato]

In a nutshell, I don't see why I should invest in a perfume house that is, essentially, selling draft versions of fragrances that haven't been fully realised. Finalising a composition and then later reformulating it is one thing, reformulating (or tweaking) each batch just because Josh simply feels the desire to do so doesn't generate much consumer confidence from where I'm standing.

I think you've summed up very well why this line is not for you. Slumberhouse is not meant to inspire "consumer confidence." In fact, I would go as far as to say that a feeling of nothing-is-grounded and everything-is-changing fuels the entire concept. Sometimes you see people in an amusement park look at a ride and just know it will make them sick. This seems to be you looking at Slumberhouse from the outside. Ça suffit.

I have jumped on many times, and some of the most treasured bottles in my collection are ones that you are dismissing as "drafts." I don't see them as such. They are beautiful, ephemeral things that I grabbed hold of as they passed. Life is like this. I've made my peace with the fact that, esp. in the world of fragrance, nothing lasts forever.

If it's consumer rights and safety and constancy you want, I think you will only find frustration.

[OctaVariuM]

no comment.

[Birdboy48]

Let's see....We don't want to see frags ever change or be reformulated, and we don't want to see their prices go up.

Oh ! I know how to deal with those frustrations : Let's single out a little guy like Josh, who actually dares to be honest about these things, and have him be the one we dump on.

I mean really.

[Trebor]

Brian Chambers, OctaVariuM, Birdboy48... keep up the good work, boys!

[OctaVariuM]

no comment again

[Trebor]

Regarding the reformulation, are there any fragrance houses, independent or otherwise, that reformulate only after having gone through an extensive consultation process with their consumers?

But this is after such customers have already shelled out cash for a bottle. Besides, it's impossible for Josh to get feedback from every single individual who has sampled his fragrances, so that in itself is flawed.

Surely this approach to reformulation (and the regularly changing product lines) give credence to Josh's assertions that Slumberhouse is an outlet for his creativity. How boring would it be to create 6 scents that people like, never change them, and spend the rest of your days just mixing up the same formulas? I think a consistent, methodical approach like that would signal that he's treating it more like a business than a creative project. Besides, then we'd be criticising him for simply treading water.

Others manage by creating new fragrances...

Obviously the ideal situation would be for Josh to constantly expand his range of frags, while still having the older ones available for purchase, but again, if this is a side-project, he simply may not have the time.

And maybe he should have considered that beforehand.

As for the 'higher price, lower volume', I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the old and new formulations. If the strength and longevity are dramatically increased, then there's no harm done, as I see it.
I must say I don't really dig the marbles in the bottle thing, though.

As I stated before, Josh can price his fragrances however he wants. But I did find it amusing that he took a leaf out of Andy Tauer's book. That's all.

Concerning the discontinuation of his fragrances, at least Josh has the decency to tell us (twitter, mailing list, website) that they're being discontinued, thus giving people a chance to stock up on the fragrances they love. Who else does that? Certainly no mainstream perfumer does - we rely on word of mouth, stock levels at department stores, and speculation from disinterested SAs. Similarly with reformulations - the companies swear that the fragrances haven't been reformulated, so we jump on here and swear that they have been.

I agree but, compared to many other fragrance houses, his operations/distribution network is minute by comparison.

Yes, we consumers are indeed vital to Slumberhouse's life as a perfumery, but not to the point where we should be able to totally dictate what Josh does.
There is a delicate balance between having power as consumers, and being grateful that Josh is putting out the fragrances he is.

Where did the concept of dictatorship come from?! The problem stems from Josh's (seemingly) constant restlessness and a lack of consistency (over a reasonable period of time). Grateful? Not me. Besides, there are a myriad of fragrance houses to fill the void.

We shouldn't kiss his @ss in deference and reverence* and be happy with whatever he does, but simultaneously we shouldn't presume that his "fans and customers" have become partners in the business.

Now, your imagination is running away with you.

May I suggest raising your concerns with Josh directly? He may give you some inside info on new or rereleased fragrances, or at least give you his reasons for what he does.

I would, if I had any interest in his fragrances. Alas, I do not.

[timdoeswell]

Oh yeah, following them on Twitter allowed me to get bottles of both Ore and Vikt.

Rume is really growing on me, too, but not enough to overlook the acrid opening.

[Trebor]

I think you've summed up very well why this line is not for you. Slumberhouse is not meant to inspire "consumer confidence." In fact, I would go as far as to say that a feeling of nothing-is-grounded and everything-is-changing fuels the entire concept. Sometimes you see people in an amusement park look at a ride and just know it will make them sick. This seems to be you looking at Slumberhouse from the outside. Ça suffit.

Brian, I couldn't give a toss about 'concepts' - especially when my money's at stake. If you think 'concepts' legitimise Josh's business practices (no matter how transparent he strives to be) then you're mistaken. But, hey, that's your decision, right?

I have jumped on many times, and some of the most treasured bottles in my collection are ones that you are dismissing as "drafts." I don't see them as such. They are beautiful, ephemeral things that I grabbed hold of as they passed. Life is like this. I've made my peace with the fact that, esp. in the world of fragrance, nothing lasts forever.

And I'm very happy for you. You don't see them as drafts? Fine, that's your perception. Unfortunately, for you, my perception is the opposite.

If it's consumer rights and safety and constancy you want, I think you will only find frustration.

I think you're getting over-dramatic here. For me, consistency is the key - even if it's only for 2-3 years. I don't have the time nor inclination to keep abreast of what changes Josh has executed every few months.

[silentrich]

Think I'll take my money and buy Nasomatto instead. I was thinking about exploring this line, but the guy that runs it seems like he doesn't know what he's doing. I've heard the "It's a passion of mine and I'm not in it to make money" a million times over. Sounds like he's trying to justify paying extra for less and getting nothing but fluff in return. No thanks buddy!

[NYCBoomBoom]

I have yet to get my hands on anything by Slumberhouse. I purchased 6 samples a couple weeks ago, and am still waiting for them to arrive.

A couple weeks ago? How long does it actually take to get some samples? I placed an order last week...what kind of wait am I in for?

[Trebor]

1. He is not "reformulating" in the sense of the word most people use. All he is doing is improving each fragrance so that it is better than it was before. He is not lowering the amount of something, changing the concentration in a negative way, etc. like most reformulations. I've smelled multiple versions of the same fragrance, and let me tell you, the man knows what he is doing and each "reformulation" is seriously better than the last. He just wants people to enjoy the best possible fragrance, and if he knows he can improve it, he will.

So, why should I even invest in a bottle, if I want a Slumberhouse fragrance, knowing full well the next batch is going to be better? Surely, that defeats the object of enticing potential customers?

2. He holds the right to do whatever he wants. Don't you stop wearing a fragrance once you get a little tired of it? Plus, he is not "discontinuing" them as in they will never come back, more than likely they will just in small batches. None of those scents he discontinued sold well, and he wanted to make some new fragrances. You have to realize that he is just one person running the whole business, and stocking the incredibly expensive ingredients necessary to make those "discontinued" fragrances would make it nearly impossible for him to keep making new ones and turn a profit. Do you want him to fail?

That's not how he put it on his blog announcement. Maybe he should communicate his intentions more clearly? Furthermore you can't regard a perfumer being tired of producing a fragrance to a wearer who's bored of wearing a fragrance they purchased. Apples and oranges...

3. He already said he will include them if you ask him, and I'm pretty sure they will still be available no matter what he said before. He wasn't saying they were unnecessary, he was saying that the new sprayers don't really need them. Plus, if you had ever owned a Slumberhouse bottle, you would know the cap is tiny to begin with and serves no real purpose. He was trying to cut costs so that you could pay less. I guess that's a crappy thing for a person to do, huh?

Whether or not a fragrance has a cap doesn't bother me but it may bother others. Are you now saying that he never said, "I’ve also decided to stop shipping my bottles with caps as I find them unnecessary"?

4. He never said tough crap, you are just being mean. His "older" creations no longer exist and have not for a while. His oldest fragrance, Sova, has been changed enough to be new again...one of the only ones that has actually changed significantly. He is progressing as an artist. Picasso sold "crap" back when he was new, but once he got better, he sold better stuff. Singers and groups do this ALL THE TIME.

"So with that said, Rume, Grev and Vikt will no longer be available once the current stock has sold out. They have been removed from the website and are effectively discontinued."

I'm sorry but what you and Josh are saying don't correlate. As for Picasso, that's a terrible analogy. His earlier works were individual artistic statements with different names/titles (some of which weren't even intended for public consumption). Josh is evolving/changing/reformulating his fragrances but still using the same names. It wouldn't have been so bad if he added a suffix of some sort for the customers' benefit.

5. I have no idea what you are saying.

Well, you should. Josh's range has constantly changed over the last couple of years, which has been confusing to say the least. This may now be the first time his collection has 'stabilised'. And about time too. Not everyone discovers a fragrance house at exactly the same time.

6. He made the business a while ago as an extension of a clothing company, and at the time, it was just for him to have fun and experiment a bit with fragrances. Over time they split, and he started taking it more seriously. He sold stuff on Etsy just to gauge interest, and they sold well enough for him to open a store of his own online. I fail to see how you can say anything bad about a person following his passions. He is using it as an outlet, sure, but he still kept his top two sellers and most popular fragrances (Norne and Sova).

I'm not saying anything bad about him personally - I'm just saying I dislike his artisanal decisions.

By the way, it took him months to finally post this on the site, because of reactions like yours. He doesn't do it on a whim, he is being very professional about everything. Stop making assumptions.

What assumptions! LOL! This is all based on what Josh has stated (as proven in the points above). Either there's some serious discrepancies or Josh is failing to make himself very clear. By the way, you can't please everyone...

P.S: I tried to not sound like a fanboy or whatever, but I failed. I don't love everything he does, for sure, I just don't like when people disrespect someone I admire and respect. If you knew half of what I do about him, I guarantee you wouldn't have said half of that.

Yes, you have failed in that respect. You have also failed to separate his business decisions from the person that you personally know (and I don't recall making personal attacks at Josh - I just stated that I don't particularly like his unorthodox way of doing things).

Take a chill pill...

[Trebor]

Let's see....We don't want to see frags ever change or be reformulated, and we don't want to see their prices go up.

I don't recall ever saying that. But, then again, it's perfectly natural to twist people's words in order to win a disagreement, isn't it?

Oh ! I know how to deal with those frustrations : Let's single out a little guy like Josh, who actually dares to be honest about these things, and have him be the one we dump on.

Your imagination's playing tricks with you, but that's what happens when someone doesn't agree with something you feel so passionately about. Your problem... not mine.

Thanks! Keep up being condescending! Consider yourself ignored. I don't have time for children.

As for the matters in this thread, I'd urge those of you who are interested in the house to keep an eye on the blog and to sub to the mailing list ;P.

Wow! It was a sarcastic joke, based on the fact that you're all fan boys. Keep up the good work equated to keep defending Josh's name/concept/fragrances [delete whatever's non-applicable]. You really need to lighten up!

I'm certainly not being the child - it is you who is sulking. Maybe you should have unsubscribed from this thread instead of blocking me? That's what mature people do.

Now, I think you should straighten-up your knickers. It's not a pretty sight...

[OctaVariuM]

no comment again again. Hopefully a mod can just delete all of this.

[silentrich]

Hope you enjoy Nassomato. I guess they share some similarities, though Slumberhouse is much darker (save BA from Nas). I'd disagree that Josh doesn't know what he is doing, especially considering people like Brian Chambers, one of the best noses here thinks he does some amazing work. Still, maybe you'll come back when this all blows over. Best to you! At least you were nice.

Yeah, I've heard some really good things about his fragrances. His methods and reasoning seem odd, but if that's what he needs to do to stay in business then more power to him. I'll take your advice and check back later to see if he can live up to the expectations of an improved product.

[d4N13L]

I found the update to extrait de parfum a very good update, and, of course, the price would go up too.

BUT the discontinuation is almost incomprehensible. He dont like Rume anymore so we just go to fkng hell and its it?
And who love the fragrance, like me and 3 or 4 friends that ive sent a sample and bought a bottle?

I was so excited to get Rume even stronger, in extrait de parfum...
What a different way to run business, or non business with some higher profits now, or whatever...

[OctaVariuM]

no comment again again again

[NYCBoomBoom]

Depends really. It took him a week to get them to me, but with the holidays and the storm, it may be a little longer.

Well, hoping for the best then...

[Beranium Chotato]

Brian, I couldn't give a toss about 'concepts' - especially when my money's at stake. If you think 'concepts' legitimise Josh's business practices (no matter how transparent he strives to be) then you're mistaken. But, hey, that's your decision, right?

There comes a point when people have divergent views in any civilized discussion about fragrance that you have to "agree to disagree." That point passed about halfway through this thread. In response to whether Slumberhouse is legitimate or how "mistaken" I am, how could I possibly agree to something that would have deprived me of some of my favorite scents? Pear+Olive is possibly my favorite scent of all time. Your continued nattering on about how illegitimate and mistaken everyone else is goes well beyond making a decision for yourself and stating your point of view. Simply put, you are not the one who decides ultimately. Time and the general momentum of opinion will either hold up Slumberhouse or tear it down. In the meantime, while we're all sitting around having a discussion, what exactly is the point of posting over and over again not just your opinion but how wrong you think everyone else is? It's a bit...uncivilized.

For me, I don't love every change that happens in this line. My ideal tobacco scent was the second iteration of Jeke. I much prefer it over the third (and now fourth?) because it was drier and less honeyed. But that's life. I'm not entitled to get the same thing every time. This is a person who is running his business much as I expect he runs his life--in the moment. By the way, it is a perfectly legitimate concept to consider the business side of the house as much a part of the concept as the compositions. You don't have to like it, but it's legitimate. It reminds me of art collectives that formed in order to create works that existed separately from the name of any single artist/creator, which was a pretty radical (and for some disconcerting) re-thinking of the business of visual art. Again, you don't have to agree that it's successful but to declare the entire concept illegitimate is pretty high and mighty.

Either you're willing to go along for the ride or you're not. Simple as that.

- - - Updated - - -

This quote was removed at the request of the original poster.

You may know Josh "considerably well," but I would be careful about putting words in his mouth. I do not have any such knowledge, but I cringed when I read that he didn't post the announcement on the site because of reactions like Trebor's. I would be shocked if that were the case.

It is also perfectly legitimate for anyone to question the success of someone's business concept. It's not just about whether someone is passionate or not or whether they started on Etsy and that makes them sympathetic. In fact, really, why should I care about that at all? Either the juice speaks to me or it doesn't. And being a fan of this line requires a certain diligence so that something wonderful doesn't pass you by, so frankly the ante is upped in terms of how much I expect to be rewarded. On this matter, I have to say that I agree with Trebor. All these qualities that I'm sure makes Josh a great friend to you are not necessarily a rationale for why we should spend money on the scents. They have to stand on their own.

[OctaVariuM]

You're right. I'll delete everything I posted (which will still show up in quotes unfortunately) and stop mentioning him or what he says, or anything about any of his fragrances ever again. Lately I feel like I can't do anything right, and I'm wondering if this is even worth it anymore. Life sucks.

[Beranium Chotato]

You're right. I'll delete everything I posted (which will still show up in quotes unfortunately) and stop mentioning him or what he says, or anything about any of his fragrances ever again. Lately I feel like I can't do anything right, and I'm wondering if this is even worth it anymore. Life sucks.

It's not all that bad, and I think it's fine to continue posting about Slumberhouse. I recently was gifted a ridiculously nice bottle of an O'Driù scent as a thank you for hosting a little event here around one of their fragrances, and it left me in a quandary about whether I could continue posting on BN about O'Driù and be unbiased. I think I can, but I decided that I would just add a little disclaimer when necessary to indicate that I had accepted a gift. I think introducing your comments with a note that you are friends with the perfumer is sufficient to give everyone else the correct context for your remarks. It would be unfortunate not to hear your comments at all. I for one enjoy reading them.

[hednic]

Personally, I don't find any of his creations FBW

Nor do I.

[alfarom]

....

[dvdlpznyc]

i love the vehemence!

- - - Updated - - -

i am not claiming credibility. but i am allowed to have preferences. i do not like bottle caps, because it's another thing to have to juggle, and with a young puppy always at my heels, i hate the anxiety of dropping the bottle because i'm holding the cap... and i do think the aesthetic of the bottom of the new bottles is rather beautiful, as is the laser etching... irrespective of what's inside the bottles, which I've yet to smell...

[NYCBoomBoom]

Received my samples today. I think Josh sent along his entire line. Any ideas on which one(s) I should start with?

[OctaVariuM]

Received my samples today. I think Josh sent along his entire line. Any ideas on which one(s) I should start with?

It sort of depends on your style. Personally, I went in order of how they are presented on the main page of the website. However, if you got Sova, that would be a great starting point for you (as it was for me). I went on to Norne after that I think (bucking the aforementioned trend).

What did he send you? It varies (well, everyone gets the in production ones, but he will generally send extras).

[dvdlpznyc]

I got my samples yesterday. I tried one spray here, one spray there, one spray here, one spray there, and I couldn't sleep until just a couple hours before work. After a long night at the opera (PARSIFAL), somehow I couldn't even think of resting. I love the "carnal delight" inherent in the fragrances. It's almost simplistic, forcibly restrained, but unrelenting in respective obsessiveness.

And today -- during work, during lunch, during dinner, I've been huffing-and-puffing... I found myself growing closer and closer to Pear Olive, I found myself finding the intensity of Norne rather calming (not to mention spectacularly scintillating), and Sova is growing on me slowly but surely... The others will have to wait for awhile...