Thanks for the info.
Thread: Slumberhouse: A Warning
I just thought I should let you all know that there'll be a "fairly drastic" price increase very soon.
Second entry from the top:
Ah. I wanted to sample Pear + Olive. Can't seem to find any UK stockists though.
Doesn't it seem like all houses are increasing their prices?
I'm sorry to hear that, but it seemed inevitable due to the combination of expensive ingredients and all of the recent acclaim. My guess is that they'll all be $150 (the current price of Pear + Olive). We'll see.
Weren't these quite a bit cheaper about a year ago? I seem to recall 30ml bottles being around 70 dollars or less... am I completely wrong?
Still, no surprise the price is rising, since it would get their products to fall in line, cost-wise, with most other niche lines.
Thanks for the warning. I was contemplating ordering a sampler pack and just did. Hopefully I'll be able to put in an order before the prices go up.
Let the guy make a profit, he's making some good stuff.
"The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the "thinker." The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind.
You begin to awaken"
-- Eckhart Tolle
i have tested only 3 of their frags including Pear and olive and they smell so natural, that i was surprised .....last time i tried such natural perfumes was from profumo.it...and maybe remotely Lush....
i prefer they increase prices then decrease value of ingredients and leave prices the same, this way its playing an honest game...and its up to you to decide what you want
From this interview: http://notablescents.net/2012/04/27/...-slumberhouse/
RS: With that being said, one thing that I like about your line is that your price points are accessible; they are not completely off the wall obnoxious. How are you able to maintain these high quality expensive ingredients and keep your price point so accessible?
Josh Lobb: With Norne, I actually lost a tiny bit of money. I am not a businessman at all; I am really bad when it comes to crunching numbers. I created the fragrance and started selling it, out of curiosity I did the breakdown. I shouldn’t say that I lost money but I am pretty much breaking even on that one. It is too late now.
I think some people are missing the point of this thread, which was meant to be a "Get 'em cheap while you still can" warning. Whether or not Josh wants to increase the prices is entirely up to him.
Rume, Vikt, and Grev all discontinued! I really enjoy my bottle of Rume (and Jeke & Norne).
On topic: As much as I love getting a good deal on a good fragrance, I'd support a price increase for Slumberhouse. Quality, unique scents. Great service.
I think I'll use this thread/twitter feed as an excuse to jump on a bottle of Pear + Olive tomorrow, which has been on my FBW list for a while.
Oh I meant full bottles are the ones available by private arrangement.
I got given samples of the three discontinued frags when I bought a bottle of Ore a few weeks ago.
I'm seriously considering getting a bottle of Vikt.
Very few frags listed on his site now, so I suspect some new ones are in the works.
Plus moving to a studio in Portland's artsy Pearl District ( rather than making the stuff at home, I think ) is a reasonable step up too.
I certainly can't blame him for seeing what the market will bear, price-wise. The amount of stir his things have caused warrants that, I feel.
Really great to see how things have moved ahead for him though, and I imagine its been a bit of a surprise for him as well. :-)
He's only gone and done a Tauer!
Many of you have seen (or even own) Sova, which uses glass marbles to occupy 20ml of the space, resulting in 30ml of perfume. This method will now be extended to the rest of the line as well as all future releases. The 50ml option will no longer be available. The cost for this 30ml size will be $125. All Slumberhouse releases now come in bottles with etched glass instead of the older style labeled bottles.
But they are 'slightly' stronger...
These are all being concentrated slightly stronger than before, moving all of my releases from esprit de parfum to true parfum extrait. Norne and Sova were already quite strong, but both are even stronger. You’ll notice Jeke is now almost pitch black like Norne.
I don't know what to think about this...
And, in my efforts to fine-tune and improve even the most minuscule aspects, you’ll also notice I’m using a new atomizer/sprayer. It is truly a marvelous little piece of technology as far as atomizers go, and as such I’ve also decided to stop shipping my bottles with caps as I find them unnecessary.
And his explanation for the discontinuations....
If I’m not 100% into what I’m doing I immediately lose all interest. I like to constantly refine my ideas and throughout my life have always preferred having a very select and small collection of things to work on as opposed to juggling dozens of things at once. Jeke, one of my earliest creations, is a fine example of that...
And then there are the works which were created early on and, to be blunt, I’ve lost my love for — namely Rume, Grev and Vikt. I enjoy them all in their own way, but these three were created early on when I was still learning a lot about the art of creating a truly beautiful and unique scent. While I’ll never finish learning this art and I strive harder than anything to always educate myself and teach myself new things, I feel these three perfumes do not live up to the standards I’ve set for myself nor do I feel the quality of materials they are built upon are up to the level I’m looking to offer through Slumberhouse. So with that said, Rume, Grev and Vikt will no longer be available once the current stock has sold out. They have been removed from the website and are effectively discontinued.
I know this will not sit well with some, but it is what it is. It’s really hard for me to continue making and selling something that I feel my heart is no longer behind. I don’t view Slumberhouse as a “business” but as an outlet for my own creativity and these three have slowly become works that no longer speak to me. The common sentiment in the perfume world is that once a perfume is created you “leave it behind” and move on. You have made your statement and it is there for your clients to enjoy. My approach isn’t quite so detached.
I have no real issues with this and still support him fully. I think most who love his fragrances should since he is just the one person who takes such pride in what he does. At least they are extraits now, so compared to Nassomato, they are still cheaper.
I haven't received any samples yet, but a price increase just means the quality will have to match up to the price point for me.
the cap thing is "hmmm".....
Personally, I don't find any of his creations FBW (with the possible exception of Ore) but I did respect what he was trying to do.
But what's becoming clear is how Josh's decisions are sounding progressively egocentric, with hardly any consideration towards his fans and customers:
1) I will reformulate a fragrance as and when I please, even if it means the fragrance is an improvement over the X units I've already shifted (well, according to my nose). It has nothing to do with costs, materials or restrictions - I'm still learning and I expect people to accept that. Think Creed!
2) I will discontinue a fragrance when I get bored with it (sorry, 'am not feeling it any more'), regardless of the fragrance's popularity.
3) I find caps unnecessary, even though some customers might not feel the same. Whatever!
4) In hindsight, my earlier fragrances were rubbish (even though, at the time, they were deemed worth selling and effectively put my name on the map). As for all those who are lamenting the phasing out of these creations, tough s**t...
5) My range of fragrances change so frequently that even Pierre Montale is confused.
6) I don’t view Slumberhouse as a 'business' but as an outlet for my own creativity - that's why I've just increased the price and decreased the juice by 20ml. Damn, that reminds me - I've got to give Andy a call...
I'll try not to sound like a rabid Slumberhouse fanboy here, but please forgive me if I sound too much like a shill. I'll also try not to put words in your mouth, or Josh's.
Regarding the reformulation, are there any fragrance houses, independent or otherwise, that reformulate only after having gone through an extensive consultation process with their consumers?
Surely this approach to reformulation (and the regularly changing product lines) give credence to Josh's assertions that Slumberhouse is an outlet for his creativity. How boring would it be to create 6 scents that people like, never change them, and spend the rest of your days just mixing up the same formulas? I think a consistent, methodical approach like that would signal that he's treating it more like a business than a creative project. Besides, then we'd be criticising him for simply treading water.
Obviously the ideal situation would be for Josh to constantly expand his range of frags, while still having the older ones available for purchase, but again, if this is a side-project, he simply may not have the time.
As for the 'higher price, lower volume', I'd like to see a side-by-side comparison between the old and new formulations. If the strength and longevity are dramatically increased, then there's no harm done, as I see it.
I must say I don't really dig the marbles in the bottle thing, though.
Concerning the discontinuation of his fragrances, at least Josh has the decency to tell us (twitter, mailing list, website) that they're being discontinued, thus giving people a chance to stock up on the fragrances they love. Who else does that? Certainly no mainstream perfumer does - we rely on word of mouth, stock levels at department stores, and speculation from disinterested SAs. Similarly with reformulations - the companies swear that the fragrances haven't been reformulated, so we jump on here and swear that they have been.
Yes, we consumers are indeed vital to Slumberhouse's life as a perfumery, but not to the point where we should be able to totally dictate what Josh does.
There is a delicate balance between having power as consumers, and being grateful that Josh is putting out the fragrances he is.
We shouldn't kiss his @ss in deference and reverence* and be happy with whatever he does, but simultaneously we shouldn't presume that his "fans and customers" have become partners in the business.
May I suggest raising your concerns with Josh directly? He may give you some inside info on new or rereleased fragrances, or at least give you his reasons for what he does.
*my post may sound like I'm doing just that, however :S
I've noticed on these boards how reverence and sweeping issues under the carpet (oops! diplomacy) go hand in hand. I'm just voicing my opinions (opinions that probably others don't have the guts to openly mention) and have no need to discuss anything with Josh. He may be a one-man band but he's certainly not above criticism.
Just as how he's doing what he sees fit, I'm saying what I see fit...
You then, as you say, raised a number of issues for discussion. Your post (#28) employed hyperbole and rhetoric that made it clear you were moving from objective informer to subjective critic. This is when I responded with my own post, to put forward a contrasting point of view to yours.
I'm not saying any or all of your points are without merit, only that I feel differently to you in regard to some of them.
Nobody is above criticism, I agree, but by failing to acknowledge any points I've raised (even dismissing them as ill-informed or ignorant, stating that I didn't read your posts properly) couldn't it be said that you're failing to facilitate the discussion you say you want?
I'm sorry that you feel that dissecting my response is a waste of your time - I know my post came across as overly-reverent, but like you said, nobody's perfect (not even Jacques Polge).
Consider it me playing devil's advocate if need be, but you pride yourself on voicing your opinion, and so I've voiced mine.
Just as you 'say what you see fit', I hope the same liberty is granted to the rest of us.
Hyperbole and rhetoric my ass!
In a nutshell, I don't see why I should invest in a perfume house that is, essentially, selling draft versions of fragrances that haven't been fully realised. Finalising a composition and then later reformulating it is one thing, reformulating (or tweaking) each batch just because Josh simply feels the desire to do so doesn't generate much consumer confidence from where I'm standing.
While I admire his transparency, I don't agree with such a practice. With this kind of attitude, he'd probably be considered a hack elsewhere.
I got this announcement during intermission of Thomas Ades' "Powder Her Face" and the combined events made me feel really, really gay!
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I have yet to get my hands on anything by Slumberhouse. I purchased 6 samples a couple weeks ago, and am still waiting for them to arrive. I like that it is a one man operation, and after reading the large update by email newsletter subscription the other night, I can totally sympathize. It's a one man band. If he is not in love with making something, he would become a slave to his customers, since he literally does every aspect of the operation. It's like when a one-man-kitchen takes a dish off the menu, or changes it slightly -- it's not a slap in the face of the customers, it's just the way of the world. You received joy for what you paid for in the past, but unfortunately it cannot be available forever. Things get eliminated everywhere, sadly.
If his fragrances are high-quality, and everybody else but him is charging much higher prices, why doesn't he deserve to make a buck? Happy wife, happy husband, happy children, happy dog, happy cat, happy home. Rather than being happy for receiving high-quality products for a low price for awhile, it's almost unfair to expect that advantage to last forever. Everything fades.
I hate bottle caps, I like the bottom of the new bottles, I like the laser-etching of the new bottles, and I like the glass marbles!
Never tried his fragrances? A strange statement coming from someone who professes not to have tried any Slumberhouse scents, thus making it impossible for them to be an ardent fan (or maybe not). The final sentence threw any credibility out the window, AFAIC.
My bulls**t detector is going into overdrive...
I have jumped on many times, and some of the most treasured bottles in my collection are ones that you are dismissing as "drafts." I don't see them as such. They are beautiful, ephemeral things that I grabbed hold of as they passed. Life is like this. I've made my peace with the fact that, esp. in the world of fragrance, nothing lasts forever.
If it's consumer rights and safety and constancy you want, I think you will only find frustration.
Last edited by OctaVariuM; 18th February 2013 at 03:03 PM.
Let's see....We don't want to see frags ever change or be reformulated, and we don't want to see their prices go up.
Oh ! I know how to deal with those frustrations : Let's single out a little guy like Josh, who actually dares to be honest about these things, and have him be the one we dump on.
I mean really.
Brian Chambers, OctaVariuM, Birdboy48... keep up the good work, boys!
no comment again
Last edited by OctaVariuM; 18th February 2013 at 03:03 PM.
Oh yeah, following them on Twitter allowed me to get bottles of both Ore and Vikt.
Rume is really growing on me, too, but not enough to overlook the acrid opening.
Think I'll take my money and buy Nasomatto instead. I was thinking about exploring this line, but the guy that runs it seems like he doesn't know what he's doing. I've heard the "It's a passion of mine and I'm not in it to make money" a million times over. Sounds like he's trying to justify paying extra for less and getting nothing but fluff in return. No thanks buddy!
I'm sorry but what you and Josh are saying don't correlate. As for Picasso, that's a terrible analogy. His earlier works were individual artistic statements with different names/titles (some of which weren't even intended for public consumption). Josh is evolving/changing/reformulating his fragrances but still using the same names. It wouldn't have been so bad if he added a suffix of some sort for the customers' benefit.
Take a chill pill...
I'm certainly not being the child - it is you who is sulking. Maybe you should have unsubscribed from this thread instead of blocking me? That's what mature people do.
Now, I think you should straighten-up your knickers. It's not a pretty sight...
no comment again again. Hopefully a mod can just delete all of this.
Last edited by OctaVariuM; 18th February 2013 at 03:04 PM.
I found the update to extrait de parfum a very good update, and, of course, the price would go up too.
BUT the discontinuation is almost incomprehensible. He dont like Rume anymore so we just go to fkng hell and its it?
And who love the fragrance, like me and 3 or 4 friends that ive sent a sample and bought a bottle?
I was so excited to get Rume even stronger, in extrait de parfum...
What a different way to run business, or non business with some higher profits now, or whatever...
no comment again again again
Last edited by OctaVariuM; 18th February 2013 at 03:04 PM.
For me, I don't love every change that happens in this line. My ideal tobacco scent was the second iteration of Jeke. I much prefer it over the third (and now fourth?) because it was drier and less honeyed. But that's life. I'm not entitled to get the same thing every time. This is a person who is running his business much as I expect he runs his life--in the moment. By the way, it is a perfectly legitimate concept to consider the business side of the house as much a part of the concept as the compositions. You don't have to like it, but it's legitimate. It reminds me of art collectives that formed in order to create works that existed separately from the name of any single artist/creator, which was a pretty radical (and for some disconcerting) re-thinking of the business of visual art. Again, you don't have to agree that it's successful but to declare the entire concept illegitimate is pretty high and mighty.
Either you're willing to go along for the ride or you're not. Simple as that.
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It is also perfectly legitimate for anyone to question the success of someone's business concept. It's not just about whether someone is passionate or not or whether they started on Etsy and that makes them sympathetic. In fact, really, why should I care about that at all? Either the juice speaks to me or it doesn't. And being a fan of this line requires a certain diligence so that something wonderful doesn't pass you by, so frankly the ante is upped in terms of how much I expect to be rewarded. On this matter, I have to say that I agree with Trebor. All these qualities that I'm sure makes Josh a great friend to you are not necessarily a rationale for why we should spend money on the scents. They have to stand on their own.
Last edited by Beranium Chotato; 18th February 2013 at 03:21 PM.
You're right. I'll delete everything I posted (which will still show up in quotes unfortunately) and stop mentioning him or what he says, or anything about any of his fragrances ever again. Lately I feel like I can't do anything right, and I'm wondering if this is even worth it anymore. Life sucks.
i love the vehemence!
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i am not claiming credibility. but i am allowed to have preferences. i do not like bottle caps, because it's another thing to have to juggle, and with a young puppy always at my heels, i hate the anxiety of dropping the bottle because i'm holding the cap... and i do think the aesthetic of the bottom of the new bottles is rather beautiful, as is the laser etching... irrespective of what's inside the bottles, which I've yet to smell...
Received my samples today. I think Josh sent along his entire line. Any ideas on which one(s) I should start with?
What did he send you? It varies (well, everyone gets the in production ones, but he will generally send extras).
I got my samples yesterday. I tried one spray here, one spray there, one spray here, one spray there, and I couldn't sleep until just a couple hours before work. After a long night at the opera (PARSIFAL), somehow I couldn't even think of resting. I love the "carnal delight" inherent in the fragrances. It's almost simplistic, forcibly restrained, but unrelenting in respective obsessiveness.
And today -- during work, during lunch, during dinner, I've been huffing-and-puffing... I found myself growing closer and closer to Pear Olive, I found myself finding the intensity of Norne rather calming (not to mention spectacularly scintillating), and Sova is growing on me slowly but surely... The others will have to wait for awhile...