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  1. #1
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    Default What molecules can I pass on?

    Hi and TIA,
    I've been compiling a list of aroma molecules that may be great to have and, quite frankly, it's a daunting task at this point because I don't know which ones to grab. So I thought I'd ask an easier question...which of these molecules can I definitely pass on?

    Cetalox (F) (crystals)-15ml
    Grisalva-4 ml
    Javanol (G)-4ml
    Tabanon-4ml
    Bois Ambrene Forte (Amberwood forte)-15ml
    Cedryl Acetate a.k.a Cedrenyl Acetate (I)-15ml
    Cinnamic Aldehyde-15ml
    Datilat-15ml
    Damascone Beta-15ml
    Dihydro Ambrate (G)-15ml
    Dihydromyrcenol-15ml
    Dimethyl benzyl carbinol**-15ml
    Dimetol (G)**-15ml
    Ebanol (G)-15ml
    Elintaal a.k.a Acetaldehyde ethyl linalyl acetal-15ml
    Ethyl Maltol Liquid (10% PG)-15ml
    Florhydral (G)-15ml
    Habanolide-15ml
    Isobornyl acetate**-15ml
    soraldeine 70-15ml
    Kephalis-15ml
    Methyl Anthranilate Extra FCC-15ml
    Methyl Benzoate**-15ml
    Methyl cedryl ketone a.k.a Vertofix / Woodyflor-15ml
    Methyl Cyclo Pentenolone-15ml
    Methyl Ionone gamma 70-15ml
    Methyl Laitone 10% in DPG (G)-15ml
    Methyl Pamplemousse (G)**-15ml
    Myrac Aldehyde (I)-15ml
    Norlimbanol (Firmenich)-15ml
    Orriniff 25% IPM (I)-15ml
    Oxyoctaline Formate (G)-15ml
    Paradisamide (G)-15ml
    Pharaone 10%-15ml
    Precyclemone B (I)-15ml
    Pyralone - a.k.a Iso Butyl Quinoline (G)-15ml
    Vetiveryl acetate-15ml
    Ethyl vanillin-15ml
    Safraleine (G)-15ml
    Scentenal (G)-15ml
    Vertenex-15ml
    Isoraldeine 95-15ml
    Maltol (Crystals)-15ml
    Silvial (G)-15ml
    Stemone (G)-15ml
    Okoumal (G)-15ml
    Ultrazur (G)**-15ml
    Peonile (G)-15ml
    Velvione-15ml
    Ambrettolide-15ml
    Dihydro Ionone Beta (G)-15ml
    Nerolidol-15ml
    Linalool-15ml
    Black Agar (G)-15ml
    Kohinool (I)-15ml
    Cedramber-15ml
    Methyl Diantilis (G)-15ml
    Coumarin (crystalline powder)-15ml
    Hedione (methyl dihydrojasmonate)-15ml
    sobutavan-15ml
    Iso E Super (I)-80ml
    Ambrox DL-15ml
    Civet (Artificial)-15ml
    Castoreum Blend-15ml
    Celestolide (crystals) (I)-15ml
    Ethylene Brassylate-15ml
    Exaltolide 100% - crystalline solid-15ml
    Galaxolide 50% (IPM)-15ml
    Muscone (iso) - 50% IPM-15ml
    Tonalide a.k.a Fixolide (PFW) (granular - not liquid)-15ml
    Vanillin Crystals 10% PG-15ml
    Lilial a.k.a Lilestralis-15ml
    Lyral - Leerall-15ml
    Hydroxycitronellal-15ml
    Ionone alpha (Ionone Alpha White Coeur) (I)-15ml
    Ionone beta-15ml
    Geranyl Acetate-15ml
    Linalyl acetate**-15ml
    Calone (I)-15ml
    Floralozone (I)-15ml
    Helional (I)-15ml
    Hexenyl cis-3 Acetate**-15ml
    Javanol (G)-15ml
    Verymoss - Evernyl - Veramoss-15ml
    Aldehyde C-11 Enic same as undecylenic-15ml
    Aldehyde C-12 Lauric-15ml
    Aldehyde C-12 MNA-15ml
    Aldehyde C-14 PEACH-15ml
    Aldehyde C-16 STRAWBERRY-15ml
    Cyclamen aldehyde-15ml
    Phenyl Acetaldehyde Dimethyl Acetal (PADMA) - Viridine**-15ml

    Regards,
    Numberz

  2. #2
    Super Member jsparla's Avatar
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Hi Numberz,

    i think i have, or have worked with about 90% of the aroma chems you've listed.
    Not a single one of them is one my don't-by-them-anymore list.
    But, hey, i actually see possibilities and beauty in all aroma chems
    Think it really depends on what perfume creations you're after...

    Best,
    Jeroen.

    My formulation blog.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    I'm inclined to agree with Jeroen, they are all useful. However you don't necessarily need to get them all at once - I've recommended here which synthetics and naturals I think are the most useful to start with. Once you've got all of those and got used to using them, start on the rest of your list!

    BTW I would drop Cetalox and get Ambrofix instead as I've recommended elsewhere on this forum although both are good.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  4. #4
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Difficult to work through such a long list but from a first glance I don't think you need both Isoraldeines (which are different blends of the same molecules; Methyl Ionone). You don't need both Cetalox and Ambrox. DHM and Dimetol smell pretty similar (not identical, just similar) so you could possible drop Dimetol, and buy it later. Same with Maltol and Ethyl Maltol (Ethyl Maltol is stronger, but similar to Maltol).

  5. #5
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    I was thinking much the same as David, on his list of similar components, except I would probably drop the Dihydro Myrcenol, due to my hatred for it. But then also about Vanillin and Ethyl Vanillin.
    It sort of depends on if you like vanillin... I don't, so even though I have the ethyl vanillin, I've never used it.

    Chris' comment about the Cetalox is excellent as well. I tend to get everything, and look for the right place for it, but starting out, these recommendations are all excellent.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  6. #6
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Thank you very much for your replies.
    I may be showing what little I do know about things here but:

    Chris, does your list reflect YOUR personality and preferences or do you feel that most people would find this list of yours attractive as far as needed things go?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Hmm, good question!

    I guess it's a bit of both: the list is based on a shorter one that has been tried and tested on a lot of people, but inevitably my additions reflect my interests and experience. I'd say that was more true of the synthetics list than the naturals, which are closely based on the Turin recommendations.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Do you think I'm going in the wrong direction by focusing on synthetics?
    Is there a "synthetic crowd" vs a "natural crowd" situation out there? Or is there even such a thing?
    I'm reading a lot about the inconsistencies, high prices, restrictions in regards to naturals...and the fact that many naturals are downright nasty until they are "cleaned up".

    Then again, Gido seemed to have a good answer: "naturals for complexity, synthetics for power and projection".

    Where can I find some guidance regarding naturals? Good supplier in the USA?
    Does Luca Turin have a guide for naturals?

  9. #9
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Quote Originally Posted by numberz View Post
    Do you think I'm going in the wrong direction by focusing on synthetics?
    Is there a "synthetic crowd" vs a "natural crowd" situation out there? Or is there even such a thing?
    I'm reading a lot about the inconsistencies, high prices, restrictions in regards to naturals...and the fact that many naturals are downright nasty until they are "cleaned up".

    Then again, Gido seemed to have a good answer: "naturals for complexity, synthetics for power and projection".

    Where can I find some guidance regarding naturals? Good supplier in the USA?
    Does Luca Turin have a guide for naturals?

    Yes, there are certainly "Camps" of devotees for perfumery, All Natural, All Materials, and All Synthetics.

    In my mind, I fall into the all materials camp. To my thinking, All natural people are really selling a philosophy.
    And all Synthetics people are trying to build perfumes as cheaply as possible.

    I would modify Gido's synopsis, "naturals for rounding and complexity, and an ease of beauty, and then synthetics for cleanliness, abstraction, specificity, power, longevity, and projection, and access to animalic and endangered materials not easily or ethically used as compared with naturals".

    Where can you find guidance?
    there are a multitude of source to learn from, have you tried the Perfumers search page?
    http://www.perfumersearch.com/

    Suppliers are all over the place, use the search page to find them too, look on the menu on the left for suppliers of natural materials.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  10. #10
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Paul, thanks.
    I actually understood your synopsis

    I checked out your site...nice.
    You wrote: "And most all natural fragrances seem to last for but a few hours and then they are gone. PK Perfumes fragrances last all day with aplomb."

    So I'm assuming that the bottom line is that "all naturals" fade rather quickly but when aided by some synthetics, they actually, somehow retain the naturalness? Almost as if the synthetics were a "fixative"? Or rather akin to one using the mid-range and treble controls for their stereo?

  11. #11
    David Ruskin's Avatar
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    It is so much more simple. A Perfume can be defined as a mixture of chemicals that smell. Those chemicals are found in Essential Oils, in Absolutes and Concretes, and in synthetics. Use what is necessary to get the result you want. There is nothing "magic" about naturals, or synthetics. Any rule of thumb, seems never to be true. "All naturals fade rather quickly"-wrong! Patchouli, Oakmoss, Vetivert, Rose Absolute, all prove that is not true. The most important part of any perfumer's training involves a thorough understanding of the behaviour of all Raw Materials; individually and mixed with others.

  12. #12
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Sure, you have a fair understanding then. But it's not like there aren't natural materials that last longer, it's just that there are only a few, and that means that all natural fragrances will necessarily have just a few materials to pick from for longevity. This scenario ends up sometimes in the situation where they might smell the same/similar in the longer evaporation curve, when longevity is the path chosen for an all natural perfume.

    When longevity isn't the chosen path, many Natural Perfumers take the strategy to recommend that the customer take along the bottle to "Top-up" the fragrance, so that the odor will last all day, by re-application.

    This is not my path or choice.

    Edited to add:
    Oh, I see that David also responded... :-) before I got my response posted...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  13. #13
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    Default Re: What molecules can I pass on?

    Okay! So I shrunk my original list quite a bit, based on the recommendations of Chris but I vow to experiment with many more synthetics in the future.
    I will also heed the advice concerning the naturals and see what transpires.

    Thanks to all.

    By the way, I did add in some Javanol, I couldn't resist, lol.

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