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  1. #1

    Exclamation Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Today the Civil Aviation Authority has imposed a worldwide ban on international shipping of perfume, (INCLUDING SEA AND LAND TRANSPORTATION). It is still possible to send items such as perfume, (now classed as a hazardous material) but only through specialised carriers. The so called, "hazardous materials" will undergo scrutinisation before receiving the relevant special labelling and being given the go ahead. The problem is that these specialised carriers are very expensive to use because of all the controls involved, making it practically unviable.
    Sadly, this absurd new rule will not only spoil our fun, but also bring many fragrance companies to their knees and eventually ruin them.

    I am assuming that terrorist attempts to send parcel bombs through international post are the reason for this new implementation. It is a sad day indeed and the terrorists have won yet again.

    ......and I ask myself...... how long before we are no longer allowed to take perfume on flights, (in check in luggage) for the same reason ?
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Thanks for the info bro!

  3. #3

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Today the Civil Aviation Authority has imposed a worldwide ban on international shipping of perfume, (INCLUDING SEA AND LAND TRANSPORTATION). It is still possible to send items such as perfume, (now classed as a hazardous material) but only through specialised carriers. The so called, "hazardous materials" will undergo scrutinisation before receiving the relevant special labelling and being given the go ahead. The problem is that these specialised carriers are very expensive to use because of all the controls involved, making it practically unviable.
    Sadly, this absurd new rule will not only spoil our fun, but also bring many fragrance companies to their knees and eventually ruin them.

    I am assuming that terrorist attempts to send parcel bombs through international post are the reason for this new implementation. It is a sad day indeed and the terrorists have won yet again.

    ......and I ask myself...... how long before we are no longer allowed to take perfume on flights, (in check in luggage) for the same reason ?
    David,
    Thanks for the info!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Interesting and sad.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Just curious as to whether or not you can supply references? I can find nothing of such a ban, which is not to imply that it does not exist. What countries is it supposed to apply to? The term Civil Aviation Authority needs to be more specific, since there is no one world government. It really wouldn't surprise me if our liberties were being further restricted/eroded, and I am just curious to know to whom these restrictions will apply and by what specific authority they will be implemented/enforced. Thanks for any specifics you can add to the discussion, and thanks for informing everyone of the situation.

  6. #6
    Super Member chopwet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Today the Civil Aviation Authority has imposed a worldwide ban on international shipping of perfume, (INCLUDING SEA AND LAND TRANSPORTATION). It is still possible to send items such as perfume, (now classed as a hazardous material) but only through specialised carriers. The so called, "hazardous materials" will undergo scrutinisation before receiving the relevant special labelling and being given the go ahead. The problem is that these specialised carriers are very expensive to use because of all the controls involved, making it practically unviable.
    Sadly, this absurd new rule will not only spoil our fun, but also bring many fragrance companies to their knees and eventually ruin them.

    I am assuming that terrorist attempts to send parcel bombs through international post are the reason for this new implementation. It is a sad day indeed and the terrorists have won yet again.

    ......and I ask myself...... how long before we are no longer allowed to take perfume on flights, (in check in luggage) for the same reason ?
    Any citations? Where does this info come from? I can't quite understand how a Civil Aviation Authority could have jurisdiction over land and sea transportation. It doesn't make sense.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I just checked the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) website and could find no reference to any new carriage/shipping restrictions. I also checked my company's internal website (a large international airline) and found no news on any new restrictions. If anyone can find any hard evidence/declarations, please share them with us, as this is an interesting and important matter to all of us. Thanks.

  8. #8
    Super Member VintagePoison's Avatar
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I'm sure if terrorists tried to send bombs through USPS it would be on the news.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    That's it, we are going to have to establish cartels.

    We need to build up a basenotes network with people from the US and Europe who are taking trips overseas. Perfumes / splits can be arranged through these agents.

    They can try to keep us down, but WE WILL NOT BE DEFEATED!

  10. #10

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by SillageMonger View Post
    Just curious as to whether or not you can supply references? I can find nothing of such a ban, which is not to imply that it does not exist. What countries is it supposed to apply to? The term Civil Aviation Authority needs to be more specific, since there is no one world government. It really wouldn't surprise me if our liberties were being further restricted/eroded, and I am just curious to know to whom these restrictions will apply and by what specific authority they will be implemented/enforced. Thanks for any specifics you can add to the discussion, and thanks for informing everyone of the situation.
    I firstly phoned customer services for the Royal Mail in the UK, after being alarmed by a similar thread started by fellow member Georgio. The Royal Mail were very helpful and told me the ban had been implemented by the International Civil Aviation Authorities and told me to contact them for more details, which I did.
    As I said before, the ban is worldwide and also applies to land and sea transportation.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please see this article
    Post and Parcel
    "Royal mail revising ban on mailing perfume and aftershave"
    See within this article the paragraph entitled, "International".

    - - - Updated - - -

    International

    International outbound parcels will continue to face the restrictions imposed by the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO), while revised restrictions on international parcels will come into force on 14th January, 2013.

    This will include a new limit of 24% by volume for alcoholic products shipped abroad, although Royal Mail said it was hoping to persuade international regulators including the ICAO and the UPU to work on raising the 24% ABV limit. The earliest any changes could be made would be 2015, it said.

    Aerosols will continue to be prohibited from international parcels, as will nail varnish, perfumes and aftershaves, but when lithium batteries are contained within an electronic device, the revised rules will allow them to be sent internationally.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by SillageMonger View Post
    I just checked the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) website and could find no reference to any new carriage/shipping restrictions. I also checked my company's internal website (a large international airline) and found no news on any new restrictions. If anyone can find any hard evidence/declarations, please share them with us, as this is an interesting and important matter to all of us. Thanks.
    I have just pasted an article. Please read.
    Last edited by david; 14th February 2013 at 09:12 PM.
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    This already started on 14 January. It is apparently a stronger application of an already existing rule. And it's absolutely stupid. We'll have to wait until they see that perfumes are not dangerous (duh!), and in the meantime, they will destroy our beloved bottles with impunity like a cop destroying marijuana (or pretending that he does).
    Kurt smells like Teen Spirit

  12. #12

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by LloydLlewellyn View Post
    This already started on 14 January. It is apparently a stronger application of an already existing rule. And it's absolutely stupid. We'll have to wait until they see that perfumes are not dangerous (duh!), and in the meantime, they will destroy our beloved bottles with impunity like a cop destroying marijuana (or pretending that he does).
    Yes. The initial ban only affected private parcels containing perfume, but the newly introduced ban effective as from today affects all comercial seller's of perfumes.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I have been doing some more research on this new legislation. Today I phoned the UK press office for the ICAA and the guy there was very helpful. He told me that the reason why there is no direct information on their website is because the legislation was introduced by the U.P.U., (Universal Postal Union) which is a United Nations specialised agency for the postal sector.
    From what I gather this has a lot to do with american paranoia of terrorist attacks ~ rather like the obssesive paranoia they used to have of communists.
    Whatever the reason is behind these draconian measures,they will severely affect a lot of smaller businesses and ebay seller's on a global scale.
    It would be interesting to compare some prices that the big international carriers charge for shipping "declared" perfume.
    eg, 500gm perfume London to New York ~ vice versa etc. just to see how expensive it is. Perhaps some members could look into this and report back.
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    David - It appears that Ormond Jayne have made alternative arrangements, so they should know who is shipping.

    Royal Mail are advertising for a 'Senior Communications Manager' at the moment - on their Twitter feed & checks out on Linkedin, so not a hack!

    One Ebay business seller has apparently lost over Ł800 of scent so far & they are not advising them which packets have been destroyed unless posted by the 'International signed for' service. I have dealt with her & would do so again (if I could!).

    Ebay sent an unusual 'Customer Survey' out yesterday - if anyone else receives one, suggest they complete it pronto (very short, loads of room for comment) - they were not told either. I completed mine, showing the max. no. of complaints from others & also wrote that I had no intention of buying anything right now, that I felt that it was not within their remit to improve service, etc.!

    If they can apply pressure?
    Last edited by lpp; 15th February 2013 at 06:54 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I'm so surprised a press story hasn't been run on this yet. It may just be that they are having as much trouble finding out the full truths as we all are.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I'm so surprised a press story hasn't been run on this yet. It may just be that they are having as much trouble finding out the full truths as we all are.
    I think either
    1) Privatisation/sale price!!!!!!!
    2) Mali/actual threat received

    What do you think?

    p.s. I had a story about a vicar locked in a church one night by bolshie bellringers in the Nationals a few years ago, no problem, so it's not 4 the want of trying!
    Last edited by lpp; 15th February 2013 at 08:03 PM.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I posted this in a different thread yesterday, but will paste it here also. It is in regards to an Ormonde Jayne order I placed last weekend:




    I placed an order with Ormonde Jayne over the weekend. I sent them an email yesterday inquiring about the status and asking if they will be able to ship it to me due to the new regulations. I just received a response back from them. It seems they have a new and faster shipping method - once it gets implemented:

    ---------------
    Thank you for your recent order with Ormonde Jayne and thank you for
    getting in touch.


    Yes you are quite right, there are some new regulations regarding
    shipping perfume.


    Due to these new regulations governing the international shipping of
    perfume from the UK, Ormonde Jayne is under legal obligation to
    appoint a new provider for our international shipments. Our new
    service will significantly reduce our shipping times, meaning that we
    will now be able to ship to the whole of America and the rest of the
    world in under 48 hours. There will also be a full tracking service
    from our door to your door.
    Unfortunately this means that at the moment we are experiencing a
    delay of up to two weeks with our international deliveries while we
    transfer our services to the new provider. The Ormonde Jayne team is
    now in training on how to pack perfume for an International delivery
    by air and prepare the paperwork.
    -----------------

  17. #17

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Thanks - it is possible, but the price for non-contract shipping for us folks is prohibitive.
    Tried an online UPS shipping quote from my home to my Daughter's (about 50 miles U.K.) earlier & it was about Ł85 cheapest!
    R.M. are not licensed to carry hazardous goods & about to be privatised - maybe they don't want to buy a licence - from what I've seen the manuals & staff training courses are available now.
    http://www.labeline.com/store_uk/

    Mind you, from this week's corre with them, I suspect that they might have difficulty reading the stuff, let alone complying!
    Last edited by lpp; 15th February 2013 at 09:48 PM.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I think we will all need to send our frags on the same day and same shipment each week and just obtain a whole lorry going backwards and forwards. If we all donate a certain amount, then I expect we can afford one ourselves.

    Anyone know a good haulage company or preferably has a relative in the industry? We can have our own BN company we all own shares in.

    I've emailed one suitable company and will report back.
    Last edited by mumsy; 15th February 2013 at 08:39 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I think we will all need to send our frags on the same day and same shipment each week and just obtain a whole lorry going backwards and forwards. If we all donate a certain amount, then I expect we can afford one ourselves.

    Anyone know a good haulage company or preferably has a relative in the industry? We can have our own BN company we all own shares in.
    Don't know any, but Googled 'u.k. carriers flammable goods' earlier today & there are a few, a/c customers only 'though, some seem to have vans, some do groupage.
    Maybe the commuters amongst us could do swaps!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Where there is a will there is a way..... onwards and upwards.

    We can be legal and send perfume... just need a better method than shanks pony or floating messages in bottles to far shores....

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fedex hazardous materials have a clause in their PDF shipping guide

    Small Quantity Exceptions
    Hazardous materials that are less than 30 ml (1 ounce) may possibly be shipped as a small quantity. In order, to utilize the exception the package must be packaged and prepared according 49 CFR 173.4. Small quantities, when packaged and prepared under 49 CFR 173.4, do not require hazardous material shipping papers, certification forms, marking or labeling of the package. However, the outer package must be marked as “This package conforms to 49 CFR 173. 4.” Lithium batteries and cells are not eligible for this exception. The following requirements must be met:
    • Materials are packaged under 49 CFR 173.4 • Less than 1 oz. per inner container • Gross weight of the completed package can not to exceed 64 pounds. • Package must be marked with statement “This package conforms to 49 CFR
    173.4.” • No shipping papers required • No hazard labels or Identification markings


    We may be able to share some services as a BN groupage if we can arrange ourselves globally in a suitable fashion. Difficult but not impossible. May have to be drop off points and collection points within each country. Will not be a fast procedure at first, but may improve with time and practice.

    Shipping numbers here.
    Last edited by mumsy; 15th February 2013 at 09:05 PM.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Good to see a collaborative effort in the adversity. Best of luck.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Thank you!

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    jeezus...its an amazing story...so far it looks only UK post is behaving by the book, if this change came overnight, i never saw any rule beeing implemented before some kind of an accomodation period!! or WARNING with red letters!!!

    this all is so abrupt and more simmilar to terrorist attack!! , its illegal someone destroys you goods you payed them to ship it without them warning you of new rules!! its outrageous!

    either inteligence service has some indications of threat....or they are needing more money! why noone here in Croatia did not mention this new rule??(i am sure they will if they see extra money hehe)

    it makes some sense, if they dont allow bottles of water anymore it was really amazing they did not come up with that rule before about sending perfumes....and yeah esp for those from Muslim countries....but noone else is beeing so rigorous and fast in implementation then UK Royal Mail

  24. #24

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by iivanita View Post
    but noone else is beeing so rigorous and fast in implementation then UK Royal Mail
    Lol.... it's never happened before......

  25. #25

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Yes, Ivana, we would normally expect to have at the very least a house to house leaflet drop since it only costs them for the printing.
    USA seem to be similar, but better organised.

    My daughter told me a funny story - the people upstairs were flying to Switzerland & so worried that their scent would be destroyed that they sprayed it ALL on tissues to take with...she reckoned the whole building smelled like a whore's bedroom by the time they left!
    Can I say that?


    & repeatedly keep forgetting to mention reason no.3 for lack of Press interest:-
    3)Triple dip recession/lack of sympathy 4 buyers of 'luxury goods' !!!!!!!

    But Ebay stand to lose a great deal of income.

    Any Channel Tunnel commuters?
    Last edited by lpp; 15th February 2013 at 10:31 PM.

  26. #26

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Written new letter asking for more clarification to Mr G, so we will see.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Sorry to hear of your losses Palmbeach.

    @chopwet - we all lose.
    If the world was run by scent lovers we'd be too busy comparing frags to fight.

    My problem is that I understand the need to be able to identify hazardous goods - before the internet, there was far less movement of most things by post, so much less of an overall risk.

    I'm just unable to understand why we were not told - they didn't even tell Ebay it seems, then gave their staff & customers totally different regulations.
    That's what was initially so difficult the other day - trying to make them understand the seriousness of their error as they just refused to accept it.


    I agree that something will be done, but training all the various sectors of staff for compliance doesn't happen overnight & shipping licences can't be easy to obtain.

    So did they forget or just not bother to comply?

    (I was thinking about a competition - best reason for not telling the public the same as the staff
    - prize any bottle of scent in the world
    - oh, sorry, email with picture of it!)

    Come July, it should be sorted - we hope.
    Last edited by lpp; 16th February 2013 at 12:02 PM.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    I also feel for anyones losses and the unjustness of any people against others.

    The point is that whilst fragrance is a trifle compared. It is the sudden removal of civil liberty without warning that is the issue. It is important to uphold this right to have free choice, however trifling that particular right may be.

    If the CAA or the RM need to have hazardous good labelled, then that is just fine and no-one minds conforming to any set of new rules if they have good sense and a reason. Banning such things from the post so suddenly will not prevent such attacks but just anger the normal law abiding person enough to wish to disobey rules if not to actually do so. This is counterproductive in the long run.

    It is someones decision in the CAA to categorise ordinary perfumes in the 'dangerous goods' category that has caused the problem. The sheer fact that we can all see a trolley of so called 'dangerous goods' being wheeled down the aeroplane every time we travel only exacerbates this type of prohibition by comparison. One circumstance is OK because it makes a profit and another restricted or prevented because it doesn't. Can you imagine the industry losses if this practice were stopped as well. Every duty free at every airport be closed.... unthinkable, but possible if we allow this to go unchecked.

    It will certainly not be about public safety because if it was, it would have been upheld years ago alongside carrying your plastic bag with your liquids in. Something else is afoot and it will be to do with money and the future privatisation of the RM. Make the beast feeble so the price is low, and then jack it up again once purchased. That is surely what all this is about. We are not blind nor stupid.

    I can quite see that sending all sorts of mysterious fluids all around the world can be seen as problematic, so all you need are a strict set of guidelines in order to do so safely. No-one minds that. I wouldn't imagine anyone hell bent on destruction is going to send their goods by second class post anyway.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I also feel for anyones losses and the unjustness of any people against others.

    The point is that whilst fragrance is a trifle compared. It is the sudden removal of civil liberty without warning that is the issue. It is important to uphold this right to have free choice, however trifling that particular right may be.

    If the CAA or the RM need to have hazardous good labelled, then that is just fine and no-one minds conforming to any set of new rules if they have good sense and a reason. Banning such things from the post so suddenly will not prevent such attacks but just anger the normal law abiding person enough to wish to disobey rules if not to actually do so. This is counterproductive in the long run.

    It is someones decision in the CAA to categorise ordinary perfumes in the 'dangerous goods' category that has caused the problem. The sheer fact that we can all see a trolley of so called 'dangerous goods' being wheeled down the aeroplane every time we travel only exacerbates this type of prohibition by comparison. One circumstance is OK because it makes a profit and another restricted or prevented because it doesn't. Can you imagine the industry losses if this practice were stopped as well. Every duty free at every airport be closed.... unthinkable, but possible if we allow this to go unchecked.

    It will certainly not be about public safety because if it was, it would have been upheld years ago alongside carrying your plastic bag with your liquids in. Something else is afoot and it will be to do with money and the future privatisation of the RM. Make the beast feeble so the price is low, and then jack it up again once purchased. That is surely what all this is about. We are not blind nor stupid.

    I can quite see that sending all sorts of mysterious fluids all around the world can be seen as problematic, so all you need are a strict set of guidelines in order to do so safely. No-one minds that. I wouldn't imagine anyone hell bent on destruction is going to send their goods by second class post anyway.

    Well said.

  30. #30

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Although I have a couple of fragrances still to offload, my wardrobe is pretty much complete. While this brings into question sample orders, I knew that things would only get worse (hence my attempt to perfect my wardrobe over the last couple of years).

    I think the real question now is how severe things are going to get.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/276...=1#post2199612

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/307...=1#post2657009

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/314...=1#post2739978

  31. #31

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Although I have a couple of fragrances still to offload, my wardrobe is pretty much complete. While this brings into question sample orders, I knew that things would only get worse (hence my attempt to perfect my wardrobe over the last couple of years).

    I think the real question now is how severe things are going to get.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/276...=1#post2199612

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/307...=1#post2657009

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/314...=1#post2739978
    You were right all along...

  32. #32

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Although I have a couple of fragrances still to offload, my wardrobe is pretty much complete. While this brings into question sample orders, I knew that things would only get worse (hence my attempt to perfect my wardrobe over the last couple of years).

    I think the real question now is how severe things are going to get.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/276...=1#post2199612

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/307...=1#post2657009

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/314...=1#post2739978
    Thanks for sharing these links Trebor.
    It really shows how crazy things are becoming...in all aspects !!!
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    Best to keep politics/nation bashing out of the public discussion and restricted to PMs.
    I take your point, but it's kind of difficult when your discussing not being able to post fragrances because of yet another anti terrorism law that nobody asked for.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by martinijo View Post
    I take your point, but it's kind of difficult when your discussing not being able to post fragrances because of yet another anti terrorism law that nobody asked for.
    I think that it's more to do with globalised 'harmonisation' of regulations (due to increased global trade) which are way more difficult to fight than locally imposed ones.
    We are becoming increasingly regulated by people who have no real idea of the end results and probably don't even care.

    Can we even un-elect these guys?

    Good post Trebor - we'll all be making our own soon!

    & thanks mumsy - eagerly await the reply

  35. #35

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Sorry to hear of your losses Palmbeach.

    @chopwet - we all lose.
    If the world was run by scent lovers we'd be too busy comparing frags to fight.

    My problem is that I understand the need to be able to identify hazardous goods - before the internet, there was far less movement of most things by post, so much less of an overall risk.

    I'm just unable to understand why we were not told - they didn't even tell Ebay it seems, then gave their staff & customers totally different regulations.
    That's what was initially so difficult the other day - trying to make them understand the seriousness of their error as they just refused to accept it.


    I agree that something will be done, but training all the various sectors of staff for compliance doesn't happen overnight & shipping licences can't be easy to obtain.

    So did they forget or just not bother to comply?

    (I was thinking about a competition - best reason for not telling the public the same as the staff
    - prize any bottle of scent in the world
    - oh, sorry, email with picture of it!)

    Come July, it should be sorted - we hope.
    Sorry to be so pessimistic, but a statement has already been released saying that 2015 is the earliest that this enforcement can be reviewed......AND....safetey regulations very rarely get relaxed/reversed. One stellar example is the restriction of 100ml liquid allowed in hand baggage on flights. They have been talking for years now to relax this rule and allow passengers to take a litre of liquid on board. Nothing has happened. Nothing has changed.
    Also, please note ~ this enforcement also applies to LAND and SEA shipping.

    I would love Grant and his basenotes reporters to take this issue on board and conduct some interviews with these various bodies on the basenotes homepage/news. This is a huge issue that will affect us all.
    We, (basenotes members) need to start looking into "viable" cost effective ways/carriers for shipping fragrance, and start a new thread.
    Finally, yet again........ my worst fear is that as a "logical" next step, they will ban fragrances from being taken on aircraft ~ even in checked baggage.
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Sorry David, meant posting within the U.K., which doesn't help you at all!

    Does anybody know if the industry in general is doing anything in terms of lobbying?

  37. #37

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    It was a rhetorical question

  38. #38
    Super Member chopwet's Avatar
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    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    ...@chopwet - we all lose.
    If the world was run by scent lovers we'd be too busy comparing frags to fight...
    Sounds good to me. A nice smelling world with no fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    I also feel for anyones losses and the unjustness of any people against others.

    The point is that whilst fragrance is a trifle compared. It is the sudden removal of civil liberty without warning that is the issue. It is important to uphold this right to have free choice, however trifling that particular right may be.

    If the CAA or the RM need to have hazardous good labelled, then that is just fine and no-one minds conforming to any set of new rules if they have good sense and a reason. Banning such things from the post so suddenly will not prevent such attacks but just anger the normal law abiding person enough to wish to disobey rules if not to actually do so. This is counterproductive in the long run.

    It is someones decision in the CAA to categorise ordinary perfumes in the 'dangerous goods' category that has caused the problem. The sheer fact that we can all see a trolley of so called 'dangerous goods' being wheeled down the aeroplane every time we travel only exacerbates this type of prohibition by comparison. One circumstance is OK because it makes a profit and another restricted or prevented because it doesn't. Can you imagine the industry losses if this practice were stopped as well. Every duty free at every airport be closed.... unthinkable, but possible if we allow this to go unchecked.

    It will certainly not be about public safety because if it was, it would have been upheld years ago alongside carrying your plastic bag with your liquids in. Something else is afoot and it will be to do with money and the future privatisation of the RM. Make the beast feeble so the price is low, and then jack it up again once purchased. That is surely what all this is about. We are not blind nor stupid.

    I can quite see that sending all sorts of mysterious fluids all around the world can be seen as problematic, so all you need are a strict set of guidelines in order to do so safely. No-one minds that. I wouldn't imagine anyone hell bent on destruction is going to send their goods by second class post anyway.
    Very well said. It's scary what has been and is being done in the interests of our 'protection'.



    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    Best to keep politics/nation bashing out of the public discussion and restricted to PMs.
    I agree, nations need not be singled out because in the end everything is connected. I will refrain in future.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    chopwet, thanks for your posts and your support for me earlier.
    I have to say though, my comments were not vicious or anti~american. This seems to be becoming another issue of this global planet.
    Freedom of speech /opinion....and infringement of it.
    Holiday accommodation, (central apartments in Berlin and south of France) offered in exchange for fragrances. Please pm me.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Unfortunately, that is the issue.
    In the absence of any evidence that the Industry opposes it, I assume that the ban is unlikely to be altered in 2015.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    And this is what's currently going on in Australia:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=54717
    Last edited by Trebor; 17th February 2013 at 09:27 AM.

  42. #42

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    And this is what's currently going on in Australia:

    http://www.fragrantica.com/board/viewtopic.php?id=54717
    Globalisation rules

  43. #43

    Default Re: Februry 141h 2013 BLACK THURSDAY........no romance today.

    Despite the worthiness of this topic political threads/posts have not been allowed on Basenotes for a few years. As the point about shipping issues has been clearly made, it is time to lock this thread as it begs political comment.

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