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  1. #1

    Default Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    http://www.hermitageoils.com/cucumber-aldehyde-947
    http://www.hermitageoils.com/violet-leaf-absolute-643
    http://www.edenbotanicals.com/produc...-absolute.html

    I am starting to build a women's fragrance and during my research of ingredients I have noticed that these ingredients seem to add that special quality in women's fragrance? Am I right to believe this assumption? Each of these products also seem to have similar scents? Any advice would be great!!

    Thanks

  2. #2

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    All three are green smells. Cucumber Aldehyde (nonadienal) is very strong, and very expensive; and smells like Cucumber. Actually price is unimportant as it is effective at very low concentrations. Violet Leaf Absolute is a natural that smells, to me, of spinach. Also very expensive, and very dark i colour. Using this material will turn your fragrance green. Cassie Absolute smells like Mimosa, and is the weakest of the three.

    Personally I don't think thy smell at all alike (other than all being green).

    If you think that they add that special quality to your fragrances, then you are right in that assumption. Others may disagree, of course.

    Cucumber Aldehyde may be used at 0.1%, or even 0.01%, to give a watery green almost melon note. It is a Middle note, so last quite a while. Violet Absolute, also very strong, is a Base note material that is apparent throughout most of the life of the fragrance. If you want a sharp green effect then it will work well. Cassie Absolute is the weakest of the three; also a Base Note , it adds a soft, green floralicy to your fragrance.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Violet leaf is often added to floral fragrances to give more of a fresh/green/full/natural scent. It's fairly common, most perfumers either use it a lot, or not at all.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    A couple of things to add here:
    Cucumber aldehyde is also called violet leaf aldehyde, reflecting it's presence in that absolute. It is also present in the scent of violet flowers, that of carnations and in tiny traces in many other flower scents too.

    Violet Leaf and Cassie absolutes are naturals with many components, while cucumber aldehyde is a single molecule: very different beasts. Both naturals will add complexity to a fragrance - that may be a good thing or bad depending on what else is there and what you are seeking - but the aldehyde won't, it's very simple.

    Personally I don't use cassie much but I use both of the others frequently and find them both very versatile and different ingredients.
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  5. #5

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    I'm trying to extend the fresh/green aspect of Violet leaf into the base note, any ideas?
    Cucumber aldehyde disappears too quickly at the dilutions I'm working at.
    Thanks!

    I've seen a couple of aldehydes and alcohols on TGSC site, but I can't really be sure what to hunt for.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Parmanyl and Undecavertol are longer lasting than Nonadienal

  7. #7

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Hmm.. I was looking for something that can stay longer - together with the gamma Nonalactone.
    Maybe I'll try to crank the Violet leaf up.. Or go Galbanum.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Galbanum is far less persistent than Violet Leaf. Galbanum is very volatile; Violet Leaf absolute should hang around for a long time. No idea what you are trying to do Nizan, let's hope you do.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute


  10. #10

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    so what are you trying to say? David is wrong because there are long-lasting galbanum molecules available ?
    They all smell quite different from natural Galbanum or Undecatriene (closely related to Violettyne btw)

    Personally I think the "impurities" (odorless or not) contained in the absolutes also work as a natural fixative. There is no miracle molecule in it.

    gamma nonalactone... do you want to elaborate oily aspects this way? (the coconut-way)

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    No idea what you are trying to do Nizan, let's hope you do.
    I agree !

  11. #11

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying he was being cynical.
    I just like the way Cucumber aldehyde combines with gamma nonalactone (and other things I have in my base notes - GNL was just a specific example) , and want to extend it to the dry down. Not as confusing as suggested.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I just like the way Cucumber aldehyde combines with gamma nonalactone (and other things I have in my base notes - GNL was just a specific example) , and want to extend it to the dry down.
    yes, I already suggested two molecules for that purpose. There are some more, but most are not available in small amounts.
    By the way, the "Cucumber Aldehyde" (natural) sold by Perfumers Apprentice is NOT Nonadienal, but Nonenal.
    I haven't smelled the Nonenal, but I think it's less violet and more cucumber/aldehydic.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Ho, nice spot on the PA molecule. I never bothered to compare the CAS with what Hermitage are selling!
    Undecavertol doesn't last long enough. I will first try David's suggestion and crank up the Violet leaf. I'm not familiar with Parmanyl.
    Thanks!

  14. #14

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying he was being cynical.
    I just like the way Cucumber aldehyde combines with gamma nonalactone (and other things I have in my base notes - GNL was just a specific example) , and want to extend it to the dry down. Not as confusing as suggested.
    Nizan I am not being cynical in that I do not distrust your motives; I'm just wondering if you know what your motives are. Your scatter gun approach seems, to me, a not very effective way of working. But, as always, it is only my opinion; and, as always, my opinion is not in the least important.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by 'Timon View Post
    yes, I already suggested two molecules for that purpose. There are some more, but most are not available in small amounts.
    By the way, the "Cucumber Aldehyde" (natural) sold by Perfumers Apprentice is NOT Nonadienal, but Nonenal.
    I haven't smelled the Nonenal, but I think it's less violet and more cucumber/aldehydic.
    And not nearly as strong.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    And not nearly as strong.
    very true. Actually the enormous potency of 2,6-Nonadienal explains why it can be smelled relatively long, despite being rather volatile: Even if for example 99% has evaporated, the remaining 1% is still strong enough to be smelled.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Ho, nice spot on the PA molecule. I never bothered to compare the CAS with what Hermitage are selling!
    the price would be just too good.
    as the saying goes: There is no thing as a free Nonadienal...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Nizan I am not being cynical in that I do not distrust your motives; I'm just wondering if you know what your motives are. Your scatter gun approach seems, to me, a not very effective way of working. But, as always, it is only my opinion; and, as always, my opinion is not in the least important.
    I'm actuallu still working around Dune Pour Homme, trying to figure out the base notes. Same as I have been doing for over a year. I was stuck and came back to it after realizing some things.

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I'm actuallu still working around Dune Pour Homme, trying to figure out the base notes. Same as I have been doing for over a year. I was stuck and came back to it after realizing some things.
    I am just curious. What is your intention for 'working around' Dune Pour Homme? Paying homage, so to speak? ;-)

    My rule of thumb is if I am ever considering extending a note, I know to rule out any aldehyde. Aldehydes, are volatile by nature (save for some misnamed 'aldehydes' such as coconut and peach 'aldehyde'). Same goes with alcohols.

    Did you in fact mean galbanum resinoid? That is more a heart-base note from my experience, when used in conjunction with other materials. Perhaps you could look at a bit of mastic, being careful not to use too much as it can go bitter...

    Truth is, "fresh" and "green" are really hard to pull off in the base. I assume you have already explored stemone for the fig aspect of your 'inspiration.'

  20. #20

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    Working around the main notes I'm smelling there.. I'm not super careful on getting everything right, but I'm combining similar notes. Helps me manage big accords, since I find it hard to mix more than 5 materials. Btw, there the Violet leaf from the Reseda accord (probably) doesn't last to the dry down.
    By Galbanum I meant the various Galbanum notes, nothing specific. The dry down of Galabanum resinoid isn't very green to me (if I remember correctly), it's kind musky actually..
    As for Stemone - ofcourse, but I haven't gotten to the middle/top notes yet.

    Right now it seems hard to dose the Violet leaf abs so that it lasts to the dry down and doesn't over-dominate before. I guess I'll keep probing. Maybe Muguet related materials? hmm..

  21. #21

    Default Re: Cucumber Aldehyde Vs Violet Leaf absolute Vs Cassie Absolute

    In my experience Violet Leaf absolute is a Basenote and lasts for days on a smelling strip.

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