Shipping Perfume

[david]

I am hoping that any updates regarding new shipping regulations will be posted here.
I am interested to hear how the situation is in Spain, Germany, France, Italy etc., re sending perfumes internationaly by post.

Regardless of where you live, please let us all know here if you have had items confiscated.

It seems that the UK, US and Australia are adhering very strongly to the new regulations, whereas other countries are not taking it so seriously.

The spokesman I talked to from the International Civil Aviation Authorities told me that the issue of perfumes being classed as hazardous materials, (because of the high alcohol content) has been known and enforced for several years. He actually could not understand why the UK postal Service were now suddenly being so strict about it.
On the other hand he told me that the UK Postal Service, (Royal Mail) is fighting the new regulation, ( because they will now be losing a lot of revenue to other shipping firms.)
So, presumably the Univesal Postal Union is the body implementing this new rule.

Any new information any members can provide will be invauable to us all here on basenotes.
Please let us know the current situation in your country !
Thanks.

[chopwet]

I'm hoping that this doesn't affect mainland Europe, especially central and Western Europe! I'll find out soon enough, I'm going to buy something and have it sent from Italy.

[hednic]

I just received a large order from Bergamo, Italy two days ago delivered by DHL Express. Arrived in the States in two days - lightning fast. with no problems regarding customs. Cleared in one hour.

[david]

I just received a large order from Bergamo, Italy two days ago delivered by DHL Express. Arrived in the States in two days - lightning fast. with no problems regarding customs. Cleared in one hour.

Great to hear that ~ for your sake !
Thanks for letting us all know, seems that Italy is more relaxed on the issue.....business as usual, (thank god!)

[sjg3839]

There is going to be a real problem if this happens in the states.

[david]

There is going to be a real problem if this happens in the states.

I think, from what I have already heard from some US members ~ it is already happening there. Reports are coming back of people being grilled about the contents of their package and being told they can't send perfume with the US Post.

[döfä91]

In my country you may send and receive perfume via mail.

[voodoodanny]

I lost a new and sealed Etat Libre d'Orange fragrance that I was sending to another Basenotes user between the UK and USA. I was mightily annoyed. We're now being told that we can't even send perfumes domestically via the Royal Mail anymore - I really don't know what the hell we're supposed to do now! This is really going to harm the perfume trade in the UK and all but eradicate swaps and private sales!

[Andrè Moreau]

I wonder if you can send perfumes sealed in the envelopes, saying to officers: "it's body cream" or "beauty articles"....

[Matheau]

I don't understand why items with X amount of alcohol are suddenly being prohibited from being shipped abroad?

As far as I'm aware aircraft cargo aren't subjected to frequent high amounts of deliberate fire, how many planes have blown up as a result of there being fragrance on board?

I guess this means multinationals will be prohibited from shipping tens of thousands of alcohol based products too, or is it one rule for them and another for small retailers and individual sellers?

[sjg3839]

Making it hard for basenoters!

I think, from what I have already heard from some US members ~ it is already happening there. Reports are coming back of people being grilled about the contents of their package and being told they can't send perfume with the US Post.

[Possum-Pie]

In the USA it is hit-or-miss, My small post office has stated that they will not ship any perfume, cologne, etc internationally because of regulations...I live in a rural area, and they know me at the post office, they see my custom form stating "beauty products" and most workers look the other way, but the boss always asks me pointedly if it is liquid. I have quit sending overseas as she states that if it is found that I am sending "hazardous materials" I could be fined.

[voodoodanny]

I wonder if you can send perfumes sealed in the envelopes, saying to officers: "it's body cream" or "beauty articles"....

I told the Post Office employee it was "beauty products", she asked "is it perfume?" so I lied through my teeth and said no. That was enough to fool her, but for some reason it didn't fool the X-Ray machine that identified my package as containing prohibited goods on a routine scan.

[PalmBeach]

I think, from what I have already heard from some US members ~ it is already happening there. Reports are coming back of people being grilled about the contents of their package and being told they can't send perfume with the US Post.

Shipping within the US using the Postal Service is allowed for First Class Mail, since it travels by ground transport. Shipping Priority Mail or Express mail is not allowed, because it travels by air, but let's face it, just claim it as cosmetics, glassware or something benign and it goes.

Since all International Mail to and from the US, outside of North America, no matter the mailing method is prohibited, again, since it travels by air, but like domestic priority or express services, claim something other than perfume or liquid.

The problem will occur if it is going to happen, once it arrives in the destination country. From what I see right now, the UK and a couple of other EU countries are cracking down real hard.

[30 Roses]

USPS First Class goes by air unless it is marked "ground"-- or unless it is local mail, obviously.

Parcel Post has just been renamed Standard Post. That goes by ground.

[mumsy]

The trouble is the more everyone tells fibs about what's in the parcel, the more stringent the checks are going to get so we will be scuppering it for ourselves in the long run. There must be a legitimate way to carry on. I just don't know what it can be yet.

I'm presuming we can all still send oil based frags and solid perfumes with impunity. I have asked this amongst many other questions to the UK RM and am awaiting a reply.

If one of the current delivery systems with a global network already in place will consider carrying perfumes, then the whole lot can be transferred from the mail system. The postal services in all countries will all be almightily sorry to lose all our business.

[david]

I don't understand why items with X amount of alcohol are suddenly being prohibited from being shipped abroad?

As far as I'm aware aircraft cargo aren't subjected to frequent high amounts of deliberate fire, how many planes have blown up as a result of there being fragrance on board?

I guess this means multinationals will be prohibited from shipping tens of thousands of alcohol based products too, or is it one rule for them and another for small retailers and individual sellers?

Sadly, the big multinationals get a much, much better deal than the smaller fry. A company that ships 2000 bottles of gin per day will get a completely different shipping rate than a small online fragrance firm shipping 50 fragrances per day ~ and the poor, (smaller) ebay sellar with his 2 bottles per day does not stand a chance.
I have until now heard rediculous quotes from carriers concerning "hazardous" materials ie, perfumes. For the individual customer......$200 to ship a bottle of fragrance......just not viable.

[Possum-Pie]

The trouble is the more everyone tells fibs about what's in the parcel, the more stringent the checks are going to get so we will be scuppering it for ourselves in the long run. There must be a legitimate way to carry on. I just don't know what it can be yet.

I'm presuming we can all still send oil based frags and solid perfumes with impunity. I have asked this amongst many other questions to the UK RM and am awaiting a reply.

If one of the current delivery systems with a global network already in place will consider carrying perfumes, then the whole lot can be transferred from the mail system. The postal services in all countries will all be almightily sorry to lose all our business.

Unfortunately, I have heard several people who have had Amouage Attars confiscated, and there is NO alcohol in them. They are entirely oil, and it is unfair that they were "destroyed" by British customs...

[mumsy]

Unfortunately, I have heard several people who have had Amouage Attars confiscated, and there is NO alcohol in them. They are entirely oil, and it is unfair that they were "destroyed" by British customs...

I think they should send the persons responsible an invoice then. Oils are not considered flammable goods are they? On the UK list, it quite clearly states flammable liquids, perfume, aftershave and EDT... here.

[david]

The trouble is the more everyone tells fibs about what's in the parcel, the more stringent the checks are going to get so we will be scuppering it for ourselves in the long run. There must be a legitimate way to carry on. I just don't know what it can be yet.

I'm presuming we can all still send oil based frags and solid perfumes with impunity. I have asked this amongst many other questions to the UK RM and am awaiting a reply.

If one of the current delivery systems with a global network already in place will consider carrying perfumes, then the whole lot can be transferred from the mail system. The postal services in all countries will all be almightily sorry to lose all our business.

There are companies that will ship hazardous goods without any problem......but the cost for individuals is just not viable.
By evading the true contents, you are running the risk that it will be controlled, (at the very least) confiscated, or worse ~ you will receive a heavy fine, (in this particular case up to $25,000.)

[PalmBeach]

USPS First Class goes by air unless it is marked "ground"-- or unless it is local mail, obviously.

Parcel Post has just been renamed Standard Post. That goes by ground.

As far as I know, First Class mail will go by rail, same as UPS ground shipments depending on destination. I could be wrong, but this is what I have been told by several people I know in the postal service.

[Birdboy48]

Unfortunately I had an experience with international shipping that highlighted the fact that there actually could be problems with shipping frags by air.

Basically I got a *lot* of leakage from a large decant a fellow shipped to me. So he shipped to me a second time and there was even more leakage the second time. When I opened the second decant and screwed the sprayer off, there was literally not one single drop left inside. It had all leaked out. Or more to the point...been pushed out from inside.

The problem seemed to be changes in cabin pressure in air flights. The fluid itself does not expand and contract, but the air inside the bottle does, and if the sprayers are not what they could be, the expanding and contracting air inside basically pushes all the liquid out. Bottles that are full to the top have less air inside, and leakage is minimal, but bottles which a less full, and have a lot of air inside can pump all the fluid out, depending how many times the plane lands and takes off.

Having a bunch of alcohol vapors floating around in the cargo bay might not be something I'd be happy about. Not that one bottle of frag would cause that sort of problem, but if there were a bunch of packages with various other liquids leaking at the same time, I can see where it might cause some worry.

Sprayers that seal in ways that resist air pressure changes would seem to be the answer, as in my instance air seemed able to enter the bottle through the spray mechanism as external air pressures increased , and the fluid would then get pushed out by that same high-pressure air ( if the bottle was not sitting upright) as outer pressures decreased.

Good sprayers seem able to resist such changes, but crappy ones do indeed allow processes which will promote significant leakage. And increasingly so when there are large air spaces in the bottles.

[hednic]

Shipping Priority Mail or Express mail is not allowed, because it travels by air, but let's face it, just claim it as cosmetics, glassware or something benign and it goes.

Within the States in the last two weeks I have received 10 USPS Priority packages filled with fragrances from a variety of companies, Ebay individuals etc. with no problems whatsoever.

[badarun]

Looks like all other countries are joining the Canada bandwagon with rgds to shipping perfumes...Poor us
I lost an Amouage Gold 2 months back - confiscated and destroyed by Customs, luckily, the shipper agreed to send another and even more luckily, I recvd it without it being confiscated again!!!

[portugal]

myself i have 3 bad news to give regarding lost shippings:

1st shipping from cheapsmells.com (uk store) to Malta. Shipped out on the 25th january and never arrived >( in the meantime they simply cancelled all international shippings of perfumes

2nd feelunique.com - actually it was 2 items: 1 shampoo and 1 spray for her hair - shipped out on the 29th also never arrived

3rd case some perfumes from a seller in the US - item left USA on the 7th and never arrived.... usually would arrive within a week

so basically 3 out of 3 lost packages... hope you can be luckier than me

[LloydLlewellyn]

I just received some bottles of Arabic oils shipped from London to Belgium - no problem.
I guess it is hit-and-miss.

[portugal]

I just received some bottles of Arabic oils shipped from London to Belgium - no problem.
I guess it is hit-and-miss.

Hummm lucky you the thing is Oils dont have alcohol so maybe thats why it didnt get lost

[trex57]

I've been sending out packages overseas, the US and Taiwan. Everything arrived safely. I've received packages from all over the place(US, Europe and Taiwan) andeverything was fine.

[dougczar]

The problem seemed to be changes in cabin pressure in air flights. The fluid itself does not expand and contract, but the air inside the bottle does, and if the sprayers are not what they could be, the expanding and contracting air inside basically pushes all the liquid out. Bottles that are full to the top have less air inside, and leakage is minimal, but bottles which a less full, and have a lot of air inside can pump all the fluid out, depending how many times the plane lands and takes off.

Having a bunch of alcohol vapors floating around in the cargo bay might not be something I'd be happy about. Not that one bottle of frag would cause that sort of problem, but if there were a bunch of packages with various other liquids leaking at the same time, I can see where it might cause some worry.

I'm sure this is why you are allowed to carry a bottle with you on a flight, but you cannot send one. If it is in your possession, it will be in a pressurized cabin.

[LloydLlewellyn]

I'm sure this is why you are allowed to carry a bottle with you on a flight, but you cannot send one. If it is in your possession, it will be in a pressurized cabin.

Does checked baggage also travel in a pressurized compartment? Because you are allowed to put perfume inside your checked luggage...

[Diamondflame]

Notice how UK customs officers are smelling better these days...?

[lpp]

And, presumably, their partners!

[portugal]

myself i have 3 bad news to give regarding lost shippings:

1st shipping from cheapsmells.com (uk store) to Malta. Shipped out on the 25th january and never arrived >( in the meantime they simply cancelled all international shippings of perfumes

2nd feelunique.com - actually it was 2 items: 1 shampoo and 1 spray for her hair - shipped out on the 29th also never arrived

3rd case some perfumes from a seller in the US - item left USA on the 7th and never arrived.... usually would arrive within a week

so basically 3 out of 3 lost packages... hope you can be luckier than me

Hi just to give some good news... the package from feelunique.com with the shampoo and the spray for my gf finally arrived...

nevertheless the perfumes from cheapsmells.com and the one from the USA seller didnt arrive yet...

[sroreilly]

Hmmm... on the 8th I placed an order from Germany to the US. I have the tracking and they used DHL... should I be worried that it hasn't arrived yet? Also according to tracking it hasn't scanned into the US yet either...

[Sylver]

I have lost orders (and refunded) from cheapsmells.com and feelunique.com, both retailers from UK.

I just ordered on 11th February from fragrancedirect.co.uk and i was expecting another delivery failure. To my surprise, it has arrived yesterday. But with a different path, i see a label on the box from Hungarian Post-office, before arriving to my country. Never happened before and its not logic either, but it did arrive in several days, so it was not a wrong sending (that would of caused a high delay until reaching the destination). Perhaps they figured out some other way to send to Hungary and from there to different european countries, i dont know...; the bad part is that compared to other retailers, fragrancedirect offers a low selection of fragrances, even for designer brands.

[david]

Hmmm... on the 8th I placed an order from Germany to the US. I have the tracking and they used DHL... should I be worried that it hasn't arrived yet? Also according to tracking it hasn't scanned into the US yet either...

I wouldn't worry at this stage, but I would make inquiries.

I dug up an old basenotes thread, (I think it was from 2006 ?) regarding perfumes no longer being allowed to be shipped to US military bases worldwide.
This really makes me think that these new enforcements are very much to do with terrorist attempts to send bombs, (pehaps in liquid form) by disguising them as fragrance.

[hednic]

Hmmm... on the 8th I placed an order from Germany to the US. I have the tracking and they used DHL... should I be worried that it hasn't arrived yet? Also according to tracking it hasn't scanned into the US yet either...

I wouldn't worry but I'd be a bit concerned. I received an order as recently as Friday of last week from Italy from an Ebay member who used DHL Express and it arrived in two days passing through Belgium on the way to DHL's Cinncinati hub. Customs cleared in an hour according to the time log. I'm sure it's fine.

[PalmBeach]

Hmmm... on the 8th I placed an order from Germany to the US. I have the tracking and they used DHL... should I be worried that it hasn't arrived yet? Also according to tracking it hasn't scanned into the US yet either...

DHL Paket is absolutely awful. I placed an order with First in Fragrance on 12/10/12, shipped on 12/11/12 via DHL Paket (which is Deutsche Post). Package sat in Germany until 1/7/13. Once it finally arrived in the US, it took less than an hour to clear customs, but another three days before they finally handed off the package to USPS in Miami. Once USPS received the package, I had in two days.

Now, several packages shipped by Colissimo out of France, took three days to arrive in US and was delivered by USPS within 5 days of receipt in US.

[slider17]

i received two packages yesterday, one from France and the other from the US.
All good.

Maison Francis labelled their goods as "Press Kit", which i thought was a good idea.

I think atm its just the UK that are playing hard ball.

edit: just received another package today from France!
Damn! Heeley parfums really know how to make a beautiful sample box!

[Paul P]

I ordered Rive Gauche Pour Homme and Encre Noire from eBay - even though the seller and item was supposedly in California, the box came from Germany, and had the stickers attached as shown. i've never seen these stickers before. As an aside, I've never had any issues receiving perfumes, from Australia or overseas, and I sincerely hope that continues.

[rum]

Here we go again.... another fabulous way to run an otherwise superb industry into the ground.

[mumsy]

It's a conspiracy plot from the larger perfume houses to stop niche perfumers taking over the world.....

[portugal]

its good news to see that some of you have been receiving your packages...

[Marais]

I just received a parcel from Germany, labelled 'Priority' and sent via Deutsche Post (Luftpost). No evidence of customs tampering. Although not labelled as perfume.

[lpp]

http://www.basenotes.net/threads/324...rity-Shipments



& guys, not encouraging law-breaking in any way, but please remember that these pages may be viewed by anyone with an internet connection, so you may not be doing your suppliers any favours by naming them!

[SherpaPsy]

I am thinking perfume mules will start to pop up, I'd be happy to do it if I was travelling further than from Worcester to London and back once a week.

[Livingdead]

This is a bloody joke. Now it is no different from being back home in Malaysia where the customs and post offices are absolutely rubbish. How wrong for me to even think otherwise.

[lpp]

@ SherpaPsy - Hehe - 'perfume mules' .

[SherpaPsy]

@ SherpaPsy - Hehe - 'perfume mules' .

Its not so far out of the realm of possibility. I have a lot of expat friends from the US/UK and Canada in Puerto Vallarta, they are always getting things brought down to them.

[nelbert]

In the past few weeks I've sent samples to various countries in Europe, varying in size from 1-30mls, and the folks who've bothered to reply to me have said their samples arrived fine. There are a few Post Offices near me and I've found one where the staff dont bother asking me what's inside anymore...when they did I told them it was computer/usb sticks - its not like its being recorded/written down anywhere. Sonner or later I possibly will have a shipment stopped/refused or whatever.
Has something changed with planes recently or am I missing something coz it seems like business as usual and I'm sure it will quieten down soon. The delays to international mail if every single item of post is to be scrutinized will be horrific

[lpp]

Sorry, meant 2 post stats on the USPS thread.

- - - Updated - - -

Its not so far out of the realm of possibility. I have a lot of expat friends from the US/UK and Canada in Puerto Vallarta, they are always getting things brought down to them.

& don't forget the Channel Tunnel commuters.

[david]

Sorry, meant 2 post stats on the USPS thread.

- - - Updated - - -




& don't forget the Channel Tunnel commuters.

In future it will be known as the "Chanel" Tunnel.

[lpp]

In future it will be known as the "Chanel" Tunnel.

Hehe

[mumsy]

Is anyone here a computer boffin? What about volunteers all around the world who offer to do a short trip within their own area so we make our own perfume post like pass the parcel only really big time?

I often travel from Oxford to London for instance. An hours drive and could pass frags either way.

We would need to map out the whole world like that, almost like a blood supply except ours is frags. How we make sure everyone is honest though is another matter. It may have to be samples only or be tracked by an app on phones. All possible.

The penny post began like that.

[lpp]

If u gather the participants, then work out the sequence it should be fine!
So many people commute distances these days, inc. the Tunnel.

New thread?

Volunteers @ given points/agreed times 4 exchanges

Only problem could be rail/road delays/people needing to attend work/meetings, so no waiting.

& you'd need to really trust all concerned as one fail would break the chain.

[kbe]

My understanding is that First Class mail could travel by plane as well as truck or train. First class, parcel post or media mail is on a space available basis for air transit. If there is room with the priority mail and air mail other mail just maybe will be transported by air, if not it will be transported by surface. It's at the USPS discretion.

But....if you identify it at the post office at send-off and the postal worker marks it hazardous then it will NOT be sent via air even if the opportunity arises.

[CologneFan85]

Postal service is too paranoid this is stupid

[Paul P]

Postal service is too paranoid this is stupid

If I have understood correctly the things I've read, the various government postal services are not the problem. The various Aviation authorities are also not the problem. The real problem appears to be the Universal Postal Union, that seems to be pushing for this very strongly. The UPU is the worldwide UN "department" that controls the postal services (provided they are signatories to it, and most western countries are signatories). The UPU puts out a directive, and the signatories have to fall in line and obey. That's my understanding.

[voidvader]

I think (and expect) that nothing changes for the small buyers as us. I will notice the example of litium batteries that were strictly regulated few months ago. All the sellers from USA told me the rule was just for heavy importers. They can´t analise all small boxes, it´s not feasible. Maybe its also prudent declare the products as "beauty products".

[mumsy]

If I have understood correctly the things I've read, the various government postal services are not the problem. The various Aviation authorities are also not the problem. The real problem appears to be the Universal Postal Union, that seems to be pushing for this very strongly. The UPU is the worldwide UN "department" that controls the postal services (provided they are signatories to it, and most western countries are signatories). The UPU puts out a directive, and the signatories have to fall in line and obey. That's my understanding.

This is the real crux of the matter... where has this come from and why out of the blue and so fast? What has been the trigger for all this? Why no national publicity? It isn't just perfumes, but loads of things.

I was talking to an historic builders supplier yesterday who ships stuff around the world. He was unaware of anything at all and was horrified. They ship strippers and varnishes and paints... all sorts of things. This just isn't good for anyone. I'm sure we will find that the cause is a stupid pen pusher in a Union office who has no idea of the ramifications resulting the categorisation of this type of goods.

I think we needn't panic too much. They will soon be all out of a job with no parcels at all to deliver. Then there will be a union of no-one.

I have thought of a name for our private postal system and will think about a system if that is possible. It will be true snail mail but may improve as an answer emerges.

PPPP = prohibited perfume parcel post - operated by and for perfumistas.... method to come and any suggestions welcome on this thread.