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  1. #61

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    I was advised by 2 different post offices that frags could be shipped ground but not by air(priority).

  2. #62
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    @ Paul P - UPS have their own cargo planes, I think. Maybe others do too.

    If u buy from overseas, definitely best to check the carrier at present - some independent ones have 'hazardous goods' licences so can ship using own transport from start to finish. Generally, only large businesses will be using these as the price for 'contract' customers is reasonable, but not for private ones. Just because someone in the U.K. is an internet business doesn't mean they have sorted this out right now as we were given no notice.

    Sorry, don't know your regs - someone else may?

    Some larger U.K. sellers, such as Ormond Jayne, have already made arrangements.

    Sorry not to be more helpful - situation is still developing.

  3. #63

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by dampier View Post
    In accordance with international aviation regulations, the U.S. Postal Service will commence a public information campaign on Mar. 1 to remind postal customers that shipments of perfume and other alcohol-based cosmetics are hazardous and cannot be shipped through the U.S. mail.
    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    It is a TOTAL, (worldwide) ban and includes LAND and SEA shipping. ALL METHODS OF SHIPMENT.
    The enforcement came from the UNIVERSAL POSTAL UNION, not as some people think the Civil Aviation Authorities. This is not about perfumes/alcohol being carried on planes ~ it is about all forms of shipping perfumes/alcohol. The ban also includes lithium batteries and, (of all things!) nail varnish ???????..............
    This planet has become pathetic.
    The thread's title and people's interpretation seems to be off. Barclaydetolly's long post was more helpful. March first is just their information campaign, says nothing about enforcement. If they're going to be enforcing rules as strictly as they are right now, we'll all be fine.

    As to anyone believing it is illegal for USPS to open your package, that's also mistaken. Postal inspectors are authorized to open mail with on a warrant issued with a finding of probable cause.

    https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/faq.aspx

    As for what constitutes probable cause is a more ambiguous matter.

  4. #64
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    David,

    thanks for all your posts on this topic. I'd be keen to read some more on this. Can you provide actual URL's for the Universal Postal Union where this is discussed ? I've tried looking at their website, but can't find anything.

    Thanks
    Hi Paul,
    I got all of my information via the UK press office of the Civil Aviation Authorities. I phoned the press office, (you can google to find their number ~ or alternatively write to them) The guy I spoke to was very helpful and extremely knowledgable. He explained to me that this regulation has come from the UPU. He also told me that the International Civil Aviation Authorities do not like the regulation, ( I am assuming because aircraft make a lot of revenue from transporting packages) and that the UK postal service, (Royal Mail) are fighting the regulation for the same reason. The Royal Mail want the alcohol limit, currently at 24 percent, lifted, (obviously to be able to ship perfume).
    I really hope everyone investgates this issue and I think as many members as possible should contact the press on all levels including newspapers, radio and television.
    The Universal Postal Union has deliberately kept this very quiet...so as not to create a fuss.
    .....that's probably the reason you are not finding any direct information there.
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Totally agree - one of me contacting the press didn't really help!

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    @ Paul P - UPS have their own cargo planes, I think. Maybe others do too.

    If u buy from overseas, definitely best to check the carrier at present - some independent ones have 'hazardous goods' licences so can ship using own transport from start to finish. Generally, only large businesses will be using these as the price for 'contract' customers is reasonable, but not for private ones. Just because someone in the U.K. is an internet business doesn't mean they have sorted this out right now as we were given no notice.

    Sorry, don't know your regs - someone else may?

    Some larger U.K. sellers, such as Ormond Jayne, have already made arrangements.

    Sorry not to be more helpful - situation is still developing.

    Hey Lyn,

    thanks for that. Must be pretty late in the UK now.

    You are absolutely correct - I never would have imagined it, but UPS do have their own planes - UPS airlines - and after reading your post, I did a little research, and Fedex has their own fleet as well. So why are Fedex and USP not worried about shipping perfume ? Probably because they're sensible.

    Honestly, this whole situation represents safety measures taken to ridiculous extremes - who ever heard of a plane exploding because of cologne ?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Hi Paul,
    I got all of my information via the UK press office of the Civil Aviation Authorities. I phoned the press office, (you can google to find their number ~ or alternatively write to them) The guy I spoke to was very helpful and extremely knowledgable. He explained to me that this regulation has come from the UPU. He also told me that the International Civil Aviation Authorities do not like the regulation, ( I am assuming because aircraft make a lot of revenue from transporting packages) and that the UK postal service, (Royal Mail) are fighting the regulation for the same reason. The Royal Mail want the alcohol limit, currently at 24 percent, lifted, (obviously to be able to ship perfume).
    I really hope everyone investgates this issue and I think as many members as possible should contact the press on all levels including newspapers, radio and television.
    The Universal Postal Union has deliberately kept this very quiet...so as not to create a fuss.
    .....that's probably the reason you are not finding any direct information there.
    David,

    many thanks for getting back to me - appreciate your time. Let's hope this all gets sorted out in our favour soon.

    As an aside, how much would UPS or Fedex charge to ship one bottle of cologne ? $100 AUD ??
    Last edited by Paul P; 20th February 2013 at 12:36 AM.

  7. #67
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Paul,
    Nobody - see stats earlier!
    http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

    At present, shippers with 'hazardous goods' licences are o.k. as they've paid to train their staff to comply with the new regs.
    Unfortunately, they are few, hopefully others will follow.
    Yes, it's late, but I'm nocturnal

    Did a UPS quote about 50 miles, U.K., the other day & it was about £85 hazardous goods, private client.
    Contract clients way cheaper.
    Last edited by lpp; 20th February 2013 at 12:44 AM.

  8. #68
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul P View Post
    I apologise if my post on this sounds confused - it is because I myself am confused. I use Australia as an example, but what I write could be applied to all countries.

    If we assume that these measures will now be rigorously enforced, then as a private buyer, I cannot buy any fragrances from overseas, unless they are shipped by a private company like UPS or Fedex ? Is this correct ?

    I can still buy fragrances from sellers in Australia, as long as they adhere to the Australia Post policy for dangerous goods, which AFAICT, simply means transport by land only ?

    But Fedex and UPS don't have their own airlines, or their own shipping company - they must ship their fragrances on the same planes etc. that USPS / Royal Mail uses - is this right ? If so, then why can UPS / Fedex use this system and not USPS /Royal Mail etc.? Do UPS and others have special boxes that they use ? Do they wrap their fragrances in fire retardant blankets ? If so, why can't the government postal services also adopt these methods ?

    As an aside, I found this on eBay Australia, which was updated in Jan 2013.

    http://reviews.ebay.com.au/Perfumes-...00000001392191
    Paul, I think this has a lot to do with terrorists trying to send liquid bombs disguised as fragrances through the various shipping systems. Certainly the authorities cannot cope with controlling the multitude of parcels being sent, so their solution is to shift the whole thing to private sector specialist services that will control every single parcel that goes through their hands. I must add here that this is my individual theory. I have no definite evidence regarding WHY these enforcements have been put in place.
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Paul,
    Nobody - see stats earlier!
    http://planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm

    At present, shippers with 'hazardous goods' licences are o.k. as they've paid to train their staff to comply with the new regs.
    Unfortunately, they are few, hopefully others will follow.
    Yes, it's late, but I'm nocturnal

    Did a UPS quote about 50 miles, U.K., the other day & it was about £85 hazardous goods, private client.
    Contract clients way cheaper.
    thanks for that Lyn.

    I just did a mock calculation on UPS - from LA to Sydney, 1 pound weight, 10 x 10 x 5 inches size, $100 USD value - estimate is about $145 USD !!!!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Paul, I think this has a lot to do with terrorists trying to send liquid bombs disguised as fragrances through the various shipping systems. Certainly the authorities cannot cope with controlling the multitude of parcels being sent, so their solution is to shift the whole thing to private sector specialist services that will control every single parcel that goes through their hands. I must add here that this is my individual theory. I have no definite evidence regarding WHY these enforcements have been put in place.
    David, it does sound like a plausible theory to me. But really, who knows ?

  10. #70
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Shipping perfumes from the US to Canada is now a problem as ground shipments are no longer allowed. As everything is now by air any "used cosmetics" or other similar labels are now being met with specific questions from the postal clerks.

  11. #71

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    That's the govt for ya. Too many regulations..who knows what's next, lol, maybe they will be like the TSA. Lol, post office workers seem to be on break ALL the time at my p.o. Lol, a while back..there's this super long line that goes out the door. What do they do? All of them go to IHOP for bfast, no joke..the whole office leaves, everyone in the back and front leave, except for one lone person in front, who is, of course, slow. I was like, really? What job allows everyone to go to IHOP? Like didn't you just start your shift? lol. I was thinking, where are they going for lunch? Chilis? Does anyone ever work here? LOL. I come out and one of the ladies going to IHOP comes out dancing like Elaine from Seinfield, saying, "Goin to IHOP, ya!". I am like..um..I am sure everyone left in that long line is happy for ya. There's only one person usually cause someone is on break..or sometimes the whole office, lol. Oh, and they don't close till 5..but they lock the doors at 4:30? So, IHOP, plus breaks, lunch, early close..not a bad job! lol.
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  12. #72

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by kalli View Post
    That's the govt for ya. Too many regulations..who knows what's next, lol, maybe they will be like the TSA. Lol, post office workers seem to be on break ALL the time at my p.o. Lol, a while back..there's this super long line that goes out the door. What do they do? All of them go to IHOP for bfast, no joke..the whole office leaves, everyone in the back and front leave, except for one lone person in front, who is, of course, slow. I was like, really? What job allows everyone to go to IHOP? Like didn't you just start your shift? lol. I was thinking, where are they going for lunch? Chilis? Does anyone ever work here? LOL. I come out and one of the ladies going to IHOP comes out dancing like Elaine from Seinfield, saying, "Goin to IHOP, ya!". I am like..um..I am sure everyone left in that long line is happy for ya. There's only one person usually cause someone is on break..or sometimes the whole office, lol. Oh, and they don't close till 5..but they lock the doors at 4:30? So, IHOP, plus breaks, lunch, early close..not a bad job! lol.
    Can't blame them for being excited about IHOP. Seriously
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  13. #73
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by kalli View Post
    That's the govt for ya. Too many regulations..who knows what's next, lol, maybe they will be like the TSA. Lol, post office workers seem to be on break ALL the time at my p.o. Lol, a while back..there's this super long line that goes out the door. What do they do? All of them go to IHOP for bfast, no joke..the whole office leaves, everyone in the back and front leave, except for one lone person in front, who is, of course, slow. I was like, really? What job allows everyone to go to IHOP? Like didn't you just start your shift? lol. I was thinking, where are they going for lunch? Chilis? Does anyone ever work here? LOL. I come out and one of the ladies going to IHOP comes out dancing like Elaine from Seinfield, saying, "Goin to IHOP, ya!". I am like..um..I am sure everyone left in that long line is happy for ya. There's only one person usually cause someone is on break..or sometimes the whole office, lol. Oh, and they don't close till 5..but they lock the doors at 4:30? So, IHOP, plus breaks, lunch, early close..not a bad job! lol.
    Each person will of course have different stories / experiences - my personal experience with Australia Post has been great - over more than 30 years I've had to deal with them. And I could not fault any of them - the mailmen, the package delivery guys, the staff in dozens and dozens of post offices I've dealt with. Can't fault any of them. never lost a letter or package, staff generally helpful. Really, all great.

    From me - big up for the guys and gals at Australia Post.

  14. #74

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    By law they can't open your package and if they do it better be for a really good reason otherwise that $100 bottle of fragrance is going to turn into a $100,000 lawsuit.
    Which law is this? The reason why I ask, is because when I shipped textbooks via USPS Media Mail, the USPS employee would regularly tell me that they randomly open Media Mail shipments to ensure they're truly textbooks (and not some other item trying to pass through with the cheaper Media Mail rate). Various USPS employees would routinely tell me this when accepting Media Mail packages.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by null set View Post
    As to anyone believing it is illegal for USPS to open your package, that's also mistaken. Postal inspectors are authorized to open mail with on a warrant issued with a finding of probable cause.

    https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactUs/faq.aspx

    As for what constitutes probable cause is a more ambiguous matter.
    Yep, exactly my experience when I used to ship textbooks via USPS Media Mail.
    Last edited by CaliDude; 20th February 2013 at 03:18 AM.

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliDude View Post
    Which law is this? The reason why I ask, is because when I shipped textbooks via USPS Media Mail, the USPS employee would regularly tell me that they randomly open Media Mail shipments to ensure they're truly textbooks (and not some other item trying to pass through with the cheaper Media Mail rate). Various USPS employees would routinely tell me this when accepting Media Mail packages.
    It's the 4th amendment and the USPS is a government agency so they have to follow those laws. Who's to say that box they think is a fragrance isn't a letter with sensitive information such as SS#, birth dates, Credit card information, or things of a private nature. Now imagine having to explain to a lawyer how one of your employees used this information to buy pizza's for everyone at lunch. Same reason you never send cash in the mail.

  16. #76

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    what????? does this mean i wont be able to order my samples anymore???!!!??!?!?!

  17. #77

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    It's the 4th amendment and the USPS is a government agency so they have to follow those laws. Who's to say that box they think is a fragrance isn't a letter with sensitive information such as SS#, birth dates, Credit card information, or things of a private nature. Now imagine having to explain to a lawyer how one of your employees used this information to buy pizza's for everyone at lunch. Same reason you never send cash in the mail.
    I understand, but USPS employees have regularly told me that, per standard practice, they may open Media Mail packages to ensure the contents abide by the Media Male packaging rules (e.g. must be a text book). So not sure how they're able to skirt around the 4th amendment. If they do it for Media Mail, I'm sure they have some rule out there that will allow them to open other types of packages.

  18. #78
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliDude View Post
    I understand, but USPS employees have regularly told me that, per standard practice, they may open Media Mail packages to ensure the contents abide by the Media Male packaging rules (e.g. must be a text book). So not sure how they're able to skirt around the 4th amendment. If they do it for Media Mail, I'm sure they have some rule out there that will allow them to open other types of packages.
    With Media Mail they can, they've actually opened at least one of my packages. Not sure about other types of mail, but because media mail is so specific with what you can send (and will save you a lot of money if it's heavy books that you're sending), USPS probably expects abuse.

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBoomBoom View Post
    With Media Mail they can, they've actually opened at least one of my packages. Not sure about other types of mail, but because media mail is so specific with what you can send (and will save you a lot of money if it's heavy books that you're sending), USPS probably expects abuse.
    Yep that's it. It's because media mail specifies what kind of mail it is.

  20. #80

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by Grungevig View Post
    The most interesting situation to me is the ability (at present) to purchase postage online, including for flat-rate priority mail. This option altogether eliminates the need to visit the post office, talk to a clerk even a mail carrier, or answer any questions about the package's contents.
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  21. #81
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by stuigi View Post
    Shipping perfumes from the US to Canada is now a problem as ground shipments are no longer allowed. As everything is now by air any "used cosmetics" or other similar labels are now being met with specific questions from the postal clerks.
    Thanks for that!

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Clearly, if leakage was a big problem, instead of banning the shipping of perfumes, why not just make a requirement that special zip lock bags be used that would contain any leak?

    Shouldn't be that difficult. When I look at Ebay they have bags that you put your cameras in, so that you can shoot underwater.
    Cheers,
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  23. #83

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by CaliDude View Post
    I understand, but USPS employees have regularly told me that, per standard practice, they may open Media Mail packages to ensure the contents abide by the Media Male packaging rules (e.g. must be a text book). So not sure how they're able to skirt around the 4th amendment. If they do it for Media Mail, I'm sure they have some rule out there that will allow them to open other types of packages.
    I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but here is some information about the status in the United States. I'm not offering legal advice, but just saying you should realize a few things. None of this applies internationally, and I don't presume to know any of those rules.

    Without going into specifics (you could write a very lengthy law review article on the subject), suffice to say:

    1. Postal inspectors can open any piece of mail, media or not, upon probable cause without a warrant, if they believe that it contains a hazardous substance. And believe it or not there was a presidential directive a few years ago that indicated the feds believe even probable cause is unnecessary, and only reasonable suspicion or less may be required. If you think that's illegal, you're probably right -- but do you want to be the one to have to spend thousands of dollars to prove it, when the government has a very large team of lawyers who would be glad to argue that it's perfectly legal?

    2. As a matter of federal criminal law, Title 18 of the United States Code, Section 1716, provides that knowingly mailing a hazardous substance in violation of postal restrictions (which you are presumed to know) is a crime. And one of the restrictions is that you can't ship perfume by any means other than surface transportation. If a postal inspector decided to open a priority package you've sent, and if it contains perfume, will they prosecute you? Maybe the chance is one in a million, or one in ten million. But again, do you want to take that chance?

    3. Not giving legal advice here, just making sure everybody realizes the facts.
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  24. #84

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by barclaydetolly View Post
    I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but here is some information about the status in the United States. I'm not offering legal advice, but just saying you should realize a few things. None of this applies internationally, and I don't presume to know any of those rules.

    Without going into specifics (you could write a very lengthy law review article on the subject), suffice to say
    Thanks barclaydetolly. I agree. It has always been my understanding & experience that USPS can, pretty much, freely open up any package they want as long as they have suspicions.

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    2013 Universal Postal Union rules and regs can be found in this publication:

    http://www.upu.int/en/activities/par...st-manual.html
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Mailed out over 10 packages (fragrances) today and was asked the usual questions and as usual replied no.

  27. #87

    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by juanderer View Post
    But, unless I've missed something, the regulation is not new.
    I think you may be right, but USPS Publication 52, which contains revised guidelines for mailing restricted materials, was published in December 2012.
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    Mailed out over 10 packages (fragrances) today and was asked the usual questions and as usual replied no.
    So if any planes go down over the US in the coming day(s), we'll know who to blame?

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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Just had a letter saying I have breached sending regulations on hazardous materials. They very generously said they would take no action this time but have "disposed of the package accordingly" Thank you Royal fucking Mail, why couldn't'you have just sent my package back to me by land seeing as it hadn't even left the country? BAstards!,,
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    Default Re: USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBoomBoom View Post
    So if any planes go down over the US in the coming day(s), we'll know who to blame?
    You ever seen the movie Castaway with Tom Hanks? Yep, that was my doing. Knew I should have used bubblewrap.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by juanderer View Post
    But, unless I've missed something, the regulation is not new.
    It's not new it's just being reiterated.

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