USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments

[silentrich]

I think it's pretty obvious and it's been said many times on these boards that if your going to ship a fragrance you better be prepared to lie. If not then whatever happens is probably not going to be good. With this in mind you pretty much have chosen to make things hard on yourself by telling the truth. If you expect something different your in for a rude awakening. Rules are rules and very few of us are "special" enough to get away with breaking them. DON'T TELL THEM IT'S A FRAGRANCE!!!!!! No one cares about the sob stories if you don't listen. It's harsh, but that's the way it is. Wish it was different, but it's not.

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No need to be so quick with the "nightmare" comparisons. I shipped out a fragrance last week via USPS (disclosing what I was shipping), no problems were had and it arrived safe and sound a day earlier than expected!

I can verify that. Looks like you should have a priority package getting to you real soon. I think people just say these things for the sake of creating drama.

[NYCBoomBoom]

I can verify that. Looks like you should have a priority package getting to you real soon. I think people just say these things for the sake of creating drama.

Looking forward to it . I will say that I recently received By Kilian's Back to Black and it was also sent priority from the west coast. When it arrived (in a sealed box, etc.) what I assume was the pressurization of the flight had a minor impact on the bottle as there were a few drops of the fragrance around the cap (but the atomizer was not primed).

[teardrop]

I think it's pretty obvious and it's been said many times on these boards that if your going to ship a fragrance you better be prepared to lie. If not then whatever happens is probably not going to be good. With this in mind you pretty much have chosen to make things hard on yourself by telling the truth. If you expect something different your in for a rude awakening. Rules are rules and very few of us are "special" enough to get away with breaking them. DON'T TELL THEM IT'S A FRAGRANCE!!!!!! No one cares about the sob stories if you don't listen. It's harsh, but that's the way it is. Wish it was different, but it's not.

lf you have been reading this thread, you would know that here in the UK at least, some fragrances have been confiscated/destroyed after the senders were economical with the truth about what was in the packages. Even if the packages are not opened, they WILL be scanned & you WILL be found out. Advising people to lie is no longer a wise option.
Better to tell the truth & comply with the rules rather than risk losing valuable, rare items.

Whitefluffy, you were treated appallingly by ignorant people, & you have my sympathy. Perhaps it would be worth complaining to the company about their behaviour, as they clearly don't know what they're doing?

[Whitefluffy]

Thank you teardrop for your support, it means a lot! You are absolutely right - in this case I couldn't afford to lie. And I feel better now that it was accepted and shipped as a fragrance. As for complaining, I doubt it will do much good, I am just glad its shipped and over with.

barclaydetolly - Thanks for the info. I will call our local USPS and make sure that I won't be subjected to the same treatment there if I decide to ship another fragrance.

[Possum-Pie]

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I can verify that. Looks like you should have a priority package getting to you real soon. I think people just say these things for the sake of creating drama.

This is NOT a bunch of drama. My local small town post office began asking EVERY customer who posts a package, local or international if it is "perfume" They are refusing packages with fragrance in them. Seems they are more interested in getting into the business of selling passports now...I waited 15min while a postal worker took a families picture and filled out paper work for them to get passports.

[kalli]

"They ship dangerous stuff there, like guns."

Sorry but I lold at that..really? Omgosh. Going to guess she doesn't own any guns or perfume, haha.

Seriously, that's awful WF, UPS charges way too much to treat people like that!

[dougczar]

I experienced a similar thing with UPS - and this was months ago. When I confirmed that there was a bottle of fragrance inside, they refused to take it. Period.

USPS however, even with the new regulations, will gladly take my fragrance shipments - it's just that it needs to go ground. They did ask this last time how many I was shipping, which was a first (as if all fragrance bottles are the same size or something - It would seem more useful to know how many mls was inside, not how many bottles).

[DuNezDeBuzier]

... I think the new USPS policy says you have to ship individually -- no shipping two colognes in one box -- but I could be wrong, and frankly I'm too tired tonight to look it up.

If anyone knows, it would be great if you could fill us in about that issue.

I think the following provision currently applies. Straight from the current USPS Domestic Mail Manual:

UNDER SECTION 600 - Basic Standards for All Mailing Services
Subsection 601 - Mailability
10.0 Hazardous Materials

10.13.2 Flammable Liquid Mailability
Flammable liquid is prohibited in international mail. Flammable liquid with a flashpoint of 20°F (-7°C) or below is prohibited in domestic mail. Other flammable liquid is prohibited in domestic mail via air transportation but is permitted via surface transportation if the material can qualify as an ORM-D material (or after January 1, 2015, a consumer commodity material) and meet the following conditions as applicable:

a. The flashpoint is above 20°F (-7°C) but no more than 73°F (23°C); the liquid is in a metal primary receptacle not exceeding 1 quart, or in another type of primary receptacle not exceeding 1 pint, per mailpiece; enough cushioning surrounds the primary receptacle to absorb all potential leakage; the cushioning and primary receptacle are packed within a securely sealed secondary container that is placed within a strong outer shipping container; and each mailpiece is plainly and durably marked on the address side with “Surface Only” or “Surface Mail Only” and “ORM-D” immediately following or below the proper shipping name (or with a DOT square-on-point marking under 10.8b.).

b. The flashpoint is above 73°F (23°C) but less than 100°F (38°C); the liquid is in a metal primary receptacle not exceeding 1 gallon, or in another type of primary receptacle not exceeding 1 quart, per mailpiece; enough cushioning surrounds the primary receptacle to absorb all potential leakage; the cushioning and primary receptacle are placed within a securely sealed secondary container that is placed within a strong outer shipping container; and each mailpiece is plainly and durably marked on the address side with “Surface Only” or “Surface Mail Only” and “ORM-D” immediately following or below the proper shipping name (or with a DOT square-on-point marking under 10.8b.).

[Monsieur]

Received my 50ml TF Oud Wood, Aventus 60mlm and TF Tuscan Leather 30ml in the mail the other day,, costums slip had "soap" on it

US to France, no problems.. Nonetheless my father was grilled at the post office.

[Possum-Pie]

ALL SPECULATION ASIDE...The USPS cannot refuse to transport your EdT, EdP, or EdC via ground shipping IF it is properly packaged...Virtually all fragrances fall in the range of 141°F-200°F

"For surface or air transportation, if the flashpoint is above 141°F (60.5°C) but no more than 200°F (93°C); the liquid is in a primary receptacle not exceeding 1 gallon per mailpiece; enough cushioning surrounds the primary receptacle to absorb all potential leakage; the cushioning and primary receptacle are packed in a securely sealed secondary container that is placed within a strong outer shipping container; and each mailpiece is plainly and durably marked on the address side with "ORM‑D" or "ORM‑D AIR," as applicable, immediately following or below the proper shipping name. Mailable material sent via surface transportation must be marked on the address side as "Surface Only" or "Surface Mail Only." For air transportation, each mailpiece must bear a shipper's declaration for dangerous goods.

[barclaydetolly]

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I think it's pretty obvious and it's been said many times on these boards that if your going to ship a fragrance you better be prepared to lie. If not then whatever happens is probably not going to be good. With this in mind you pretty much have chosen to make things hard on yourself by telling the truth. If you expect something different your in for a rude awakening. Rules are rules and very few of us are "special" enough to get away with breaking them. DON'T TELL THEM IT'S A FRAGRANCE!!!!!! No one cares about the sob stories if you don't listen. It's harsh, but that's the way it is. Wish it was different, but it's not.

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I can verify that. Looks like you should have a priority package getting to you real soon. I think people just say these things for the sake of creating drama.

I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with this. I agree it's your choice to decide whether to lie and ship by air. I don't judge anybody for what they do. But please don't imply that everyone is recommending people lie and ship by air, or denigrate people that choose to follow the law. I follow the law and recently have not experienced any special problems, after initial glitches. It takes longer and isn't cheaper, but that's life; often government regulations are frustrating and stupid. Welcome to life in America.

And this is not the same as "going a mile over the speed limit," which is an analogy you've used in a prior post. Sorry. From a legal standpoint, what's the penalty if you speed? A fine of maybe two hundred dollars at most, with no lawyer involved? Well, if you ship perfume by air, you are breaking a federal law that can land you in jail for a year. And though federal sentences for a first offense are not usually the statutory maximum, you absolutely face possible jail time and absolutely will have to pay many thousands of dollars in legal fees in the admittedly unlikely event the government decides to make you the example, and will carry a federal criminal conviction with you for the rest of your life. And we all know that this is a hot issue for the postal service, with a new regulation, new training, and a public campaign to inform people about the new state of affairs. Do you know any federal prosecutors? Would it surprise you that sometimes federal prosecutors make decisions to prosecute to set examples, and do so especially for laws that are relatively new or are receiving a lot of publicity?

A better analogy would be: let's say your city decides to up the fine for speeding a mile over the limit to a year in jail. And let's say it then announces, very publicly, that the new law is on the books, and you'd better comply; and it puts up signs at the major highways reminding motorists about the new law. Ask yourself: are you still going to go a mile over a the speed limit? Your choice.

Look, chances are nobody will get caught and nobody will get prosecuted; I'm not stupid, and don't want to overstate this into a giant deal, or create drama. People break laws every day and never get into trouble, and it is probably overwhelmingly likely -- overwhelmingly -- that none of us will ever get caught, and if perfume is shipped by air, the government at most will just destroy or confiscate it if it's discovered, end of issue.

But it's foolish to close your eyes and say that there's no chance this will ever come back to haunt you. And I find it insulting to tell people that if they follow the law, they're stupid and shouldn't tell their "sob stories."

I'm not advising anyone what to do, just giving the facts. Me, I tell the truth and ship by ground.

[DuNezDeBuzier]

ALL SPECULATION ASIDE...The USPS cannot refuse to transport your EdT, EdP, or EdC via ground shipping IF it is properly packaged...Virtually all fragrances fall in the range of 141°F-200°F

"For surface or air transportation, if the flashpoint is above 141°F (60.5°C) but no more than 200°F (93°C); the liquid is in a primary receptacle not exceeding 1 gallon per mailpiece; enough cushioning surrounds the primary receptacle to absorb all potential leakage; the cushioning and primary receptacle are packed in a securely sealed secondary container that is placed within a strong outer shipping container; and each mailpiece is plainly and durably marked on the address side with "ORM‑D" or "ORM‑D AIR," as applicable, immediately following or below the proper shipping name. Mailable material sent via surface transportation must be marked on the address side as "Surface Only" or "Surface Mail Only." For air transportation, each mailpiece must bear a shipper's declaration for dangerous goods.

I disagree. What you cite is one of the USPS rules regarding combustible liquids. Rather, perfume is categorized as a flammable liquid. It is mostly ethanol. Ethanol has a flashpoint of around 70F. I stand by my post above.

[Possum-Pie]

I disagree. What you cite is one of the USPS rules regarding combustible liquids. Rather, perfume is categorized as a flammable liquid. It is mostly ethanol. Ethanol has a flashpoint of around 70F. I stand by my post above.

Then I guess we have to agree to disagree...My post office agreed that the above regulations applied to all perfumes and colognes. No frag. is pure ethanol so the flashpoint is higher than 68 degrees, and it puts it out of the "flammable" category and into the "combustible" category. It is all very arbitrarily enforced, and confusing

[lpp]

Welcome to our world
Classed as 'Flammable' over here.

[Jimmy1]

Although tough for individuals, businesses get around this by having a certification or permit, with their shipping personnel instructed to pack and ship fragrances in a particular manner.

[DuNezDeBuzier]

Then I guess we have to agree to disagree...My post office agreed that the above regulations applied to all perfumes and colognes. No frag. is pure ethanol so the flashpoint is higher than 68 degrees, and it puts it out of the "flammable" category and into the "combustible" category. It is all very arbitrarily enforced, and confusing

Right. Pure ethanol's flashpoint is around 62F. Most edt and edp perfume might be between 70-80% ethanol by volume. At that mix, the flashpoint is around 70-68F or so the table in wiki says. Nothing in the Hazardous Materials legislation materials I've been through lately has lead me to believe this is wrong.

[kbe]

[NewHaarlem]

Not everyone is a good liar.

[silentrich]

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I'm sorry, but I totally disagree with this. I agree it's your choice to decide whether to lie and ship by air. I don't judge anybody for what they do. But please don't imply that everyone is recommending people lie and ship by air, or denigrate people that choose to follow the law. I follow the law and recently have not experienced any special problems, after initial glitches. It takes longer and isn't cheaper, but that's life; often government regulations are frustrating and stupid. Welcome to life in America.

And this is not the same as "going a mile over the speed limit," which is an analogy you've used in a prior post. Sorry. From a legal standpoint, what's the penalty if you speed? A fine of maybe two hundred dollars at most, with no lawyer involved? Well, if you ship perfume by air, you are breaking a federal law that can land you in jail for a year. And though federal sentences for a first offense are not usually the statutory maximum, you absolutely face possible jail time and absolutely will have to pay many thousands of dollars in legal fees in the admittedly unlikely event the government decides to make you the example, and will carry a federal criminal conviction with you for the rest of your life. And we all know that this is a hot issue for the postal service, with a new regulation, new training, and a public campaign to inform people about the new state of affairs. Do you know any federal prosecutors? Would it surprise you that sometimes federal prosecutors make decisions to prosecute to set examples, and do so especially for laws that are relatively new or are receiving a lot of publicity?

A better analogy would be: let's say your city decides to up the fine for speeding a mile over the limit to a year in jail. And let's say it then announces, very publicly, that the new law is on the books, and you'd better comply; and it puts up signs at the major highways reminding motorists about the new law. Ask yourself: are you still going to go a mile over a the speed limit? Your choice.

Look, chances are nobody will get caught and nobody will get prosecuted; I'm not stupid, and don't want to overstate this into a giant deal, or create drama. People break laws every day and never get into trouble, and it is probably overwhelmingly likely -- overwhelmingly -- that none of us will ever get caught, and if perfume is shipped by air, the government at most will just destroy or confiscate it if it's discovered, end of issue.

But it's foolish to close your eyes and say that there's no chance this will ever come back to haunt you. And I find it insulting to tell people that if they follow the law, they're stupid and shouldn't tell their "sob stories."

I'm not advising anyone what to do, just giving the facts. Me, I tell the truth and ship by ground.

Good for you. I'm not paranoid and would think the chances of getting thrown in prison for shipping a fragrance would be the same chances of winning the lottery 10 times. Sorry you find it insulting that I don't cater to people that don't listen or refuse to believe that if they tell the truth in this matter that they'll get special treatment. I could care less what people think of my morale standards when it comes to something this petty.

[Oupavoc]

What about packages coming lets say from Canada to USA? What happens then?

[hednic]

I just received an express package (colissimo) from France yesterday. It was held at customs for two days and then sent Express Mail with USPS from Chicago to the east coast with no problems whatsoever, so apparently perfume is still being allowed to travel Express Mail in the air with USPS.

[rubegon]

What about packages coming lets say from Canada to USA? What happens then?

I just received a package from Canada - a Vetiver gift set - and it had a packing list pasted to the outside of the box. The sender was a company with "perfume" in the name. It went through without issues and was delivered to my house quickly

[mumsy]

Maybe being honest will stop them having to open the parcel to check. Bit like Russian roulette though!!

I'm expecting a small oil package from Canada, so we will see. I cannot stop operating just because the post is being iffy. Just have to take the chances and fight the good fight. I shall be very cross if oil gets stopped.

[NewHaarlem]

I just shipped two bottles of perfumes today via USPS Priority Mail. The lady asked the usual "...flammable, fragile...", and I just told her it's fragile. Then, she asked me if it contains "...alcohol, perfume...", and I said, "No."

Done.

I wrapped the bottles with A LOT of thick brown paper (like the ones that Amazon uses when shipping large items) to make sure the liquids don't make any sound when the package is being handled.

[bigsteve]

As if I am going to obey those dumb regulations? Not likely.
And I'll take my chances on getting "caught."

[jujy54]

Oy Vey! So much good fellowship has happened in the basenotes community through sharing, especially internationally. I think it would be easy enough to permit small shipments, say 5 ml or less, with specially purchased packaging and labeling. I would think USPS would welcome the business.

For now, I'll cease with international shipping. I'm a terrible liar.