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  1. #31

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    I've never had or heard of them every asking anyone to open a package, but if they did just look around and make sure there's a line behind you and tell them it's sex toys that your shipping to your grand mother.
    "Trust me...that is NOT a bottle of Rochas Man."

  2. #32
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    "Trust me...that is NOT a bottle of Rochas Man."
    Lol...yeah, I think if you pulled it out slowly enough it'd work. If it was a female employee though it might get confiscated

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmBeach View Post
    We now have, what, four or five different threads on perfume mailing?
    He's started this new thread deliberatley, using exactly the same thread title as I used for my thread....just to be awkward. Op has a real attitude problem, attacking everyone.
    Last edited by david; 17th August 2014 at 12:38 PM.
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  4. #34
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    Just to be awkward. Op has a real attitude problem, attacking everyone.
    I take issue with posts that confuse fact with speculation and conjecture. Yours are know for just that. When dealing with subject matter like this, the community is best served with sticking to the facts. If you've got an opinion, offer it up as just that. It makes for lively discussion if you can back it up good logic and reasoning. You're right, that is my attitude. If you've got a problem with it, I really don't care.

    If you care to stick to the facts and further explore and discuss the reasons behind some of the rule or enforcement changes we've seen, I'd like to see you add to this thread. But please don't blow the issue out of proportion like you've done elsewhere. This is not some grand conspiracy originating with the UPU/UN. Perfume has not, just now, been deemed as hazmat either. It has been the case for decades in the US and I would bet the same in most developed countries.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    I take issue with posts that confuse fact with speculation and conjecture. Yours are know for just that. When dealing with subject matter like this, the community is best served with sticking to the facts. If you've got an opinion, offer it up as just that. It makes for lively discussion if you can back it up good logic and reasoning. You're right, that is my attitude. If you've got a problem with it, I really don't care.

    If you care to stick to the facts and further explore and discuss the reasons behind some of the rule or enforcement changes we've seen, I'd like to see you add to this thread. But please don't blow the issue out of proportion like you've done elsewhere. This is not some grand conspiracy originating with the UPU/UN. Perfume has not, just now, been deemed as hazmat either. It has been the case for decades in the US and I would bet the same in most developed countries.
    I think you should read my posts VERY carefully.
    I state in the opening post of my thread....

    "The spokesman I talked to from the International Civil Aviation Authorities told me that the issue of perfumes being classed as hazardous materials, (because of the high alcohol content) has been known and enforced for several years."
    You are just re~hashing things I said at the very beginng of the thread.

    Again, if you read my posts properly you will see back up evidence of every single piece of information I put forward. I also provided copies of emails sent to me, including the senders name and position within the Royal Mail.
    .....and I was stating facts, (not cospiricy theories) when I said that the enforcement came from the UPO, which is an agency within the UN. Fact, not fiction.

    Why are you trying to damage me this way ? and why are you attacking other posters so aggresively ?
    Last edited by david; 24th February 2013 at 09:45 PM.
    RARE PERFUME DECANTS - FACEBOOK (closed group) - Hundreds of ultra rare extraits available, including Djedi and Nombre Noir.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    That would be interesting to know

  7. #37

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    If anyone appears wrongly informed and someone else knows better, then steer the conversation in the right direction with correct information to the better good of all. No swiping needed, just real information to help everyone. The whole idea of a forum is to discuss ideas and things we have found, not condemn anyone for being, or not being, correct.
    Currently wearing: Montecristo by Masque

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    david... I mostly like your posts. Seriously. It seems you are very passionate about perfume/cologne. That is admirable. In fact, I think I owe you a beer for your words about Les Copains Homme and specifically how you’d tied it to Yatagan. I found a bottle and it's great. I might just owe you 2 beers because I went back and got another. If you’re ever in Chicago, let me know

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    I think you should read my posts VERY carefully...
    Why are you trying to damage me this way ? and why are you attacking other posters so aggresively ?
    That’s exactly the issue david. I’m not into ad-hominen attacks, but I do take umbrage with some of your posts on this subject. If you want credibility from me as well as others (I’m quite sure) on this issue, I strongly suggest you edit or delete your posts #33 and #64 in mr. dampier’s thread entitled “USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments” in the male fragrance forum http://www.basenotes.net/threads/324...rity-Shipments . As they read now:


    #33
    “It is a TOTAL, (worldwide) ban and includes LAND and SEA shipping. ALL METHODS OF SHIPMENT.
    The enforcement came from the UNIVERSAL POSTAL UNION, not as some people think the Civil Aviation Authorities. This is not about perfumes/alcohol being carried on planes ~ it is about all forms of shipping perfumes/alcohol. The ban also includes lithium batteries and, (of all things!) nail varnish ???????..............
    This planet has become pathetic.”
    “Please see my thread entitled shipping perfumes, and my posts on this thread. This has nothing to do with aircraft. This ban affects roal/land haulage / rail haulage and sea haulage. All forms of shipment.”


    #64
    "Hi Paul,
    I got all of my information via the UK press office of the Civil Aviation Authorities. I phoned the press office, (you can google to find their number ~ or alternatively write to them) The guy I spoke to was very helpful and extremely knowledgable. He explained to me that this regulation has come from the UPU. He also told me that the International Civil Aviation Authorities do not like the regulation, ( I am assuming because aircraft make a lot of revenue from transporting packages) and that the UK postal service, (Royal Mail) are fighting the regulation for the same reason. The Royal Mail want the alcohol limit, currently at 24 percent, lifted, (obviously to be able to ship perfume).
    I really hope everyone investgates this issue and I think as many members as possible should contact the press on all levels including newspapers, radio and television.
    The Universal Postal Union has deliberately kept this very quiet...so as not to create a fuss.
    .....that's probably the reason you are not finding any direct information there."



    What we know:

    1. There has been no documented ban on perfume transport, either globally or at any national level.

    2. Aside from UK’s Royal Mail, it appears that no gov’t or private carrier has made any recent rule changes affecting the transport of perfume.

    3. The recent RM documented changes are actually an easing of restrictions with respect to perfume transport. Now, a properly registered business can transport perfume domestically provided restrictions are met. In July, this additional freedom will be extended to the personal class. Neither class could, can, or will be allowed to transport internationally though.

    4. Rules of some gov’t carriers (e.g. CanadaPost, AusPost,) have not and do not allow for the domestic or international transport of perfume.

    5. In some countries, gov’t carriers appear to be administering a reminder campaign that perfume is a hazardous material / dangerous good and, as such, is either non-mailable or can be mailed with restrictions (e.g. ground only).

    6. For the most part, the reminder campaigns noted above are typically relegated to the postal clerk asking “Does this parcel contain anything fragile, liquid, perishable, or potentially hazardous?”, or similar, and posters on the walls, etc.

    7. We, in the BN community, have yet to identify and pinpoint any credible, publicly accessible, documentary support indicating exactly why the RM changed its rules.

    8. We, in the BN community, have yet to identify and pinpoint any credible, publicly accessible, documentary support indicating why some gov’t carriers appear to be administering a reminder campaign as to the mailability of hazardous materials / dangerous goods.

    9. Most countries have hazardous material / dangerous goods legislation.

    10. Some country’s hazardous material / dangerous goods legislation expressly adopt or assimilate international hazardous materials / dangerous goods legislation, treatise, and/or UN model regulations into their own national regulations.

    11. Perfume is typically categorized under hazardous material / dangerous goods legislation as a flammable liquid (i.e. category 3).

    12. Perfume is mostly ethanol.

    13. Ethanol has a flashpoint of around 70F.

    14. We’ve yet to come across any recent documented national hazardous materials / dangerous goods legislation amendments affecting either the categorization or transport of perfume.

    15. We’ve yet to come across any recent documented international hazardous material / dangerous goods legislation, treatise, or model UN regulation showing amendments affecting either the categorization or transport of perfume.

    16. We’ve yet to hear any instances where BNrs have had a perfume shipment destroyed, confiscated, etc. where the gov’t carrier’s rules were being followed.

    17. We’ve heard plenty of instances where BNrs have had a perfume shipment destroyed, confiscated, etc. where the gov’t carrier’s rules were not being followed.

    18. Confiscations, etc. do not appear to be a new development, however, apparently it may be occurring more frequently within some nations or at some national borders.

    19. We’ve heard plenty of instances where BNrs have not had a perfume shipment destroyed, confiscated, etc. where the gov’t carrier’s rules were not being followed.

    20. Just because gov’t carriers’ rules expressly prohibit or restrict the domestic or international transport of perfume, that does not mean that private carriers are prohibited or restricted from offering those transport services.

    21. Private carrier rates for domestic and/or international perfume transport tend to be greater, and oftentimes much greater than the rates charged by gov’t carriers for similar sized parcels of non-hazardous materials / non-dangerous goods.

    22. There is recent readily available documented national hazardous materials / dangerous goods legislation amendments affecting the transport of lithium ion batteries.

    23. There is recent readily available documented international hazardous material / dangerous goods legislation, treatise, or model UN regulation showing amendments affecting the transport of lithium ion batteries.

    24. There have been at least two documented and relatively recent occurrences where bombs were found in the international mail-stream.

    25. Most (All?) gov’t and private carriers put the onus on the mailer to accurately declare the contents of packages the mailer puts into or attempts to put into the mail-stream.

    26. Most gov’t carriers put the onus on the mailer to understand and abide by its rules.

    27. Mailers that are ignorant of gov’t carrier rules and/or inaccurately declare the contents of packages put into the mail-stream are subject to loss of property, fines, prison time... whether because gov’t carrier rules or national/international hazardous materials/dangerous goods regulations were violated.

    28. As a service to BNrs of all experience, it is probably more helpful to have an unemotional, factual account of this broad issue available in these forums. As adults, we can then make our own informed decisions about how best to transport our perfumes.


    There are a few of us here that, for whatever reasons, feel compelled to dig a little deeper with this issue in order to pass along good and useful information. If anyone sees any errors in any of the above points, please air it out, let's discuss, and I'll make the changes to the list.

    I’m not out to prove anybody right or wrong or make anyone look bad. I just want accuracy for the benefit of the BN community. And… for the sake of the seriousness of this subject matter, I ask that emotional out pouring or rants be saved for a different thread. Please contribute if you can.

    - - - Updated - - -

    just to make it clear re USPS, I'm adding...

    29. The USPS has not changed any of its rules affecting the transport of perfume. Per its rules, perfume is a hazardous material that is prohibited from domestic air and international transport; ground transport is permissible if it is accurately declared as perfume and its hazardous materials rules are followed.
    Last edited by DuNezDeBuzier; 25th February 2013 at 11:35 PM. Reason: spellin erroars

  9. #39
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Much food for thought there.

    Will let you know if we ever find out why what's happening happened in the U.K.

    For many small/start-up non RM contract businesses here, July (when the alleged 'easing' of recently imposed inland restrictions may take place) will be too late.

    The intended 'modernisation' will see many jobs lost in the Postal sector if current plans succeed.
    Link on David's thread #

    This is not going to help the recession one bit.

    My interest in this is because I expect the authorities to give the public notice before drastically changing rules & I was raised to oppose unfairness.
    I'm full time (not on any State benefits btw) caring for an elderly brain-damaged parent & that's a breeze compared to getting to the bottom of this one
    Last edited by lpp; 26th February 2013 at 08:02 PM.

  10. #40

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    My interest in this is because I expect the authorities to give the public notice before drastically changing rules & I was raised to oppose unfairness.
    Indeed, but primarily I expect the authorities to made *reasonable* decisions, not preposterous ones.

    And I don't expect overbearing men to tell me what I should or should not be exercised by. Posts can be skipped very easily. I had no difficulty in giving some on this page a miss.
    Last edited by Bela; 26th February 2013 at 12:53 PM.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Suggest that everyone who is affected writes to their M.P.'s.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Suggest that everyone who is affected writes to their M.P.'s.
    And to Vince Cable.

    *Everyone* who buys or sells perfume will be affected in one way or another in the end.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Also Chuka Umunna, Shadow for Business, Innovation & Skills.

    I've contacted a few people so far & will update if their replies manage to break through the current wall of silence!

    Please see David's thread in Male Fragrance, particularly with ref. to the planned 'locals'
    - links on post #87.

    This will presumably result in many job losses in the Postal sector if it goes ahead as planned, with those of us living in rural areas left without an accessible service.
    Many very old people here rely on Sub P.O.'s to draw cash, etc. and will have problems travelling to places with said 'locals' as public transport is declining in rural areas.

    p.s. - not being 'political' on purpose, but if as many people are as concerned as they seem to be, we need to do something together here in the U.K. to register our acute displeasure as most members & potential future members, not to mention small businesses, are affected.
    Last edited by lpp; 26th February 2013 at 08:11 PM.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    For those still tuned in...

    There are 2 great articles (pp. 9 & 13) perhaps explaining alot of what we're seeing/hearing as of late: http://news.upu.int/uploads/media/un..._2_2012_en.pdf

    The mentioned UPU security chain standards were apparently both approved at its Oct2012 Doha Congress. As of yet, I've not been able to find any documentation trail referencing the UPU security chain standards to the ICAO, IATA, our goverment regs, or postal regs. It's odd to me that there is no apparent formal tract. I've got some queries outstanding, maybe they'll shed more light.
    Simplex Sigillum Veri

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    i just lie and say im selling books.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Apparently sending them to Belfast for x-ray here, despite we cant ship by sea/air & it's in Ireland.....

  17. #47
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    DuNezDeBuzier quote, "If you want credibility from me as well as others (I’m quite sure) on this issue, I strongly suggest you edit or delete your posts #33 and #64 in mr. dampier’s thread entitled “USPS' Perfume Crackdown March 1; No Air/Priority Shipments” in the male fragrance forum"

    ....you hijack a thread I started, using EXACTLY the same thread title, (something unheard of on basenotes code of ethics).
    ....then you have the nerve to tell me how I should earn credibility from YOU, (and others!).
    How patronising !
    RARE PERFUME DECANTS - FACEBOOK (closed group) - Hundreds of ultra rare extraits available, including Djedi and Nombre Noir.

  18. #48

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Apparently sending them to Belfast for x-ray here, despite we cant ship by sea/air & it's in Ireland.....
    Yes, I am in Belfast. We are Northern Ireland(home for many years to opening suspicious packages LOL), only a few miles across from Scotland so not a long sea journey.
    DONNA

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Hi Donna - yes, assumed that was the reason that they were/are apparently being sent there - as you already have the equipment!

    - - - Updated - - -
    Edit 5 March
    New thread re. Royal Mail slightly altered business terms/new prices/links
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/327...49#post2866549
    Last edited by lpp; 5th March 2013 at 01:02 PM.

  20. #50

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    All rumor aside, all speculation and fear-mongering aside, In the United States, MY POST OFFICE has indeed cracked down. I have been told it is illegal to ship fragrance overseas, illegal to ship in the USA even ground, that it is fine to ship overseas, that it is ok to ship ground USA if a ORM-D sticker is affixed, that the sticker isn't needed...Their own people don't know what is going on. I had to show the postal worker I usually deal with the USPS regs about flashpoints, amounts, etc. before she grudgingly allowed it. Then 3 days later another worker disputed me again. I hate feeling like a criminal. I have begun refusing bids on EBAY for my stuff from overseas customers b/c the post office I use said I can be fined/imprisoned if they catch me b/c they know that I know the regs...

  21. #51
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    @Diogenes65 - So sorry, your story is very familiar to us here.

    There has just been a slight relaxation announced here for smaller business users within the U.K., recently publicised by Ebay.

    Overseas shipping remains impossible here for smaller businesses and individuals who can't afford to 'vote with their feet' and take contracts with other shippers.
    Last edited by lpp; 6th March 2013 at 05:30 PM.

  22. #52
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    I've been told the same at my P.O., Diogenes65. I'm not a seller, just a sample swapper. I was told that lying to a postal worker is in fact a crime and they are now specifically asking if packages contain perfume. The penalties are overly severe: that's federal prison time, not just a few days in the county lock-up. And fines can be up to $25,000. As you saw, the worst part is that even the postal employees aren't trained well on this. I bet if I drove to a different P.O., I'd get a whole new set of answers.

    For now, I feel too uncomfortable to ship internationally. Will let those who wish to continue lying find out if the government is serious about these penalties or not. Such a shame they can't seem to figure a way to offer international shipping on these items. I'd gladly pay more but UPS and such are cost prohibitive for packages that only amount to a bunch of half-used samples. Agree with those who've said USPS should be finding more ways to make money instead of losing it.
    Last edited by PerfumedLady; 6th March 2013 at 05:33 PM.
    The nose wants what it wants!

  23. #53
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Maybe someone should write a script up and try to sell it to some movie execs.
    Last edited by silentrich; 6th March 2013 at 07:51 PM.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    ^ Yeah, it could be like Midnight Express where the protagonist sends some perfume through USPS air because he did not truthfully declare it as such. It accelerates a fire in the cargo hold caused by some spontaneously combustible lithium-ion batteries. Most of the crew perish, but one grabs the last remaining bits of the package the protagonist sent before parachuting to safety. The flamming wreckage falls on an orphanage. His return address is clearly visible. He's sentenced to life in guatonimo... Until he head-butts a corrupt guard then swims off to the Cayman Islands where he works his way up from a conch fisherman, to scuba instructor, to owning a Creed Boutique in Georgetown. He makes money hand over fist selling at exorbitant prices to the Cruise sect. Having changed his name to Count Montecristo, he returns to the US and convinces the gov't to sell him the USPS because it is not making nearly as much money as it could if it had only allowed perfume to be transported as a non-hazardous material. He then allows all mailers to use his Count Montecristo's Postal Service to transport perfume and other legislated hazardous substances as if they were not, in fact, hazardous. And he, (a) lives happily ever after, (b) is thrown back in jail for willfully violating the hazardous materials act, or (c) he is elected prez because he give the people what they truly want. Hey, aren't alternative endings en vogue?
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  25. #55
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Good story, DNDB! Would add just one thing: some vintage samples in that parcel. That would then allow for a scene in which everyone in the vicinity of the crash loses their limbs and eyeballs due to exposure to oakmoss and nitromusks!
    The nose wants what it wants!

  26. #56
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    ^ Yeah, it could be like Midnight Express where the protagonist sends some perfume through USPS air because he did not truthfully declare it as such. It accelerates a fire in the cargo hold caused by some spontaneously combustible lithium-ion batteries. Most of the crew perish, but one grabs the last remaining bits of the package the protagonist sent before parachuting to safety. The flamming wreckage falls on an orphanage. His return address is clearly visible. He's sentenced to life in guatonimo... Until he head-butts a corrupt guard then swims off to the Cayman Islands where he works his way up from a conch fisherman, to scuba instructor, to owning a Creed Boutique in Georgetown. He makes money hand over fist selling at exorbitant prices to the Cruise sect. Having changed his name to Count Montecristo, he returns to the US and convinces the gov't to sell him the USPS because it is not making nearly as much money as it could if it had only allowed perfume to be transported as a non-hazardous material. He then allows all mailers to use his Count Montecristo's Postal Service to transport perfume and other legislated hazardous substances as if they were not, in fact, hazardous. And he, (a) lives happily ever after, (b) is thrown back in jail for willfully violating the hazardous materials act, or (c) he is elected prez because he give the people what they truly want. Hey, aren't alternative endings en vogue?
    That is awesome! I love the Montecristo take. Also edit it so he pays them in Sacagewea dollars, because they know not what paper money is and will only use it for toilet paper and for making paper airplanes.
    Last edited by silentrich; 7th March 2013 at 01:07 AM.

  27. #57

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    Quote Originally Posted by DuNezDeBuzier View Post
    ^ Yeah, it could be like Midnight Express where the protagonist sends some perfume through USPS air because he did not truthfully declare it as such. It accelerates a fire in the cargo hold caused by some spontaneously combustible lithium-ion batteries. Most of the crew perish, but one grabs the last remaining bits of the package the protagonist sent before parachuting to safety. The flamming wreckage falls on an orphanage. His return address is clearly visible. He's sentenced to life in guatonimo... Until he head-butts a corrupt guard then swims off to the Cayman Islands where he works his way up from a conch fisherman, to scuba instructor, to owning a Creed Boutique in Georgetown. He makes money hand over fist selling at exorbitant prices to the Cruise sect. Having changed his name to Count Montecristo, he returns to the US and convinces the gov't to sell him the USPS because it is not making nearly as much money as it could if it had only allowed perfume to be transported as a non-hazardous material. He then allows all mailers to use his Count Montecristo's Postal Service to transport perfume and other legislated hazardous substances as if they were not, in fact, hazardous. And he, (a) lives happily ever after, (b) is thrown back in jail for willfully violating the hazardous materials act, or (c) he is elected prez because he give the people what they truly want. Hey, aren't alternative endings en vogue?
    Thanks so much for good laugh!

  28. #58
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    That's really cool everyone

    Might have problems financing it 'though.....

  29. #59

    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    I feel bad for those small sellers, especially in the UK who now are scrambling to find inexpensive shippers. I know guys like Chris Bartlett can't really compete with the big houses as far as price, and now to not be able to ship...what gets me is that these planes that carry my 1ml sample vial in cargo are carrying 1 liter bottles of 120 Proof Brandy in the galley. Your telling me my sample is likely to take the plane down faster than that bottle of brandy???

  30. #60
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    Default Re: Shipping Perfume

    It's not good

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