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  1. #31
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    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Are you implying that this can't be classified as marketing because only bad businesses use marketing? ...?



    That's a far stretch from, and I quote, "It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It." Perfumery is alive and well, and I can say without a doubt that decades from now, we will be able to look back on this moment and realize that some of the greatest fragrances hadn't even been created yet.
    i hope thats the case because i really havent seen those greatests new frags yet

  2. #32

    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    Quote Originally Posted by null set View Post
    I dig up this information because I think all the reformulation anxiety is overstated.
    Well 'overstated' is subjective . . . but it's great that you made an effort, and as you have discovered, IFRA is made up of the six 'majors' - the aroma chemical companies who design and manufacture a very large percentage of what you see in the stores. I don't know what % exactly, but my guess would be in the 65% - 85% range.

    There's a bit more reading to be done, though, because if you read between the lines you will see that pretty well anyone making perfume, including artisanal outfits where it brewed and bottled on the premises, are now living under the shadow of litigation if they are found to be selling perfume that someone might claim has caused a rash or allergic reaction and they do not have the 'but I am IFRA compliant' backstop to fall back on. The IFRA / EU regulations are a protection, and in this ambulance chaser world anyone selling stuff that may be fair game needs a backstop. Chris mentions this himself somewhere with regard to his own line.

    Of course if there was a clear warning label on the packaging like there used to be with cosmetic products, all this could have been avoided BUT the industry, the IFRA members, in their wisdom no doubt decided it would scare off customers and cast a scary scientific light on the romance and luxury of 'perfume' so they dug themselves into this hole. Perfume is made by vestal virgins collecting flowers under a full moon at the equinox, not be people in white coats in labs, right? And they use 'only the finest natural ingredients', no chemicals . . . God forbid.

    It's just staggering to me how this has all come about - talk about shooting yourself in the foot. BUT, as long as people keep having babies there will be a new customer base turning up to buy whatever confection has been foisted on the market and with absolutely no basis of comparison (because 10 years will be sufficient for most perfumes that are 'real' to vanish from the shelves) they will sail on blissfully unaware that they are paying to wear a facsimile, a poor copy, a distant echo of something that was once quite beautiful. It's an easy business decision for a company to make - they literally will not know what they are missing, unless Mum or Dad have a few old bottles lying around that somehow smell and feel different, so why not? The perfumers don't get a lot of say in the matter - the up and comings work with the budget they have been given and the more established ones mostly just shrug and roll their eyes . . . Wasser is one of a very few who have commented on this in public.

    There will continue to be certain types of wonderful perfumes made, and some older ones need not change because they did not rely on the ever-increasing list of regulated or banned ingredients, BUT I don't think this issue is overstated because I know for a fact that many of the fragrances I know and enjoy have either been discontinued because they were impossible to make anymore, OR have been substantially changed to bring them in line with the current IFRA regulations. I'm pissed off about that but I knew it was coming and have back-ups etc. but that's how it is . . . the industry has effectively screwed itself when it comes to producing quality, while trying to maximize profit. No-one gets killed, so whether this is important or not is a personal decision . . . but to deny it is simply willful ignorance.

  3. #33

    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    In a former thread I tried to explain in layman's terms about EU and IFRA and why perfumes change:
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/322...ame-some-facts

    Besides the clever marketing, perfumes ARE changing because not only perfume making changes (how perfumers are trained, how perfume is manufactured and marketed) but ALSO because the customer themselves force the perfume market to change due to different tastes and simply because they have no clue how the 'real' thing is supposed to smell:
    http://virsanghvi.com/Article-Details.aspx?Key=904
    @SomethingSmelly

  4. #34

    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    Well 'overstated' is subjective . . .
    Thanks for your thoughtful response, mr reasonable. I didn't make clear that "overstated" related to S2C's email. What they are saying has some truth to it, but I think in this instance they are--consciously or not--are stoking consumer fears that benefit their business.

  5. #35

    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    Quote Originally Posted by noirdrakkar View Post
    i hope thats the case because i really havent seen those greatests new frags yet
    ....????

    Clearly, you're not even looking at your own collection. More than HALF of the scents in your top ten list are less than 10 years old... but apparently nothing great is being made anymore? Holy cow. You crack me up.

    1. New Haarlem - 2003
    2. Aventus - 2010
    3. Green Irish Tweed
    4. M7
    5. Dior Homme - 2005 or do you prefer the 2011 version?
    6. Silver Mountain Water
    7. Millesime Imperial
    8. Virgin Island Water - 2007
    9. Tobacco Vanille - 2007
    10. YSL L'Homme - 2006


    The idea that, ohs noes, the world of perfumery is over... that's silly. Yes, reformulations happen. Some ingredients are banned. Others become scarce or too cost-prhibitive to use - both of which, by the way, were a problem decades ago too and the world of perfumery did not end. My bottle of L'Air du Desert Marocain is proof that absolutely astounding perfume is still being created. Sombre Negra by Yosh, from 2011, is more proof.

    If you think about it objectively, you'll see that there is good news as well as bad. Some ingredients are banned, yes, but others are created. Some marvelous perfumes utilize those new(ish) ingredients. As proof, I cite your own top ten list. So many marvelous scents have been created in the last ten years.

    ...how's that 1945 bottle of Aventus treating you? LOL!
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  6. #36
    treeman5823
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    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    People, relax. My title was a half-joke--you can't make a pun with R.E.M. and not find it just a bit funny. It is certainly NOT the end of the perfumed world, although that world is certainly being invaded by little green philistines who think they can uproot native law and principle. To sum up: 1.) perfumery is not yet dead; 2.) yes, this article is marketing, but I think sampling services are invaluable, so who the hell cares; 3.) my taste in titles is inappropriate. Have a nice day, friends.

  7. #37
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    Default Re: It's the End of the (Perfumed) World as We Know It

    Quote Originally Posted by Irina View Post
    In a former thread I tried to explain in layman's terms about EU and IFRA and why perfumes change:
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/322...ame-some-facts

    Besides the clever marketing, perfumes ARE changing because not only perfume making changes (how perfumers are trained, how perfume is manufactured and marketed) but ALSO because the customer themselves force the perfume market to change due to different tastes and simply because they have no clue how the 'real' thing is supposed to smell:
    http://virsanghvi.com/Article-Details.aspx?Key=904
    I love this article, yes its so obvious, everything valuable is getting more scarce, if i use real burnon vanilla in my cakes it increases the cost of the cake for 30 %.....perfumes are sharing destiny of the whole world:-)

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