It's a shame.
I know Ebay really doesn't care if their sellers break the law by shill bidding, but this is ridiculous. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cereus-Pour-...item338042918a, http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cereus-Pour-...item33804292ad, http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Cereus-P...item4851f206bb.
3 different auction with the same bidders and one has over 36 retracted bids in 6 months.
And here's another one from the same seller with of course the same bidder http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Cereus-P...item4851f2031f
Last edited by silentrich; 3rd March 2013 at 07:20 PM.
It's a shame.
One of the drawbacks of auction sites.
A. I don't really see what you are demonstrating. The same people are bidding on different sales of the same fragrance? Why wouldn't they? I bid on the same fragrance in different auctions sometimes, trying to get the best deal.
B. If the buyer only bids the maximum one is willing to pay, and the seller is just trying to bid it up, the seller is less likely to complete a sale, which kinda defeats the purpose of selling.
I looked at the links also, and didn't see anything blatant or provable.
But it goes without saying, anywhere you go there are going to be dirtbags trying to hose others.
----- People laugh at me because I'm different.... I laugh at them because they're all the same -----
Last edited by silentrich; 3rd March 2013 at 09:34 PM.
@ silentrich - Well, if someone only ever bids on one seller's listings & doesn't win, or they relist item if they do....
& be careful with 'private' listings 'cos u can't even check that.
p.s. They only take action on complaints from people who have been shilled!
Restrict them to 'BIN'
Has been a problem in U.K.
Academic problem here at the moment as we can't ship it!
Some are o.k., suggest putting on 'watch' list if really interested,not all are bad.
Why even shop on ebay?
I hate it.
You dont even get great(!) deals like people think they do.
Besides, ebay is an evil company
I have gotten several great deals on eBay. In fact, in 10 years, I've only had one problematic transaction. I bought a counterfeit CD from someone but got my money back.
If people weren't getting great deals on eBay, I don't believe they would have lasted and flourished like they have.
That one bidder with the 36 retracted bids does look suspicious. I didn't even know you could look for such things. Thanks!
Basenotes sales: By Kilian Straight to Heaven, Heeley Coccobello, Many collectible/discontinued CREEDs (Vintage Tabarome, Citrus Bigarrade, Selection Verte), Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, Balenciaga Ho Hang Club, Reyane Insurrection, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://www.basenotes.net/threads/340...ciaga-SAMPLES!
Offsite sales: By Kilian Straight to Heaven, Heeley Coccobello, Vintage Tabarome, Selection Verte, Citrus Bigarrade), Tom Ford Noir de Noir, By Kilian Prelude to Love, Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, Balenciaga Ho Hang Club, Reyane Insurrection, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=260 and http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=626
Shill bidding doesn't actually hurt anyone. Regardless of how the price is derived, it is still up to the consumer on whether he or she wants to buy it. If the shill price is cheaper than average, it's a better deal. If it's more expensive, no rational person is going to buy it anyway.
Person A starts a bid of Green Irish Tweed $50 and shill bids it up to $150.
Person B starts a bid of Green Irish Tweed for $175.
With the same logic, why don't we ban Person B from eBay for being a gouger too?
My love/hate for EBAY...I have gotten great deals...and have gotten fakes. I bet 1/2 the juice I sell on EBAY the first buyer never pays, and I have to go through the hassle of relisting and getting a refund on the fees. I also have seen people bid up one particular sellers merchandise and somehow NEVER win an auction. There are no consequences on EBAY so people cheat. I just got a A*Man Fake from a seller in El Salvador...what a nightmare...she refuses to pay my return shipping...and it is a blatant fake!
I never said shilling was permitted by the website's rules.
Please tell me how it's of any consequential difference to a rational consumer.
The rational consumer could expect to be bound by the concepts and rules pertaining to supply and demand, and if the seller has started an item at a low price (which could be expected to stimulate demand in itself) but proceeds to use shill bidding to artificially inflate the price (irrespective of whether other genuine bidders would have driven the price up themselves*) the rational consumer could view the vendor as manipulating the auction for their own personal benefit.
*In such instances it's important to not speculate on what the market would have done in the absence of this artificial demand.
People who think shill bidding is o.k is obv brain-dead.
1) what a buyer would pay for the fragrance (ie: what they're willing to pay); and
2) what a buyer would have paid for the fragrance without the shill bidding having had occurred.
It's certainly a LOT easier to quantify the first (you just need to ask the bidder), and nigh on impossible to quantify the second.
Shill bidding is concerned with the second issue, and I think many people get the issue clouded with the first.
All goes back to ethics in the end
I just bid in the last seconds. Don't care what happens before that, or after (if I get outbid).
Kurt smells like Teen Spirit
Last edited by silentrich; 4th March 2013 at 04:37 PM.
I've used eBay over 200 times to buy fragrance. I've never used it to sell anything.
The shilling behavior you identified would never had affected any of my purchases. I simply come to a price I'm comfortable paying and enter it into a auto-bidder snipe mechanism that enters my bidding in the last few seconds. If I am the highest bidder, so be it. If I 'win' it at a price less than what I was willing to go, g-r-e-a-t! If I don't win it, so be it. By definition, shilling is an action designed to dupe people into believing there is a demand for something when there actually isn't. For those who do not have their own idea as to what they're willing to pay for an item... well, I guess enough will rely on what they see in the form of other bids. This is not how I operate as a buyer on eBay. Again, I know what price I'm willing to pay. That is the only aspect that enters into my bidding. What other bidders come up with, whether sincere or insincere, is of no consequence to my bidding behavior.
I, too, am a little curious as to why this bothers the OP. Sure, it's against the rules; if that aspect bothers you enough, then report it. Wondering why the seller(s) just don't use a reserve if they wish to protect against one of their items going too cheap.
Simplex Sigillum Veri
Otherwise, sellers should play by the rules. An auction is an auction. Shill bidding creates an artificial price point -- a FRAUDULENT artificial price point. Sure, the ultimate buyer pays the top dollar that he or she wanted to pay, but more than the "market price." And that means the buyer can't buy other things that he or she would have bought.
And even if it's marginally less objectionable for a luxury good, what about the people that use Ebay to buy used clothes, or everday items that are just a bit cheaper than they are at the store?
Fraud is fraud. That's why shill bidding is a clear a violation of Ebay's TOS.
I still like Ebay, but no longer love it because of this type of behavior.
Current Top Five:
1. Creed Green Irish Tweed
2. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
3. Hermes Concentre d'Orange Verte
4. Bond No. 9 New Haarlem
5. Creed Original Vetiver