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  1. #61
    Basenotes Junkie Wheatstraw2's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I'm new here and I'd say that, by internet message board standards, it's a pretty erudite group.

  2. #62

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    This Forum is much better now.
    Five years ago there was a strong group of supposedly experienced Basenoters, who took it upon themselves to continually push for men to wear women's scent because the women's scents were superior, and virtually all but a few masculine scents were rubbish - while at the same time arguing the exact opposite proposition that scents had no gender (so how come most of the "mens" scents were rubbish?).

    Time and again, I'd get ultra annoyed - sure wear anything you like, but stop casting yourself as superior because you wear women's scents, and stop continually bashing the masculine scents and inferring that those who liked masculine scents had less refined noses. This did lead to quite a few heated exchanges at the time.

    Yes, there is less emphasis on classic scents here now, but it's also less elitist/snobbish than it was back then for a while. Also, as I've noticed with my nephews, they really don't like a lot of those classic scents very much at all.
    Regards,
    Renato
    Soooooooooooooooo true Renato hahaha, excellent observation, and one of the reasons I did not post as much early on. Few years back, I commented that Womanity was too feminine and this member went all ballistic for no reason, Another member who use to go on condescending rants if they did not know their Cambodian from Indian Oud and the different grades, as if it was a crime lol. So pathetic.
    Last edited by vinramani09; 22nd March 2013 at 09:40 AM.

  3. #63

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by noggs View Post
    Basenotes itself is largely responsible for the attrition of veteran members and the loss of internet presence to competing sites.

    Overzealous moderators (apparently with Grant's support) have over the years banned a number of the most valuable posters, usually for petty or personal reasons (which never should've been allowed).

    Couple that with Grant's ongoing inability to keep the site up and functioning normally (not to mention lack of improvements to the site) and you had some members just give up in frustration and go elsewhere.

    in addition to these self inflicted wounds, some veteran members have their own blogs or write for other, more welcoming or progressive websites, which may take precedence over contributing to Basenotes.

    Basenotes has, unfortunately, a lack of serious commitment and vision from its owner. It's a shame, really, as it once was the premiere site for fragrances on the internet and could've been so much more than it is now. I believe that Grant should've sought help or sold the website years ago, but he has consistently shown that he wants to have complete control over the site even though it is far too large for him to manage and he has other, more important concerns that do not allow him the time that Basenotes needs.

    All this probably sounds harsher than intended, but it is my perception of the site since I joined in 2007. The fact that we all want more from Basenotes shows how important that we think it is and how monumental Grant's initial work was. It's just too bad that the site could've been in such better shape with a less draconian and more flexible philosophy.
    Well Said!!!

    I was surprised when Sorcery of Scent got banned, but banned for what?
    He was such a great contributor, and i was surprised to see him got banned.

    some of the moderators/admin on BN are some of the worst that i've ever encounter
    AUSSIES, join our exclusive niche split club.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...s-niche-splits

    Currently splitting:

    Amouage - Tribute, Homage and OPUS VII
    Andy Tauer - Noontide Petals, Miriam and Loretta
    HdP - Veni, Vidi, Vici and Rosam, Ambrarem, Petroleum
    The Different Company - Oud Shamash, Oud for Love and Aurore Nomade
    Guerlain - Sous Le Vent, Angélique Noire, Bois d'Armenie, Cruel Gardenia, Rose Barbare

    and many more niches up for split...

  4. #64

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    This Forum is much better now.
    Five years ago there was a strong group of supposedly experienced Basenoters, who took it upon themselves to continually push for men to wear women's scent because the women's scents were superior, and virtually all but a few masculine scents were rubbish - while at the same time arguing the exact opposite proposition that scents had no gender (so how come most of the "mens" scents were rubbish?).

    Time and again, I'd get ultra annoyed - sure wear anything you like, but stop casting yourself as superior because you wear women's scents, and stop continually bashing the masculine scents and inferring that those who liked masculine scents had less refined noses. This did lead to quite a few heated exchanges at the time.

    Yes, there is less emphasis on classic scents here now, but it's also less elitist/snobbish than it was back then for a while. Also, as I've noticed with my nephews, they really don't like a lot of those classic scents very much at all.
    Regards,
    Renato
    I don't remember it being as pronounced as your post implies, but this subject comes up on Fragrantica as well. Also, it's easy to ignore these suggestions if you can't bear the thought of wearing a "woman's" scent, just as I don't read most posts (here or anywhere else for that matter). I don't agree with those who claim that "women's" scents are superior, so I'm not suggesting that sentiment is unreasonable. Recently, I wore Azuree and thought it was great, however, so on the other hand I'm glad there was encouragement to at least sample some "women's" scents here. In general, though, I'd say most "women's" scents lack enough structure or the structure involves something I don't like, such as a harsh "white floral" accord. In any case, diversity of opinions is what I seek in the forum format. Otherwise, it can largely become an "echo chamber," which is not something that interests me.

  5. #65

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by mspa View Post
    especially missed are off-scenter and scentemental.
    Yes and yes.
    I especially miss scentemental. What a true gentlemen.
    He had such a breadth of knowledge. I thought of him as the "Basenotes Professor".
    I wonder if he ever wrote his book on fragrances?



    Quote Originally Posted by HDDP View Post
    Well Said!!!

    I was surprised when Sorcery of Scent got banned, but banned for what?
    He was such a great contributor, and i was surprised to see him got banned.
    SAY WHAT!
    When did this happen? Not sure how I missed that.

    Come to think of it, I did wonder why he wasn't posting. I just didn't put two and two together.
    What BS!
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  6. #66

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmc View Post

    SAY WHAT!
    When did this happen? Not sure how I missed that.

    Come to think of it, I did wonder why he wasn't posting. I just didn't put two and two together.
    What BS!
    he got banned around in 2012

    i was surprised when i saw he got banned

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/278...ease-(Citrine)

    it said banned on his status when you look through the attached link

    not sure of the reason he got banned, but things could have been work out

    by banning a member is just abusing the admin power, which is pretty fked up
    AUSSIES, join our exclusive niche split club.

    https://groups.google.com/forum/?fro...s-niche-splits

    Currently splitting:

    Amouage - Tribute, Homage and OPUS VII
    Andy Tauer - Noontide Petals, Miriam and Loretta
    HdP - Veni, Vidi, Vici and Rosam, Ambrarem, Petroleum
    The Different Company - Oud Shamash, Oud for Love and Aurore Nomade
    Guerlain - Sous Le Vent, Angélique Noire, Bois d'Armenie, Cruel Gardenia, Rose Barbare

    and many more niches up for split...

  7. #67
    Basenotes Junkie
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    It is what it is. Nothing more.

  8. #68
    Dependent heperd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Look for this thread to be closed very soon.

    Everyone and their little brother is on the internet now. That is the only reason it has changed. From what ive seen Basenotes is actually miles above most other forums in terms of knowledge and maturity.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Lots of people have moved on to facebook groups and blogs because you can actually speak freely there.
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  9. #69

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by mspa View Post
    especially missed are off-scenter and scentemental. does anybody know if they currently post anywhere?
    Scentemental was a giant, with a very powerful nose. I constantly search for his posts and for his reviews.

  10. #70
    Basenotes Member Caskey's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I've been lurking this forums for years, and as the time goes on all I'm seeing is people turning into complete fragrance snobs. Fragrances that in matter of fact aren't offensive to the nose at all and people say they're "harsh" "disgusting" "made them puke" and it's simply not true. It's becoming a complete joke.

  11. #71

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I just remembered (slaps self in the head) who off-scenter was. He was the one with all the wonderful, very well written reviews.
    I used to love reading them. How I wish they were still around.

    Btw, does anyone remember his screen name before off-scenter? Was it Vibert?
    Last edited by ajmc; 22nd March 2013 at 05:12 AM. Reason: Misspelling
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  12. #72

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    ...I don´t remember finding such a cult following for a fragrance as we now find for Aventus. Aventus is a god-like fragrance here.
    You obviously weren't visiting Basenotes when Pure Malt was released. The moderators had to dedicate a whole forum to just that one fragrance.

  13. #73

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    It was Vibert I think. I agree that the forum has changed. Though I've not been around since the beginning like many other members, I am part of the older/classical fragrance group. I don't think classical frags are inherently better than any new ones, but a lot of them come from a time when (of course marketing was important--why make a product if you can't make any money?) tastes changed more slowly and the whole philosophy of fragrance was much different. I am sad to see the members whose posts first got me started here go.

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
    I just remembered (slaps self in the head) who off-scenter was. He was the one with all the wonderful, very well written reviews.
    I used to love reading them. How I wish they were still around.

    Btw, does anyone remember his screen name before off-scenter? Was it Vilbert?

  14. #74

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by HDDP View Post
    he got banned around in 2012

    i was surprised when i saw he got banned

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/278...ease-(Citrine)

    it said banned on his status when you look through the attached link

    not sure of the reason he got banned, but things could have been work out

    by banning a member is just abusing the admin power, which is pretty fked up
    In all seriousness, what is it in that post that led to a ban? Why do people get banned here? I've been totally naive and oblivious - had no idea it was going on! Why?

  15. #75

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I've been a BN member for several years and a frequent visitor for quite a while before joining and it always amazes me when members start posting comments about what a "terrible job" Grant and other BN administrators are doing with the site. If you hate the site so much why do you keep coming back? I'm sure keeping up the BN website isn't the only thing Grant does with his time. I don't personally know him and don't know much about him, but I'm sure he has a regular 9-5 job and maintains this website in his spare time. I'm just glad to have access to a website like Basenotes - and no, I'm not trying to kiss Grant's butt. I'm being 100% honest.

    It drives me nuts when people start bashing the administrators here, and 99% of the time those that are complaining are not monetary contributors, so access to this site is free to them. Yeah, I know, you're going to comment about how I don't contribute money either - well, I'm not the one complaining about the website. I really enjoy spending time on Basenotes and have learned a lot from the members here. I've also had several opportunities to to trades, splits, purchases, etc. here and I appreciate the site for that.

  16. #76

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    It is against the rules to discuss or challenge any particular moderation decision. In order to keep the conversation constructive and not get any more people banned, it is probably best to stick to the topic of moderation in general (allowed, as far as I understand) than dig up these individual cases. And, in fact, if you feel strongly that you need to discuss a specific decision, it would probably be worthwhile to first make a case against the not-discussing rule (again, as far I understand, this would be allowed) before just proceeding to break the rules.

  17. #77
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    This Forum is much better now.
    Five years ago there was a strong group of supposedly experienced Basenoters, who took it upon themselves to continually push for men to wear women's scent because the women's scents were superior, and virtually all but a few masculine scents were rubbish - while at the same time arguing the exact opposite proposition that scents had no gender (so how come most of the "mens" scents were rubbish?).

    Time and again, I'd get ultra annoyed - sure wear anything you like, but stop casting yourself as superior because you wear women's scents, and stop continually bashing the masculine scents and inferring that those who liked masculine scents had less refined noses. This did lead to quite a few heated exchanges at the time.
    I found your comments very interesting. I haven't been around here anywhere near five years but I remember being more than a little intimidated when I first encountered posters arguing with an almost religious zealotry that the whole idea of masculine and feminine fragrances is antiquated, contrived and probably oppressive. I saw more than one poster who dared to defend the idea of masculine/feminine fragrances attacked and browbeaten as not being enlightened. Coward that I am I decided this was a fight I had no intention of joining. But I did become enlightened. I saw the kind of stuff that can go on here, "stuff" being a very gentle euphemism for what it is.

  18. #78

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Things change.

    ALso, as Basenotes grows its net presence increases making it the first place people come across when researching a scent.
    TBH, although I may have lurked for a couple of years, I have no idea how different it is compared to 5 years ago. Thanks for all of the considered posts in this thread. It's given me an interesting perspective. I try to be positive and think that today's newbs (me included) are going to be the seasoned connoisseurs of tomorrow.

  19. #79
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ajmc View Post
    I just remembered (slaps self in the head) who off-scenter was. He was the one with all the wonderful, very well written reviews.
    I used to love reading them. How I wish they were still around.

    Btw, does anyone remember his screen name before off-scenter? Was it Vibert?
    It was definitely Vibert (remember the black dog avatar ?) - I always loved his reviews too.
    Last edited by JON RODGERS; 22nd March 2013 at 06:20 AM.

  20. #80

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I have been on here for 10 years.

    A lot of threads these days seem pointless, 'What scent should I wear?' 'help me choose between these 2 scents' that's 2 common ones always appearing. I wish people would think for themselves. As for the fanboys, as the OP said, they were around then, but didn't ram Creed down your throat all the time.

    We had more 'characters` years ago.
    Fine fragrance is alive; it breathes, unfolds and unravels with each passing hour....

    Roja Dove

  21. #81

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    This entire thread reminds me of the stereotypical old man who usually starts off saying, "Back in my day..." And usually ends with "Things just aren't as good as they used to be."

    Ironically enough, it's usually the opposite is true. I've been around for quite a while and gradually become more active because it seemed to become less elitist, more open minded and friendlier. I find the higher age gap far more interesting and allows for different view points. Fragrances are subjective and you know what they say about opinions!

    In the end, it's a fragrance forum and things really shouldn't be taken too seriously. Be grateful we have such a great, big and active community to discuss, split, sell, buy and swap fragrances.
    Last edited by MrFragranceReview; 22nd March 2013 at 07:32 AM.
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  22. #82

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlesslySurprised View Post
    Can you offer some examples?
    No. It would merely continue them. My post was meant as a positive contrasting example, to talk about the past as the past then encourage the new.

    There are a million positive things going on in this forum. Not least the helpful nature of many individuals in the DIY forum. David R and Chris B to name two who give hours and hours of their own time to beginners.

  23. #83

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I'm not sure exactly what "time tested" fragrances you're referring to, but everyone likes different things. If theres something you'd like to talk about in particular, start a thread. I'm sure others will join in the discussion.

    Other than that, as far as members go, people come and go. I've been wearing frags since i had hair on my upper lip. I didn't need basenotes to discover i love to smell good. I didn't need it to discover Aventus either.

    I like to come and read through, possibly join in on a conversations here and there. I VERY rarely base a purchased on another persons description is. Its almost ALWAYS different than mine. Doesn't matter who the person is, how experienced their nose is, and most definitely NOT how many posts they have.

    I think more people should get out there and discover. Go sniff. Thats more important that sitting here talking about it all day.

    And definitely more important than joining in the new trend of wishing Aventus would just go away lol.
    Last edited by aphexacid; 22nd March 2013 at 07:39 AM.

  24. #84

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by vinramani09 View Post
    Soooooooooooooooo true Renato hahaha, excellent observation, and one of the reasons I did not post as much early on. Few years back, I commented that Womanity was too feminine and this member went all ballistic for no reason, Another member who use to go on condescending rants if they did not know their Cambodian from Indian Oud , as if it was a crime lol. So pathetic.
    They were strange times. I recollect it being asserted by one chap that I was plainly gay because I liked Paris Hilton's Just Me for Men (??? - It seemed like a masculine aquatic scent to me, and my wife didn't mind it).

    Although in the midst of the niche craze some years earlier, things got a bit bizarre as well. You'd have some high school student asking for advice on a scent for class, and "authoritative" Basenoters would tell him it was a waste of time buying anything other than Creed Green Irish Tweed or Silver Mountain Water.

    I'm glad you perservered with the site.
    Cheers,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by noggs View Post
    Basenotes itself is largely responsible for the attrition of veteran members and the loss of internet presence to competing sites.

    Overzealous moderators (apparently with Grant's support) have over the years banned a number of the most valuable posters, usually for petty or personal reasons (which never should've been allowed).

    Couple that with Grant's ongoing inability to keep the site up and functioning normally (not to mention lack of improvements to the site) and you had some members just give up in frustration and go elsewhere.

    in addition to these self inflicted wounds, some veteran members have their own blogs or write for other, more welcoming or progressive websites, which may take precedence over contributing to Basenotes.

    Basenotes has, unfortunately, a lack of serious commitment and vision from its owner. It's a shame, really, as it once was the premiere site for fragrances on the internet and could've been so much more than it is now. I believe that Grant should've sought help or sold the website years ago, but he has consistently shown that he wants to have complete control over the site even though it is far too large for him to manage and he has other, more important concerns that do not allow him the time that Basenotes needs.

    All this probably sounds harsher than intended, but it is my perception of the site since I joined in 2007. The fact that we all want more from Basenotes shows how important that we think it is and how monumental Grant's initial work was. It's just too bad that the site could've been in such better shape with a less draconian and more flexible philosophy.
    I have to disagree.
    It's Grant's site, and Grant makes the rules.
    Quite a few members seem to decide that it is really their site and it should be run their way, then pick up their bat and go away when they discover it isn't their site.
    Other members complain a lot because - well it's only my perception - but it seems to have become a way of life for them, and they get very upset with the occasional site problems.
    And finally, some members just move on. They get new hobbies, and the old hobby is just put on the shelf.
    Cheers,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I don't remember it being as pronounced as your post implies, but this subject comes up on Fragrantica as well. Also, it's easy to ignore these suggestions if you can't bear the thought of wearing a "woman's" scent, just as I don't read most posts (here or anywhere else for that matter). I don't agree with those who claim that "women's" scents are superior, so I'm not suggesting that sentiment is unreasonable. Recently, I wore Azuree and thought it was great, however, so on the other hand I'm glad there was encouragement to at least sample some "women's" scents here. In general, though, I'd say most "women's" scents lack enough structure or the structure involves something I don't like, such as a harsh "white floral" accord. In any case, diversity of opinions is what I seek in the forum format. Otherwise, it can largely become an "echo chamber," which is not something that interests me.
    I've noticed over the years that quite a few of the women's scents touted for wearing by men tend to be on the masculine side of women's scents. I bought one for my wife, Black Cashmere, and while she liked it, she kept laughingly referring to it as her "butch" scent.

    I have to agree with you, an awful lot of women's scents lack something - I just don't think much of them. So I was mystified when one chap asserted here back then that all masculine scents were inferior to the women's scents. There is nothing wrong with expressing that opinion if that was how he felt, but he phrased it as the rest of us were inferior or not sophisticated enough, if we did not agree with his view (as he was obviously a self appointed authority on the matter).
    Cheers,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Caskey View Post
    I've been lurking this forums for years, and as the time goes on all I'm seeing is people turning into complete fragrance snobs. Fragrances that in matter of fact aren't offensive to the nose at all and people say they're "harsh" "disgusting" "made them puke" and it's simply not true. It's becoming a complete joke.
    Agreed.
    It seems that for some people, when they dislike a scent, they have to demonize it for no apparent reason.

    Some people constantly post that they "hate" a scent. For some, it's just an exaggerated way to say they dislike a scent a lot, but for others it seems they genuinely do hate it, and I have to wonder what the scent ever personally did to them.
    Regards,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dernier_Cri View Post
    I found your comments very interesting. I haven't been around here anywhere near five years but I remember being more than a little intimidated when I first encountered posters arguing with an almost religious zealotry that the whole idea of masculine and feminine fragrances is antiquated, contrived and probably oppressive. I saw more than one poster who dared to defend the idea of masculine/feminine fragrances attacked and browbeaten as not being enlightened. Coward that I am I decided this was a fight I had no intention of joining. But I did become enlightened. I saw the kind of stuff that can go on here, "stuff" being a very gentle euphemism for what it is.
    You left out the part where we were all supposedly brain washed by marketers (even though none of us have any memory of being subjected to brainwashing techniques in a POW camp, nor of having joined any cult that used mind control techniques to make men like men's scents and vice versa).

    Just be content with remaining part of the 95% of the population who have no difficulty telling a masculine scent from a feminine scent, as opposed to the "enlightened" ones who can't do what a three year old can do inately.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  25. #85

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by senore01 View Post
    It goes to show that change can be a positive thing.
    yes, that's right!

  26. #86

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    The interest in this thread just proves we all care. What is the alternative... no BN? Unthinkable.

  27. #87

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    The interest in this thread just proves we all care. What is the alternative... no BN? Unthinkable.
    Agree - whatever objective or subjective faults this site (and its members) may have, it's great to have a resource like this. Whether you like it or not, a forum like this functions as a democracy (as long as the rules are followed) - there will always be differences of opinion, different likes, dislikes etc. I don't see a problem with this. If you see a thread you don't like, surely you can just ignore it and go on to a thread that interests you ? I know there is a new Aventus thread every other day - that's fine - I just ignore them and go on to the ones in which I am interested.

    Peace to you all.

  28. #88
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by senore01 View Post
    It goes to show that change can be a positive thing.
    It can indeed be, but I confess I don't think it has been to a large degree here.

    I certainly can appreciate some of the comments by others that felt intimidated in earlier years by some highly knowledgeable past members that to some came off as elitist, as I felt a bit out of my depth too many years ago when I first joined. That said, I do miss many of those same people who brought such a large knowledge base to the site that I learned so much from that is missing nowadays to a great degree. That is not meant to insult current members, many of whom I have an anormous amount of respect and friendship, but the loss of those key former/inactive individuals can't be denied, and I certainly miss them and the intellectual discussions they took with them elsewhere to a large degree. I think some aspects of the past and present combined would elevate the overall usefulness of the site to all. I welcome all new fragrance lovers and am happy to have them here (well, maybe with a few less Aventus threads) but we also need the "old guard" for proper balance, IMO, and we seem to be missing most of them here nowadays. Too bad, really.
    Last edited by drseid; 22nd March 2013 at 09:55 AM. Reason: Spelling...
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    8) Tzora (Anat Fritz)

  29. #89

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Just be content with remaining part of the 95% of the population who have no difficulty telling a masculine scent from a feminine scent, as opposed to the "enlightened" ones who can't do what a three year old can do inately.
    Cheers,
    Renato
    Such vitriol! So people who prefer not to see fragrance through a masculine/feminine lens or hew to the dictates of marketing when selecting a perfume are idiots who "can't do what a three year-old can do inately" [sic] ??

    You generalize too much. First, some of us don't believe that a person understands 'feminine' or 'masculine' smells innately. Some of us think that smells don't inherently have gender at all, and that gender assigned to fragrances is purely due to association.

    Second, it's not that we are unable to distinguish scents that are traditionally seen as 'masculine' or 'feminine.' It's that we choose not to let those traditional distinctions dictate what we like or wear.

    Third, I don't like insulting anyone, and I'm pretty sure that I've avoided doing that in taking part in the discussions about masculinity and femininity in fragrance. So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make sweeping insulting generalizations about people who disagree with you.

  30. #90

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    ^ I don't think he said anything wrong, and there is nothing vitriolic at all lol. I and many BNers concur with Renato's viewpoint.

  31. #91

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I have made some attempts at actively joining other sites such as parfumo.net or fragrantica and have been an active member of the MUA fragrance board for a while. However, Basenotes is the only place where I really feel "at home". The discussions are very polite and friendly (though in this respect I have noticed large differences between the Male and Female fragrance forums) and there are many more interesting forums. The layout and usability of the site are also the best in many aspects.

    Yes, the downtimes were extremely annoying and the fragrance directory could be better updated. I also wish for even more substance and more interesting discussions on the forums. But Basenotes is still the best place for me.

    As for if things have changed during the past years: I agree with many of the other posters that the wider accessibility and popularity of niche fragrances have given rise to a new type of "perfumista". In my off-Basenotes life I often meet niche enhusiasts who are badly lacking basic background information on fragrances and perfumers (today's gem: "I heard that Royal dove is delicious, have you tried it?), jump on the hype band vagon (it has to be new/much talked about, "classic" niche houses such as Serge Lutens or L'Artisan are not interesting anymore, it has to be really expensive to be good, scents not sold in the larger Dutch niche stores go completely unnoticed, etc.) and don't realise that the road to finding your personal favourites leades through reading and learning and ultimately sampling, sampling and sampling. They just want it all too fast...

  32. #92
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Basenotes has become a lot more like Walmart, but there are still exceptional reviewers and posters.

  33. #93

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by bonsai View Post
    As for if things have changed during the past years: I agree with many of the other posters that the wider accessibility and popularity of niche fragrances have given rise to a new type of "perfumista". In my off-Basenotes life I often meet niche enhusiasts who are badly lacking basic background information on fragrances and perfumers (today's gem: "I heard that Royal dove is delicious, have you tried it?), jump on the hype band vagon (it has to be new/much talked about, "classic" niche houses such as Serge Lutens or L'Artisan are not interesting anymore, it has to be really expensive to be good, scents not sold in the larger Dutch niche stores go completely unnoticed, etc.) and don't realise that the road to finding your personal favourites leades through reading and learning and ultimately sampling, sampling and sampling. They just want it all too fast...
    Well, that's precisely the consumer this industry (like most) wants, a well-earning, well-conditioned consumer-capitalist drone. And that is part of the mad cycle of ever more substancless, cross-plagiarized scents released by Potemkin niche firms who pop up and disappear within the year. No surprise that such a perfume culture spawns commensurately vacuous threads on perfume forums. It's why I am no longer more than peripherally interested in this world of fragrance, as opposed to its past history and the pockets of low key artisan activity going on today.
    My Wardrobe
    II est de forts parfums pour qui toute matière/Est poreuse. On dirait qu'ils pénètrent le verre.

  34. #94

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    The comment about 3 year old children is interesting. Is that when gender differences become clear to youngsters? One thing I was really pleased about after a couple years into this "hobby" is that I noticed that smells began to lose their cultural associations, so even the smell of fecal matter began to be perceived as terribly unbalanced, but really just a unique smell. I wonder how common this is. One thing I encountered a while back may shed some light on this. I saw a documentary about what France was like a couple hundred years ago, and the narrator went to a perfumer and asked him to create a scent that smelled of all kinds of "foul" things that would have been in the air on the streets during that time (in Paris). The narrator seemed to be much more offended by the result than the perfumer, who seemed to perceive it as just an interesting composition.

  35. #95

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Well, that's precisely the consumer this industry (like most) wants, a well-earning, well-conditioned consumer-capitalist drone. And that is part of the mad cycle of ever more substancless, cross-plagiarized scents released by Potemkin niche firms who pop up and disappear within the year. No surprise that such a perfume culture spawns commensurately vacuous threads on perfume forums. It's why I am no longer more than peripherally interested in this world of fragrance, as opposed to its past history and the pockets of low key artisan activity going on today.
    I strongly agree this niche hysteria is only a fad, just like in the record industry small labels don't exist anymore,
    who is really distributing that house? maybe some chemical giant!

  36. #96

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    A genuinely interesting thread.
    Wish I could say it more often.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by vinramani09 View Post
    ^ I don't think he said anything wrong, and there is nothing vitriolic at all lol. I and many BNers concur with Renato's viewpoint.
    Me for one.
    I didn't see any vitriol in his post.

  37. #97

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Back in 2004 when I joined this was small, cozy and genuinely enthusiastic place to discuss fragrances. Most members were regulars and really into fragrances. Few years from this and basenotes started to get insane number of hits which resulted in endless pointless threads with not so well thought content: people were constantly searching for pantydroppers and what not. There also weren't that many niche houses around. People generally felt that more than $100 for a fragrance is outrageous. MPG, Villoresi, L'Artisan and Malle were the defining niche houses if I recall correctly - and of course Creed. I really miss those days: Basenotes was smaller but quality was much higher - same applies to niche market.

    Some of you say that basenoters is nowadays better because there is no elitism. Well, since mindless relativism has took over, of course there isn't. I happen to think that certain kind of elitism is fine: not all fragrances are created equal. Basically all experienced noses grow out of synthetic designer crap that is sold to us this day. Why? Because they are thin and one-dimensional and lacking of balance and substance. It's nowadays common to think that all opinions are just as valuable and that there is no such thing as "good fragrance" or "bad fragrance". I think this attitude is highly detrimental and quite simply wrong. As if there wouldn't be any sort of inter-subjectivity, as if cultivated noses wouldn't perceive fragrances in more or less similarly. Complete relativism about fragrances is just as dumb stance as its opposite, realism about aesthetical values. There are options in between. This relativism makes no sense: if we think that people smell things differently and everybody just has his opinion and all are just as informed and good, why do we bother to post here in the first place, or why do we read reviews?

    In simpler terms: if somebody tells me that Versace Eros is the best fragrance ever, I quite frankly believe that he needs to smell more fragrances in order to make better judgements about them. This point should never be made condescendingly, so in this sense of the word I of course dislike elitism.

  38. #98

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Ludlow View Post
    Back in 2004 when I joined this was small, cozy and genuinely enthusiastic place to discuss fragrances. Most members were regulars and really into fragrances. Few years from this and basenotes started to get insane number of hits which resulted in endless pointless threads with not so well thought content: people were constantly searching for pantydroppers and what not. There also weren't that many niche houses around. People generally felt that more than $100 for a fragrance is outrageous. MPG, Villoresi, L'Artisan and Malle were the defining niche houses if I recall correctly - and of course Creed. I really miss those days: Basenotes was smaller but quality was much higher - same applies to niche market.

    Some of you say that basenoters is nowadays better because there is no elitism. Well, since mindless relativism has took over, of course there isn't. I happen to think that certain kind of elitism is fine: not all fragrances are created equal. Basically all experienced noses grow out of synthetic designer crap that is sold to us this day. Why? Because they are thin and one-dimensional and lacking of balance and substance. It's nowadays common to think that all opinions are just as valuable and that there is no such thing as "good fragrance" or "bad fragrance". I think this attitude is highly detrimental and quite simply wrong. As if there wouldn't be any sort of inter-subjectivity, as if cultivated noses wouldn't perceive fragrances in more or less similarly. Complete relativism about fragrances is just as dumb stance as its opposite, realism about aesthetical values. There are options in between. This relativism makes no sense: if we think that people smell things differently and everybody just has his opinion and all are just as informed and good, why do we bother to post here in the first place, or why do we read reviews?

    In simpler terms: if somebody tells me that Versace Eros is the best fragrance ever, I quite frankly believe that he needs to smell more fragrances in order to make better judgements about them. This point should never be made condescendingly, so in this sense of the word I of course dislike elitism.


    I totally agree with Johnny. I hate relativism. As a scientist I am always trying to find scales and patterns. I don't agree with "relativizing" everything. Even art can be evaluated. Not everything has the same value.

  39. #99

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Change is inevitable and I ignore the inane threads.
    Based on the gender discussion within this thread, there is one change I would love to see on Basenotes.
    And that would be the creation of a Non-Gender-Specific Fragrance Discussion forum option (just as we have the male and female ones) where people like myself (who will use fragrances aimed at men, women, intersex and trans people, whoever, as long as they are of interest) can go instead of constantly having to shoehorn things into male/female. I agree with Kagey that perfumes are gendered only by cultural association. My own perfume journey is about the discovery of exciting fragrances and the whole masculine/feminine thing is a big yawn for me. I have no wish to tell any man that they should wear perfumes marketed at women if that's clearly not their thing; I just want the space to talk about perfume as perfume without all the gender/sexuality distraction. If Basenotes could offer that option some day, that would be lovely.
    The few members I have interacted with so far have been unfailingly welcoming and kind.
    I, too, miss Vibert (I lurked for ages before joining).

  40. #100

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I used to visit this forum 5 years ago, and I can tell you guys that there seems to be a crucial difference between now and then. In the past, there was a large population of very powerful basenoters, who were capable of analyzing complex pyramids of notes and had a strong focus on "older" or classical fragrances (including the more modern classics). They recommended those ragrances that resisted the test of time or that were almost a consensus among experts in terms of quality.

    In the present, the forum seems to be populated or attended by relatively less experienced basenoters, who tend to focus on more modern fragrances, which do not have the benefit of having survived the test of time. The forum got younger. It is a younger crowd.

    Another thing that I noticed: There were creed fanatics then, as there are now, but I don´t remember finding such a cult following for a fragrance as we now find for Aventus. Aventus is a god-like fragrance here.

    These are my first impressions from a limited sample of messages that I've read here during the last few days. I may be totally wrong in what I have just said. But this is my first impression. I am being honest.
    There's room for everyone. Inclusivity is the way forward.

  41. #101

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Ludlow View Post
    Back in 2004 when I joined this was small, cozy and genuinely enthusiastic place to discuss fragrances. Most members were regulars and really into fragrances. Few years from this and basenotes started to get insane number of hits which resulted in endless pointless threads with not so well thought content: people were constantly searching for pantydroppers and what not. There also weren't that many niche houses around. People generally felt that more than $100 for a fragrance is outrageous. MPG, Villoresi, L'Artisan and Malle were the defining niche houses if I recall correctly - and of course Creed. I really miss those days: Basenotes was smaller but quality was much higher - same applies to niche market.

    Some of you say that basenoters is nowadays better because there is no elitism. Well, since mindless relativism has took over, of course there isn't. I happen to think that certain kind of elitism is fine: not all fragrances are created equal. Basically all experienced noses grow out of synthetic designer crap that is sold to us this day. Why? Because they are thin and one-dimensional and lacking of balance and substance. It's nowadays common to think that all opinions are just as valuable and that there is no such thing as "good fragrance" or "bad fragrance". I think this attitude is highly detrimental and quite simply wrong. As if there wouldn't be any sort of inter-subjectivity, as if cultivated noses wouldn't perceive fragrances in more or less similarly. Complete relativism about fragrances is just as dumb stance as its opposite, realism about aesthetical values. There are options in between. This relativism makes no sense: if we think that people smell things differently and everybody just has his opinion and all are just as informed and good, why do we bother to post here in the first place, or why do we read reviews?

    In simpler terms: if somebody tells me that Versace Eros is the best fragrance ever, I quite frankly believe that he needs to smell more fragrances in order to make better judgements about them. This point should never be made condescendingly, so in this sense of the word I of course dislike elitism.
    Hear hear! I agree with this!

  42. #102

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Versace Eros IS the best fragrance ever.

  43. #103
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by skism View Post
    Versace Eros IS the best fragrance ever.
    Yes it is........ relativistically speaking.

  44. #104
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by skism View Post
    Versace Eros IS the best fragrance ever.
    Is that feminine or masculine? I won't wear it if it's feminine.

  45. #105

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    The world is in a state of flux -- why should this avoid Basenotes. I enjoy it now as much as I ever did. The King is dead -- long live the King. I do enjoy a good 'tear-up' occasionally, but this rarely involves fragrances -- more off-piste topics.

  46. #106

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    Such vitriol! So people who prefer not to see fragrance through a masculine/feminine lens or hew to the dictates of marketing when selecting a perfume are idiots who "can't do what a three year-old can do inately" [sic] ??

    You generalize too much. First, some of us don't believe that a person understands 'feminine' or 'masculine' smells innately. Some of us think that smells don't inherently have gender at all, and that gender assigned to fragrances is purely due to association.

    Second, it's not that we are unable to distinguish scents that are traditionally seen as 'masculine' or 'feminine.' It's that we choose not to let those traditional distinctions dictate what we like or wear.

    Third, I don't like insulting anyone, and I'm pretty sure that I've avoided doing that in taking part in the discussions about masculinity and femininity in fragrance. So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make sweeping insulting generalizations about people who disagree with you.
    Your premise is either incorrect or confused. I referred specifically to people who have asserted that they could not see the difference between male and female scents (which includes a number of reviewers who have written books) - which appears to include you by your first paragraph. I have to take them at their word that they cannot do so, and assume it's a bit like my being partly colour blind.

    But by your second paragraph you appear to be saying that you can tell the difference between masculine and feminine scents, but that you chose not to be bound by that. So I'm not sure what you are upset about, as I plainly wrote that I have no issue with people wearing what they want, my only issue being with airs of superiority or putting others down for not doing as they do.

    I don't go around saying I'm superior because I don't see as many colours as others do, even though I can see some colours that regular visioned people can't see.
    Regards,
    Renato

  47. #107

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by david View Post
    I have returned ~ and hope that the depth of my threads/posts proves that I am genuinely passionate about fragrances.
    No doubt about that. I,personally, think you have proved it. I really enjoy your posts.

    It is sad that some great reviewers left BN for some reasons and maybe ,who knows, they will return, like David did, but I think ,we still have very good reviewers. . ( Old and New ones) . So maybe we should be greatful for that.

  48. #108

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    This Forum is much better now.
    Five years ago there was a strong group of supposedly experienced Basenoters, who took it upon themselves to continually push for men to wear women's scent because the women's scents were superior, and virtually all but a few masculine scents were rubbish - while at the same time arguing the exact opposite proposition that scents had no gender (so how come most of the "mens" scents were rubbish?).

    Time and again, I'd get ultra annoyed - sure wear anything you like, but stop casting yourself as superior because you wear women's scents, and stop continually bashing the masculine scents and inferring that those who liked masculine scents had less refined noses. This did lead to quite a few heated exchanges at the time.

    Yes, there is less emphasis on classic scents here now, but it's also less elitist/snobbish than it was back then for a while. Also, as I've noticed with my nephews, they really don't like a lot of those classic scents very much at all.
    Regards,
    Renato
    I agree. I have been in multiple of these heated exchanges about the gender discussion.
    That being said, I don't think the forum is much better now. I miss most of the old members.
    The problem is that a lot of people who like this hobby have a huge ego.

  49. #109
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    it's a new generation. time for newbies and oldies to step up. this site is a great site for men and the few women i guess. without basenotes i would never had the likes of trying something niche such as commes des garcons and le labo. i am an urbanite that thanx grant for his creativeness in the highest regard.

  50. #110
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Change is inevitable, whether in everyday life or cyberspace - better to try and be philosophical about it. I certainly miss old-school members who have disappeared for whatever reason, but also find many new recruits have plenty to contribute too. I do sometimes get irritated by people's increasing inability to use the search function and by the vitriol some threads provoke, but I would still never be without BN. Personally, I have found the female boards to be a wonderful retreat here. I was made welcome instantly, and have developed a unique camaraderie with many there. The female boards are packed with erudite and caring members who share their life experiences and passion for fragrance without resorting to tit-for-tat oneupmanship. They are non-judgemental, elitism is absent, and whether I wear Creed or some steal from the bargain basement I will still be treated with the utmost kindness and respect. Despite the niggles, downtimes, etc BN will always be my forum of choice. There is still plenty here - it's just a case of knowing where to look to separate the wheat from the chaff.

  51. #111

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Good discussion.
    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    In the past, there was a large population of very powerful basenoters, who were capable of analyzing complex pyramids of notes
    Maybe, when you first joined, you were less experienced than you are now, and so the big Basenotes posters seemed to be very knowledgeable. Now, you are more experienced, so similar posts by people who are on the site now don't impress you like they may have years ago.


    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    In the present, the forum seems to be populated or attended by relatively less experienced basenoters, who tend to focus on more modern fragrances, which do not have the benefit of having survived the test of time.
    I do agree that a great deal of knowledge and personality is gone now - many just up and left, and some have been banned. That also hurts the BN community. Perhaps new members will eventually fill the void.

    You say people are discussing fragrances that "do not have the benefit of having survived the test of time" -- I'm not sure I understand why that matters - If I like a fragrance, I don't care if it just came out, or if it has been around for 200 years like Creed Royal English Leather (). Needing to wait to find out if a fragrance should be deemed a classic, and thus worthy of discussion sounds like you are waiting for others to determine its merits for you. From what I have noticed on Basenotes, most people seem to be a bit more independent in thought, and are able to decide what is a great fragrance regardless of long-term consensus. If you wait for others to determine the attributes of a fragrance before you can discuss it... how will it ever get discussed? The only "test of time" a fragrance needs for me, is: TOP--> HEART--> BASE.


    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    Another thing that I noticed: There were creed fanatics then, as there are now, but I don´t remember finding such a cult following for a fragrance as we now find for Aventus. Aventus is a god-like fragrance here.
    Agreed, some of the Creed posts are silly (some even intentionally so) - recommending Aventus for any / all possible "what should I buy/wear/etc." situations. But the most annoying thing lately is the Anti-Creed threads started. It seems they are outnumbering the Creed-love threads 2:1, and they contribute even less -- people complain about 2 similar threads about topic X makes it harder to search. Well, looking at 2 threads about the topic they are looking for is far better than looking through 3 - where one is not about topic X, but actually just to insult people talking about topic X. Additional discussions are not much of a difficultly to overcome - searching through things that have nothing that will help the individual searching on a topic is an unnecessary difficulty.

    When I first began lurking and later joined, the love was all Pure Malt, Back to Black, GIT, any vintage feminine fragrance, and DHI. In a few years from now, there will be new hot topics... I'm just not sure who among us will still be around to complain about them.

  52. #112

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Suppressor View Post
    I agree. I have been in multiple of these heated exchanges about the gender discussion.
    That being said, I don't think the forum is much better now. I miss most of the old members.
    The problem is that a lot of people who like this hobby have a huge ego.
    I miss a lot of the old members from 2001 - they were quite a crew back then! I remember one railing at all the girlie scents coming out for men, and wondering whatever happened to real men's scents, and that the one in question was so damned girlie he couldn't understand it. He was referring to Boss Bottled (No.6).

    I've been a member of quite a lot of clubs, societies and other associations. One has to accept that there is just a lot of turnover in most groups.

    Although I have to admit that we have lost a couple of members with incredible expertise.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  53. #113

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by jbthorpe View Post
    I've been a BN member for several years and a frequent visitor for quite a while before joining and it always amazes me when members start posting comments about what a "terrible job" Grant and other BN administrators are doing with the site. If you hate the site so much why do you keep coming back? I'm sure keeping up the BN website isn't the only thing Grant does with his time. I don't personally know him and don't know much about him, but I'm sure he has a regular 9-5 job and maintains this website in his spare time. I'm just glad to have access to a website like Basenotes - and no, I'm not trying to kiss Grant's butt. I'm being 100% honest.

    It drives me nuts when people start bashing the administrators here, and 99% of the time those that are complaining are not monetary contributors, so access to this site is free to them. Yeah, I know, you're going to comment about how I don't contribute money either - well, I'm not the one complaining about the website. I really enjoy spending time on Basenotes and have learned a lot from the members here. I've also had several opportunities to to trades, splits, purchases, etc. here and I appreciate the site for that.
    I completely agree. Its like complaining about your friends house when he is letting you live there for free. If you don't like it...LEAVE!...its really that simple. And maybe some of the more mature (experienced) BNs left because of the influx of immature people who apparently feel entitled to BN and that apparently Grant owes them something. Let me state clearly to those who feel that way...Grant owes you nothing. I somehow believe that if he closed this place down for good, you would be the first people to complain.

    Regards,
    Steve
    Last edited by sjas1962; 22nd March 2013 at 04:32 PM.

  54. #114
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Although I have to admit that we have lost a couple of members with incredible expertise.
    Cheers,
    Renato
    Unfortunately, that is the same with many forums. I have belonged to numerous Classic Car forums over the years, and have experienced the same.

    Many left because life moved on and they had other priorities, lost the passion, or just got tired of of new people coming on thinking they know everything, instead of taking the time to learn.

    One thing mama taught me as a little boy, if you do not know something or have nothing nice to say, just don't say it. Too many times I see posts where they really could learn a lesson from my mama's wise words of wisdom.

  55. #115
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by JON RODGERS View Post
    Change is inevitable, whether in everyday life or cyberspace - better to try and be philosophical about it. I certainly miss old-school members who have disappeared for whatever reason, but also find many new recruits have plenty to contribute too. I do sometimes get irritated by people's increasing inability to use the search function and by the vitriol some threads provoke, but I would still never be without BN. Personally, I have found the female boards to be a wonderful retreat here. I was made welcome instantly, and have developed a unique camaraderie with many there. The female boards are packed with erudite and caring members who share their life experiences and passion for fragrance without resorting to tit-for-tat oneupmanship. They are non-judgemental, elitism is absent, and whether I wear Creed or some steal from the bargain basement I will still be treated with the utmost kindness and respect. Despite the niggles, downtimes, etc BN will always be my forum of choice. There is still plenty here - it's just a case of knowing where to look to separate the wheat from the chaff.
    Well put Jon, nice post.
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

  56. #116
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Change is inevitable. People come and go. Sometimes it's simply a question of a glass being half full or half empty. You choose.
    Those who complain over the lack of thought-provoking threads are more than welcome to start one but they don't. Why not? It beats bitching about it.

    I also keep hearing words like 'snobbery' and 'elitism' being bandied about but I often wonder if misconstrued meaning is the true culprit, what with written English being such an imprecise language of communication. Do newcomers feel intimidated by a veteran's larger post counts that they feel browbeaten when none was intended? Perhaps. I don't know. But I do wish we treat each other with a little more respect and offer others some benefit of the doubt when things don't go the way we hope they would. There must be room to respect differences as we all come with different backgrounds, different experiences. It's seldom a question of who's right and who's wrong.

    For all its shortcomings Basenotes is still a fragrance haven at least to me. Use the search function wisely and you can still benefit from the distilled wisdom from great BNers like scentemental. There are still good people here, prolific reviewers, industrious split hosts and boards where you can learn from generous teachers such as Chris B and David R. If you choose to use BN to start inane threads then the real problem lies with you not BN. If you choose to do nothing but moan about the sorry state of affairs again the fault lies with you. You decide.

    To everyone on Basenotes, stay fragrant, keep on sniffing and keep on learning. Knowledge should make one humble, not turn one into a pompous ass. For the more we know the greater the realization that there is so much more we don't know.
    Last edited by Diamondflame; 22nd March 2013 at 04:58 PM.

  57. #117

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I don't really have a position in this 'debate' as I'm quite new (although I will say I have benefited tremendously from this forum) but I would just like to point out that the argument revolving around 'masculine' and 'feminine' fragrances is a microcosm of the arguments that are visible in societies the world over in regards to gender. Gender, unlike sex, is a social construct that is in constant flux and is contested territory. If the 'Male' and 'Female' forums were representative of fragrances as they are categorized, they should rather be entitled 'Masculine' and 'Feminine'. 'Male' and 'Female' refers to sex, that is more so biology rather than socially crafted guidelines. And just like men can wear pink t-shirts and not forfeit their 'masculinity' so men should, in theory, be able to wear fragrances that are categorized as 'feminine', and vice versa. But because we live in an often polarizing society, men tend to steer clear of fragrances created and marketed for women. Arguments against societal standards are nothing new. At heart they are attempts to break both men and women out of the marketing and societal influences they have succumbed to. How they are presented and perceived is a different story. Solution is easy, market everything as unisex .

  58. #118
    vita odorifera
    perfaddict's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I joined Basenotes in 2009, about 32 years after i started using frags on a daily basis. I had used easily hundreds of designer and non-designer, far-from-niche frags. I would have thought i was an authority within the (i was then humbled to realise) narrow fragrance world i lived in at the time. Basenotes was a revelation; the Review and Discussion boards opening a new world to me. I realised i was limited in knowledge. Niche was no longer a corner or market segment. Pyramids no longer exclusively brought up images of Ancient Egypt in my mind. My wardrobe exploded in quantity and Wifey thought i had gone nuts but appreciated my staying home more with Basenotes.

    Basenotes has definitely changed, for most of the well stated reasons above. I wish it could remain or be even better than what it used to be, in terms of depth of discussion, education, etc. But life is all about change, and one needs to adapt. In most associations, people come and people go, and dynamics are altered one way or the other. However, in general, i still think Basenotes is a relatively interesting and educating forum. It has its (serious) issues, but i have determined in myself to remain a part of it. Basenotes has become part of my life (yes, one may say its just internet space) plus i have made some real-life friends here. The only positive thing i can do is play my small part in making it what i wish it could be. Leaving because of all the increasingly negative reasons just has not occured to me as an option. I owuldnt want to "know what was good when its gone".

    Kudos to the OP for bringing this topic up, and to everyone for their insight.
    ointments and perfume delight the heart....

    #BBOG!

  59. #119

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Snobbism is good when manifested as a combination of object-fetischism and self-irony.

    Snobbism is bad when manifested as a combination of ownership-claim and ego-sensitivity.

    When hobby forums get dominated by the bad sort, the forum turns vile and pathetic.

  60. #120
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Very well put, perfaddict.

    I have been a fragrance lover for many years of my life, but only joined Basenotes in late 2011 (after lurking for a good while). I enjoyed reading, but didn't jump in to contribute...until recently. My passion for scent has grown since joining Basenotes - and it was already very deep!

    I have to say that I enjoy Basenotes tremendously. Good people. Intelligent and articulate reviews. And, an overall warm community of people who are so gracious, kind and sincere. I don't like conflicts in forums and, quite honestly, have always left forums that have too much conflict. I come to Basenotes to share, reflect and correspond...not banter. Let the Creed batches continue for those who want to discuss. Let the latest niche Oud offering take its turn in the spotlight. Let people have their opinion.

    I, too, have made real-life friends on this site and am grateful for it. Being the guy who 'always smelled good' wasn't understood in society, but compliments are always nice. What I like is how the passion has evolved into sharing knowledge and pertinent information. We live in changing times and this site is a reflection of that. My love for Vintage scents will always be part of me - as quality is of utmost importance. However, I am willing to listen to what others say.

    I am honored to come here and feel "welcome" by people around the world who share in this unique, olfactory hobby. Realizing that all of us have a unique and subjective understanding and nose. I have come back to a lot of scents that I haven't had in years and, quite frankly, didn't pursue buying them after reformulation. IFRA is partially responsible for my involvement here on Basenotes. If things were, "the way they were"...I would still have the love of scent, but much less to discuss.

    There is nothing here that I see as negative - just purely subjective. Keep it simple - share, learn and take what you want and leave the rest behind. Everyone's opinion is welcome. There is no wrong opinion. One could be wrong about facts - and that is a key difference, but to each their own when it comes to taste. I admire the breadth and depth of knowledge here and will remain a loyal member. I am thankful for Basenotes...and what makes it what it is, is the people who are part of the community.

    To my fellow Basenoters - enjoy life and keep the passion for scent alive!

    Cheers,

    ericrico



    Quote Originally Posted by perfaddict View Post
    I joined Basenotes in 2009, about 32 years after i started using frags on a daily basis. I had used easily hundreds of designer and non-designer, far-from-niche frags. I would have thought i was an authority within the (i was then humbled to realise) narrow fragrance world i lived in at the time. Basenotes was a revelation; the Review and Discussion boards opening a new world to me. I realised i was limited in knowledge. Niche was no longer a corner or market segment. Pyramids no longer exclusively brought up images of Ancient Egypt in my mind. My wardrobe exploded in quantity and Wifey thought i had gone nuts but appreciated my staying home more with Basenotes.

    Basenotes has definitely changed, for most of the well stated reasons above. I wish it could remain or be even better than what it used to be, in terms of depth of discussion, education, etc. But life is all about change, and one needs to adapt. In most associations, people come and people go, and dynamics are altered one way or the other. However, in general, i still think Basenotes is a relatively interesting and educating forum. It has its (serious) issues, but i have determined in myself to remain a part of it. Basenotes has become part of my life (yes, one may say its just internet space) plus i have made some real-life friends here. The only positive thing i can do is play my small part in making it what i wish it could be. Leaving because of all the increasingly negative reasons just has not occured to me as an option. I owuldnt want to "know what was good when its gone".

    Kudos to the OP for bringing this topic up, and to everyone for their insight.
    “Some perfumes are as fragrant as an infant’s flesh, sweet as an oboe’s cry, and greener than the spring; While others are triumphant, decadent or rich; Having the expansion of infinite things, like ambergris and musk, benzoin and frankincense, which sing the transports of the mind and every sense.”

    ― Charles Baudelaire, The Flowers of Evil & Paris Spleen

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