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  1. #121

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by NYCBoomBoom View Post
    I don't really have a position in this 'debate' as I'm quite new (although I will say I have benefited tremendously from this forum) but I would just like to point out that the argument revolving around 'masculine' and 'feminine' fragrances is a microcosm of the arguments that are visible in societies the world over in regards to gender. Gender, unlike sex, is a social construct that is in constant flux and is contested territory. If the 'Male' and 'Female' forums were representative of fragrances as they are categorized, they should rather be entitled 'Masculine' and 'Feminine'. 'Male' and 'Female' refers to sex, that is more so biology rather than socially crafted guidelines. And just like men can wear pink t-shirts and not forfeit their 'masculinity' so men should, in theory, be able to wear fragrances that are categorized as 'feminine', and vice versa. But because we live in an often polarizing society, men tend to steer clear of fragrances created and marketed for women. Arguments against societal standards are nothing new. At heart they are attempts to break both men and women out of the marketing and societal influences they have succumbed to. How they are presented and perceived is a different story. Solution is easy, market everything as unisex .
    Based on the responses in this thread, I think BN is going to be just fine as long as the software doesn't crap out or fall too far behind.

    And in the meantime, any of you who want to friend me on FB, please do. https://www.facebook.com/rabbi.mars.chen

  2. #122

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    On other forums and social networks BN's are often described as snobs.

    And now a thread like this is started.
    Last edited by TLS; 22nd March 2013 at 08:01 PM.

  3. #123
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I was fairly into BN in the early 2000's, wandered off for a while and have come back in the past 6 months or so. Back then there were some people who posted a lot and some people who didn't post much. There were people who had brilliant insight into fragrances and were well able to express it and there were people who were more just idly curious. There were newbies and there were experienced people.

    And any combination of the above.

    Same as now.

  4. #124
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    There are numerous threads with just numbering , every subject that requires more then 3 mins time to answer is neglected.

    Perfumes are much less of an art and more of a profit game then it used to be....so quality talk disappeared with it........

    I am so thankful to people with knowledge here who have time to answer newbies questions:-) and am so sorry those blind sniffs not taking place anymore....used to be great learning and fun!!

    A lot is happening in the last 2 years for worse: IFRA, now post issues....hm....... so the public of forums is changing too......and will change in the line with perfume quality

  5. #125

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Basenotes has become a lot more like Walmart, but there are still exceptional reviewers and posters.
    Sombody needs to start a "People of Basenotes" site.

  6. #126
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by gimmegreen View Post
    Change is inevitable and I ignore the inane threads.
    Based on the gender discussion within this thread, there is one change I would love to see on Basenotes.
    And that would be the creation of a Non-Gender-Specific Fragrance Discussion forum option (just as we have the male and female ones) where people like myself (who will use fragrances aimed at men, women, intersex and trans people, whoever, as long as they are of interest) can go instead of constantly having to shoehorn things into male/female. I agree with Kagey that perfumes are gendered only by cultural association. My own perfume journey is about the discovery of exciting fragrances and the whole masculine/feminine thing is a big yawn for me. I have no wish to tell any man that they should wear perfumes marketed at women if that's clearly not their thing; I just want the space to talk about perfume as perfume without all the gender/sexuality distraction. If Basenotes could offer that option some day, that would be lovely.
    The few members I have interacted with so far have been unfailingly welcoming and kind.
    I, too, miss Vibert (I lurked for ages before joining).
    The "Fragrance Industry" forum performs the "Unisex" role for the most part.

    In any case, the way I see it is not "(Fe)Male-Fragrance Discussion" but rather "(Fe)Male Fragrance-Discussion." The important differences between the forums are in the users, not the products discussed. The Male forum is full of assertiveness, competition, and testosterone, and the Female forum is full of receptivity, inclusiveness, and estrogen. I find the contrast stimulating and wouldn't have it any other way.

  7. #127
    Dependent bigsteve's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    On other forums and social networks BN's are often described as snobs.

    And now a thread like this is started.
    Excellent point. I think some people are taking this stuff *way* too seriously. Just have fun with it, people.
    ----- People laugh at me because I'm different.... I laugh at them because they're all the same -----

  8. #128

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    BN's versatility is a big plus. It's technical problems the main drawback.

  9. #129

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Some of us have joined to read the very good reviews and learn more about something we love. And it is great to be able to search what people who have knowledge have posted previously.

    Why age could be an issue, I don't know........being a younger member doesn't mean you can't have an appreciation of both older and new perfume houses.

    Time might be an issue as well. Would love to have the time to read more about the complexity of notes and the pyramids and so on .

    While I love fragrance.....it is not one of the main things in my life at the moment.

    The downside about joining BN for me is now storage issues!!!!!!!
    When we come to the other world and meet the millions of Jews who died in the camps and they ask *what have you done for us*.......I will say * I did not forget you*. Simon Wiesenthal

  10. #130

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Kouros

  11. #131

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Every now and then I have to do a long drive in the country for my work. I usually stop by a McDonald's somewhere out in the sticks for breakfast. Seems that almost every time I do that I encounter a table full of old, crotchety guys talking loudly about how things were so much better back then, and things are all going to hell now. I am terrified of becoming one of those guys.

  12. #132

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    On other forums and social networks BN's are often described as snobs.

    And now a thread like this is started.
    Nothing wrong with that IMO. People have standards and viewpoints...etc. Snob does not equal elitist, so it's all good.
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Nicole Miller (vintage), Opium pour Homme, Oxford & Cambridge...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of Jil Sander Feeling Man, Cacharel Nemo, Bijan for Men EDC, Lanvin for Men, Giorgio VIP, Il Lancetti and other old school frags ....etc. I have samples to swap.

    More HERE
    Please PM me !

  13. #133

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    On other forums and social networks BN's are often described as snobs.

    And now a thread like this is started.
    Hmmm...

    this must come down to personal things, because I don't find people on BN to be even remotely snobbish, at least not towards me. BN would have to be the friendliest group that I belong to.

  14. #134
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Hi laroche -

    Always love your input - to the point.

    One word..."Kouros". It very well may be the answer to our human existence.

    Cheers,

    ericrico

    Quote Originally Posted by laroche View Post
    Kouros
    “Some perfumes are as fragrant as an infant’s flesh, sweet as an oboe’s cry, and greener than the spring; While others are triumphant, decadent or rich; Having the expansion of infinite things, like ambergris and musk, benzoin and frankincense, which sing the transports of the mind and every sense.”

    ― Charles Baudelaire, The Flowers of Evil & Paris Spleen

  15. #135

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by ericrico View Post
    Hi laroche -

    Always love your input - to the point.

    One word..."Kouros". It very well may be the answer to our human existence.

    Cheers,

    ericrico


    Laroche's all purpose posts can fit into any thread there is..

  16. #136

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Anyone have any samples to give away?
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  17. #137

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Old classics are not happening with the newer generations. We are moving onto newer things. Fresh, gourmand, vibrant, 'sexy'. Anything with a 'classic' smell reminds the new generations of dad, grandpa, grandma...who wants that?

    I expect the same thing to happen in another decade or so.

  18. #138

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Old classics are not happening with the newer generations. We are moving onto newer things. Fresh, gourmand, vibrant, 'sexy'. Anything with a 'classic' smell reminds the new generations of dad, grandpa, grandma...who wants that?

    I expect the same thing to happen in another decade or so.
    I went into this "hobby" without preconceptions. Over time, many if not most of the "vibrant" recent ones made me feel ill, along with some of the older ones (always reformulations or "drug store" ones). The point is that sensitivity can change and can result in a desire to smell scents but without a tolerance for the synthetic overload of recent non-niche (and many niche) ones on the market now.

  19. #139

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    A bit of droll snobbery by semi-bitter, mature fragheads is nothing bad at all when it comes to fragrances and made BN stand out a little. The (young American) dorm vibe can be found on plenty of other websites already.

  20. #140

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I was addicted to this site, left for awhile, and now am back. I have noticed less "quality" and more "quantity" of posts. I notice MANY great people being banned without seeing a "smoking gun" post as to why. I notice people seem to read the first one or two posts in a thread, ignore the rest, skip to the end and write exactly the same thing someone else did a few posts up...as if the goal is to post 1,000 posts. I try hard to listen more and speak less, it is hard sometimes. I see more people posting threads that are identical to threads already on BN, PLEASE use the search box, if you have a question, chances are others have posted about it. I see so many Creed threads that I wish there was a temporary forum for Creed. This is the best fragrance site on the internet, and I hope the issues will be resolved...
    Last edited by Ornithorhynchusanatinus; 23rd March 2013 at 11:42 AM.

  21. #141

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    One thing that I have disliked (agreeing with Renato here) is when someone would create a post like "Shalimar is the greatest frag of all time" in the Men's Forum. The fact that there are gender forums here suggests that there are conventions involved. If you want to create a post with a title like "Why I consider Shalimar unisex" I don't mind that in the men's forum, though I may not read it. If you want to create a post entitled "Why I am wearing more women's frags these days" and explain why in detail, I don't mind that in the men's forum either (I'm assuming it would be written by a guy). In other words, there has to be some connection to the notion of gender distinctions, even if the post itself is about how you came to find them no longer useful.

  22. #142

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by G Man View Post
    Old classics are not happening with the newer generations. We are moving onto newer things. Fresh, gourmand, vibrant, 'sexy'. Anything with a 'classic' smell reminds the new generations of dad, grandpa, grandma...who wants that?

    I expect the same thing to happen in another decade or so.

    fair point I suppose.
    I am tempted to see the "new generation" of scents as part of a dumbing down of standards going hand in hand with that of popular culture in general.
    Think XFactor, Sky, Fox for example..

  23. #143

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithorhynchusanatinus View Post
    ...I see so many Creed threads that I wish there was a temporary forum for Creed...
    I'd like to see new threads tacked on to recent threads that are basically the same, to cut down on the clutter, as well as threads moved to more relevant forums. For example, "How do I make a frag similar to Aventus" should be in DIY, not Men's. However, from what I understand, the moderators are volunteers, so I assume they are doing their best with the time they have available to moderate.

  24. #144

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Read the Creed Royal Blue thread and tell me our poster quality has not gone down.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    A bit of droll snobbery by semi-bitter, mature fragheads is nothing bad at all when it comes to fragrances and made BN stand out a little. The (young American) dorm vibe can be found on plenty of other websites already.
    Here here. I too stand for droll snobbery, bitterness and maturity in fragrance users. Well said.

  26. #146
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    A bit of droll snobbery by semi-bitter, mature fragheads is nothing bad at all when it comes to fragrances and made BN stand out a little. The (young American) dorm vibe can be found on plenty of other websites already.
    Please explain young American dorm vibe. I have no idea what that is.

  27. #147

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Ornithorhynchusanatinus View Post
    I have noticed less "quality" and more "quantity" of posts.
    I agree.
    I have been here from the beginning. I use to read just about every thread. I'm guessing that changed around three or four years ago. Now I might read five or six at most on the first page. Take from that what you will.

    I hope that doesn't make me come of as snobbish. Because nothing could be further from the truth. I think I am pretty knowledgable about fragrances, but in no way do I think or act like I know more than everyone else. I only wish I could write, explain and review half as good as other members past and present. I have a hard time putting into words what's in my head. I don't want to embarrass myself. That is why I don't post that often. And if I do, it's usually short and sweet.

    I hope I don't come off as narcissistic, because of all the "I"s.
    Last edited by ajmc; 23rd March 2013 at 06:21 PM.
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  28. #148

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I think this forum is still very helpful. Although sometimes I get frustrated by people who recommend vintage formulations which are most times impossible to obtain. IMO people want to know about a fragrance they can purchase now whether online or a store.

    I bet a lot of old timers gave up since the market is flooded with so much crap. How long can you talk about "what once was " ? After a while you've said all you can about the fragrances you know. If you aren't experiencing anything new then your input is somewhat limited.

    Sometimes I curse at myself for finding this website. I've wasted so much money on crap but at the same time I found 2 scents currently available that work very well for me. I would have never known about luckyscent.com and niche if it wasn't for this site. I guess it comes with a price.

  29. #149

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by timmy-j View Post
    Please explain young American dorm vibe. I have no idea what that is.
    In musical terms: "Yeaaah! The boring semi-bitter stuffed eggheads who pushed Beethoven and Brahms down our throats were finally excommunicated.... now we can be ourselves and pat each other on the back while singing praises to the genius of Killah Priest, Jay-Z, and The Bieber."

    PS Not asserting, just translating

  30. #150

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    As an extremely new member I'd like to say that while I missed out on the Golden Age of BN (all fora seem to have golden ages - they've always ended just before you join) it is still an extremely interesting, entertaining and educational place to spend a couple of hours. I'm afraid I'm one of the tail-wagging newcomers cluttering up the Male Fragrance Discussion forum but it seems churlish to lurk without contributing. My main interest is not, actually, as a consumer. I'm far more interested in the concept of perfume and of things pertaining to the senses and I'm quite happy to read, say, Aventus reviews if they're well-written because they explain something about our relationship to scent. I really enjoy the literary standard that seems to be the norm here. I'm learning a great deal and I hope I'll continue to do so.

  31. #151

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OdilonRedon View Post
    I'm afraid I'm one of the tail-wagging newcomers cluttering up the Male Fragrance Discussion forum but it seems churlish to lurk without contributing. My main interest is not, actually, as a consumer. I'm far more interested in the concept of perfume and of things pertaining to the senses and I'm quite happy to read, say, Aventus reviews if they're well-written because they explain something about our relationship to scent. I really enjoy the literary standard that seems to be the norm here. I'm learning a great deal and I hope I'll continue to do so.
    Welcome to BN.

    Don't sell yourself short.
    Because your looking at it from a different angle, I for one am greatly interested in your views.
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  32. #152

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlesslySurprised View Post
    In musical terms: "Yeaaah! The boring semi-bitter stuffed eggheads who pushed Beethoven and Brahms down our throats were finally excommunicated.... now we can be ourselves and pat each other on the back while singing praises to the genius of Killah Priest, Jay-Z, and The Bieber."

    PS Not asserting, just translating

    Hey......








    Leave Killah Priest out of this.

  33. #153
    treeman5823
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    You know what I wish? I wish that the male and female forums would merge.

  34. #154

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman5823 View Post
    You know what I wish? I wish that the male and female forums would merge.
    I'm of the opposite view. I will peruse the womens subforum on the odd occasion, although call me closed-minded, but I much prefer to stick to reading about and discussing mens fragrances (or fragrances worn by men) when I log on to BN. I'd much rather have the first page of threads cluttered with Aventus threads and threads complaining about the Aventus threads than have to skim past a tonne of entries that hold absolutely no relevance to me.

    If people want to discuss fragrance free from gender lines, then they can use the General Fragrance Discussion sub-forum. The fact that it is underutilised for this purpose does not mean the existing sub-fora should merge.

  35. #155
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by timdoeswell View Post
    I'm of the opposite view. I will peruse the womens subforum on the odd occasion, although call me closed-minded, but I much prefer to stick to reading about and discussing mens fragrances (or fragrances worn by men) when I log on to BN. I'd much rather have the first page of threads cluttered with Aventus threads and threads complaining about the Aventus threads than have to skim past a tonne of entries that hold absolutely no relevance to me.

    If people want to discuss fragrance free from gender lines, then they can use the General Fragrance Discussion sub-forum. The fact that it is underutilised for this purpose does not mean the existing sub-fora should merge.
    I agree. It's best as it is.
    Last edited by Dernier_Cri; 24th March 2013 at 05:23 AM.

  36. #156
    treeman5823
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by timdoeswell View Post
    I'm of the opposite view. I will peruse the womens subforum on the odd occasion, although call me closed-minded, but I much prefer to stick to reading about and discussing mens fragrances (or fragrances worn by men) when I log on to BN. I'd much rather have the first page of threads cluttered with Aventus threads and threads complaining about the Aventus threads than have to skim past a tonne of entries that hold absolutely no relevance to me.

    If people want to discuss fragrance free from gender lines, then they can use the General Fragrance Discussion sub-forum. The fact that it is underutilised for this purpose does not mean the existing sub-fora should merge.
    But I wear "female" fragrances, so you should, according to your preference of "read[ing] about fragrances worn by men," put up with me and my cross-dressing.

  37. #157

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Please don't merge the forums. It would be wrong.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It is OK to talk about female fragrances worn by men when you are at the male forum.

  38. #158
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Two forums. More choice. Better.


    By the way, DanielPlainview, this has been the most interesting thread around here in quite a while.

  39. #159

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dernier_Cri View Post



    By the way, DanielPlainview, this has been the most interesting thread around here in quite a while.
    I agree.
    It's kind of ironic if you ask me.
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  40. #160

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by treeman5823 View Post
    But I wear "female" fragrances, so you should, according to your preference of "read[ing] about fragrances worn by men," put up with me and my cross-dressing.
    And I like to read about that; it's good to hear about what feminine-targeted frags are good for male wearing. What I wouldn't want, however, is to have to delve through dozens of fragrances specifically and solely about womens fragrances and the women who wear them just to get to a thread that interests me.
    If you want to discuss womens fragrances with men, then there's the mens sub-forum. Want to discuss them with those presumably more familiar? There's the womens sub-forum. Want to engage both genders equally? General discussion.
    It's not like you've nowhere to post any topic you wish to discuss.

    And hell, people can argue until they're blue in the face that the masculine/feminine fragrance distinction is arbitrary and a machination of the advertising agencies, but at the end of the day, it's a convenient way to divide up the fora.

    Besides, the last thing I need is another huge segment of the fragrance market to explore - I'm about to drop $1k on an order

  41. #161

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    1k? Sorry for digressing, but what will it be?

    Thanks Dernier Cri and AJMC.

  42. #162

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I'm just trying to figure out where about 1,600 of my posts count went to. As for the discussion, I, like some other longtime members, find myself scanning thread topics, perhaps reading one or two of interest. There's just a saturation point with certain topics, not to mention there's just too many releases now for one to even attempt to keep up on them all.
    The Bark Bites Back.

  43. #163

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    1k? Sorry for digressing, but what will it be?

    Thanks Dernier Cri and AJMC.
    Chergui and Cuir Mauresque by Lutens, Je Suis un Homme & Rien by ELDO, 1740 & Ambre 114 by HdP, Pen's Sartorial and 3 Slumberhouse frags (Jeke, Pear & Olive and Sova).

  44. #164

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bark View Post
    not to mention there's just too many releases now for one to even attempt to keep up on them all.
    I think it is madness to try to keep up with everything that is new in the market. I would rather wait, let others do the hard work of selecting what is worthy of attention, and then, after a long time, see what stands out and try them out. Why should you do all the hard work and spend your cash and time on hundreds of samples if other people can do that for you?

  45. #165

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    BN used to be a cozy neighborhood bar...where "everybody knows your name". Now it's more like a huge sports bar smack in the middle of a tourist area, with different people coming and going constantly.

    Excuse me while i drop a tear in my beer...
    Are you not entertained??? Is this not why you are here??

  46. #166

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Thankfully the MFD archive is there to read if you fancy a trip back to 2005.
    I guess BN has become a victim of it's own success. Many more people utiliise this forum now than in the past, many more opinions, more posts than you could possibly wade through. The threads that aren't worth your time are easily identified though. The cracks may be showing but still there are many valuable and knowledgable contributors here, great people to learn from and to share opinions and samples with. Hopefully the technical issues can be addressed.

  47. #167

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    If you want more quality posts... then you can post in the appropriate sub forums topics... This has nothing to do with male fragrance sorry. We need people to move threads to their appropriate sub forums to filter things out.

  48. #168
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by OdilonRedon View Post
    As an extremely new member I'd like to say that while I missed out on the Golden Age of BN (all fora seem to have golden ages - they've always ended just before you join) it is still an extremely interesting, entertaining and educational place to spend a couple of hours. I'm afraid I'm one of the tail-wagging newcomers cluttering up the Male Fragrance Discussion forum but it seems churlish to lurk without contributing. My main interest is not, actually, as a consumer. I'm far more interested in the concept of perfume and of things pertaining to the senses and I'm quite happy to read, say, Aventus reviews if they're well-written because they explain something about our relationship to scent. I really enjoy the literary standard that seems to be the norm here. I'm learning a great deal and I hope I'll continue to do so.
    You're thoughtful and you've already made a contribution simply by showing that you are.

    Just watch out for The Committee of Public Safety.

  49. #169

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by timdoeswell View Post
    If you want to discuss womens fragrances with men, then there's the mens sub-forum. Want to discuss them with those presumably more familiar? There's the womens sub-forum. Want to engage both genders equally? General discussion.
    It's not like you've nowhere to post any topic you wish to discuss.
    This sounds like a good alternative - except the General fragrance discussion forum's main purpose isn't about engaging all genders: it's 'For the discussion of more general fragrance topics - fragrance industry, fragrance in society, fragrance history and marketing'. That means it is aiming more at general topics not a general audience as such - it's where one would go to announce new releases or talk about reformulations (though a lot of that happens in the gendered forums). Recently I wanted recommendations for a particular combination of notes, but because I wanted suggestions to not be bound by gender, I had to post it on the 'Just starting out' forum. Still, I suppose those BN members who wear anything regardless of gender could try to use the General Discussion section more for their posts - but the fact remains it isn't designed for them like the male and female forums are. I would love an alternative forum that was described as 'For the discussion of all fragrances, regardless of gender', a bit like the men's and women's forums state 'For the discussion of men's/women's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men/women.'
    BTW, I am not urging for a merger of male and female forums; that would make a huge number of people uncomfortable. I would just like to see a good option for people who think like I do, not having to make do with something that wasn't designed for us (General Fragrance Discussion).

  50. #170

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    No matter how it is organized it can't be perfect, but if anyone thinks it can I'd like to hear the specifics !

  51. #171

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    ...and it will be the next five years: it's called 'growth'...!

  52. #172

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Just my two cents...

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    This Forum is much better now.
    Five years ago there was a strong group of supposedly experienced Basenoters, who took it upon themselves to continually push for men to wear women's scent because the women's scents were superior, and virtually all but a few masculine scents were rubbish - while at the same time arguing the exact opposite proposition that scents had no gender (so how come most of the "mens" scents were rubbish?).

    Time and again, I'd get ultra annoyed - sure wear anything you like, but stop casting yourself as superior because you wear women's scents, and stop continually bashing the masculine scents and inferring that those who liked masculine scents had less refined noses. This did lead to quite a few heated exchanges at the time.

    Yes, there is less emphasis on classic scents here now, but it's also less elitist/snobbish than it was back then for a while. Also, as I've noticed with my nephews, they really don't like a lot of those classic scents very much at all.
    Regards,
    Renato
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I don't remember it being as pronounced as your post implies, but this subject comes up on Fragrantica as well. Also, it's easy to ignore these suggestions if you can't bear the thought of wearing a "woman's" scent, just as I don't read most posts (here or anywhere else for that matter). I don't agree with those who claim that "women's" scents are superior, so I'm not suggesting that sentiment is unreasonable.
    And neither do I. If anything, I recall Renato being more vocal about not comprehending why men wear women's fragrances, both directly and indirectly. Any members, who acted in the way that Renato mentioned, were definitely in the minority.


    Quote Originally Posted by Dernier_Cri View Post
    I found your comments very interesting. I haven't been around here anywhere near five years but I remember being more than a little intimidated when I first encountered posters arguing with an almost religious zealotry that the whole idea of masculine and feminine fragrances is antiquated, contrived and probably oppressive. I saw more than one poster who dared to defend the idea of masculine/feminine fragrances attacked and browbeaten as not being enlightened. Coward that I am I decided this was a fight I had no intention of joining. But I did become enlightened. I saw the kind of stuff that can go on here, "stuff" being a very gentle euphemism for what it is.
    Barring the occasional bully, the Basenotes forum has never been an intimidating place. The example you provided is probably due to the fact that many of the more experienced members are sick to death of others allowing their tastes to be dictated by gender classification (i.e. marketing).

    It's nothing but brainwashing and sometimes you have to be cruel to be kind, especially when the poster is unable to see outside the box. Yes, there are many feminine fragrances I wouldn't wear but that's because they don't suit me - not because they're female fragrances. And the same could be said for many masculine releases.

    It's all about being open-minded and there are many members (both past and present) who aren't. Chances are those 'oppressive' members you mentioned are simply annoyed by such phobias being prevalent in what is supposed to be an open-minded environment.


    Quote Originally Posted by Prince Barry View Post
    I have been on here for 10 years.

    A lot of threads these days seem pointless, 'What scent should I wear?' 'help me choose between these 2 scents' that's 2 common ones always appearing. I wish people would think for themselves. As for the fanboys, as the OP said, they were around then, but didn't ram Creed down your throat all the time.

    We had more 'characters` years ago.
    I agree.


    Quote Originally Posted by Beranium Chotato View Post
    It is against the rules to discuss or challenge any particular moderation decision. In order to keep the conversation constructive and not get any more people banned, it is probably best to stick to the topic of moderation in general (allowed, as far as I understand) than dig up these individual cases. And, in fact, if you feel strongly that you need to discuss a specific decision, it would probably be worthwhile to first make a case against the not-discussing rule (again, as far I understand, this would be allowed) before just proceeding to break the rules.
    Rules maybe rules but we shouldn't forget that it's the members who made Basenotes what it is and not solely the moderators. A forum turning into a 'police state'? Well, I never would have thought...

    Many here are aware of the risks involved in being vocal. So, instead of expecting them to be subservient worshippers, allow them to think for themselves and make their own choices.

    I just hope you weren't awarded a Basenotes brownie point for posting the above comment...


    Quote Originally Posted by drseid View Post
    It can indeed be, but I confess I don't think it has been to a large degree here.

    I certainly can appreciate some of the comments by others that felt intimidated in earlier years by some highly knowledgeable past members that to some came off as elitist, as I felt a bit out of my depth too many years ago when I first joined. That said, I do miss many of those same people who brought such a large knowledge base to the site that I learned so much from that is missing nowadays to a great degree. That is not meant to insult current members, many of whom I have an anormous amount of respect and friendship, but the loss of those key former/inactive individuals can't be denied, and I certainly miss them and the intellectual discussions they took with them elsewhere to a large degree. I think some aspects of the past and present combined would elevate the overall usefulness of the site to all. I welcome all new fragrance lovers and am happy to have them here (well, maybe with a few less Aventus threads) but we also need the "old guard" for proper balance, IMO, and we seem to be missing most of them here nowadays. Too bad, really.
    Agreed. But let us not confuse intimidation with a lack of experience/knowledge amongst more experienced peers (which is usually short-lived if a newbie is prepared to put in the effort).


    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    Such vitriol! So people who prefer not to see fragrance through a masculine/feminine lens or hew to the dictates of marketing when selecting a perfume are idiots who "can't do what a three year-old can do inately" [sic] ??

    You generalize too much. First, some of us don't believe that a person understands 'feminine' or 'masculine' smells innately. Some of us think that smells don't inherently have gender at all, and that gender assigned to fragrances is purely due to association.

    Second, it's not that we are unable to distinguish scents that are traditionally seen as 'masculine' or 'feminine.' It's that we choose not to let those traditional distinctions dictate what we like or wear.

    Third, I don't like insulting anyone, and I'm pretty sure that I've avoided doing that in taking part in the discussions about masculinity and femininity in fragrance. So I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make sweeping insulting generalizations about people who disagree with you.
    Renato's been like this for as long as I can remember, especially with regards to feminine fragrances (and, until now, I've held my tongue for nearly seven years). Anyway, it's a bit rich coming from Renato, who only buys fragrances at heavily discounted prices and whose fragrance tastes/wardrobe is almost exclusively dictated by this factor...


    Quote Originally Posted by pluran View Post
    Basenotes has become a lot more like Walmart, but there are still exceptional reviewers and posters.
    LOL!!!


    Quote Originally Posted by the_good_life View Post
    Well, that's precisely the consumer this industry (like most) wants, a well-earning, well-conditioned consumer-capitalist drone. And that is part of the mad cycle of ever more substancless, cross-plagiarized scents released by Potemkin niche firms who pop up and disappear within the year. No surprise that such a perfume culture spawns commensurately vacuous threads on perfume forums. It's why I am no longer more than peripherally interested in this world of fragrance, as opposed to its past history and the pockets of low key artisan activity going on today.
    Amen to that!


    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny_Ludlow View Post
    Back in 2004 when I joined this was small, cozy and genuinely enthusiastic place to discuss fragrances. Most members were regulars and really into fragrances. Few years from this and basenotes started to get insane number of hits which resulted in endless pointless threads with not so well thought content: people were constantly searching for pantydroppers and what not. There also weren't that many niche houses around. People generally felt that more than $100 for a fragrance is outrageous. MPG, Villoresi, L'Artisan and Malle were the defining niche houses if I recall correctly - and of course Creed. I really miss those days: Basenotes was smaller but quality was much higher - same applies to niche market.

    Some of you say that basenoters is nowadays better because there is no elitism. Well, since mindless relativism has took over, of course there isn't. I happen to think that certain kind of elitism is fine: not all fragrances are created equal. Basically all experienced noses grow out of synthetic designer crap that is sold to us this day. Why? Because they are thin and one-dimensional and lacking of balance and substance. It's nowadays common to think that all opinions are just as valuable and that there is no such thing as "good fragrance" or "bad fragrance". I think this attitude is highly detrimental and quite simply wrong. As if there wouldn't be any sort of inter-subjectivity, as if cultivated noses wouldn't perceive fragrances in more or less similarly. Complete relativism about fragrances is just as dumb stance as its opposite, realism about aesthetical values. There are options in between. This relativism makes no sense: if we think that people smell things differently and everybody just has his opinion and all are just as informed and good, why do we bother to post here in the first place, or why do we read reviews?

    In simpler terms: if somebody tells me that Versace Eros is the best fragrance ever, I quite frankly believe that he needs to smell more fragrances in order to make better judgements about them. This point should never be made condescendingly, so in this sense of the word I of course dislike elitism.
    And as the good life mentioned, this is what the fragrance industry wants. No questioning, no criticism, no reservations - just relativism, diplomacy and blind praise. Maybe we have too many fragrance industry plants in our midsts?

    Btw, you forgot to mention Lutens, in your first paragraph...


    Quote Originally Posted by TLS View Post
    On other forums and social networks BN's are often described as snobs.

    And now a thread like this is started.
    Competition? Dirty tricks? Ever considered those? Remember when Fragrantica plagiarised Basenotes' content (including reviews)... twice? No, I suppose you don't...


    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    One thing that I have disliked (agreeing with Renato here) is when someone would create a post like "Shalimar is the greatest frag of all time" in the Men's Forum. The fact that there are gender forums here suggests that there are conventions involved. If you want to create a post with a title like "Why I consider Shalimar unisex" I don't mind that in the men's forum, though I may not read it. If you want to create a post entitled "Why I am wearing more women's frags these days" and explain why in detail, I don't mind that in the men's forum either (I'm assuming it would be written by a guy). In other words, there has to be some connection to the notion of gender distinctions, even if the post itself is about how you came to find them no longer useful.
    I have to respectfully disagree. With the "Shalimar is the greatest frag of all time" example, it may just be a case of a male member wishing to discuss the subject with other men. It really depends on whose perspective you're after and, with regards to gender classified fragrances, members should have the right to choose between the two forums.

  53. #173

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    Why should you do all the hard work and spend your cash and time on hundreds of samples if other people can do that for you?
    10-12 years ago, when this was just a group on Yahoo!, there weren't that many niche houses and there weren't that many releases each year. A 3.4 bottle of L'Artisan 10 years ago went for perhaps $90. A 4oz bottle of Creed, $180. Between 2000 and 2005, Creed only had three men's releases. L'Artisan had a number more, but nothing like what houses are doing now with releasing entire collections at once. Villoresi was another house that was much discussed back then, but they too had few new offerings. I think that this helped contribute to a climate of exploring more historical houses as one had, literally, time to catch their breath between new releases.
    The Bark Bites Back.

  54. #174

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bark View Post
    10-12 years ago, when this was just a group on Yahoo!, there weren't that many niche houses and there weren't that many releases each year. A 3.4 bottle of L'Artisan 10 years ago went for perhaps $90. A 4oz bottle of Creed, $180. Between 2000 and 2005, Creed only had three men's releases. L'Artisan had a number more, but nothing like what houses are doing now with releasing entire collections at once. Villoresi was another house that was much discussed back then, but they too had few new offerings. I think that this helped contribute to a climate of exploring more historical houses as one had, literally, time to catch their breath between new releases.
    Ditto.

  55. #175
    Lifelong Sniffaholic
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by gimmegreen View Post
    This sounds like a good alternative - except the General fragrance discussion forum's main purpose isn't about engaging all genders: it's 'For the discussion of more general fragrance topics - fragrance industry, fragrance in society, fragrance history and marketing'. That means it is aiming more at general topics not a general audience as such - it's where one would go to announce new releases or talk about reformulations (though a lot of that happens in the gendered forums). Recently I wanted recommendations for a particular combination of notes, but because I wanted suggestions to not be bound by gender, I had to post it on the 'Just starting out' forum. Still, I suppose those BN members who wear anything regardless of gender could try to use the General Discussion section more for their posts - but the fact remains it isn't designed for them like the male and female forums are. I would love an alternative forum that was described as 'For the discussion of all fragrances, regardless of gender', a bit like the men's and women's forums state 'For the discussion of men's/women's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men/women.'
    BTW, I am not urging for a merger of male and female forums; that would make a huge number of people uncomfortable. I would just like to see a good option for people who think like I do, not having to make do with something that wasn't designed for us (General Fragrance Discussion).
    I search for New Posts and respond to any topic that interests me regardless of which forum it is posted in. You don't need to post your topic in Just Starting Out to get female input.


  56. #176
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    One view of Stages in a Relationship:

    Stage 1- Infatuation

    A time of euphoria and intoxication.

    Some often withdraw from a few of their other relationships at least temporarily.



    Stage 2- Power Struggle

    flaws now seem glaringly obvious and downright annoying.

    you want more freedom and fear losing your individuality.


    Stage 3- Reflection and Re-evaluation

    The relative calm after the storm. A resting time. You reflect and reevaluate your situation. Some distance themselves from the relationship.


    Stage 4- Transformation and Commitment


    What you see is what you get.


    Stage 5- Acceptance and Reconciliation

    Resolve conflicts when they arise and spend little energy for competition or resentment.
    Our job is to live joyfully in this world of sorrows--Joseph Campbell

  57. #177

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by kbe View Post
    One view of Stages in a Relationship:

    Stage 1- Infatuation

    A time of euphoria and intoxication.

    Some often withdraw from a few of their other relationships at least temporarily.



    Stage 2- Power Struggle

    flaws now seem glaringly obvious and downright annoying.

    you want more freedom and fear losing your individuality.


    Stage 3- Reflection and Re-evaluation

    The relative calm after the storm. A resting time. You reflect and reevaluate your situation. Some distance themselves from the relationship.


    Stage 4- Transformation and Commitment


    What you see is what you get.


    Stage 5- Acceptance and Reconciliation

    Resolve conflicts when they arise and spend little energy for competition or resentment.
    And with the case of many Basenoters, infidelity...

  58. #178

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by The Bark View Post
    10-12 years ago, when this was just a group on Yahoo!, there weren't that many niche houses and there weren't that many releases each year. A 3.4 bottle of L'Artisan 10 years ago went for perhaps $90. A 4oz bottle of Creed, $180. Between 2000 and 2005, Creed only had three men's releases. L'Artisan had a number more, but nothing like what houses are doing now with releasing entire collections at once. Villoresi was another house that was much discussed back then, but they too had few new offerings. I think that this helped contribute to a climate of exploring more historical houses as one had, literally, time to catch their breath between new releases.
    Double ditto.
    "You can ignore reality, but you can't ignore the consequences of ignoring reality." - Ayn Rand

    "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical...It is a medicine necessary for the sound health of government." - Thomas Jefferson

  59. #179

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post


    Renato's been like this for as long as I can remember, especially with regards to feminine fragrances (and, until now, I've held my tongue for nearly seven years). Anyway, it's a bit rich coming from Renato, who only buys fragrances at heavily discounted prices and whose fragrance tastes/wardrobe is almost exclusively dictated by this factor...
    You are quite correct.
    However, when my comments related as to why people were posting here about women's scents rather than on the women's scent forum, the title of this Forum was,
    "For the discussion of men's fragrances"

    However, once Grant changed the title to
    "For the discussion of men's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men"
    I accepted that the owner of the site can choose what he wants posted where, and did not question that any longer.

    However, I have on numerous occasions asked about the extremely narrow range of women's scents worn by men here, given the often cited claim that scents are genderless. It seemed to me that next to no one here who couldn't detect any difference among scents was wearing Sarah Jessica Parker Lovely, Miss Cherie Dior, Jessica Simpson Fantasy, Eva Longoria or any of the other hundreds of feminine scents which are extremely popular among female purchasers.
    Regards,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Renato's been like this for as long as I can remember, especially with regards to feminine fragrances (and, until now, I've held my tongue for nearly seven years). Anyway, it's a bit rich coming from Renato, who only buys fragrances at heavily discounted prices and whose fragrance tastes/wardrobe is almost exclusively dictated by this factor...
    I think that if you check my wardrobe you'll see a bigger collection of niche scents than most people have regular scents, and I didn't get them all cheap.
    However, it's a sad fact of life that some of the really great scents - like Chanel Egoiste, Blenheim's Bouquet and Equipage - wind up in someone's bargain bin, and when that happens, I'll be there to swoop.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  60. #180

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    You are quite correct.
    However, when my comments related as to why people were posting here about women's scents rather than on the women's scent forum, the title of this Forum was,
    "For the discussion of men's fragrances"

    However, once Grant changed the title to
    "For the discussion of men's fragrances, and fragrances worn by men"
    I accepted that the owner of the site can choose what he wants posted where, and did not question that any longer.

    However, I have on numerous occasions asked about the extremely narrow range of women's scents worn by men here, given the often cited claim that scents are genderless. It seemed to me that next to no one here who couldn't detect any difference among scents was wearing Sarah Jessica Parker Lovely, Miss Cherie Dior, Jessica Simpson Fantasy, Eva Longoria or any of the other hundreds of feminine scents which are extremely popular among female purchasers.
    Regards,
    Renato
    As far as I'm concerned, fragrances are genderless but personal tastes still play a crucial factor - brainwashed/socially conditioned or not. For example, I'm not a big fan of white florals but I also dislike most peppery-cedar scents. But that's just me.

    Btw, I seriously considered purchasing a bottle of Cherie Dior once. As for Sarah Jessica Parker, I'd rather wear her than her fragrances...


    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    I think that if you check my wardrobe you'll see a bigger collection of niche scents than most people have regular scents, and I didn't get them all cheap.
    However, it's a sad fact of life that some of the really great scents - like Chanel Egoiste, Blenheim's Bouquet and Equipage - wind up in someone's bargain bin, and when that happens, I'll be there to swoop.
    Cheers,
    Renato
    Well, I only have your previous posts to go on and the conclusion wasn't reached lightly. I'm sure there are plenty of your posts in the forum archive, in which others can reach their own conclusions...

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