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  1. #181

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post



    Another thing that I noticed: There were creed fanatics then, as there are now, but I don´t remember finding such a cult following for a fragrance as we now find for Aventus. Aventus is a god-like fragrance here.
    I joined in 2007 and have also noticed those changes you've mentioned. As with Creed, Adventus hadn't came out or was just beginning to. Most BN'ers talked about Bois du Portugal & Green Irish Tweed . However, the slow connection and downtime remains the same
    Last edited by silverbullet; 24th March 2013 at 06:34 PM.

  2. #182

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    Well, I only have your previous posts to go on and the conclusion wasn't reached lightly. I'm sure there are plenty of your posts in the forum archive, in which others can reach their own conclusions...
    Yes, my posts are a litany of bargains galore.I consider myself extremely fortunate.

    My wife is actually more fortunate - one day I came home with 10 bottles of different Annick Goutal scents for her, which I'd paid between $10 and $20 each for.
    Regards,
    Renato

  3. #183

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Yes, my posts are a litany of bargains galore.I consider myself extremely fortunate.

    My wife is actually more fortunate - one day I came home with 10 bottles of different Annick Goutal scents for her, which I'd paid between $10 and $20 each for.
    Regards,
    Renato
    LOL! There you go! I must add that you're very lucky to have found such bargains but you have to put the shoe on the other foot, as it were. Nothing wrong with that - just an observation.

  4. #184

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    @silverbullet - it's been pretty good this week, no problems - or is that tempting fate

  5. #185

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Trebor View Post
    LOL! There you go! I must add that you're very lucky to have found such bargains but you have to put the shoe on the other foot, as it were. Nothing wrong with that - just an observation.
    Well, when someone asks for advice here on where to start, I can't see much point in the often nominated scents that can cost quite a bit in retail stores. Getting three or four or five heavily discounted designer scents (many of which had usually been praised here at launch) seems a better way to go. Instant wardrobe, for starters.

    I didn't see much discounting when I was in London years ago, except at the Harrod's sale, where I picked up Helmut Lang Curion and Kouros Sport Cologne going quite cheaply.
    Regards,
    Renato

  6. #186

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Agree with the OP's sentiments.

    I don't buy into the site's down-time as a real issue - it hasn't kept the punters away. More broadly there have been delivery failures - the magazine, the Basenotes scent project, - by which some people felt cheated.

    I don't agree with Renato's views about womens' scents (or the position taken by others). (And I'd love to know where you found those cheap A-Gs).

    I think Dimitri left long before he was banned (if indeed he was). And he still irregularly posts on his own blog.
    http://sorceryofscent.blogspot.com.a...cci-museo.html

    I was never comfortable with the notion of perfume as a 'hobby'.

    I still have a large number of bottles, I still try new perfumes as they appear in the department stores, I keep an eye on what my 'preferred' houses are doing. And these forums can't satisfy that interest.

    The Basenotes forum now generally has less-experienced noses, dismissive about scents first released more than 2 years ago (and I reject the proposition that the classic scents been reformulated beyond recognition), and no capacity to use the search function.

    I still log in occassionally - hoping for an interesting article, mainly looking at the Australian sub-forum for any local news, but that's it. And it's a shame.

  7. #187

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Yes I have been thinking of leaving. I am one of few original Basenotes members still around its not the same and I miss many of my old friends.

  8. #188

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post
    I don't agree with Renato's views about womens' scents (or the position taken by others). (And I'd love to know where you found those cheap A-Gs).
    My view remains that of wear whatever you want - it doesn't bother me one way or the other - unless someone then tells me I'm unenlightened or brainwashed for wearing what I want.

    I got the cheap Annick Goutals at the closing down sale of a niche shop in Melbourne, which I posted about at the time.
    Cheers,
    Renato

  9. #189

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I was a newbie to this site 6 years ago i think. I loved the insight of members like Hirch, GoodLife, Redneck, ZZ, Ruggles, tvlampboy, Petrucci, Pluran, and Beck. And yes, this site helped me learn everything I know about perfumery except my own personal taste. the greatness of the userbase has been a total blessing to me.

    I haven't experienced any unwarranted moderator bullying, and I hope such never happens.

    Bbut I cosign the sentiments of an age shift, and the younger members posting any question, no matter how inane or overcovered already, effectively drowning the forum in repetitive, unnecessary drivel that distracts from high-brow convo I became accustomed to, after I learned to tone down my own posting and search VERY THOROUGHLY before posting a new thread.

    It's something like young puppies p!ssing everywhere, with little regard for the condition of their surroundings. Or leaving all one's garbage on the breakroom counter after lunch....just a general loud, ignorant rude, selfish, and slovenly display of behavior.

    But it's not that big a deal. I just have to skim over a higher percentage of threads and posts before getting to the good stuff that is still here. hednic, SculptureofSoul, and a few others are still as much help as ever.

    I have slowed down on posting, because I feel like I've finally collected every single "must have" fragrance, for my taste, from the western and arabian world that was released before 2012. i feel like all I need to do now is keep up with new releases, which occupies less time.

    The explanation for many of the veteran posters posting less is probably a combination of things, probably many have families, and very busy personal lives that leave very little time for things like message baords.

    All that said, I still immensely enjoy basenotes than any other forum for fragrance I've found.

  10. #190

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post

    The Basenotes forum now generally has less-experienced noses
    I keep reading statements like this and I just don't get it. What makes a less experienced nose? Is a less experienced nose one that has only smelled a few different fragrances, and if so, how do you know how many fragrances someone else has smelled. Furthermore, if this is the case, then how many fragrances does one have to sniff before becoming experienced, is it 137 or 334?
    Is a less experienced nose one that displays an inability to use eloquent, illustrious prose(big grammarz, oyinbo kpo) as they wax poetically in expressing their opinion about a fragrance. Or, is it having an opinion about a fragrance that differs from the opinion of the more "experienced" cognoscenti, who obviously dictate how one should relate to a fragrance.
    Is a less experienced nose one that has the inability to dissect a fragrance and identify each individual note in the composition? If so, there's an easy fix, check the net, the note pyramid is likely listed somewhere. I would venture to say that I could find a good writer and briefly describe any fragrance note that they were not familiar with, and they could write an amazing review without ever having smelled the fragrance, and you wouldn't know whether they were "experienced" or not. I ask these questions because I would really like to know, I mean, is there like some über-covert credentialing chamber where I can find out if I'm official, I mean like a real life experienced fragrance aficionado.
    Also this idea that one is uncouth, stuck in time, barbaric, vulgar even; brainwashed by some supernatural market force for thinking of fragrances as masculine or feminine, when they're just expressing how they exist with a fragrance, I don't agree, however I do maintain that those who think that way have a right to their opinion.
    I find the forum to generally be inviting, I've had several members hip me to some fragrances that I didn't know about, send them to me on their dime and vice-versa, even met some real cool local cats.

  11. #191

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Also this idea that one is uncouth, stuck in time, barbaric, vulgar even; brainwashed by some supernatural market force for thinking of fragrances as masculine or feminine, when they're just expressing how they exist with a fragrance, I don't agree, however I do maintain that those who think that way have a right to their opinion.
    You don't have to agree but it's more or less a part of history. What is 'masculine' and 'feminine' is constantly being redefined. Here's a simple enough example:

    http://www.straightdope.com/columns/...blue-for-girls

    Another example would be make up. Men don't really wear it today, but they definitely did in the past (and plenty still do if they're on TV). You're only 'brainwashed' if you dismiss all fragrances marketed toward women as something men can not and should not wear (and vice versa).

  12. #192

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I think the forum isn't what it used to be because the fragrance industry/marketplace isn't what it used to be. A lot of houses that used to put out great juice (Hermes, Chanel, YSL, etc.) now put out crap that's been so watered-down and turned to vapor, it's hardly anything I'd ever be interested in. Worst still, houses that used to have great frags have had to reformulate them down to the essence of water. Blame the IFRA, frag houses' business models or the public's disinterest in complex and different frags, I don't know. But it's a reality that I, for one, can't get excited about like I used to 4 or 5 years ago. These days, my prerogative is focusing on those "classic" frags that I love and learning, to my horror, which one has been reformulated.

    So, in the end, there's not much to talk about. Maybe Pluran can take over this site and post all those lovely girly pix ad infinitum
    "I exist for myself, and for those to whom my unquenchable thirst for freedom gives everything, but also for everyone, since insofar as I am able to love - I love everyone. Of noble hearts, I am the noblest - and the most generous of those that yearn to give love in return. - I am a human being, I love death and I love life."

    Egon Schiele - Self-Potrait


    My classics: Dior Homme EdT, YSL Rive Gauche PH, Helmut Lang Cuiron, L'Occitane Neroli (vintage), Davidoff Zino, L'Occitane Eau des Baux

    http://www.basenotes.net/wardrobe/2976

  13. #193

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years


  14. #194

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    I keep reading statements like this and I just don't get it. What makes a less experienced nose? Is a less experienced nose one that has only smelled a few different fragrances, and if so, how do you know how many fragrances someone else has smelled. Furthermore, if this is the case, then how many fragrances does one have to sniff before becoming experienced, is it 137 or 334?
    Is a less experienced nose one that displays an inability to use eloquent, illustrious prose(big grammarz, oyinbo kpo) as they wax poetically in expressing their opinion about a fragrance. Or, is it having an opinion about a fragrance that differs from the opinion of the more "experienced" cognoscenti, who obviously dictate how one should relate to a fragrance.
    Is a less experienced nose one that has the inability to dissect a fragrance and identify each individual note in the composition? If so, there's an easy fix, check the net, the note pyramid is likely listed somewhere. I would venture to say that I could find a good writer and briefly describe any fragrance note that they were not familiar with, and they could write an amazing review without ever having smelled the fragrance, and you wouldn't know whether they were "experienced" or not. I ask these questions because I would really like to know, I mean, is there like some über-covert credentialing chamber where I can find out if I'm official, I mean like a real life experienced fragrance aficionado.
    Also this idea that one is uncouth, stuck in time, barbaric, vulgar even; brainwashed by some supernatural market force for thinking of fragrances as masculine or feminine, when they're just expressing how they exist with a fragrance, I don't agree, however I do maintain that those who think that way have a right to their opinion.
    I find the forum to generally be inviting, I've had several members hip me to some fragrances that I didn't know about, send them to me on their dime and vice-versa, even met some real cool local cats.
    My basic rule of thumb is that if you can't explain something to others in detail then you still have a lot to learn. And by suggesting the note pyramids are all that is needed for knowing what notes are in a scent you demonstrate that you have much to learn ("young Skywalker"? LOL). Also, the naturalness of a scent is something that took me a long time to appreciate (more than a year), but that's not important unless you begin to get sickened by the "synthetic/chemical" qualities of many recent releases. If you stock up a bunch of newer ones and then this happens to you, there may be a substantial monetary loss, so that is why I suggest gathering up samples of around 1.5 ml or more and then get at least 5 wearings out of that over the course of half a year or more. The other major issue is olfactory fatigue, which also took me several months to figure out how to deal with. No doubt, I would rather read posts by people who know these things but "newbies" have something to offer as well; the major issue with them may simply be not searching before posting (and I'm sure I've done than more than once). In any case, one can read a person's posts and decide for themselves if that person is an "experienced nose." For example, I would never claim to be that in the case of top notes, which I try to largely avoid.

  15. #195

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    The decline of quality male fragrances available reflects the decline of quality of posts here on basenotes. A few years ago, there were vast varieties of designer fragrances out there -- well-made ones, in terms of ingredients and composition, untouched with its greatness preserved; and you didn't have to spend hundreds of dollars to own them.

  16. #196

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    This is the way I see it...it all comes down to oversaturation of the market. If you go back decades colognes/perfumes/scents were semi-limited when it came to the market. You had fewer choices and people had a tendency to stick with classics. Even when I joined around 5 years ago there seemed to be more talk of niche vs. designer but the designers being talked about were still tried and true and the newer ones were allowed to be in the market and analyzed a little longer. Now it seems like there is a new flanker and scent out monthly. They come and go, head to TJ Maxx or disappear and then another one takes its place. Many designers have tried to appeal to a younger audience...Big Pony, etc..and thus you have many more enthusiasts that want to learn more but are into the "what will turn heads." To me that's the biggest difference. It's hard to analyze something over time when it isn't given the time to be out there and looked at. Now its flavor of the month and a little harder to keep up. JMO.
    "As you walk down the fairway of life you must smell the roses, for you only get to play one round."
    --Ben Hogan

  17. #197

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I'm one of the less experienced and less technical people, but I come to somewhere like here as part of my learning, to discuss things in a non-judgemental way with people who I know are a whole lot more experienced and knowledgeable than me.

    What I am really experienced in is running forums on the internet, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the 'this isn't like it was in the good old days' threads have been running ever since the good old days, and they run on absolutely every site out there.

    On really busy sites they bemoan the loss of the little site where everybody knows everybody else, on more niche sites they bemoan the specialism because they used to have a lot more broad appeal.

    Things change, people develop and move on- the world does not stay the same and that's normal and fine to be that way.

  18. #198

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Rudi View Post
    I don't buy into the site's down-time as a real issue - it hasn't kept the punters away. More broadly there have been delivery failures - the magazine, the Basenotes scent project, - by which some people felt cheated.
    Personally, the magazine was an illogical step backwards. Hard copy magazines and journals eventually launch websites and not the other way round. I never liked the idea.

    As for the Basenotes scent project, I have no idea what happened there, but it seemed ludicrous that two of the three proposed fragrances were leather scents. IMHO, the scent family of each of the three fragrances should have been different from each other, thus offering a broader spectrum of choice. I kept my mouth shut, as I very much doubt many would have listened with all the buzz that was being generated (as well as possibly being branded a party pooper).

  19. #199

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by sfmedusa View Post
    I'm one of the less experienced and less technical people, but I come to somewhere like here as part of my learning, to discuss things in a non-judgemental way with people who I know are a whole lot more experienced and knowledgeable than me.

    What I am really experienced in is running forums on the internet, and I can tell you with absolute certainty that the 'this isn't like it was in the good old days' threads have been running ever since the good old days, and they run on absolutely every site out there.

    On really busy sites they bemoan the loss of the little site where everybody knows everybody else, on more niche sites they bemoan the specialism because they used to have a lot more broad appeal.

    Things change, people develop and move on- the world does not stay the same and that's normal and fine to be that way.
    Yessir. My favorite example is with sports. Many people bemoan the current era of basketball, saying the 90s were superior (Jordan era). But if you search old posts/early internet forums, people in the 90s were complaining about the lack of quality of play compared to the 80s. Even better though is that in the very early days of the internet (when it was limited to universities) in the 80s, there are still posts discussing sports, including ones talking about how 80s basketball was nothing compared to the superior 70s brand of basketball (as I recall there were some humorous posts in regards to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar specifically). Its just a fact with nostalgia.

    A lot of the "outcry" is tied to nostalgia in another way. Tastes change in society but a lot of early/prominent basenoters seem to be "retrosexual" in a way that "classics" are inherently better and that they are chasing the mystical fragrances of the past. The current ingredient restrictions are a real thing but a lot of the outcry seems to be that many of the older style fragrances are falling out of style. If say, you replaced Aventus threads with Mitsuoko, I suspect there would be a lot less animosity. On top of that, the internet has brought in a lot of "the enthusiest/collector" crowd who likes to debate on more technical issues where as I get the feeling that before that the fragrance community was more an artistic drawn to the artistry of scent more than its basic commercial application.

    TLDR: Its less a decline in quality and more a change in style/preference in what fragrances are discussed and how they are discussed.

  20. #200

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I think the site could easily amend some of the issues mentioned by creating more and better sub-forums, such as:

    - Preference polls and fragrance advice
    - Designer fragrances
    - Niche fragrances
    - Vintage and classics
    - New releases
    - Etc.

    That would be helpful to ensure that people with similar interests gather in smaller groups instead of having to sift through large amount of threads.

  21. #201

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by PEARL View Post
    I keep reading statements like this and I just don't get it. What makes a less experienced nose? Is a less experienced nose one that has only smelled a few different fragrances, and if so, how do you know how many fragrances someone else has smelled. Furthermore, if this is the case, then how many fragrances does one have to sniff before becoming experienced, is it 137 or 334?
    You do raise some very valid points with which I don't disagree.

    On the other hand we briefly had famous perfume gurus Luca Turin and Michael Edwards as a members, yet some people just wanted to start abrasive arguments with them, rather than polite discussion. Also, we had one chap called Scentemental ( or slight variation of that name) who had numerous high quality posts which were effectively essays (often amazing depth-wise)that were worth reading from start to finish.
    Regards,
    Renato

  22. #202
    Super Member
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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    I would be considered a newbie, as I have only been on Basenotes for less than two years. But that is because I did not get into fragrance in a serious way until then. I wore Obsession into 2007 and a few scents from Crabtree & Evelyn after that. Then I discovered I had a lot to learn and experience.

    But I am not a newbie on the Internet. I was involved in dial up computer bulletin boards from 1986, years before there was a World Wide Web (www) we think of today. I started on the Internet in the early 1990s. As others have said, people come and go and others have complained about forum social collapse and the loss of community since AOL opened up the Internet to the masses.

    In reality, people and interests change over the years. What was must-see five years ago is now a memory. It is easy to be nostalgic, and forum communities in general have been challenged by blogs and Facebook. If you wonder where people went, you will probably find many of them in those two places, where they can be the masters of their own domain.

    Just remember there are new folks like myself that have a lot to learn, and the experienced members here are among the best teachers.

    Life, especially on the Internet, is subject to change without notice.

  23. #203

    Default

    As a veteran with not a great deal of time to post/read these days my opinion is that it is still very cool here. Some excellent oldies are still around and there seems to mostly be a decent level of conversation. It seems the level of knowledge of people coming in is quite high - frags as a hobby are more popular by far.
    On a personal level it can be quite frustrating when I DO know the answer to something after a decade or so of hard (expensive!) research and my post gets lost in a sea of people who don't know me and ignore my post. But that is not really anybody's fault ...

  24. #204

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    On a personal level it can be quite frustrating when I DO know the answer to something after a decade or so of hard (expensive!) research and my post gets lost in a sea of people who don't know me and ignore my post. But that is not really anybody's fault ...
    One can always choose not to read answers from younger basenoters, or basenoters who did not reach a certain threshold of posts. You would be put back on evidence in such case.

    I'm not saying I discriminate posts like that. I am just saying that it is possible.

  25. #205

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    “Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers.”

    ― Socrates

    Gee, guess this has been going on for a long time. So are youngsters actually becoming worse and worse, or is the whining of oldsters just louder and louder? Maybe there's some middle ground in there. In the meantime, I remain terrified of turning into a cranky old codger who shakes his finger and says, "Things were much better back in my day, sonny boy."

  26. #206

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Personally, I believe that those who yearn for the past miss the "exclusivity" of Basenotes, meaning that they were one of the few who were truly interested in fragrances as a hobby and not as a casual person who just wore designers. Not many people were interested in fragrances as a hobby and the community was small and tight-knit.

    Fast forward to the present and you have seen the fragrance hobby expand exponentially in various social media. Facebook, Twitter, YouTube, and of course forums. It literally doesn't take much effort nowadays to find a bevy of information on various fragrances from around the world, as well as reviews from people that can be complete novices to career professionals.

    As hobbies grow, it is quite common to see older members fade away for numerous reasons. However, as hobbies grow, you'll also eventually encounter sub-factions emerging. Take what has happened here for example. Basenotes has fans of niche houses, ultra rares, vintages, male/female classifications, designers, and so on and so forth. I think its great for hobbies to continually grow and evolve. Just think how boring the hobby would be if no one dared to innovate or create.

    You can see this behavior in almost every hobby. Music, books, video games, board games, hell even the watch forum I belong to (Watchuseek) has experienced this.
    Summer 2013 Top 10 :

    1. Creed Aventus
    2. Dior Homme Sport (2012)
    3. L'Eau Bleue D'Issey
    4. Bleu de Chanel
    5. Acqua dio Gio Essenza
    6. Strange Invisible Perfumes - Peloponnesian
    7. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
    8. Diesel Green Masculine
    9. Terre d'Hermes
    10. Guerlain Homme

  27. #207

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by manicboy View Post
    I think the forum isn't what it used to be because the fragrance industry/marketplace isn't what it used to be. A lot of houses that used to put out great juice (Hermes, Chanel, YSL, etc.) now put out crap that's been so watered-down and turned to vapor, it's hardly anything I'd ever be interested in. Worst still, houses that used to have great frags have had to reformulate them down to the essence of water. Blame the IFRA, frag houses' business models or the public's disinterest in complex and different frags, I don't know. But it's a reality that I, for one, can't get excited about like I used to 4 or 5 years ago. These days, my prerogative is focusing on those "classic" frags that I love and learning, to my horror, which one has been reformulated.

    So, in the end, there's not much to talk about. Maybe Pluran can take over this site and post all those lovely girly pix ad infinitum
    I agree totally! Designer fragrances in particular have deteriorated a lot in the past few years, the stinging IFRA regulations have led to the demise of catalogs of fragrances coupled with the publics' interest in either johnny aquatic or saccharine fragrances.

  28. #208

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread. It is the most interesting thread I have read on this forum recently. I suppose that is either sad, or hopeful, depending on how I choose to look at it.

  29. #209

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Shiny Beast View Post
    Mr. Show with Bob and David: Greatest sketch comedy show of all time, hands down. And a very relevant skit.

    We tend to romanticize the past. It would surprise me if there wasn't a group of people that thought that the heydey of basenotes was several years ago. Unfortunately, it does seem that other forums have surpassed basenotes in terms of traffic and popularity. I can live with that, and still come here.

    The only thing I find disconcerting is the creeping undercurrent of snarkiness and arrogance in many new (and even some long time) posters -- not enough to get a thread closed or a poster banned, but enough to make me want to not respond that that particular person's posts because I don't want to get a response that is vaguely insulting or annoying. I cannot count the number of times I've responded to a person's post and then later edited my answer or comment because I thought it came off as insulting. Some people don't seem to think that politeness is necessary. Well, unnecessary it may be . . . but it is appreciated.
    Current Top Five:

    1. Creed Green Irish Tweed
    2. Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
    3. Hermes Concentre d'Orange Verte
    4. Bond No. 9 New Haarlem
    5. Creed Original Vetiver

  30. #210

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by hirch_duckfinder View Post
    On a personal level it can be quite frustrating when I DO know the answer to something after a decade or so of hard (expensive!) research and my post gets lost in a sea of people who don't know me and ignore my post.
    I can speak only for myself, but I've read many of your reviews and I emphatically cannot afford to ignore your posts. I find not one modicum of arrogance in your awareness of your own expertise. Please continue to enrich us with your knowledge.

  31. #211

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    ... we had one chap called Scentemental ( or slight variation of that name) who had numerous high quality posts which were effectively essays (often amazing depth-wise)that were worth reading from start to finish.
    Regards,
    Renato
    Well said.
    I still recall Scentemental's excellent post about the "false gods" in reference to niche fragrances.
    A truly excellent post that should be read by all Basenoters.

  32. #212

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Your premise is either incorrect or confused. I referred specifically to people who have asserted that they could not see the difference between male and female scents (which includes a number of reviewers who have written books) - which appears to include you by your first paragraph. I have to take them at their word that they cannot do so, and assume it's a bit like my being partly colour blind.

    But by your second paragraph you appear to be saying that you can tell the difference between masculine and feminine scents, but that you chose not to be bound by that. So I'm not sure what you are upset about, as I plainly wrote that I have no issue with people wearing what they want, my only issue being with airs of superiority or putting others down for not doing as they do.

    I don't go around saying I'm superior because I don't see as many colours as others do, even though I can see some colours that regular visioned people can't see.
    Regards,
    Renato
    I feel a need to chime in here. I have a degree in Psychology and my studies touched upon senses and perception, as well as social constructionism. While I am confident that, in the majority cases, I could tell the difference between fragrances marketed at men and women, I do not personally believe that it is relevant to compare perceptions of scent gendering to colour vision.

    It is my understanding that there is no inherent gendering in scent above that which has been socially constructed through the age-old association of 'sugary sweet things' with femininity and musky, woody, sweaty accords with males. These are traditional, socially purported ideals.

    Conversely, the inability to perceive certain colours is genetic and may reflect defects in or the absence of light sensitive cells on the retina. There is no subjectivity in colour perception; you either can or can't see colour to a greater or lesser degree. The only parallels one might realistically draw to the perception of scent are those based on the idea that certain colours are associated with certain emotions, such as red with anger and yellow with happiness. Mere perception of both colour and scent takes place at an unconscious level; the interpretation thereof is far more subjective and culturally dictated.

    I apologise if I've rambled a bit too far off topic there.
    Smelling good on a budget!

  33. #213

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by voodoodanny View Post
    I feel a need to chime in here. I have a degree in Psychology and my studies touched upon senses and perception, as well as social constructionism. While I am confident that, in the majority cases, I could tell the difference between fragrances marketed at men and women, I do not personally believe that it is relevant to compare perceptions of scent gendering to colour vision.

    It is my understanding that there is no inherent gendering in scent above that which has been socially constructed through the age-old association of 'sugary sweet things' with femininity and musky, woody, sweaty accords with males. These are traditional, socially purported ideals.

    Conversely, the inability to perceive certain colours is genetic and may reflect defects in or the absence of light sensitive cells on the retina. There is no subjectivity in colour perception; you either can or can't see colour to a greater or lesser degree. The only parallels one might realistically draw to the perception of scent are those based on the idea that certain colours are associated with certain emotions, such as red with anger and yellow with happiness. Mere perception of both colour and scent takes place at an unconscious level; the interpretation thereof is far more subjective and culturally dictated.

    I apologise if I've rambled a bit too far off topic there.
    Socially constructed - sounds good, but some evidence to back up the claim would be appreciated. It mattered little to me how people tell me to interpret colours, my green tent looks grey to me.

    In my childhood, I grew up in Australia, and spent some time in Italy. All I know is that in both places, hand a kid a pocket knife, axe or other cutting implement, and he will attack branches, logs, sticks and climb trees. And when girls see daisies, expect lots of interminable daisy chains and lots of mucking around with flowers. Hand girls knives and hand boys daisies, and the results won't be as enthusiastic. Socially constructed or innate?

    Anyhow, that is irrelevant. I was comparing two minorities, one that can't perceive masculine and feminine scents, and one that can't perceive the full colour range. Some six years ago, one of those minorites was continually proclaiming itself here as enlightened, more advanced in perfumery, and superior, while simultaneously inferring the majority of male scent users were unenlightened , brainwashed and inferior. To my knowledge, the partially colour blind minority have never come out anywhere and proclaimed themselves superior, although in some situations their vision is superior to that of the majority, such as in the detection of camouflage, and the perception of colours of small size against a dark background (at the turn of the second last century, countless books were written by astronomers describing Mars, but the only accurate account was that by Schiaparelli, who was partially colour blind).

    As I said earlier, the place is better now as a lot of the enlightened ones have either left or learned tolerance. Now we can have light hearted and fun discussions about whether scents are genderless or not, and at the end of the day, the result doesn't really matter, as people wear whatever they want without belittling the tastes of the other.
    Regards,
    Renato

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by musky_monkey View Post
    Well said.
    I still recall Scentemental's excellent post about the "false gods" in reference to niche fragrances.
    A truly excellent post that should be read by all Basenoters.
    My recollection is that Scentemental didn't distinguish between masculine and feminine scents either. But darn did he have some insights into scents (especially the masculine ones).
    Cheers,
    Renato

  34. #214

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by EndlesslySurprised View Post
    This has to do quite a bit with the "juvenilization" and "over-democratisation" of the Internet.
    I'm relatively new to Basenotes but have been on the internet since 91 and I can tell you a lot of great fora have succumbed to this; these days I call it the "redditization" of the internet to better communicate the concept to the folks responsible for it.

    Young people today grew up with the internet and with Wikipedia and think a 10 second article skim is a substitute for knowledge and experience. Furthermore due to modern trends in parenting and education they've been taught from an early age how individual and precious and creative and expressive they are, and so have zero self-awareness when it comes to evaluating and censoring their own thoughts and opinions online, even when sharing/debating them with obvious experts in a particular field.

    Unfortunately high school/college kids have far more time on their hands than people with careers, families etc., so they will always be able to drown out any signal with their noise. It's an old problem, but one that's accelerating.

    Private communities and/or heavy moderation are the only answers I've ever seen that work. I for one would welcome an "experts only" forum on Basenotes which would be open to a very small subset of well-known expert Basenoters, where the rest of us would be welcome to follow the conversation but not contribute; at least not until we've proven our stripes in the regular fora.

  35. #215

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by musky_monkey View Post
    ...I still recall Scentemental's excellent post about the "false gods" in reference to niche fragrances. A truly excellent post that should be read by all Basenoters.
    Agreed. I believe this is the one you refer to...
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/187...ery-long-post)

    I'm left wondering whether he (or any other member with alot to offer) would have given as much effort if he'd of known how quickly it would get buried and how relatively difficult it would be for the new or average member to now find. Along these lines, I wish BN was more of an encyclopedic/wiki set-up, with quality opinions and support saved and built upon for future members' sake. Moderator-like members could make up that group that decides which content is sticky worthy... or, even some member vote type mechanism where it's weighted accordingly to a combination of variables like membership initiation date, paying membership, industry experience, post count, review count, sales/purchases activity, splits hosters, etc.

    The current search function only goes so far.
    Simplex Sigillum Veri

  36. #216

    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    Quote Originally Posted by Renato View Post
    Socially constructed - sounds good, but some evidence to back up the claim would be appreciated. It mattered little to me how people tell me to interpret colours, my green tent looks grey to me.
    Respectfully, if one scours the web, there are countless journal entries and academic articles on how gender roles and perceptions are primarily socially constructed. The idea that some colours/scents/activities are genetically inherent to a particular sex is blown apart by reference to a shift in cultural perceptions that has taken place in just the last century alone:

    In 1918, an article in Ladies Home Journal advised: “The generally accepted rule is pink for the boys, and blue for the girls. The reason is that pink, being a more decided and stronger color, is more suitable for the boy, while blue, which is more delicate and dainty, is prettier for the girl.”

    I could launch into a campaign of research and citation in an attempt to defend the claim that scent is inherently ungendered, although I would like to suggest that the onus is on you to provide evidence that this is not the case, especially in light of the fact that scent gendering is perceived differently across different cultures. A short article I found to support that notion is found here: http://www.charentonmacerations.com/...ce-and-gender/

    I will concede that there appears to be evidence that males and females perceive scent differently. They have their critics but Brand and Millot (2001) for example, found that women are more sensitive to certain fragrant compounds than men and that, overall, they have a more sensitive olfactory sense, but even then, there is no suggestion that specific scents are more suitable for, or more universally preferred by a specific gender.

    But yes, this runs the risk of turning into academic debate for academic debate's sake - I agree with your sentiments with relation to the forum; I even agree that the vast majority of seasoned sniffers will have no issue identifying 'male' and 'female' fragrances, but there is still a lot of grey area in that respect (I used to think Dior Homme was the most masculine scent I owned!) so I would like to believe that I won't be judged negatively by my peers when I, a stocky, six-foot, tattooed, bearded, heterosexual male, step out in a liberal wearing of Feminite du Bois.

    Which, I have just decided, is what I am going to do today.

    Stay fragrant.
    Smelling good on a budget!

  37. #217
    Basenotes Plus

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    Default Re: The Forum Has Changed in the last 5 years

    This thread now has has very little to do with Male Fragrance and is much more about site issues in general. The Community Center is more appropriate for such discussions. Those who think the mods have personal issues with members are quite wrong. Many knowledgeable and generally well-liked members have done and said many very nasty things to others that quite often seem to go unnoticed by the membership. The reasons for banning someone are creating uncomfortable situations for others such as vulgar images, racial, religious or gender offensive statements, etc. OR continued failure to follow the site rules OR multiple scam complaints. Although mod bashing is itself a site violation it is better to just close the thread at this point.

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