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  1. #1

    Default Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Hello,

    i am totally new to forum and new to parfume making. I am trying to mix my 1st mix but it want mix at all. I am using ethanol 96% and i dilute it with water (50%). If i add to EO mixtire it will not mix. I also have isopropyl alcohol with that is mixing really good, but smell it to strong. So if i make colone or toalete it will seperate oils from alcohol and water. How do you mix guys ?


    I will post pic wich alco i use/have:

    DSC07622.JPGDSC07623.JPG

    Any advice ?

    PS: i posted in newbie section on this forum and they redirect me to here, sorry for reposting

  2. #2

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Don't dilute your ethanol with water and you shouldn't have any problems. Good luck.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Hi!
    There's a 'Primer on How to make Perfume' (Version 1.0) near the top of this section which is a good read too

  4. #4

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    But even if recipie require so ? Cose i want to mix my 1st mix and i want lavender parfume (still searching for recipie).

    Regards

  5. #5

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Chances are any formula won't require water. Because water and oil don't mix. Simply use the ethanol you already have.

    The isoprop will probably come in useful for removing the last traces of oil when you clean bottles, or something.

    -

    - - - Updated - - -

    Fougere lavender formula from the internet. (Google is your friend)

    http://carmelperfume.blogspot.co.uk/...as-part-1.html

    Orange cold pressed oil 30
    Bergamot essential oil 75
    Labdanum resinoid 70
    Lavender essential oil 70
    Oakmoss absolute 50
    Vanillin natural isolate or Vanilla absolute 30


    For those with access to aromachems, here is a formula for making a version of Fougere Royale:

    Bergamot 120
    Linalool 30
    Lavender 70
    Phenylacetaldehyde 10% 20
    Methyl Salicylate 25
    Phenylethyl Alcohol 60
    Geranium 80
    Ylang ylang 10
    Anisic aldehyde 5
    Oakmoss 50
    Benzoin 50% 20
    Labdanum resinoid 10
    Patchouli 10
    Vetiver 5
    Amyl Salicylate 20
    Coumarin 100
    Heliotropine 30
    Hydroxycitronellal 20
    Musk* 60
    Vanillin 5
    Jasmine base** 100
    *Musks used at the time were nitro musks. The modern perfumer can substitute with Ethylene Brassylate or any of the newer musks.
    **Suggest Sampaquita, Hedione, or any of the newer jasmine bases.


    So mix that lot up, dilute with ethanol to 20% or whatever, and bob's your uncle and fanny's a rude word.

    -
    Last edited by Skelly; 23rd March 2013 at 06:48 PM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Hehe Skely, thank you for this wonderfull post I will try to find some aromas, but those are EO or fragrance u sugessting?

  7. #7

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Oil and water do not mix. Do not use water in any fragrance formulation. How many times must this be written ?
    Fougere Royale? I don't think so.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    But why than say ethanol (wich is 96%) or vodka wich is 40%? i mean, i need to dilute 96% to 40% than?

    Like Skelly post : "dilute with ethanol to 20%" , that mean i need to dilute 96% ethanol with oils to 20% ?

  9. #9

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rencelj View Post
    But even if recipie require so ? Cose i want to mix my 1st mix and i want lavender parfume (still searching for recipie).
    any recipe that tells you to mix alcohol and water 50/50 or something similar is bogus and should be redirected to the waste bin and never thought of again.

    skip the isopropyl alcohol, too. forget about vodka!

    just use ethanol 96%. that's really all you need and just about perfect. it is that simple.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Thank you, so even if i wana make lavender eau de toilette than i dont mix in it water? I have my own EO (from my plantages). Was thinking to make eau de toilette from it. But since i am new i need to find recipie for it.

    Atm i own those EO :
    bergamot
    petitgrain
    orange
    lemon
    lavender
    neroli

    perfumery in our country is not developed, we all import (perfumes,toilette...) So will be hard to get any special blends/fragrance, so will need to buy in France or Uk probably.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    no water. water doesn't mix with oil.

    the recipe is simple: lavender eo, ethanol 96%. a 1:9 ratio (10%) is a good starting point, maybe a bit less, say down to 5%. i would prefer it to be gentle and not too loud, but you can do whatever you like.

    then you could look at fixatives to stretch the lavender a bit. a small touch of coumarin has this effect, without turning the lavender into something else. if this is your concern, i suggest you start a thread about it.

    it also seems like you have all the right notes to start an eau de cologne. it will be short lived as well. to make it last longer, you will need fitting materials that last longer, if possible some with fixative power.

    currently you can make two simple but rather nice and classic, short lived eau's.

    you have no heart and basenotes. not really a problem for a short lived refreshing cologne, and that kind of thing can be very nice indeed. to create a typical eau de toilette you will need to obtain longer lasting materials.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Thank you for explain me this. So if i understand i will need to obtain some stron base notes -like wood to last long? You say will not last long eau de colongne, is possible to mix something to make it last longer or is becouse i use EO ? Cose if i put EO on my skin will not last long, if i put sintetic oil, will smell all day. So i have question, can EO compare to sintetic oils in duration of smell?

    I got this recipie:

    Eau-de-Cologne

    16 drops bergamot
    15 drops petitgrain
    2 drops orange
    15 drops lemon
    5 drops lavender
    5 drops neroli
    10 ml orange flower water
    230 ml alcohol/vodka

    Place the alcohol/vodka base into your glass mixing container, add the oils in the order listed and mix well. Bottle, cap and leave the mixture for 4 days and then add the orange flower water and re-cap. Leave the mixture for at least two weeks, giving the bottle a gentle shake every day.

    There is 10 ml floral water, that hydrosol right (lavender)?

    Dono how those days are eau de cologne, but i think people just prefer eau de toilette

  13. #13

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    that could work, because there is only a very little water. but do not use vodka!

    it will be short lived. that's just it's nature! what you have are all topnotes, it does not matter what they are, synth or natural (the shortest of all are synthetic in fact.) topnotes are short-lived, period.

    there are some natural fixatives, but the choices are extremely limited. the best natural fixatives are almost all animalic. ambergris, civet, and so on. most are hard to get, very expensive and notoriously often adulterated or fake stuff. you can forget about natural musk tonkin (the real stuff) all together.

    ambergris is probably your best bet of these. you could try to make this perfume in a very light and well matured ambergris tincture (instead of unprepared ethanol).

    with synthetics you have many and often better options.

    but to get a good perfume from top-to-base, that's not easy. you will need to study a couple of years and lots of practice before you will be able to even approach it.

    what you have is basically some version of an old-fashioned (19th century) eau de cologne recipe. if you don't like that, then why use it in the first place? yes, guerlain could transform a cologne effectively into a eau de toilette. roudnitska could transform a cologne into a brilliant eau de toilette (it took him a few decades). and let's not forget about henri robert. these perfumers where masters of the art! and these perfumes where inventive masterpieces.

    my point? it is not nearly as simple as, add a few basenotes, and you're done.

    but nothing stops you from getting a little ambergris and some ambrettolide and add tiny amounts of it to the alcohol (and let it mature for half a year) that you use in this formula. expect only small miracles. ;)
    Last edited by gido; 24th March 2013 at 09:28 AM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Huh that sounds complicated. No, i have no intention to build my own special mixes ets. Just was trying to make some prefume or eau de toilatte from our own lavender EO and mayby some other EO, to get nice smelly mixture. Also EO and sytetic oils i should not mix right? Only eo vith eo ?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rencelj View Post
    Huh that sounds complicated. No, i have no intention to build my own special mixes ets. Just was trying to make some prefume or eau de toilatte from our own lavender EO and mayby some other EO, to get nice smelly mixture. Also EO and sytetic oils i should not mix right? Only eo vith eo ?
    Synthetics will mix fine just use Ethanol not vodka! If you literally just want to play with some essential oils, grab a bottle, and fill with about 20% oils and 80% alcohol. I cant say how many drips etc because i dont know what bottle size you have and what recipe your after. If you can get your hands on just a cheap bottle of Cedar oil or something that'll act as a kind of base.
    This isnt serious stuff though just fun.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Quote Originally Posted by Rencelj View Post
    Also EO and sytetic oils i should not mix right? Only eo vith eo ?
    eh..

    who told you that? it's plain nonsense.

    eo's are actually made out of the same molecules that we use as synthetics. for instance, we have the synthetic linalool. but linalool is part of lavender oil, bergamot oil, and many others, too. you could isolate linalool from rosewood oil, which is nearly pure linalool, and you will have the same thing as synthetic linalool (except for impurities from the process.)

    have you already remade the perfume from you formula? why don't you try it. remember, no water, no vodka! the hydrosol is fine, it's not enough water to create problems. about 10% water in total is safe (remember there is already about 4% water in 96% ethanol). you might actually like it the way it is!
    Last edited by gido; 24th March 2013 at 01:47 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    I made now 18ml of Etanol 96% and 2.2ml of Lavenfer EO + i add 10 drops of Gycerin (dono if i should use it). The smell is ok, but the lasting is terible. The smell is only basic, so mayby mixing any other eo with it will be nice ( to upgrade it to give it a soul), to get some fresh-flower smell. Yes, will not use water more than 6% than.

    Any sugesstions on making my blend would be appreciate.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    no glycerin..

    where do you get these ideas?
    Last edited by gido; 24th March 2013 at 07:02 PM.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    I think i read it here on forum that someone is using glycerin as fixative.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    the amount of bizarre ideas of how perfume is made sometimes makes me scratch my head. i wonder who comes up with this stuff, and why do these people think they need to share their nonsensical ideas? it's misleading others. the problem is that these ideas are really rather widespread. this forum feels sometimes a bit like a nhs instead of a diy, so many people who tried to make perfume according to these schemes and ended up with 'mysterious' failure. luckily, we have some good doctors around. ;)

  21. #21

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    and this is thoroughly reliable:-
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/314...using-glycerin
    Last edited by lpp; 24th March 2013 at 08:07 PM.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    Thats where i saw post yes. Thx you for all answers. Now i know that i dont mix water in blend. So my next research should be on finding recipe for toilette ot perfume (lavender -fresh-flower smell) that will last "long" and not 30 min

  23. #23

    Default Re: Alcohol-oil-water mixing

    good luck.

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