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  1. #1

    Default Nutty old Mitsouko

    Hello all

    I recently fell in love with, and purchased, Mitsouko extrait in its newest incarnation. It's rich and spicy and fabulous. However, now the genie is well and truly out of the bottle, and I've been hunting around trying to get some vintage stuff to try.

    At a flea market this weekend I scored a pre-formulation, but not terribly old, EdT (batch code MA1AE). Expecting spice and plummy peach, I was surprised to discover a nutty, almost praline-like top note instead. Is this a feature of the old formulation, or just a result of ageing in less than perfect conditions? There was no box.

    Thing is, I'd love to find the dark, green, mossy juice of legend, but if the nutty note is a prominent feature I think I'll stick to the recent parfums.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Sounds to me that the top note has gone off. An uncovered bottle,(was it less than full?) will deteriorate fairly quickly; dependent on how it was stored, of course.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    As David was saying, the top notes go off very easily, especially if the bottle has been store improperly. Unfortunately, this is a common occurrence in vintage perfumes. Sometimes, even if the top is gone, the middle and drydown are ok.

    cacio

  4. #4

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I'm not the greatest Mitsouko Connoisseur, but it does not age well IMO. Also, to my experience EdTs age less well in general in comparison to extraits (not only Mitsouko), but as the others were saying storage conditions are crucial. The old PdT was much praised and I bought a bottle a year ago in order to wear it layered with the new extrait - at times when it is too peachy for my taste. However, I find the old PdT not terribly different from the new extrait, just a bit mossier, but not dramatically so. Mind you, I never liked the vintage extrait, no matter who provided me with a sample - too earthy, too much mushroom-in-a-damp-forest.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I agree with Larimar in a way that old Mitsouko smells very natural, that is what i like about Mitsouko so much, i dont smell peaches so much, but more something earthy spicy like its galbanum, its gorgeous, modern perfumes when spiced smell of pepper and synthetic alot, and very prominent note is some dirtiness, from musk maybe?
    I did not wear it too many times, but its def one scent that takes may "shapes" depending of the mood, it can be demanding......this is PDT,

    EDT is much easier, its thinner , more masculine,'like sharper and thinner.....but if it smells of praline...hm maybe that's not Mitsokuo at all?......i think fakes circle in the market a lot

  6. #6

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Thanks everyone for your thoughts. The bottle was nearly empty, so I'll put it down to bad storage and keep looking.

    I've seen a couple of bottles of the PdT on offer, but they've all been opened/half-used. Maybe deterioration is less of a risky with this strength? I'd love to try it. The holy grail is still a well-stored, sealed vintage extract, however.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Good luck - opened bottles are less likely to be fakes, but may have suffered from storage/oxidation as others have suggested.
    I have an older one that was sealed & fine when opened.....
    Joy & Quadrille are amongst those very prone to this too imo, but will give you an idea of the original in the middle notes for reference if nothing else.
    The stronger the concentration, the better they seem to last.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Are there many fake bottles around? I thought counterfeit fragrances would most likely be Chanel No. 5 and the other big hitters.

    For anyone interested in sampling the vintage extrait in all its glory, what is the cut-off date? I know that the oakmoss was tinkered with before 2006, but also that the version immediately before Fléchier was brought it was not much liked. Where does that leave us?
    Last edited by saminlondon; 3rd April 2013 at 06:39 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I've never heard of a fake Mitsoko either. It would be expensive to fake convincingly and is not a mainstream big seller.

    With Mitsouko, I would not buy opened vintage bottles that have not been stored in their box. The juice should be amber, not a very dark cocoa or black, I think.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  10. #10

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Apologies for unclear post, - didn't mean that Mitsouko would be faked!
    Last edited by lpp; 3rd April 2013 at 09:02 AM.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Are there many fake bottles around? I thought counterfeit fragrances would most likely be Chanel No. 5 and the other big hitters.
    I think there are many fake bottles, by fake i mean not that perfume at all, esp. among opened bottles, i had a luck to get 2 out of 2 such shalimars on ebay , one was from UK, and third Shalimar i have tried was very bad, top notes gone, and since i was not searching for a long time i presume there are many bad bottles around! Dont buy unsniffed, if opened:-) , 2 fakes i got had some water, the 3rd bad shalimar was undetectable, almost did not smell at all

  12. #12

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    ...
    Last edited by lpp; 4th April 2013 at 02:05 AM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I don't think it's the bottle that's faked, but the juice inside. Regrettably, with vintage on ebay, there's always the risk that the content is diluted, if not altogether filled with random colored liquids. If the original post guarantees that there is original liquid, then one can resent. But most times, the seller specifies explicitly that he does not know what's inside, in which case, it's one's own risk.

    cacio

  14. #14

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I guess sealed is the way to go - unless one takes the risk, as you say.

    Does anyone know when Flechier got to work specifically on the extrait, and what the previous incarnation - say, around 2005, 2006 - is like?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I'll share my experience, although, I am not familiar with this scent. While going down memory lane, I purchased Shalimar, which lead me to some other guerlains and I ended up purchasing a vintage edt of Mitsouko. The scent, to me is very masculine. I believe I smell pepper, woods (cedar?) but no peach and no nuts. I will post a link to auction.
    item: Mitsouko edt
    item #: 390569284595
    seller: betrosemary
    Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390569284595...84.m1439.l2649

  16. #16

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I've never smelled Mitsouko in any formulation but would like to for the peach note.
    "One gives freely, yet grows all the richer; another withholds what he should give, and only suffers want." Proverbs.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by evesorto View Post
    I'll share my experience, although, I am not familiar with this scent. While going down memory lane, I purchased Shalimar, which lead me to some other guerlains and I ended up purchasing a vintage edt of Mitsouko. The scent, to me is very masculine. I believe I smell pepper, woods (cedar?) but no peach and no nuts. I will post a link to auction.
    item: Mitsouko edt
    item #: 390569284595
    seller: betrosemary
    Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390569284595...84.m1439.l2649
    There's a very good chance that one is bad. With that label, it's over 50 years old, has been exposed to air since its been open for an unknown length of time, and has probably been stored in the open since its boxless.

    You still haven't experienced Mitsouko if this is your only exposure to it. The top notes, including the peachy aldehyde, are likely deteriorated beyond recognition.

    I strongly recommend against buying any perfume this old that is unsealed and unboxed, unless you are mostly interested in the bottle.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  18. #18

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Thanks for this information. It makes sense to me now why the vintage shalimar I also purchased smelled nice; they both came boxed/sealed.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Sorry to hark on about this, but does anyone know whether there was a problem with Mitsouko - aside from removal of oak moss - just before the Fléchier reformulation?

    I've read something along those lines - that he was brought in to bring the fragrance back up to scratch after a disastrous few years. Should we therefore avoid buying 'vintage' Mitsouko from the years immediately prior?

    And is IFRA-compliant oakmoss now back in? Aaargh, my head is spinning!

  20. #20

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Sorry to hark on about this, but does anyone know whether there was a problem with Mitsouko - aside from removal of oak moss - just before the Fléchier reformulation?

    I've read something along those lines - that he was brought in to bring the fragrance back up to scratch after a disastrous few years. Should we therefore avoid buying 'vintage' Mitsouko from the years immediately prior?

    And is IFRA-compliant oakmoss now back in? Aaargh, my head is spinning!
    The fact that Fléchier was brought in to do damage limitation speaks volumes: I would avoid the formulation that was produced after the removal of oakmoss and before Fléchier's re-jigging with treemoss etc.

    I have some oakmoss-containing extrait and when it's finished, I shan't be replacing it with the current version. For me, the sombre earthiness which the oakmoss imparts contrasts perfectly with the peachy aldehyde. But it is not to everyone's taste.

    There is, apparently, some IFRA compliant oakmoss now being used in perfumery, but I'll leave it to someone qualified to tell you about it.

    Edit: Have you read Monsieur Guerlain's post ? http://monsieurguerlain2.blogspot.co.../mitsouko.html

  21. #21

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    The fact that Fléchier was brought in to do damage limitation speaks volumes: I would avoid the formulation that was produced after the removal of oakmoss and before Fléchier's re-jigging with treemoss etc.

    ...

    Edit: Have you read Monsieur Guerlain's post ? http://monsieurguerlain2.blogspot.co.../mitsouko.html
    Yes, Monsieur Guerlain's blog is an excellent resource. He doesn't, however, mention anything about 'damage limitation' - just that Fléchier was brought in to make the perfume IFRA compliant.

    Unlike you, I adore the present Mitsouko - at least in its extrait form. But that also makes me wonder what the older, 'vintage' version(s) were like, and which would be suitable to try. Hence my hand-wringing, as I try to navigate my way through the slim pickings available on eBay. I'm still quite new to all of this!

  22. #22

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Yes, Monsieur Guerlain's blog is an excellent resource. He doesn't, however, mention anything about 'damage limitation' - just that Fléchier was brought in to make the perfume IFRA compliant..
    I think you're right (so please ignore my previous statement). Somehow I thought there was an intermediary formulation, but I must have confused myself.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by evesorto View Post
    I'll share my experience, although, I am not familiar with this scent. While going down memory lane, I purchased Shalimar, which lead me to some other guerlains and I ended up purchasing a vintage edt of Mitsouko. The scent, to me is very masculine. I believe I smell pepper, woods (cedar?) but no peach and no nuts. I will post a link to auction.
    item: Mitsouko edt
    item #: 390569284595
    seller: betrosemary
    Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/390569284595...84.m1439.l2649
    The edt i have smells very masculine to me too, and very different then edp, thinner and sharp, peachy note is only at the beginning there,where it smells nice! so until i tried edp i was not so impressed
    ....so your description is kind of ok to me.....

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Yes, Monsieur Guerlain's blog is an excellent resource. He doesn't, however, mention anything about 'damage limitation' - just that Fléchier was brought in to make the perfume IFRA compliant.
    I agree - MG is a fantastic resource. He also says that Mitsouko has changed continuously over the last 30 years, with gradual changes over time, making very difficult to identify when a clear change in the formulation occured.

    After Flechier, I think it has changed again, with the introduction of the new modified oakmoss. Wasser mentioned it in the interview he did for BN last year:

    http://www.basenotes.net/content/919...Thierry-Wasser

    I suspect that even before Flechier, it must have changed as oakmoss began to be more restricted. I don't know when, but I have the impression that it has been restricted for over 20 years, with the amount usable decreasing over time. I may be wrong about that ...

    Anyway, I always try to get gold/black box or black/white zigzag to avoid all the confusion. The only modern one I have is pretty bad, but I think it's before the new oakmoss version.

    Quote Originally Posted by iivanita View Post
    The edt i have smells very masculine to me too, and very different then edp, thinner and sharp, peachy note is only at the beginning there,where it smells nice! so until i tried edp i was not so impressed
    ....so your description is kind of ok to me.....
    What vintage is yours? The EdT I have is newer than eversorto's, but still pre-IFRA, I think. I believe it's about 30 years old. Here's the bottle - I got it sealed in the gold and black box.



    I also have a modern EdP bought about 2 years ago - batch code 1s01. I think this is after the Flechier reformulation, but before the Wasser one new oakmoss one.

    You've made me curious, as its been a while since I tried the EdP. I've just sprayed each on one arm.

    The EdT is very tart and mossy - certainly recognizable as vintage Mitsouko. Not as rich and floral as the vintage parfum - dryer and, yes, sharper. The peach aldehyde persists in mine. After the opening, it softens, and tartness recedes, leaving a soft, dry peachy floral.

    My EdP is pretty terrible. I wouldn't recognize it as Mitsouko, to be honest. The opening is very shrill and synthetic, with none of that earthy tartness that the vintage has, and the peach is hard to detect behind the noise. Once it settles down, its better, but still a pale shadow of its former self. The peach aldehyde seems to be there, but the rest seems like a bit of a cheap modern synthetic mess.

    I wouldn't say that this is typical - from what I've heard, it seems like every recent batch of Mitsouko is different, with some bad and some good. I get the impression that the IFRA guidelines are changing quickly, and Guerlain are changing the formula constantly, trying to keep up.

    - - - Updated - - -

    UPDATE:

    OK - I'm liking the EdP now, about 2 hours after application. The harsh, synthetic part has burned off, leaving a nice fluffy peachy floral, slightly modern, but by no means a typical fruity floral. It has a bit of dryness in the base which gives it something like a chypric character, but it's not like a mossy base. Its more airy and clean, maybe with some vetiver and white musks? It seems that this formulation was composed for the drydown, and they couldn't get the opening right at the same time. Certainly, the DD is the best part by far, and the most Mitsouko-ey. It was pretty rough getting to this point, though. I can't imagine many people buying this after sniffing it off of a blotter in a shop. Then again, most Mitsouko buyers are probably not first-timers.

    The EDT is fading faster, becoming more of a skin scent by now. It's still very elegant, but soft and smooth. Very light. If I were wearing it as a SotD, I'd be ready to reapply by now. This is only on skin, though. I think it would last much longer on clothes, as my skin kills fragrance quickly. It would be great layered with the parfum, adding some projection for the first couple of hours.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Lovely post Rubegon,

    I have just EDT sample i got from Cacio,it is vintage but dont know the year, and PDT 5 ml decant i bought from one BNer, Shalimar i have all 3 concentrations: EDC, EDT, and decant of PDT i bought together with Mitsouko PDT,

    Both PDTs were part of a large split, so i was told, and came from those big bottles with dark glass, not a perfume bottles one sells in a shop, he explained to me and showed the bottle and that was 1 st time i saw such big bottles exist they look like refills,so must be from 80s when its PDT, and both smell fantastic!

    And now i checked again EDTvs PDT Mitsouko, EDT is much much weaker,pale in comparison, but the opening is very like Mitsouko, i remeber i tried it at the beginning of my sniffing where i already had aversion to oakmoss perfumes, based on what i smelled in modern perfumes, and was surprised to smell it so sweet, mossy, and different then anything i tried, but it fades away SO quickly, it could not keep my interest for too long,
    the PDT is like 3 -4 times stronger, so the 2 Mitsoukos smells like Shalimar PDT vs Shalimar EDC. Since i have just a sample of EDT i dont spray it but dab, still i miss there that peachy creaminess, then that depth and longevity,its like drier, much much simpler,
    the PDT is versatile, its so strong, and smells for hours, then i smell some animalics in it, it can be demanding, its a mix of sweetness, earthiness, spiciness, and it took my breath away, only when i tried this PDT i could understand why this is THE PERFUME:-) , i think its one of the best!.......i can not stop wondering how gorgeous it is.....

    And this all came unexpectedly, i bought it just because i was after Shalimar PDTand took it together then, and was expecting so much more from Shalimar lol, but in the end i think the nicest Shalimar for me is EDTfrom 80s i have, the PDT is nice but maybe too sharp, synthetic almost, rich, but in a way similar to the 2011 version, now there is new, new version of it, and is much much different, more in line with modern stuff and better imo.

    So both Shalimar and Mitsouko PDTs smell to me much richer, and stronger then what one smells today as EDP in perfumery, ok i did not try any modern Mitsouko.
    Last edited by iivanita; 6th April 2013 at 10:54 AM.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    Hello all

    Expecting spice and plummy peach, I was surprised to discover a nutty, almost praline-like top note instead. Is this a feature of the old formulation, or just a result of ageing in less than perfect conditions? There was no box.

    Thing is, I'd love to find the dark, green, mossy juice of legend, but if the nutty note is a prominent feature I think I'll stick to the recent parfums.
    My most recent sample of Mitsouko is a more recently formulated EDP. It has plenty of peach but it also has plently of what I always perceive as "nuttiness", specifically peanut oil nuttiness. Every sample I've ever had of Mitsouko featured this nutty quality. I think if you read through the reviews of Mitsouko you will find other users who perceive this nuttiness, some of who are turned off by it. I have no recollection of what formulations they were sampling.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd bump up a slightly older one.

    I recently purchased Mitsouko EDT from a small shop, no box, but it's been preserved very well in the dark and in a cool place. The colour is amber and the smell is just divine. It's clear there is a very noticeable oakmoss/green/woody accord in there with the peach aldehydes much more in the background then in recent formulations. It's in the heart shaped stopper bottle.

    Batch code is VK 14P, I used Raiders of the lost scents blog to help trying to determine from what year this was made, but am not 100% sure yet. I know this is definitely made before 2001 and most likely made somewhere in the 90's but would like confirmation of what year exactly, if possible, it was made.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Good idea to keep the info. together, canuck21.

    Does anyone have pics of the latest Mitsouko packaging, please - or did it stay the same after being improved?

  29. #29

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by canuck21 View Post
    Instead of starting a new thread, I thought I'd bump up a slightly older one.

    I recently purchased Mitsouko EDT from a small shop, no box, but it's been preserved very well in the dark and in a cool place. The colour is amber and the smell is just divine. It's clear there is a very noticeable oakmoss/green/woody accord in there with the peach aldehydes much more in the background then in recent formulations. It's in the heart shaped stopper bottle.

    Batch code is VK 14P, I used Raiders of the lost scents blog to help trying to determine from what year this was made, but am not 100% sure yet. I know this is definitely made before 2001 and most likely made somewhere in the 90's but would like confirmation of what year exactly, if possible, it was made.
    According to André's patent Guerlain batch-code demystifier, that one would date to 1998.

    Have you tried the most recent EdT, from 2013 on? It's very good stuff. The box design hasn't changed.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    I'm hoping to get to try some from the new batch very soon! I found some in a nearby city so now I just need to find some time to get over there!

  31. #31

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Thanks, saminlondon - hope you enjoy it danieq.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Quote Originally Posted by saminlondon View Post
    According to André's patent Guerlain batch-code demystifier, that one would date to 1998.

    Have you tried the most recent EdT, from 2013 on? It's very good stuff. The box design hasn't changed.
    Thank you very much! Makes sense, it's just old enough to still retain the surreal green chypre, oak moss accord that has been missing in recent years.

    No I have yet to try the recent EDT, but from what I've read, it seems Wasser has done wonders with it so I hope to try it very soon.

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Well, I haven't yet gotten the new stuff, but I did acquire a bottle of 1983 EdC and a 2009 edp and I really am enjoying both. Such a unique scent.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    Yes - it really is a classic.
    My elderly EdC just reminds me of it's beauty, a bottle of the strong stuff is definitely on the 'to do' list!

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    Default Re: Nutty old Mitsouko

    saminlondon - in case you didn't know: Guerlain will make Mitsouko Body Lotion for customers that special order it from the France location. I heard this from an SA @ the Vegas boutique.

    I own vintage EdC, vintage EdT (just like in that bottle rubegon posted above) and I used to own vintage Parfum which I went thru super fast (prob' from the 1960's - it was in that b&w zigzag print outer box). I would love to smell 'new' Parfum, I never have.
    "The beginning of freedom is the realization that you are not the "thinker." The moment you start watching the thinker, a higher level of consciousness becomes activated. You then begin to realize that there is a vast realm of intelligence beyond thought, that thought is only a tiny aspect of that intelligence. You also realize that all the things that truly matter - beauty, love, creativity, joy, inner peace - arise from beyond the mind.

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