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  1. #31
    silentrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Here on basenote's reformulation grows into paranoia that "SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT... OHHHHH...NOOOO.... NOW I NEED TO GO OUT AND BUY 15 BOTTLES!!!" Most of what your going to smell different, if there is a reformulation, is going to be in the top notes which is the most fleeting part of a fragrance. In reality how different is the fragrance? 95% the same 75%. One thing I do know is the price sure isn't the same.

  2. #32

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    Here on basenote's reformulation grows into paranoia that "SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT... OHHHHH...NOOOO.... NOW I NEED TO GO OUT AND BUY 15 BOTTLES!!!" Most of what your going to smell different, if there is a reformulation, is going to be in the top notes which is the most fleeting part of a fragrance. In reality how different is the fragrance? 95% the same 75%. One thing I do know is the price sure isn't the same.
    For me the openings are usually similar enough, and it's only when I developed an olfactory fatigue technique that I began to really understand the base notes and notice that there were huge differences. However, if you enjoy the new Bijan for Men, for example, then by all means spread the olfactory love, as you certainly will with that one!

  3. #33
    silentrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    For me the openings are usually similar enough, and it's only when I developed an olfactory fatigue technique that I began to really understand the base notes and notice that there were huge differences. However, if you enjoy the new Bijan for Men, for example, then by all means spread the olfactory love, as you certainly will with that one!
    I probably would like the newer version since it is an 80's fragrance. Most of the newer reformulations have the same notes, but they just tone it down a bit, or tone down specific notes (Dior Homme). Regulations controlled the reformulations on those fragrances. Today profit controls the reformulations.

  4. #34
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    If you'd loved the original Ubar and tried the recent formulation, you'll understand why reformulation is such a thorny issue. To dismiss a reformulated scent based on 'fleeting top notes' is misguided. So is generalizing most reformulations as affecting top notes alone.

    If one can't smell significant differences between 2 formulations, I say 'Congratulations'. But it doesn't mean others can't. It's pretty much like hi fi. Not everybody can hear the difference when system components are changed but experienced ears can and will tell you exactly which part is different.

  5. #35

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    I probably would like the newer version since it is an 80's fragrance. Most of the newer reformulations have the same notes, but they just tone it down a bit, or tone down specific notes (Dior Homme). Regulations controlled the reformulations on those fragrances. Today profit controls the reformulations.
    Well this is not the case at all with the Bijan, which is loud and crass in the new formulation. The original wasn't that far from Patou Pour Homme, by contrast.

  6. #36
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    I'm completely against reformulations on any level I believe that fragrance creations are works of art and are created perfectly as they are for what they are. If a company decides to make "crowd pleasers" they should just come out with a NEW scent reminiscent of that original and leave the current formulations alone. It is so upsetting and frustrating to not be able to get the original scent. Everything has changed, it's all diluted and different from the originals...sad and tragic really; nothing smells the same anymore!

  7. #37

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by peachply View Post
    I'm completely against reformulations on any level I believe that fragrance creations are works of art and are created perfectly as they are for what they are. If a company decides to make "crowd pleasers" they should just come out with a NEW scent reminiscent of that original and leave the current formulations alone. It is so upsetting and frustrating to not be able to get the original scent. Everything has changed, it's all diluted and different from the originals...sad and tragic really; nothing smells the same anymore!
    I just finished a new blog post that I have yet to "publish" in which I ask, why not just call the new formulation something like Homage Zino or Cool Water Today, or Bijan Moderne for Men if you are going to change it significantly? And with the regulations of today, how many of these older scents can be reformulated without significant changes?

  8. #38
    Dependent heperd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    I just finished a new blog post that I have yet to "publish" in which I ask, why not just call the new formulation something like Homage Zino or Cool Water Today, or Bijan Moderne for Men if you are going to change it significantly? And with the regulations of today, how many of these older scents can be reformulated without significant changes?
    I assume youre joking right? So they should change the name of a fragrance to satisfy 10 people who arent even going to buy the fragrance anyway?
    Want to trade - Chanel Platinum Egoiste for Dior Eau Sauvage...
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  9. #39

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    The wonderful reformulation debate....

    I was also going to mention Caleche and also Cabochard here. These are ghost cousins of their originals, but I still like the Cabochard for being actually quite wearable post reformulation. The original 1959 was a superb monster of a perfume, fat and powerful with huge basenotes of smoke and leather. Its lesser new cousin is a gentle but still sultry creature by comparison and she certainly doesn't smoke or drink. Modern youth for you.....

    I am obviously a fan of the originals being a keen collector of many vintage fragrances. I do feel any reformulation should be marked in some way on the bottles with batch numbers or the like so that one is left in the know about whether we have version 3 or 33. This would satisfy me enough to not mind. It is only the lack of choice in the matter that irks.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  10. #40
    Basenotes Junkie Profumo Saggio's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    I assume youre joking right? So they should change the name of a fragrance to satisfy 10 people who arent even going to buy the fragrance anyway?
    Pretty much what I think every time I read another "Oh my God, they just reformulated..." thread.
    I don't have a signature fragrance. My signature changes a little bit every day, why shouldn't my fragrance?
    Currently wearing: H.M. by Hanae Mori

  11. #41

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    I assume youre joking right?
    How did the tallest trees begin their lives? Moreover, it's now "the internet age," and word can get around very quickly. But beyond all that, there is a desire to get the word out to enthusiasts, even if it never makes it to the "mainstream." In general, that is one of the major functions of a site like this.

  12. #42
    silentrich's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    How did the tallest trees begin their lives? Moreover, it's now "the internet age," and word can get around very quickly. But beyond all that, there is a desire to get the word out to enthusiasts, even if it never makes it to the "mainstream." In general, that is one of the major functions of a site like this.
    The problem with that is the information has to be factual. With reformulations there are very few facts so most of it is very subjective. For example you brought up Zino. I have a vintage decant of it and I can't tell the difference from the new stuff. Smells the same, projects the same, and lasts just as long on my skin. Unless a reformulation is an absolute disaster or a big improvement on the original it's probably not going to be talked about much.
    Last edited by silentrich; 8th April 2013 at 03:36 PM.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    I would agree a re-naming when reformulating. Let's be honest about it if it's new and different from the original let the people know. A reformulation IS something NEW and DIFFERENT, it's not the same, not the original. It is something else and that's a fact.

  14. #44
    Dependent heperd's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    How did the tallest trees begin their lives? Moreover, it's now "the internet age," and word can get around very quickly. But beyond all that, there is a desire to get the word out to enthusiasts, even if it never makes it to the "mainstream." In general, that is one of the major functions of a site like this.

    Stuck inside the Basenotes Bubble again? Honestly there are maybe only 10 people in the entire world that have strong concerns about reformulations and they will never have any influence on gigantic companies that make these fragrances.
    Most people agree that reformulations do exist, but the current products are usually good enough. I like the original formulas of some frags and that makes hunting them down one more fun aspect of this hobby.
    Want to trade - Chanel Platinum Egoiste for Dior Eau Sauvage...
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/394...82#post3308582

  15. #45

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    The wonderful reformulation debate....

    I was also going to mention Caleche and also Cabochard here. These are ghost cousins of their originals, but I still like the Cabochard for being actually quite wearable post reformulation. The original 1959 was a superb monster of a perfume, fat and powerful with huge basenotes of smoke and leather. Its lesser new cousin is a gentle but still sultry creature by comparison and she certainly doesn't smoke or drink. Modern youth for you.....

    I am obviously a fan of the originals being a keen collector of many vintage fragrances. I do feel any reformulation should be marked in some way on the bottles with batch numbers or the like so that one is left in the know about whether we have version 3 or 33. This would satisfy me enough to not mind. It is only the lack of choice in the matter that irks.
    I generally agree with the idea of indicating the version (it need not necessarily be a numbered version e.g. 3, or 3.3 or 33) but batch numbers are rather clumsy (see all derision over checkcosmetic.net and other websites). Companies should be less secretive about dating their production batches. I would be happy just to see a year of manufacture; such a practice would reasonably and conveniently let users know how old their bottles are. Unless major reformulations occur within a single year, this would be good enough to let people have the choice in buying bottles made in specific years.

  16. #46
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    I can see how if you've not been exposed to an original then it's not going to affect your sense of purity of what the scent really is...this division seems like a generational thing. If you've only known the reformulation then that's all you know, you don't feel cheated. I'd say there are many people who feel very disappointed when their beloved scents are changed, they are just not using their voices to be heard.

  17. #47
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by silentrich View Post
    Here on basenote's reformulation grows into paranoia that "SOMETHING IS DIFFERENT... OHHHHH...NOOOO.... NOW I NEED TO GO OUT AND BUY 15 BOTTLES!!!" Most of what your going to smell different, if there is a reformulation, is going to be in the top notes which is the most fleeting part of a fragrance. In reality how different is the fragrance? 95% the same 75%. One thing I do know is the price sure isn't the same.
    I am little amazed that members since 2008, 2009 talk about reformulations in 2013:-) , obviously top 5 most widely used basenotes materials are synthetics and can not be used real stuff as they were used pre IFRA or until they were available( indian sandalwoos).....looks like some of you just woke up now:-)

    And those who can not smell the difference, between reformulations:-) should consider themselves blessed because the future is all yours lol

  18. #48
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    It is quite possibly a subject for 'anoraks' (aka 'oldies', maybe), but if more people knew the originals they might be disillusioned too

  19. #49

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    That's me.. an oldie anorak!!!! As I know some of the originals. It doesn't stop me loving new perfumes in the slightest. Quite the contrary. It just makes me appreciate the superbly blended modern ones all the more for their limitations and makes me less tolerant of terrible flyspray in beautiful boxes. It makes the whole thing so much more interesting in the search for the grail.

    Year of manufacture would be lovely on the bottle preferably. It could go a long way towards increased sales by encouraging collectors to have more than one bottle as the reformulations happen. Change the design slightly too and there is suddenly a collectable range. It may however not be applicable much longer because there are precious few ingredients left in that bag.

    Please note that it is only relevant if the perfume house is signed up to the rules. The free are still free..... so far anyway.
    Currently wearing: Civet by Houbigant

  20. #50
    Super Member NineInchNell's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    EXCELLENT THREAD
    It isn't until I smell the vintage version that I realize the negative impact of a reformulation.
    MISS DIOR and L'HEURE BLEUE. I guess that's why I like vintage perfumes so much.

  21. #51

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Good Reformulations (better than the originals IMO)
    Hermes Bel Ami
    Chanel Egoiste

    Neutral Reformulations (Meh...)
    Dior Homme Intense
    Dior Fahrenheit

    BAD reformulations
    Ungaro III
    Versace L'Homme
    Dior Homme EDT

  22. #52
    Surfacing's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by iivanita View Post
    I am little amazed that members since 2008, 2009 talk about reformulations in 2013:-) , obviously top 5 most widely used basenotes materials are synthetics and can not be used real stuff as they were used pre IFRA or until they were available( indian sandalwoos).....looks like some of you just woke up now:-) ...
    I don't understand what you are getting at here ? How do you know those members have not discussed or were concerned about reformulations in prior years? There is also alot of valuable information in the Basenotes archieves and reviews that are helpful ( sadly, I think alot of that information was somehow "disappeared".
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Aramis New West, Alain Delon Iquitos, Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Oxford & Cambridge, Azzaro pour Homme (vintage),...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of PdE Ambre Russe, Jil Sander Feeling Man, Comme des Garcons 2 Man, Giorgio VIP, ....etc. I have samples to swap.

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  23. #53

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Old Moustache, new Moustache, reformulation horror, imo. There are several others where I can only suspect that the original versions smelled less thin and cheap.

  24. #54
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    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    I tend to take all reformulation woes with a big pinch of salt. Sure, reformulations happen but I reckon age plays a huge factor in widening the discrepancy. I think most older, 'vintage' bottles have ingredients that have changed or possibly spoiled. My older bottles initially smell a bit strange but once the top notes fade, it's back to regularly scheduled programming. When you compare this with a newer version which has been altered slightly, the differences would appear to be much bigger than they really are. Just a hunch.

    For this reason, I find it very difficult to trust comparisons until I actually do them myself so I can evaluate for myself. Ungaro III has supposedly been altered beyond all possible recognition. I love the current version so much I fear I may not like the vintage formula as it may emphasize/de-emphasize parts of the fragrance I dislike/like.

    I'm not denying that some fragrances have been altered beyond recognition. But DHI for me is still more of the same. Seems to have more Iris now but it's still largely the same to my nose.
    Check out my Fragrance Review Blog

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  25. #55

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Critic View Post
    ...I'm not denying that some fragrances have been altered beyond recognition...
    Very few have been reformulated in that way. Instead, there is an attempt to make it smell very similar at first. In some cases, such as the new Grey Flannel and Cool Water, it smells similar but is heavier/denser, with a fuzzy/muddled quality. And the top notes of old scents are not what I'm talking about when I say that I will not wear a reformulated one because I try to avoid most of the top notes anyway (as I've been saying for years here). Instead, the biggest issue seems to be cheaper base notes, and my guess is that some people simply can't detect ones that have been replaced, especially sandalwood. The problem for them is that if they do detect it at some point they will likely feel "ripped off" by the reformulation.

  26. #56

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bigsly View Post
    In some cases, such as the new Grey Flannel and Cool Water, it smells similar but is heavier/denser, with a fuzzy/muddled quality. .
    I have to agree about coolwater. Loved the stuff back in the day but I tried wearing it as of present and just could not do it.

  27. #57

    Default Re: The Great Reformulation Debate.

    I would like to chime in about reformulations; as of now as consumers we can vote with our wallet! simply not patronizing fragrances that were poorly reformulated is the way to this; no income from certain line =discontinue

    Yes, maybe some are romantics chasing the glories of the past vintage perfumes but for me what is important is the NOW. My principle on this is move on, move forward find the "new" fragrance that will give you that ecstasy. It is worth remembering and acknowledging the past but we do not live in the past we live for today.

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