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  1. #1
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    Default Plum Note / Accord

    Given that we have such help here, I'm trying to make a Plum accord, but not really getting there.

    Do you have any thoughts about the path for it?

    Thanks...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Have you tried Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Acetate or Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Butyrate? The Butyrate is longer lasting but I would recommend using both the Acetate and Butyrate for more full and stronger smelling plum notes. You can purchase both at the PerfumersApprentice. If you do decide to purchase these chemicals please post what you think of them. Thank you.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by BAGreat View Post
    Have you tried Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Acetate or Dimethyl Benzyl Carbinyl Butyrate? The Butyrate is longer lasting but I would recommend using both the Acetate and Butyrate for more full and stronger smelling plum notes. You can purchase both at the PerfumersApprentice. If you do decide to purchase these chemicals please post what you think of them. Thank you.
    Hi Paul,

    I agree with the DMBCA and DMBCB mentioned by BAGreat. I'd include damascenones (as I sure you've already figured) and Prunella (Firm) and also alpha ionone for some dry floralcy.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by Mark View Post
    Hi Paul,

    I agree with the DMBCA and DMBCB mentioned by BAGreat. I'd include damascenones (as I sure you've already figured) and Prunella (Firm) and also alpha ionone for some dry floralcy.
    Agreed except I think I'd use beta-Ionone, which I think is fruitier than the alpha. The Firmenich Prunella is an ideal starting point certainly and I would also consider ethyl methyl-2-butyrate (Givaudan, but widely available) to enhance the top-note.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Thanks guys... I have yet to acquire the Prunella, Pyroprunat, Mirabelle 2000D, or any of the other plum/prune bases.
    (except for Datilat, a bit of a distant cousin...)

    I have the DMBCA and DMBCB, but as someone else said on the Yahoo group, they seem like a poor excuse for what fruit you think they might be, although the Butyrate is closer than the acetate. ( And to this point, I'm not so sure that I've used them in anything before... So it's good to get to know them better too)

    I've been doing a LOT of research for this accord, and gotten a lot of info/hints, and so if I can get some of these bases, and some Benzaldehyde, I think I'll be able to start on it. Pia Long, VK Narasimhan, and Mike Storer have all been helpful resources for this idea, as well as the Internet searches for GC-MS Headspace and regular GC-MS for Plum Species analyses. I have two formulas now, and a formula sketch, as well as six pages of notes accumulated, besides the scientific analyses.

    I actually am not at this point after a juicy Plum, (Although I should learn that through this process however), but more after the drier and as dark as possible plum profile. I want it to go with my Cigar Box frag, to at least try them together, and see if it works out well. But Plum as a whole is a useful tool to have completely by itself in other frags, so building a few of them is a good plan.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    For a dry plum note you could try Chironiax - it has a very strong dense smell of prunes with an animalic edge and would work well with leather notes.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  7. #7
    gido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    or find yourself some prunol. ;)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Yes, Prunol I knew about, but not the Chironiax, Sounds interesting, TGSC Calls it an Opoponax replacer...

    Thanks for your ideas...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Another thread here on this plum pursuit.

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/264...-Essential-Oil

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Oh Yes Mumsy, I had seen that, Thanks!
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Where can I get Chironiax? Perfumersapprentice search gives me nothing.

    Really appreciate your help!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    It's available from one of my UK suppliers by the Kg and I see Ventos stock it too. It's several hundred £ a Kg, but if you only want a little (and are in the UK) I can sell you some pre-diluted to 10% in ethanol (all my current stock is diluted so I can't sell any pure unless you want so much it will justify me buying some more in). If you'd like some pm or email me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Yes, Prunol I knew about, but not the Chironiax, Sounds interesting, TGSC Calls it an Opoponax replacer...

    Thanks for your ideas...
    Just on that, I wouldn't have described it as like opopanax particularly, though there is certainly a resinous, balsamic quality to it, there is none of the sweet, toffee / caramel quality I associate with opopanax in chironiax. It's very strong too.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Hey Paul, I just had a thought, what about an absolute of plum wine? Use a bottle of Japanese plum wine and if you can find a rotovap to use (your chemist friend?) or even at home the same way you made your tea absolute. Might be worth a try.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Ok I'm going to put in 2 cents: What about Datilat? I think it smells wonderfully prune-raisin like. It's maybe a bit plasticky at 100%, but diluted I think it could work. I got some from perfumersapprentice, who also now stock Pyroprunat, which I also like, although it seems rather faint to me. But nice in a light plum with a touch of peach way.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Mark and Ed, Good Ideas... I have the Datilat... I've been assembling my notes, and now also have a nice set of samples coming from Vigon of many of these materials to work out this accord.

    On the note of the Plum Wine, (Thank you Mark), I just received this saleman's sample set of extractions:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-HARD-CASES...vip=true&rt=nc

    They seem to be flavor samples, and water based, but I was certainly interested to find a Plum in there.
    It looks like this Co. is not in business anymore, and may be now Omega Ingredients UK. But maybe the samples of products could translate, and at least the Managing Director of both company's is the same chap.

    I've put out some requests for contact and we'll see what comes back.

    Thanks Mark, I have a bottle of Japanese Plum Wine in the Fridge, I'll look at it...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    The green note of plum can be given by (Z)-3-hexenol and (E)-2-hexenol, (E)-2-hexenal.

    4-Decanolide is used for heavy/lactonic character.

    Floral note is from linaloo, P.E.Alcohol and Benzyl Acetate. However spicy touch can be given by cinnamldehyde and eugenol, methyl cinnamate and touches of benzaldehyde.

    Fruit/Fatty note of plum is from (Z)-3-hexenyl-2-methyl butyrate and ethyl nonanoate.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    That ebay find looks most interesting... wow.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Vicky 2005, You are a new friend here, YES?

    Your information seems to come from experience, and I am most appreciative.
    It also comes from a different direction of composition than I was working from as well.
    Is the theme of your Plum note version more fruity/juicy, than say dry?
    It seems like it might be going towards the moist, and maybe useful also for functional fragrances too...?

    Mumsy, I've been in contact with the Owner of Omega Ingredients UK, who claims those cases from his company, BNPL. He sold the Company in 2000, and then the new owners promptly ruined the company, he says.

    He also says that Omega has been continuing to improve the technology used for these materials that I bought, so I am interested in seeing what they do now. He also said that these samples are water based, and have no preservatives, and cautioned me to not ingest or place on my skin, because of being waterborne, and old, and who knows what might have grown in the bottles, nor how they were stored... etc.... But it was an interesting purchase of his samples, nonetheless.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Water based materials (such as fruit extracts) are of no use to Perfumery at all. They will not be soluble in other perfumery materials, and as they contain no preservative go off very quickly.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Even if the ingredients are completely hopeless the carry cases are very nice for your own things.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    I hope you’re able to find the right ingredients. I am a bit new at this and I would have to suggest Prunol. As far as I know, it would work well.
    www.luvessentials.com

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Jamie10, I have been able to locate many of these, get samples, or find that I already have them, and discovered some new ones. But the ONE that evades me still is the Prunol.

    If you have some clue as to where I could get it, I would appreciate it... :-)

    Thanks,
    Paul
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  23. #23
    gido's Avatar
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    isn't prunella sort of the replacement for prunol?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    I can't tell if Prunella is the replacement, Plum/prune has been off my radar til now, otherwise, I'd probably have some Prunol AND Prunella to see.. And I haven't found much, if any literature about Prunol anyway.

    I did a bit more research, and found that -

    “Prunol in perfumery is actually quite a complex base that was first used in Rochas Femme. It's plum, but it's also got ionones (violets), eugenols (clove), etc.”

    I would bet that Prunol is discontinued due to reformulation because of the Eugenols...
    Last edited by pkiler; 19th April 2013 at 05:38 AM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Where can I get Mirabelle 2000D?

  26. #26

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by joanna wang View Post
    Where can I get Mirabelle 2000D?
    I believe the current version of this base is 2000F, it is produced by Firmenich so your local distributor for Firmenich synthetics should be able to get hold of it - itís on the stock list for mine, though I donít currently have any myself.
    ďBattle cries and champagne just in time for sunrise.
    ― David Bowie
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    Fine fragrances hand made in The Shire
    Quality perfume making ingredients
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume
    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog for more info about perfumes and perfumery.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    FWIW, I noticed blackberries have a strong plum note. To me plum and apricot are very different vibes. Plum has some acidity, but no bitterness or funkiness like apricot. plum is more a sweet, rich, dark berry smell to me, like a blackberry crossed with a touch of sharp citrus. Peach has some commonality, though...

    Also, Hermitage is supposed to get in some plum, aren't they? If they do, and it's usable in perfumes, I would be very interested in that product.

  28. #28
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    I'll probably be selling my Plum base on Perfumer Supply House.

    Same with Rum, Apricot, and Guava.

    Probably others too.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    In addition to Our own PK line, we make Custom Bespoke Perfumes, perfumes for Entrepreneurs needing scents for perfumes or products, Custom Wedding Perfumes, and even Special Event Perfumes.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    DAVANA of low dosage is a natural source of plum.

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Plum Note / Accord

    Quote Originally Posted by joanna wang View Post
    DAVANA of low dosage is a natural source of plum.
    And now TGSC says Prunella "can be natural". It's now available from Creating Perfume.




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