Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 10 of 10

Thread: Heliotropine

  1. #1

    Default Heliotropine

    What's the story with this one?

    Have been researching it, and noticed you can only buy a facsimile at Perfumer's Apprentice. I felt like they were implying you might not want to use the real stuff for some reason. Yet it seems it's been declared generally safe and can be used up to 8%, if I recall.

    Seems like quite a useful note. Have been looking to make a sort of chocolate cake/creamy-spice note, and thought it might make a nice accent, with it's naturalness, connection to pepper, and floral aspect. Thought it might be good as part of a creamy note, a sort of nature-identical version of methyl-laitone?

    I have not yet found a source that will accept reasonably small orders. Any insight? Is this not used often in perfumes these days? Does anyone use this stuff?

    Would appreciate any insight. Thanks in advance.

  2. #2
    gecko214's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Canton de Vaud, Switzerland
    Posts
    315

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    It's actually very nice stuff, I love it. The story is, it is a precursor to making an illegal drug, and thus controlled and not generally available for sale to non-professionals (of either sort, I suppose). There has been some discussion of this around the DIY forum if you search around.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    I belive http://hekserij.nl/ had some of it available in like 10 ml bottles like few months ago.
    EDIT: Oh sorry - that's Helional what hekserij had. My mistake.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    So I guess the correct and only insight to be had on this stuff is, "FORGET IT".

    This makes me sad, because it sounded ideal for what I was looking for. So many things are like this in perfuming, it seems. You would absolutely love to use it and you can't.

    (Located in the US, BTW)

    A search of the forum turned up no results for me. However I was able to find a discussion in the single note thread where Chris stated it was used in making illegal drugs. So apologies for not finding that earlier.


  5. #5
    Paul Kiler
    pkiler's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    2,843

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    Yes, Both Heliotropine and Benzaldehyde are illegal drug precursors, AFAIK, and are controlled.

    BUT they are available. Call and ASK your suppliers if they have it. They might sell to you, but not list it for sale.
    Don't assume that it is not sold, unless you conduct more research, and just work it out... I have purchased it from my USA suppliers... in small qty's.

    Trust is an issue at play here... Build trust with your suppliers by building a relationship with them.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  6. #6

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Yes, Both Heliotropine and Benzaldehyde are illegal drug precursors, AFAIK, and are controlled.

    BUT they are available. Call and ASK your suppliers if they have it. They might sell to you, but not list it for sale.
    Don't assume that it is not sold, unless you conduct more research, and just work it out... I have purchased it from my USA suppliers... in small qty's.

    Trust is an issue at play here... Build trust with your suppliers by building a relationship with them.
    This is a nice, insider's perspective. I know with Liberty they seem to make a big deal about wanting to do, if I recall, an FBI background check of you which can take a month or two. This was just for benzaldehyde, the almond stuff. Despite a clean criminal background, I never did go that route, and actually ended up using cheap almond from the grocery, at the end where the water wouldn't hurt. I wasn't too happy with the resulting almond note, but none of my customers noticed.

    PK, If you could give me a "subtle hint or clue that might at some point lead me to discover" the suppliers you refer to, I'd be much obliged.

    Do you think Perfumers Apprentice is worth calling for their opinions and insights into the matter, at least?

    Thanks again, all, for your help.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    I'll just add to this that in the UK (and I think throughout Europe) you need a licence to buy Heliotropine and in the UK the authorities charge a few hundred pounds for it . . . I guess that's on the basis anyone trying to make drugs with it would be broke - whoever heard of a rich drug-pusher after all?

    However veratraldehyde makes a pretty good olfactory substitute - I find you need to use a little more of it than you would heliotropine but it's quite easy to buy (at least in Europe - De Hekserij sell it). You'll need to add a little benzaldehyde or other material with an almond quality too to get really close to heliotropine. Benzyl alcohol that has been kept a bit too long will do if you can't get benzaldehyde . . .
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    Thanks, Chris, for the tip. That seems to take the note in a different, but equally interesting and apt direction. Less floral, presumably.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    Yes, a little less floral.

    Another option some suppliers will offer on request is to pre-blend some heliotropine with something else before selling it to you (the licensing requirement only applies to the pure material obviously, otherwise every perfume with it in would only be saleable to licensed buyers, which would rather defeat the point.
    ďA person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Heliotropine

    I wonder why no other company sells veratraldehyde? With heliotropine banned, veratraldehyde should be in high demand...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Loving perfume on the Internet since 2000