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  1. #1
    Paul Kiler
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    Default We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Dove's New self Image campaign to help women realize just how beautiful they actually are...

    This brought me to tears several times while I've been writing my blog post..., I listened to the audio, and watched these videos several times, and WOW!!!

    Quoting myself:
    "Dove has really helped Women see their True Beauty…
    Gil Zamora, a Forensic facial composite Artist was hired to blindly sketch women’s faces as they self described their faces. And the same woman would meet another person they had never met, and then that person described the same woman, and Gil Zamora would make a new sketch.

    The Results were astounding, and highlighted how Women see themselves, and the way they view their own flaws, VS - How other people see them."

    BRAVO DOVE!!!

    For me this is also about how perfume helps us all to realize our own true potential. Perfume is a part of our toolbox, to share our authentic self...

    you can read my blog and get the links here :

    http://pkperfumes.com/we-should-put-...out-ourselves/
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  2. #2
    Lifelong Sniffaholic
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I saw this time lapse video (Dove Evolution) last month for the first time, showing the photoshopping done to make a model look as she appears on the billboard:

    Edit: Sorry, embedding is disabled but you can click the link to see it on YouTube.
    The film won awards. You can read more about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution_(advertisement)

    Last edited by 30 Roses; 20th April 2013 at 12:04 AM.

  3. #3
    Paul Kiler
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Since I've been a Commercial photographer for 30 years, (However not involved in fashion or beauty, and therefore using these techniques on people...), I've had to face up to the fact that every time I make a photograph, that in some sense I am lying, because in some sense, it isn't the whole truth.

    Photographs are a single perspective instrument; choices are made to accentuate or suppress details, simply by the placement of the camera position; objects may be removed, moved around, tidied up, or added. Or I wait for just the right moment, or just the right cloud to float by to accent the image, or wait for the bee to land on the flower and improve the picture... It's been my job to make something that is less than optimal, look like a million bucks, to put the best foot forward, and the product's optimistic aspects, and downplay their weaknesses. This is considered good photography, and creative skills.

    But still, some falsity... And for a person who endeavors to exhibit a truth telling life, this has been a moment of pause.

    But for Fashion and Beauty Images, Photoshop simply made the job lots easier. Years ago, I went to a film processing lab that also did much of the beauty retouching for Los Angeles and Hollywood. They were really the Best on the West Coast. My neighbor next door also worked there working on transparency duplication. One time he showed me an original piece of film of a Max Factor's model's headshot, not so dissimilar to the headshot in the time lapse film. The model had a bruise on her cheek, pimples, uneven pores, all kinds of weaknesses, in the real shot. Then he showed me the retouched 8x10 transparency, where with the use of dyes, bleaches, and single hair brushes, the highly talented retoucher smoothed out every issue, adjusted facial features, all that needed to be done, was done by brush and liquids, on the actual film (blownup larger to work on).

    It would have been a large challenge to make her neck longer, but not impossible on film. Doing it in Photoshop just makes it a lot faster and cheaper, but the Fashion Industry has been doing this "fixing" for generations.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  4. #4
    Super Member VintagePoison's Avatar
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    30 roses, if you want to see photoshopping, check out this link: http://nienna1990.deviantart.com/gal...th=%2Fflash%2F

    Click in, and hover over the image to see the after.
    Looking for THE femme fatale scent. If you think there is something I should smell please PM me!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Lancome in the UK have been fined and had ads withdrawn due to extreme photo shopping.

    The actress Julia Roberts looked nothing like herself for one. There was one with another well known actress, people did not even know who she was in the print ad she had been photo shopped that much
    DONNA

  6. #6

    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I see the post going in 2 directions - one which i felt at the start on a womans beauty; the other photoshop effects...

    on the first --- I humbly disagree to this statement - Dove has really helped Women see their True Beauty - to me its just another marketing gimmick...
    Flaws are what make us human. I am not against make up, however, remember that even with the so called all natural stuff, all you get are some natural ingredients with lot of chemicals - similar to canned food. My mother / sister (& my GF who converted) - use home made yogurt with turmeric powder, cucumber and coconut oil as a fresh paste on their faces / other parts where the skin's exposed to sun - applied and wait for abt 30 mins b4 their shower - all 3 of them have probably the best skin I've felt. They use very little make up and they got exposed to the harsh south indian weather with 100+F being a norm. They age very well too...

    With the videos where the women describe themselves and another woman describes et al - i would be happy if a test like this is produced by Dove - a model with dove products seen in their natural state with no make up compared to the woman describing herself. If such a video were taken, almost 75% or more of the women in such a study will describe themselves as prettier then the model in question...

    Men (& women) prefer the realty compared to the cine effects produced by excessive make up and the companies paying $$$ for these ad campaigns.

    just my 2 cents of thought...

  7. #7

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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    This is a very interesting and multi-layered subject. I'm so glad you've started this thread. I have to run, but I'll be reading with interest.

  8. #8

    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Of course it's marketing, but it's done well. Being seen "doing something good" is very endearing. No need even to involve your product in that case, I suppose. Regardless, the commercial mentioned by the OP obviously hits home. My wife was very impressed with it and watched it on YouTube more than once.

    I find the discussion on cosmetics most interesting. My wife almost never wears make-up, and family and friends comment how young she looks. At social functions no one ever guesses she's married with children. On the other hand, once my younger sister started using cosmetics a few years ago, her skin just hasn't had its former glow.

    @donna225, I remember Kate Winslet was upset over some Photoshop "touch-ups" not too long ago. It seems like the public somewhat understand the beauty myth but also like to have the bubble popped sometimes. ?
    Anakin: What was that all about?
    Obi-Wan: Well, R2 has been...
    Anakin: No loose wire jokes.
    Obi-Wan: Did I say anything?
    Anakin: He's trying.
    Obi-Wan: I didn't say anything!

    -ROTS


  9. #9
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I'll start wearing 1 Million before I believe that Dove truly gives a fig about women's self-image issues (beyond how they can be exploited to sell more product). Here's why:

    The Dove brand is ownded by Unilever. Looking at Unilever's Wikipedia page, I see they also own:

    - Lynx / Axe. Probably associated with some of the most appallingly sexist adverts around.
    - Slim Fast. Coz if u iz fat u iz ugly.
    - Fair and Lovely. Skin lightening products sold in India, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Coz if u iz dark u iz ugly.

    Listen also to the descriptors used by women in the video when describing 'positive' aspects of appearance: they all conform to a very narrow definition of what beauty is. Similarly, the 'negative' descriptors conform to very defiinite ideas of what is unattractive.

    The advert, in my eyes, only reinforces these harmful definitions and concludes with the wonderfully affirming statement : 'Hey ! You actually conform to society's current idea of beauty more than you think'.

    I also believe there are serious methodological flaws in the way the 'study' was conducted: this would never in a million years pass muster as an actual scientific investigation. But enough said.

    [climbs down off soap box].

  10. #10
    Super Member VintagePoison's Avatar
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Quote Originally Posted by gandhajala View Post
    The Dove brand is ownded by Unilever. Looking at Unilever's Wikipedia page, I see they also own:

    - Lynx / Axe. Probably associated with some of the most appallingly sexist adverts around.
    - Slim Fast. Coz if u iz fat u iz ugly.
    - Fair and Lovely. Skin lightening products sold in India, Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Coz if u iz dark u iz ugly.
    Hahahah!!!! This had me laughing, because it is all true.

    I never liked Dove's viral video even when it first came out. It seemed really insincere and tried really hard to be on the 'good' side of the consumers and their brother 'Axe' is going around playing on men's insecurity by portraying women as dimwitted sex-crazed animals.
    Looking for THE femme fatale scent. If you think there is something I should smell please PM me!

  11. #11

    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    If any advert showed true body image in the reality....

    Ex baby podding belly wrinkles, caesar overhangs, the excess flubber, milk mountains going rapidly southwards, grey hairs overtaking the coloured ones, elasticity having a job keeping up with itself and giving up, the ravages of the wild times long forgotten showing on the face, bags under the eyes capable of being taken shopping... etc etc

    C'mon... would you buy that cream?

    You'd have to be one hell of a photographer to make that look nice. I'm all for a bit of kind retouching except when they chop the arms off or half a tum.

  12. #12
    Super Member VintagePoison's Avatar
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    If any advert showed true body image in the reality....

    Ex baby podding belly wrinkles, caesar overhangs, the excess flubber, milk mountains going rapidly southwards, grey hairs overtaking the coloured ones, elasticity having a job keeping up with itself and giving up, the ravages of the wild times long forgotten showing on the face, bags under the eyes capable of being taken shopping... etc etc

    C'mon... would you buy that cream?

    You'd have to be one hell of a photographer to make that look nice. I'm all for a bit of kind retouching except when they chop the arms off or half a tum.
    http://theshapeofamother.com/ and http://www.mybodygallery.com/ what what!
    Looking for THE femme fatale scent. If you think there is something I should smell please PM me!

  13. #13
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Interesting thread - thank you Paul.

    Is the obsession with 'cosmetic procedures' - Botox, fillers, implants, etc., worldwide now?
    It's reached worrying proportions here.

    Sadly, this seems to reflect the lengths to which an increasing number of gullible people are prepared to go in order to try to attain the peddled, photoshopped conformity.

    Personally, I don't mind my greying hair - it's still shiny & healthy & it goes with my altered skin tone - but, yes, I do take care of it in a vague, non-obsessive sort of way and it makes me feel better than if I didn't.

    Interesting links - thx VP
    Last edited by lpp; 22nd April 2013 at 05:26 PM.

  14. #14

    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I am very glad I'm still here long enough to have greying hair and some flab... it's extremely expensive stuff! but I don't necessarily want to look at them in a photo.

    Don't you think that men like Paul Newman look much better for some wrinkles?

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Pau...24&tx=81&ty=81

    http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=Pau...5&tx=101&ty=87

  15. #15

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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Don't you think that men like Paul Newman look much better for some wrinkles?
    Some people look good in photos no matter what, and he was one of them. Some people look good in photos while in real life you wouldn't pick them out of a crowd of three. Some people who are very attractive in real life are not photogenic at all. And some people have great personal charisma and also photograph well. I realize this is not the subject at hand, but just saying. Anyway, I'm for the "real thing" warts and all. But when I go to a play or other theater experience I don't want to sit too close. I like to see the only the magic, not the warts and sweat and grimaces of pain turned into smiles. I'm not too worried that I don't look a certain way because (it's taken me half a lifetime to get his) because even the models and actors portraying the ideal don't really look like that. BUt yes, the public want the magic, not the warts they can all too easily view by sitting on a bench at a local mall and watching the world go by. Dr. G., I get your point totally about those women's ideal of beauty being so limited. That struck me, too, while watching. Feminine beauty must not be too strong (must not have a big chin or jaw, etc.). If people paid less attention to the (advertising) media we would not harbor such negative body/face self images. We need to free ourselves. Instead, we have become more susceptible to corporate manipulation than ever through our media addiction. It's a difficult catch 22
    Last edited by lilybelle; 21st April 2013 at 01:44 PM.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Agree, personally just worry more about the effects on the young ones than anything.

  17. #17
    Ken_Russell's Avatar
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I wonder whether there are similar- especially, but not limited to, grooming, cosmetics, care, even fragrance product- commercials targeted at men and their (self-) perceived image.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    gandhajala said:

    Listen also to the descriptors used by women in the video when describing 'positive' aspects of appearance: they all conform to a very narrow definition of what beauty is. Similarly, the 'negative' descriptors conform to very definite ideas of what is unattractive.

    The advert, in my eyes, only reinforces these harmful definitions and concludes with the wonderfully affirming statement : 'Hey ! You actually conform to society's current idea of beauty more than you think'
    .

    Nothing better to add- only I was reading the intro of a book by Moshe Feldenkrais (perhaps you know his rehabilitation method) Awareness through movement and he was underlying how education aims to make us all very similar in every respect, in order to fit in society...

    And it just echoed Lilybelle's words:

    We need to free ourselves. Instead, we have become more susceptible to corporate manipulation than ever through our media addiction

    And, in conclusion, apart from this Dove campaign, I agree with last Pkiler statement:

    For me this is also about how perfume helps us all to realize our own true potential. Perfume is a part of our toolbox, to share our authentic self...

    provided we could be able to free ourselves a bit from social imposition (see the never ending threads on fragrance gender and so on...).
    "Your fragrance with a fume of iodine" L. Cohen

  19. #19
    Frag Bomb Squadron XVII
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    High resolution photography and giant TV screens in high definition are partly to blame for this obsession with perfect-looking skin. The hard truth is nobody wants to see 'real' beauty ( blown up open pores, etc) on gigantic billboards. Just take beauty product ads for what they are - advertisement - with all the attendant bells and whistles. If you let yourself be taken for a ride...you should at least try and enjoy the ride. But a regular dose of reality check is always recommended.

  20. #20

    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    We shouldn't think it's only women being under the pressure of a beauty ideal. Men too, are suffering from uncertainty regarding their physical appearance.
    And here as well it's a forensic artist who interacts in order to show the participants their true beauty.


  21. #21
    Rssel's Avatar
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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    I don't think these images are a big problem but rather people who judge themselves and most likely others by looks only.
    After all most of us spend most of our time surrounded by ugly people (just kidding) not photoshopped supermodels, so it should be quite clear to most what people look like?

  22. #22
    A Site For Sore Eyes

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    Default Re: We should put more energy to the things we like about ourselves

    Zelig lives...
    Deep in the dark your kiss will thrill me
    Like days of old. Lighting the spark of love that fills me
    with dreams untold..--Twilight Time

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