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  1. #1

    Default Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I just wanted to share a bad experience I had when I was travelling in China, in 2009. I stayed there for 2 months, working on the international MBA program of my school. I was merely a teaching assistant at that time.

    On one of our days off, I decided to go to one of the big shopping centers/malls that are opening everywhere in Beijing. I took a taxi with the english teacher who travelled with our group. He helped students adjust faster to the new language. This guy, like myself, was gay, however he was much older than me and anyone could tell he was gay from his body language, voice etc. In my case, it is more difficult to detect since I don´t have some of the traits usually associated with being gay.

    We both shared a taxi to save some money. I was wearing a very large amount of Eau Sauvage, which I had sprayed all over my neck and chest using a handy 1oz atomizer. Probably more than 6 sprays and less than 10 sprays.

    The taxi driver was courteous to us when we were entering the taxi, but once we got inside, began to talk, and when Eau Sauvage started to fill the atmosphere of the taxi, he became angry. I did notice something was wrong, but it was only when the guy stopped the taxi and got out, that I became worried. He went to speak with a police officer (on a motorcycle) on the street, and was shouting in chinese and looking straight at us, very angry.

    I think he wanted to scare us, but I was not scared one bit. What could he accuse us of? I just ignored all that he was doing and after his outburst he returned to the car, without being accompanied by the police officer. He resumed the trip to the mall. We paid him and went out, scott free.

    So, the lesson that I learned from this experience is that some cultures are still adapting to the new reality concerning sexual freedoms, and the use of fragrances by men.

    Disclaimer: I am merely telling you a personal experience that I had. I don´t know if all taxi drivers in China would react in the same horrible way. I am merely telling what happened to me. Please don´t interpret what I said as a declaration that every chinese person is prejudiced against perfumes and against gays. Also, please do not assume that I am telling that there are a fixed set of rules which enable the detection of sexual preferences.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Really it's a mystery why the taxi driver acted that way.
    Last edited by sjg3839; 23rd April 2013 at 03:59 PM.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by sjg3839 View Post
    Really it's a mystery why the taxi driver acted that way.
    His conversation with the police most likely had nothing to do with your perfume.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    His conversation with the police most likely had nothing to do with your perfume.
    Homosexual sodomy was banned in the People's Republic of China from at least the twentieth century, until it was legalized in 1997. It was only in 2001 that homosexuality was removed from the official list of mental illnesses in China.


    If you had seen the way he looked at us, you would have understood.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    Homosexual sodomy was banned in the People's Republic of China from at least the twentieth century, until it was legalized in 1997. It was only in 2001 that homosexuality was removed from the official list of mental illnesses in China.

    If you had seen the way he looked at us, you would have understood.
    This is very sad. I many periods of history, people have been persecuted and tolerated. Thank you for the note.
    "No sweet perfume ever tortured me more than this." Desert Rose by Sting and Cheb Mami, Album 1999.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    And the worst thing is that the guy probably made the wrong association between "wearing perfume" and "being gay".

  7. #7
    hednic's Avatar
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    His conversation with the police most likely had nothing to do with your perfume.
    Agree.

  8. #8
    CologneFan85
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Well most people are bothered by Fragrances. Its a love hate thing for the general public.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by CologneFan85 View Post
    Well most people are bothered by Fragrances. Its a love hate thing for the general public.

    But is it reason enough to call the police?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    But is it reason enough to call the police?
    How good is your Chinese?
    How good is your hearing?

    It's safe to assume you hate being prejudged and yet here you are judging the actions and motives of the cab driver.

    I've been to China and members of our group were gay. They were treated exceptionally well. We all were, except for an elderly couple from Florida who were rude rude rude.

    How badly did you stink up the cab? Surely you know enough about Chinese culture to know that wasn't appreciated. I think it's important to be respectful when visiting other countries. I'm not defending China's view on homosexuality. They're 10000% on the wrong side of history and morality with that - but this isn't a gay rights forum. It's a perfume forum.

    The cab driver probably didn't assume you were gay. He probably assumed you were rude for wearing that much perfume in his cab... unless you were going out of your way to make sure your sexuality was an issue, in which case, yeah he knew. Years ago, I dated a woman who was in her late 20s but still felt the need to rebel against her parents. Whenever her parents were around, she couldn't keep her hands off of me. They knew we were dating, but it was very important for her to make sex an issue. She needed them to know that we were having sex. It felt so childish to me. And disrespectful.

    I could be wrong, but I'm going to assume you do the same thing. I assume this because your entire identity on this forum seems to be wrapped up in discussing sexuality rather than discussing perfume. I'm a fierce gay rights advocate (not to mention an advocate for equality, period. That really matters to me). But this is a place to talk about perfume. Let's talk about perfume.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  11. #11

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    How good is your Chinese?
    How good is your hearing?

    It's safe to assume you hate being prejudged and yet here you are judging the actions and motives of the cab driver.

    I've been to China and members of our group were gay. They were treated exceptionally well. We all were, except for an elderly couple from Florida who were rude rude rude.

    How badly did you stink up the cab? Surely you know enough about Chinese culture to know that wasn't appreciated. I think it's important to be respectful when visiting other countries. I'm not defending China's view on homosexuality. They're 10000% on the wrong side of history and morality with that - but this isn't a gay rights forum. It's a perfume forum.

    The cab driver probably didn't assume you were gay. He probably assumed you were rude for wearing that much perfume in his cab... unless you were going out of your way to make sure your sexuality was an issue, in which case, yeah he knew. Years ago, I dated a woman who was in her late 20s but still felt the need to rebel against her parents. Whenever her parents were around, she couldn't keep her hands off of me. They knew we were dating, but it was very important for her to make sex an issue. She needed them to know that we were having sex. It felt so childish to me. And disrespectful.

    I could be wrong, but I'm going to assume you do the same thing. I assume this because your entire identity on this forum seems to be wrapped up in discussing sexuality rather than discussing perfume. I'm a fierce gay rights advocate (not to mention an advocate for equality, period. That really matters to me). But this is a place to talk about perfume. Let's talk about perfume.
    Thank you - saved me a lot of typing.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Perfumophobia is everywhere. Even in the least expected places.

    I wish I had taken a photo of the guy´s face as he looked at us. Then I would have undeniable proof that he hated us for whatever reason. Unfortunately, you will have to be satisfied with my word.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please read this excerpt from an interview by the Wharton School from Pennsylvania with Michael Ziegler of Asia Development Enterprise:

    http://www.knowledgeatwharton.com.cn...1&languageid=1


    China Knowledge@Wharton: Who are your main customers?

    Ziegler: Our target demographic is women between 18 and 35. It's interesting that we are starting to catch younger customers. In the U.S., some brands are targeting girls 12 and 13 for their perfume business. In China, if you look at a girl of 18, she is much more receptive than a woman of 35, because she doesn’t have a preconceived concept that it's not a good thing. It's just a new thing to her. Women, as a rule, are much more open minded than men in China. There is no way, I mean, there is absolutely no way to sell fragrance to a man over the age of 40 in China. Impossible! They think it's too feminine or whatever. Absolutely not.
    Last edited by DanielPlainview; 23rd April 2013 at 08:49 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    DanielPlainview, no one is disputing what took place. The point is to talk about fragrances. If you are not sure why the cab driver acted that way, this thread is based on assumption. No disrespect to you or your sexual preference.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I've spent time in Chinese cities.
    I've traveled with a man while there.
    I wore perfume there.
    I've been in plenty of Chinese cabs.
    I experienced no discrimination of any sort.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to talk about sexuality in China, but basenotes is not the place.

    By the way... I could tell you amazing things about a cab ride through the Hutong, but I won't. Want to know why? ...because this is basenotes. We're here to talk about perfume.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  15. #15

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I am talking about Chinese Men's reaction to perfume. They believe it is feminine or gay. And they see this as a negative thing. That is the point. And it is still about perfumes.

  16. #16
    CologneFan85
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    But is it reason enough to call the police?
    I didnt say it was.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    I've spent time in Chinese cities.
    I've traveled with a man while there.
    I wore perfume there.
    I've been in plenty of Chinese cabs.
    I experienced no discrimination of any sort.

    There's nothing wrong with wanting to talk about sexuality in China, but basenotes is not the place.

    By the way... I could tell you amazing things about a cab ride through the Hutong, but I won't. Want to know why? ...because this is basenotes. We're here to talk about perfume.
    The topic of the thread was fragrances in China and how they're perceived, until you changed the topic to sexuality in China. I think DanielPlainview has every right to discuss how fragrances are perceived in other cultures on here.

    If your story about the cab ride through Hutong isn't about fragrances, you're right, it's not for Basenotes.

    I find it quite interesting that he was so irate about it. I know the Chinese are very conservative, but Beijing is a rapidly growing city with a myriad of tourists. You'd expect a taxi driver to be understanding that he will encounter different cultures throughout his day, otherwise he would be angry all day every day. Not everyone will tone themselves down when travelling to a more conservative country such as China.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by HAllen View Post
    The topic of the thread was fragrances in China and how they're perceived, until you changed the topic to sexuality in China.
    Read the thread from the beginning and you'll find this as the 4th post down.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    Homosexual sodomy was banned in the People's Republic of China from at least the twentieth century, until it was legalized in 1997. It was only in 2001 that homosexuality was removed from the official list of mental illnesses in China.


    If you had seen the way he looked at us, you would have understood.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  19. #19

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    You should have asked him if everything is alright (whilst spritzing some more Eau Sauvage on you and your friend).

  20. #20

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rüssel View Post
    You should have asked him if everything is alright (whilst spritzing some more Eau Sauvage on you and your friend).

    LOL. Yes I should.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    Read the thread from the beginning and you'll find this as the 4th post down.
    I did.

    I think it gives background information as to maybe why the taxi driver had an issue with the heavy use of perfume. From then on the thread continued back to being about fragrances and how they may have been perceived by the taxi driver.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    By the way, I tried to find a store that sold local, national, chinese perfumes, but couldn't find any. All that I found was the regular department store at the mall, which sold European and American perfumes.

    I don't know if China has a tradition of developing their own perfumes, but if the tradition existed once, it seems to be gone now.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    As has been pointed out, this is a community brought together by its mutual interest in perfume. As a gay woman I find the issue of cultural attitudes to homosexuality fascinating, but rather out of place in MFD. Can I remind people that posting to a thread for any reason, to argue, agree, condemn, bumps the thread and keeps it fresh. If this thread isn't of interest please do not post to express that view, please find or start a thread that does interest. If this thread is of interest, please keep the discussion about cultural attitudes to perfume and men/women wearing perfume, rather than cultural attitudes to gay men, the discussion of which I can happily recommend many forums for and books on the subject of. Thank you.

    D


  24. #24

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I'm not a fan of Eau Savage either.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    how do you know he was complaining about you? this assumption is absurd.

    maybe he was complaining about something else on the road.

    you're very self centered & love drama

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    I could be wrong, but I'm going to assume you do the same thing. I assume this because your entire identity on this forum seems to be wrapped up in discussing sexuality rather than discussing perfume. I'm a fierce gay rights advocate (not to mention an advocate for equality, period. That really matters to me). But this is a place to talk about perfume. Let's talk about perfume.
    completely agree with the above

    for swap/sale:





  26. #26

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Should have worn Aventus.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Those damn Chinese cab drivers *shakes fist in the air*
    Seeking: Bottles/decants : of Feeling Man, Gucci pour Homme, Essence of John Galliano, Nicole Miller (vintage), Opium pour Homme, Oxford & Cambridge...etc.

    Seeking decant/sample of Jil Sander Feeling Man, Cacharel Nemo, Bijan for Men EDC, Lanvin for Men, Giorgio VIP, Il Lancetti and other old school frags ....etc. I have samples to swap.

    More HERE
    Please PM me !

  28. #28

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I just can't believe the OP thinks it's in any way appropriate to prejudge the people of an entire nation based on one experience in a cab where he admits he was wearing, and I quote:

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    a very large amount of Eau Sauvage
    The cab driver was courteous, until...

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    The taxi driver was courteous to us when we were entering the taxi, but once we got inside, began to talk, and when Eau Sauvage started to fill the atmosphere of the taxi, he became angry.
    The OP stank up a cab to the point where the driver got out. And what's the lesson he learned from this?

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    So, the lesson that I learned from this experience is that some cultures are still adapting to the new reality concerning sexual freedoms, and the use of fragrances by men.
    #FACEPALM
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  29. #29

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I am talking about Chinese Men's reaction to perfume. They believe it is feminine or gay.
    All Chinese men?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    All Chinese men?
    The older ones, like the taxi driver. Please read this exherpt from an interview by the Wharton Business School from Pennsylvania with Michael Ziegler of Asia Development Enterprise:

    http://www.knowledgeatwharton.com.cn...1&languageid=1


    China Knowledge@Wharton: Who are your main customers?

    Ziegler: Our target demographic is women between 18 and 35. It's interesting that we are starting to catch younger customers. In the U.S., some brands are targeting girls 12 and 13 for their perfume business. In China, if you look at a girl of 18, she is much more receptive than a woman of 35, because she doesn’t have a preconceived concept that it's not a good thing. It's just a new thing to her. Women, as a rule, are much more open minded than men in China. There is no way, I mean, there is absolutely no way to sell fragrance to a man over the age of 40 in China. Impossible! They think it's too feminine or whatever. Absolutely not.


    ----------------------------------------------------
    Disclaimer: I am merely telling you a personal experience that I had. I don´t know if all taxi drivers in China would react in the same horrible way. I am merely telling what happened to me. Please don´t interpret what I said as a declaration that every chinese person is prejudiced against perfumes and against gays. Also, please do not assume that I am telling that there are a fixed set of rules which enable the detection of sexual preferences.
    Last edited by DanielPlainview; 23rd April 2013 at 08:24 PM.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Wow.

  32. #32
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Sadly, this thread is another in an increasingly long line of stupid threads started by the OP. Please. Stop.

    Yes, yes, it's incumbent upon the rest of us to ignore it, but the threads are like watching a car crash - utterly awful, but you just can't keep yourself from watching...

  33. #33

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    The fumes in this thread a bit much.

    I thought it was an interesting story Daniel.

    But I do have a legit question, have you been banned under a different username?

    No shade.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I will reiterate: please do not post to this thread to say "this thread is pointless". Please find a thread that is interesting. The atmosphere here should be more that of a coffee bar than an office, and we should not be a virtual HR dept. Please try to stick to the rule of thumb that a) this a forum for discussing male fragrance b) it is entirely acceptable to attack a post, never a poster and c) if you have nothing to contribute to this particular conversation then please don't. If that genuinely is the consensus of the many then it will fall rapidly, particularly in this forum and we can read and discuss on the subject we all love. Which last time I looked wasn't the attitude of a particular cab driver in China. Please help to stop this forum becoming a series of locked threads because people cannot exercise restraint, decorum and respect for the subject that brought us here.

    D


  35. #35

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    how do you know he was complaining about you? this assumption is absurd.

    maybe he was complaining about something else on the road.

    Because of the way he kept looking back at us and pointing at us while he talked to the policeman, and because of the way he looked at us when he returned. He looked at us with rage, furious anger, hatred. I know how to recognize these signs. He was barely able to control himself.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by kissandmakeup View Post
    I will reiterate: please do not post to this thread to say "this thread is pointless". Please find a thread that is interesting. The atmosphere here should be more that of a coffee bar than an office, and we should not be a virtual HR dept. Please try to stick to the rule of thumb that a) this a forum for discussing male fragrance b) it is entirely acceptable to attack a post, never a poster and c) if you have nothing to contribute to this particular conversation then please don't. If that genuinely is the consensus of the many then it will fall rapidly, particularly in this forum and we can read and discuss on the subject we all love. Which last time I looked wasn't the attitude of a particular cab driver in China. Please help to stop this forum becoming a series of locked threads because people cannot exercise restraint, decorum and respect for the subject that brought us here.

    D

    I don't think anyone's really attacking the poster in this thread--they're attacking the premise of his post--or the title of it--which is somewhat misleading. And from reading through the thread, it's been a very civil discussion, and occasionally interesting. Sometimes a thread that begins a certain way will move in a different direction--but it's not necessarily harmful.

    This post contains several interesting ideas: a) China's (albeit 'perceived') attitude toward male fragrance b) fragrance as a cue toward sexuality, and related misconceptions c) social interactions and certain reactions we attribute toward wearing fragrances d) the potential error in judgment fragrance related self-consciousness may cause and finally e) the boundaries of this forum.

    This post is interesting. It has a lot of views. And everything's not peace and love and agreement all hours of the day, and doesn't always fit into a nice little box, and doesn't necessarily need to . There are grown mature men on this forum, and I think it's safe to expect that for the most part we will act as such.

    I respectfully disagree with your opinion regarding this thread.

  37. #37
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by kissandmakeup View Post
    I will reiterate: please do not post to this thread to say "this thread is pointless". Please find a thread that is interesting. The atmosphere here should be more that of a coffee bar than an office, and we should not be a virtual HR dept. Please try to stick to the rule of thumb that a) this a forum for discussing male fragrance b) it is entirely acceptable to attack a post, never a poster and c) if you have nothing to contribute to this particular conversation then please don't. If that genuinely is the consensus of the many then it will fall rapidly, particularly in this forum and we can read and discuss on the subject we all love. Which last time I looked wasn't the attitude of a particular cab driver in China. Please help to stop this forum becoming a series of locked threads because people cannot exercise restraint, decorum and respect for the subject that brought us here.

    D
    It's just two different schools of thought, really. One says to ignore the problem and trust it will recede into the background, languishing from a lack of attention. Another says to confront the problem and point out its error. Yours is a completely defensible position - rather similar to letting the market sort out which products survive - but sometimes one feels compelled speak up, particularly when reason has been tossed in the gutter and trod upon, such as with the OP.
    Last edited by bleedredandblue; 23rd April 2013 at 09:18 PM.

  38. #38
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Because of the way you were treated I am now going to boycott all mainland Chinese cabdrivers.

    Maybe save stories like this for your therapist.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by heperd View Post
    Because of the way you were treated I am now going to boycott all mainland Chinese cabdrivers.

    Maybe save stories like this for your therapist.

    I thought I was among friends here.

  40. #40
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I thought I was among friends here.
    You are amongst friends here.

  41. #41

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by senore01 View Post
    You are amongst friends here.

    Thanks.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I thought I was among friends here.
    You are man, and sometimes your friends can be sarcastic assholes.

    Your cabbie may well have been a small-minded bigot who figured out you were gay because you were covered in French perfume. Sorry you had an experience where someone openly showed their hatred right to your face. Good thing the cop couldnt do anything or didnt care. He was probably like "WTF do you want me to do about it?" I imagine that cabbie is miserable about multiple things that he has no control over.
    Be glad you were not in another part of the world were you may have gone straight to jail.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It seems that on this forum you are expected to speak in broad generalities. When you relate a very specific, personal story and how it made you fell then you are berated.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by senore01 View Post
    You are amongst friends here.
    +1. Discussing cultural attitudes about perfume on here can be dicey since it's an international group, as is discussing gender and sexual orientation in relation to fragrance, but that doesn't mean such discussions aren't worth having as long as we all remain civil and open-minded.

  44. #44
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I thought I was among friends here.
    You are, bro. Don't worry.
    ----- People laugh at me because I'm different.... I laugh at them because they're all the same -----

  45. #45

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    among friends but just like I do with real life friends I will call them out when they're being drama queens!
    I think youre perception of the events says more about you than what really happen OP. Not a knock, but you saw it based on your own insecurities.

  46. #46

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by L'Homme Blanc Individuel View Post
    How good is your Chinese?
    How good is your hearing?

    It's safe to assume you hate being prejudged and yet here you are judging the actions and motives of the cab driver.

    I've been to China and members of our group were gay. They were treated exceptionally well. We all were, except for an elderly couple from Florida who were rude rude rude.

    How badly did you stink up the cab? Surely you know enough about Chinese culture to know that wasn't appreciated. I think it's important to be respectful when visiting other countries. I'm not defending China's view on homosexuality. They're 10000% on the wrong side of history and morality with that - but this isn't a gay rights forum. It's a perfume forum.

    The cab driver probably didn't assume you were gay. He probably assumed you were rude for wearing that much perfume in his cab... unless you were going out of your way to make sure your sexuality was an issue, in which case, yeah he knew. Years ago, I dated a woman who was in her late 20s but still felt the need to rebel against her parents. Whenever her parents were around, she couldn't keep her hands off of me. They knew we were dating, but it was very important for her to make sex an issue. She needed them to know that we were having sex. It felt so childish to me. And disrespectful.

    I could be wrong, but I'm going to assume you do the same thing. I assume this because your entire identity on this forum seems to be wrapped up in discussing sexuality rather than discussing perfume. I'm a fierce gay rights advocate (not to mention an advocate for equality, period. That really matters to me). But this is a place to talk about perfume. Let's talk about perfume.
    Here, I agree with L'Homme Blanc Individuel. Unless the OP can understand Chinese (vis talking to the taxi driver or understanding the conversation between the taxi driver and the policeman), we cannot know for sure what the taxi driver's problem is.

    It may have been the OP's sexuality, or the use of the perfume. I feel that the OP's account cannot full draw a picture for us to understand without jumping to conclusions.


    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    Perfumophobia is everywhere. Even in the least expected places.

    I wish I had taken a photo of the guy´s face as he looked at us. Then I would have undeniable proof that he hated us for whatever reason. Unfortunately, you will have to be satisfied with my word.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Please read this excerpt from an interview by the Wharton School from Pennsylvania with Michael Ziegler of Asia Development Enterprise:

    http://www.knowledgeatwharton.com.cn...1&languageid=1


    China Knowledge@Wharton: Who are your main customers?

    Ziegler: Our target demographic is women between 18 and 35. It's interesting that we are starting to catch younger customers. In the U.S., some brands are targeting girls 12 and 13 for their perfume business. In China, if you look at a girl of 18, she is much more receptive than a woman of 35, because she doesn’t have a preconceived concept that it's not a good thing. It's just a new thing to her. Women, as a rule, are much more open minded than men in China. There is no way, I mean, there is absolutely no way to sell fragrance to a man over the age of 40 in China. Impossible! They think it's too feminine or whatever. Absolutely not.
    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    I am talking about Chinese Men's reaction to perfume. They believe it is feminine or gay. And they see this as a negative thing. That is the point. And it is still about perfumes.
    So, is it perfumophobia or homophobia?

    The Wharton article is interesting, but I feel you cherry-picked that bit about men over the age of 40 (OK, but over 45, as this article appears to be written around 2006 or 2007) and extrapolated it to mean that all men over the age of 40 would think that men who wear perfume are feminine and thus gay. Ziegler's point is that he cannot sell perfume easily to men over 40; he does not really know the exact reason why. I think it is too much to link Zieglar's point on marketing to homophobia.

    There is a case of using too much perfume, even in countries/cultures that accepts men's use of perfume as normal (err, not gay).

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielPlainview View Post
    By the way, I tried to find a store that sold local, national, chinese perfumes, but couldn't find any. All that I found was the regular department store at the mall, which sold European and American perfumes.

    I don't know if China has a tradition of developing their own perfumes, but if the tradition existed once, it seems to be gone now.
    China never really did have a tradition of using fine fragrances as we know them (unlike the Europeans, Arabs, Indians), and with communism and the cultural revolution, had little access to the perfume houses unlike the rest of the world. Consider that modern perfumery is just about 150 years old. The Chinese practice is more with scented satchets, floral waters, and incense. I think floral waters come closest to modern perfumes.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    This story could happen anywhere besides China.
    Your topic should be "what's wrong with this driver?"

  48. #48

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    His conversation with the police most likely had nothing to do with your perfume.
    Completely agree.
    My all time favorite:

    Dior Fahrenheit

  49. #49

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I'm guessing it was the 7-9 fresh sprays of perfume more so than his gaydar going off.

  50. #50

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Switch245 View Post
    I'm guessing it was the 7-9 fresh sprays of perfume more so than his gaydar going off.
    Exactly.

    Assuming the issue was homophobia tells us a lot more about the OP than it tells us about the cabbie, as does how the details of the story changed deeper into the thread, where story changed from the driver being angry to him being full of rage, furious anger and hatred which he could barely control. That seems like the sort of detail that would have been mentioned the first time, if true.

    Making assumptions about an entire culture based on one cab driver is bordering on being racist.
    "Follow your nose. It always knows." -- Toucan Sam

  51. #51

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Typical Daniel Plainview, always stirring the pot. If the cab driver had such a big problem with your perfume, or the fact that you're gay, then why didn't he ask you to get out of his cab? It seems to me like your own insecurities have you jumping to conclusions.

  52. #52

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by 61824 View Post
    Should have worn Aventus.
    That's funny. Let's start another Aventus thread. This will solve the problem.

  53. #53

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    wow even frequent basenotes community members can throw some mean insults... why is this allowed?

  54. #54

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atticushero View Post
    wow even frequent basenotes community members can throw some mean insults... why is this allowed?
    They are not. Please stick to deconstruction and discussion of the post, not the OP.


  55. #55

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atticushero View Post
    wow even frequent basenotes community members can throw some mean insults... why is this allowed?

    Don´t worry. It bothers me but I can take it. It is better than having the thread closed. It is a good diagnosis of what the community is made of.

  56. #56
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    There are clues in how you recant the order of events that help me conclude, with utmost certainty, that the cabbie was complaining about how you were so lucky to have Eau Savage when he's been looking for it, with no luck, on fragrancenet.

  57. #57
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    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    I think I know of that cabbie. If it is he, I hear he is a shill for Swiffer products.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  58. #58

    Default Re: Bad Experience in China: Eau Sauvage attracted The Police.

    Quote Originally Posted by juanderer View Post
    There are clues in how you recant the order of events that help me conclude, with utmost certainty, that the cabbie was complaining about how you were so lucky to have Eau Savage when he's been looking for it, with no luck, on fragrancenet.
    How much ever the OP's post / person might be controversial / disliked, i love the fact that his posts prob bring out the best humor laced responses from fellow BN - i had made a mental note last time to never get into a DanielPlainView post again, but these types of responses are such a good laugh that i wouldnt want to miss it...

    maybe i'll try this the next time - wait for 2-3 days b4 reading the post from bottom to top & have a good laugh...

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