Code of Conduct
Results 1 to 39 of 39
  1. #1

    Default Incense Accord Essentials List

    There are a number of threads that skirt this topic in various ways -- many of which are fascinating -- and I'm hoping that I didn't overlook one that answers this question directly.

    If someone was just starting out with perfume blending, more as a hobby / experiment, and that person was enamored with the kinds of incense scents that CdG and others do, what might might be a good "starter kit" of essentials for creating incense accords? Perhaps such a thing would be impossible, but opinions on "must have" notes for such a kit would be much appreciated. Suggestions on specific frankincense, myrrh, labdanum, oppoponax, cistus, and smoky notes would be wonderful! Even notes that perhaps complement incense scents to push them in interesting directions?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Frank and Myrrh EO come in many variations, get a lot and pick which you think appropriate.
    Frank and Myrrh Resinoids are essential
    Frankincense and Myrrh Absolute and CO2's
    Frankincense and Myrrh gum tears to grind up and dissolve into alcohol
    Cedars, Hinoki, Hiba EO's
    Cedreamber

    Other Incense Gum tears to dissolve into alcohol

    Other elements that you deem to be "Incense", like Sandarac or Dragons blood, or whatever.

    Incense has many variations, with Oud, smoke, sandalwood, musk, etc., etc., etc., the question is really too broad to define what "Incense" is to anyone, there needs to be more context, geographical preferences, and direction.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Just want to second the suggestion to make your own frankincense tincture - I tried it this week and was surprised at how well it worked. I tried two different types of frankincense. One type (yellowish and translucent) dissolved almost completely into the alcohol within a few hours, while the other (whiter, more opaque tears) left quite a bit of stuff behind. Both smell great - complex, natural, topnotes intact, good longevity and are infinitely better than the "frankincense resinoid" I bought earlier this year which in comparison smelled of almost nothing.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    You will just need to filter it or have it quite dilute to remove the sticky factor. It will be like sticky varnish on your skin if it isn't dilute enough. But it is fun to do for pleasure.

    Have a look at the fragrances you have in mind or really like the sound of and see what ingredients are listed. This will tell you where you need to be thinking. There are many nuances that can enhance incense, but it really depends where you wish to take it i.e sweeter, smokier, greener, more floral etc etc. Then post and we will see where we can suggest amounts.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    This is wonderful information, guys! Thanks so much!

    I've got a couple of basic ingredients that I'm going to play around with and see where this heads and start picking up some better material if it seems a knack develops. And yes, the term is clearly quite wide, but I'm tentatively leaning toward the quasi dramatic, yet bone dry and smoky incense that CdG does well, and away from the more head-shop style Dragon's Blood BPAL type stuff.

    And Mumsy, many of the one's I've been leaning toward favor greener / woodsy, and I think that'd be my goal, but I'm wide open to suggestions.

    To do this well, I'll probably need to steer away from aromachemicals though, right?

  6. #6

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    As for bone dry, Like Avignon, I will tell you that there is zero Frankincense in Avignon
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  7. #7

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    As for bone dry, Like Avignon, I will tell you that there is zero Frankincense in Avignon
    Yes, it seems to be carried largely by the cistus note.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    wow, awesome discussion btw...

  9. #9

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Greener woodsy may take you towards galbanum but you would only need a micro amount. Bone dry woodsy will take you towards Norimbanol (aromachem). It depends where you are but I can always send you a dot to smell but it would have to be on paper if you are abroad because of the sending restrictions.

    Describe your ideal incense scent from start to drydown and we will suggest things. Write a pretend review of it before it exists. An inverse perfume if you like.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by mumsy View Post
    Greener woodsy may take you towards galbanum but you would only need a micro amount. Bone dry woodsy will take you towards Norimbanol (aromachem). It depends where you are but I can always send you a dot to smell but it would have to be on paper if you are abroad because of the sending restrictions.

    Describe your ideal incense scent from start to drydown and we will suggest things. Write a pretend review of it before it exists. An inverse perfume if you like.
    Mumsy, this is a great idea -- and I'll draft something up tonight -- maybe even a small suite of fragrances! BTW, I am abroad -- I'm in Los Angeles (hi Paul!), but I'm actually from the UK (Newcastle!). Thanks for the offer of the dot, but I'll try and get it locally first so as not to put you out. I've been collating resources, chatting with a few people I know in the industry who are always willing to help. I'm also going to attend Brent Leonesio's (Smell Bent) lecture on aromachemicals next week. I could write up some notes if people would be interested in hearing what he has to say (I know little about his line, to be honest).

  11. #11

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Well I think it would be fun too. I love doing perfume analysis on people. I have how on another thread.

    As for the lecture... any info is good info... yes please on a report. Brief or otherwise. It's always interesting to know what people are doing.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Well, it's a little tough to describe an ideal scent as Avignon would really be it. I'm essentially looking for those kind of notes that I could move around, adjust, maybe blend with other things. So, an ultra dry, sharp, resinous scent with little / no sweetness. Not a fan of top notes in general, and for this, I'd rather go as linear as possible. I love fragrances that have a prominent incense component, such as Interlude Man, Amber Absolute etc., but really what I'm shooting for is more of an accord than a full fragrance at this point.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Hi Deadidol, Welcome to LA.

    Monday is out, because a radio crew is coming to do an interview about me and my perfumes, but other times next week, you'd be able to drive out and visit my Perfumarium, if you'd like...

    I've had other UK guests in the last two months, visit LA, and then come here...

    I am a bit outside of LA, and it would easily take 1.5 hours from Downtown LA to get here.
    PM Me if you want more info...

    Smell Bent is a line based on Camp, and Gay Camp, and more camp, and seriousness as well, ... I think ...
    Not an expert either, but that's the gestalt I get.
    Brent cracks me up when he cocks his head on a 45 degree angle to listen or talk.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  14. #14

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Smell Bent is a line based on Camp, and Gay Camp, and more camp, and seriousness as well, ... I think ...
    Not an expert either, but that's the gestalt I get.
    Brent cracks me up when he cocks his head on a 45 degree angle to listen or talk.
    Yes, there's a real irreverence to what he's doing. To be frank, his scents don't hold much appeal for me, but I do hope to try them. I think the talk will be fun, and will offer a nice crash course in some basics.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Hmm.. So did you come up with anything?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Hmm.. So did you come up with anything?
    How spooky that you should bring this up because I was just looking for this thread a couple of days ago. It's been almost a year, and I've been busy stockpiling and learning about materials (I'm taking things very slow), but yes, I found that uber-dry and relatively minimal incense scents like the ones I'd mentioned (Avignon etc.) are fairly straight forward. While I've certainly not cracked the code, I've found that these kind of scents (not necessarily the specific scents themselves) tend to run on variants of patchouli, chamomile, elemi, woody-chems, and aldehydes. The shrieky top part of Avignon can be reasonably mimicked through trace amounts of C-12 MNA.

    I actually started (or I think PK started it for me) a thread on weird aromachemicals, and I've got a bunch of fun stuff that I could add there as well.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    C-12, I learned my lesson in playing around with that one. The smallest amounts are noticeable. C-11 Enec is what I use in mine along with Frankincense/Cedar C02 Extract, Cardamom and a hint of tonka; the incense isn't bone dry, but warm and slightly sweet.
    Madhat Scents - My personal limited run artisan perfume project. Jour et la Nuit (17/18th Century Style Chypre - Oakmoss/Resins/Musk/Vintage Civet Tincture.) / Bespoke 8.30.14 - ONLY 4 LEFT! (Apple, Cavendish Pipe Tobacco, Vanilla, Smoke, Woods & Resin.)

    ***MadHat Samples now available at Surrender to Chance here.
    ***

    SALES THREAD Slumberhouse, CdG & More...

  18. #18

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Chamomile and incense? Hmm.. Can't even stretch my imagination around that. But I never tried it in trace amounts. And I'm not familiar with Elemi.. On the Yahoo group someone mentioned the Black Agar base as something which helped him emphasize frankincense, but I don't think it's dry..
    What wood chems did you use? I'm having trouble finding woody chems which last for a long time (vertofix and cedramber don't really take things where I want them).

  19. #19

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Piconia, CAS23787-90-8, 33407-62-4 ; De Hekserij sell it in small amounts. Scent most resembles to Frankincense from all aromachems that I tray. Beautiful molecule.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Chamomile and incense? Hmm.. Can't even stretch my imagination around that. But I never tried it in trace amounts. And I'm not familiar with Elemi.. On the Yahoo group someone mentioned the Black Agar base as something which helped him emphasize frankincense, but I don't think it's dry..
    What wood chems did you use? I'm having trouble finding woody chems which last for a long time (vertofix and cedramber don't really take things where I want them).
    For a woody note that lasts and lasts, have you tried Norlimbanol? Itís incredibly persistent and if you use it alongside a sandalwood-type (many of which are also very long-lasting) you can get a dry, but not too dry, woody note that will outlast most things.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Yep, Norlimbanol's a good one for this. Piconia's on my "to try" list now for sure!

    I can't imagine black agar working in a dry accord, but I guess it's possible.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    It's a bit too dry.. Still trying to figure out what to put around it.. Going to try some guaiac. I'm pretty traumatized by javanol, so not sure I should use it.. Maybe sandalore? I'm going for a meditative dark atmosphere (hence the question about that strange lady's smoke..)

  23. #23

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Guaiacol is certainly an option, but youíll need very little, itís another big hitter.

    Sandalore is much rounder and smoother than Javanol in my view - also consider Ebanol which is slightly stronger. The two work together very well too.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  24. #24

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Oh, and I meant to say before Piconia (aka Isolongifolene ketone) is also a very lovely material.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Bartlett View Post
    Guaiacol is certainly an option, but you’ll need very little, it’s another big hitter.
    I've used guaiacol to develop a "burning leaves" version, but without the C-12 MNA as that's a different direction altogether. I use javanol quite often, but find that if I want to featured that sort of heady effect you get from synth sandalwoods, I'll add a touch of ebanol on top. But for the dry incense, I find that the scratchier woody-ambers work best: norlimbanol, bois ambrene forte, cedramber. The chamomile / elemi / patch softens it a little, or sometimes I'll add tiny sweetening effect such as maltol or trimethyl pyrazine.

    I just picked up Orinox 50 (labdanum ethanone), and that's a promising material for these kind of sketches (although I haven't tried it yet).

  26. #26

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Have you tried Ambermax?
    To me it's pretty dry, and somewhat green, but Chris once suggested it in regard to Frankincense,
    and I think I'm a bit anosmic to some ambers (though I can't be sure..)

  27. #27

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Have you tried Ambermax?
    To me it's pretty dry, and somewhat green, but Chris once suggested it in regard to Frankincense,
    and I think I'm a bit anosmic to some ambers (though I can't be sure..)
    Yeah. It's Givaudan's Oxyoctaline Formate, right? I have it, and I'm pretty anosmic to that one myself.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Hmm, Just went to the shelves and since I just bought a kilo of Ambermax, I was curious if Oxyoctaline Formate was the equivalent. They are not the same, different...

    OF is more towards Iso E Super than Ambery. Ambermax is much more ambery...

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  29. #29

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Hmm, Just went to the shelves and since I just bought a kilo of Ambermax, I was curious if Oxyoctaline Formate was the equivalent. They are not the same, different...

    OF is more towards Iso E Super than Ambery. Ambermax is much more ambery...

    PK
    Oh you're right, I mixed them up in the TGS search! Apologies!

    I haven't tried ambermax, it seems.

    How are you liking ambermax so far, Paul?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Nice for what it is... I have way too many ambers and samples of them, I'll have to really study them soon... my two basket's worth is still overflowing of bottles, probably 30 of them...

    I was reading up on Paradisone, and someone said that Ambermax was one of a handful of the most diffusive perfumery ingredients out there, and I didn't have any, so I bought it to see what it was about.

    The other half of my Kilo is going out to Mike Storer...

    PK
    Last edited by pkiler; 9th April 2014 at 03:23 PM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  31. #31

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    Nice for what it is... I have way too many ambers and samples of them, I'll have to really study them soon... my two basket's worth is still overflowing of bottles, probably 30 of them...
    I'm at the cut-off point now too, but this one actually looks like it might serve as a practical entry into the sacred kingdom of Vigon Piconia's on my list though, as is ultravanil—which is a bit tangential given the context of this thread, but it sounds like it might work as auxiliary to some of these dry ambers with its supposed guaiac facets.
    Last edited by deadidol; 8th April 2014 at 10:13 PM.

  32. #32

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    There must be a modern fragrance containing a huge amount of piconia. Several times I smelled it (from a distance) and the piconia note was so dominant. Does anyone of you know which (unisex) perfume I am talking about?
    And does anyone else detect a kind of cherry-note in the dry down (after all this camphorishness)? Like cherry-menthol-drops.

  33. #33

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Well, it turns out I do have isologngifolanone (piconia) after all (I had a package arrive a few days ago that I'm still working through). I haven't done anything with it yet, nor could I really identify a scent that its prominent in off the top of my head, but the camphor is definitely there which lends the material a slight watery quality. It has a slight shrillness of, say, rosewood or teak, but there's a subtle cedar facet there too. I don't get cherry from it, but I do get a bit of a straw note. I'm not sure I'd lump this in with the woody ambers as I could actually picture it as more of a green builder—maybe even a builder for florals.

  34. #34

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Paul - do also get a green foresty note from it?

  35. #35

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Paul - do also get a green foresty note from it?
    Green Foresty note from Ambermax? No....

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  36. #36

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Have you tried Ambermax?
    To me it's pretty dry, and somewhat green, but Chris once suggested it in regard to Frankincense,
    and I think I'm a bit anosmic to some ambers (though I can't be sure..)
    Ambermax is a brilliant material - very powerful - very diffusive - very amber. They didnít call it amberMAX for nothing: it was a Givaudan captive until last year.

    It comes in two versions 50% in Dowanol TPM or 10% in TEC. I have the 50% version. Even a trace can have a big impact and it works synergistically with ambrofix and labdanum among other things.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  37. #37

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    I guess the greeness is just me then.. Could be some kind of anosmia.. Thought after a couple of days it smells more like amber. If I work with everything at 10%, could ambermax at 1% be too much?

  38. #38

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I guess the greeness is just me then.. Could be some kind of anosmia.. Thought after a couple of days it smells more like amber. If I work with everything at 10%, could ambermax at 1% be too much?
    Iíd say 1% is sensible if youíre working with other things at 10% but youíll still want to be cautious with it - as you would with something like Calone for example.
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Incense Accord Essentials List

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Well, it turns out I do have isologngifolanone (piconia) after all (I had a package arrive a few days ago that I'm still working through). I haven't done anything with it yet, nor could I really identify a scent that its prominent in off the top of my head, but the camphor is definitely there which lends the material a slight watery quality. It has a slight shrillness of, say, rosewood or teak, but there's a subtle cedar facet there too. I don't get cherry from it, but I do get a bit of a straw note. I'm not sure I'd lump this in with the woody ambers as I could actually picture it as more of a green builder—maybe even a builder for florals.
    Interesting, what you are writing about this ac. I think slight watery quality/slight shrillness are spot on.

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 2nd March 2013, 04:52 PM
  2. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1st March 2013, 10:07 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 1st March 2013, 10:05 PM
  4. Incense accord
    By scottb in forum Fragrance DIY
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 24th May 2011, 02:34 AM
  5. list of colognes with incense neglects the cdg series
    By supermarky in forum Male Fragrance Discussion
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 26th March 2007, 11:33 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •