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  1. #1

    Default Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    I'm having trouble locating a free Tuberose Headspace GC-MS to reference buliding a Tuberose accord,
    Anybody got one in their files?
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  2. #2

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Most likely you already have these and for some reason they aren't suiting, but in case not:

    http://essentialoils.org/eoudb/view/oil/1889
    http://essentialoils.org/eoudb/view/oil/2170

    (At least one of them is near-worthless or at best extremely incomplete, though.)

    Why the GC's from this source in general have so little agreement with each other, I don't know. I suspect it may be from the researchers reporting only those things for which they had standards, usually not having many standards, and differing researchers having different standards on hand. The overall outcome though is that I just never know whether a given component usually is really not there and only is there in certain instances, or whether the one-out-of-ten GC's that shows it is listing something that actually is in all of them!
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 3rd May 2013 at 09:08 PM. Reason: Corrected accidental duplication of links, now two different links

  3. #3

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Oh Thanks, I hadn't looked there...

    I'll make up the fuller one today, and see what it smells like...

    I've been in full ferret mode for this headspace research, and emailed half a dozen of the researchers listed on the two or three documents that I can find, to see if they'll send me their papers, because there doesn't even seem to be anyplace where I can even BUY the papers...

    :-)
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  4. #4

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    In trying to find something I'd seen before, I found this now. Actually this website seems to have a tremendous amound of information:

    "Its main constituents are benzyl alcohol and -acetate, methyl and benzyl benzoate, methyl salicylate, methyl anthranilate, eugenol, geraniol and nerol and -acetates, and farnesol, but its power and original effect is due to a multitude of gamma- and delta-lactones, some of them only found in tuberose [105, 106]."

    tuberose.gif


    [105] Maurer B, Hauser A. Identification and synthesis of new gamma-lactones from tuberose absolute (Polianthes tuberosa). Helvetica Chimica Acta 1982;65(2):462-476.

    [106] Kaiser R, Lamparsky D. Das Lacton der 5-hydroxy-cis-2,cis-7-Decadiensaeure und weitere Lactone aus dem Absolue der Blueten von Polianthes tuberosa. Tetrahedron Letters 1976;20:1659-1660.

    http://www.bojensen.net/EssentialOil...0.htm#Tuberose

    (EDIT: That's in reference to the absolute, rather than headspace.)
    Last edited by Bill Roberts; 3rd May 2013 at 09:06 PM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Yes, I have the Tuberose lactone element, Methyl Tuberate.

    This was also helpful, http://kasetsartjournal.ku.ac.th/kuj...1301504218.pdf


    I've been working on a watery ozonic orangeblossom, that just needs a little push to get to Tuberose, and be quite lovely, as it is very reminiscent already of Tuberose flowers... I am just trying to make an educated stab at Tuberose, from My orangeblossom, as well as build Tuberose by itself.

    Thanks Bill.

    Oh and Bill, It's so nice that we have another guy in the "Real Name Club" of using their real names on Basenotes, instead of a nick,
    Last edited by pkiler; 4th May 2013 at 12:33 AM.
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  6. #6

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?



    Wow, I didn't know until now, from your posting it, that methyl tuberate was a natural substance. I'd assumed (not a good thing to do) it was a synthetic given a name to put into a category, as often happens. Good to know!

    That pdf was a terrific source!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    I found this in my book of reprints of the Progress in Essential Oils section from P&F, in this case from 1995:

    Tuberose-Headspace.pdf
    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation Iím happy to quote: if you want free advice, thatís what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Mr Tauer has a very good article on Tubereuse here

    (BTW PKiller. Re: the 'real name club'. Many good reasons not to use a real name online. Kids for a main start, for their safety, they would be humiliated, and there just far too many wierdos. Paranoia would rule my life daily with names plastered all over the internet. A terrifying idea. So look-up-able for anyone to find an address from. Men probably don't mind so much and it's jolly useful to do so if you are trading under own name to promote your business too. No point whatsoever if not.)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Thanks so Much Chris, I've been seeing the Jasmin Lactone, and Delta Dodecalactone come up again and again... Your paper does it again. So glad I've recently gotten some of both...

    Mumsy, Yes and Thanks! I've pored over Andy's notes for his line re: Tuberose... and learned.

    Now that I have a better handle of where I'm going, I'm going to revisit some Tuberose formulas I have found and made, that are not very satisfying, and rework them...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  10. #10

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Have you got some tuberose concrete to sniff from? It is the most remarkable substance. On the verge of pleasant and unpleasant at that strength.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I've been hunting for you and found reference to these in one of my old books
    Hesse and Varley (from Perfumerie Moderne 1923) identified these constituents but not the proportions
    Benzyl alcohol, Benzyl benzoate, Methyl anthranilate, Methyl benzoate, Methyl salicylate and A ketone, called tuberone.
    The Methyl anthranilate was believed to average about 2% ad the ketone 10%
    F. Elize (from Reichstoffindustrie 1928) had made an examination of the oil distilled from the absolute and found in addition to the above - Eugenol, Geraniol, Nerol, and farnesol

  11. #11

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Thanks Mumsy for your searching,, I really Appreciate that... I'll ad that to my intelligence data to work through.

    As for "Tuberone", I can only guess Tuberose Lactone, which I don't have...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  12. #12

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    from a dutch website,

    Methylbenzoaat, benzylbenzoaat, methylanthranilaat, benzylalcohol, boterzuur, geranylacetaat, nerylacetaat, methylsalicylaat, eugenol, nerol, farnesol, geraniol, tuberon.

    boterzuur is butyric acid, the other ones are easy (-aat becomes -ate for all the esters, -on becomes -one for the ketone, alcohols stay the same.)

    here's the address, they list a lot, and you can browse using latin nomenclature, then look for familiar words (like in the list above.)

  13. #13

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Thanks again,.. Gonna have to get a few more chems, like Butyric Acid, and see what I can do on the Tuberose Lactone as well. But I think that these two from Mumsy and Gido are actually GC-MS of the Tuberose Absolute, and I am really looking for the fresh flower Headspace GC-MS.

    But these Absolutes GC-MS are also helpful to build that aspect too, a lot cheaper than the real Abs...

    - - - Updated - - -

    You know, Reading through the recount of Andy's Tuberose, and hearing about those Tuberose Specific Lactones, I had the nagging suspicion that I had not rooted out all of them... I think that this new Tuberone, Tuberose LActone is a great find indeed! YAY!

    Thanks so Much Mumsy and Gido,
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  14. #14

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Just got some tuberose abs. today.. Paul - did you nail the essential chemicals to
    reproduce something similar?

  15. #15

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Nizan, I'm not after reproducing the absolute. I'm after the fresh flower odor profile.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  16. #16

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Never smelled the real flower :/
    Did you find and relevant headspace or chems by experimentation (that you'll be willing to share..)?

  17. #17
    Basenotes Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Nizan if you smell tuberose real flower you will be out of it. It is the most erotic, sensual, and hypnotic scent in the world. I love it more than gardenia, jasmine or the other white florals. The absolute is nice and rich but a bit morbid. I think you can find the headspace of the absolute in perfume making yahoo group, if you are a member there, or PM your email and I will search my archive.

  18. #18
    gecko214's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    I don't "get" the absolute at all, on its own I find it almost unpleasant and kind of "muddy" even in dilution. The real flower is indeed a lovely and heady thing, we used to buy them as cut flowers when I lived in Pakistan.

  19. #19

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Quote Originally Posted by gecko214 View Post
    I don't "get" the absolute at all, on its own I find it almost unpleasant and kind of "muddy" even in dilution. The real flower is indeed a lovely and heady thing, we used to buy them as cut flowers when I lived in Pakistan.
    This is why I seek the Fresh Flower scent of the Tuberose...

    I have enjoyed the Tuberose from the bazaars in so many places, to bring back to my hotel rooms... fantastic!

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  20. #20

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    I think I should find a way to get some fresh flowers, then. No idea what they're called here, though

  21. #21

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Maybe try the Latin name, Nizan?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polianthes_tuberosa

  22. #22

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Yeah, I've already Googled it.. They just call it by the Latin name here. It's not really common here, though.. :\

  23. #23

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    It isn't common here either

  24. #24
    Basenotes Member nicok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    Nizan I think there will be cultivation of tuberose in Israel. But again maybe it is extremely dry.
    I grew up in Greece, and they cultivate tuberoses in the place I used to live. I can't forget this scent. I also remember
    that when we had them on a vase, we had to take it out in the night because of the strong / hypnotic fragrance.
    I'd say buy few bulbs and plant them..

  25. #25

    Default Re: Tuberose Headspace GC-MS?

    It's not dry here, I'm close to the shore.. If it grows in Greece, it'll grow in here.. Already started moving things with a friend who knows a lot of flower growers

    And for some good news - my cestrum is showing some buds!

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