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  1. #1

    Default [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Hello Everyone,

    I've only used basenote for info on cologne but i'd like to start posting splits here now. You're probably thinking "why should I trust this guy?" i've done splits on reddit before.
    Here is a link to one that I have edited as proof. Just look at the bottom of the post. Recently I did an Aventus split and got a sample of Jardin d'Amalfi and boy does it smell good, but I need a bigger sample to figure out if I would like it in my collection. So I decided to post this split.

    Jardin d'Amalfi on basenotes

    ---
    Decant information:

    Decants will be in a labeled glass atomizer that are larger than the volume purchased. Threads will be wrapped in teflon tape. Decants will then be bagged, wrapped in bubble wrap, and shipped in a sturdy box via USPS first class parcel.

    2015-03-06 22.37.44.jpg

    ---
    Payment information:

    Prefer payment as friends and family, but will accept as goods and services. Payment is due 2 days after I send out payment details. If you need to delay payment please let me know ahead of time.

    IMPROTANT: In order to be able to participate you either must have been member for more than 6 weeks, participated in a split before, or message me for approval. I reserve the right to choose who I allow to participate.

    ---
    I order Creed's directly from creed to ensure authenticity and a fresh batch. The cost for 250 ml of Jardin is $710.

    Atomizers and shipping are included in the price.
    $1 for atomizers 10 ml and below
    $3 for atomizers 20 ml and up
    Shipping plus the cost of supplies is about $5

    Prices:

    • 10 ml - $38 ($39 if payment is as goods and services)
    • 20 ml - $68 ($70 if payment is as goods and services)
    • 25 ml - $85 ($89 if payment is as goods and services)
    • 50 ml - $163 ($170 if payment is as goods and services)
    • 100 ml - $318 ($331 if payment is as goods and services)

    Extra shipping fees
    • Alaska or Hawaii + $4
    • Canada + $6

    ---
    Bottle 1: 240/250
    • Myself - 10 ml
    Last edited by Youssif9; 7th March 2015 at 11:17 PM.

  2. #2

    thebeck's Avatar
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    I don't think you meet the requirments to host a split.

    Can I host a split?

    Members who meet Marketplace requirements (have made over 500 posts - or - been a member for a year - or - are a Basenotes Plus member) and have no negative feedback are eligible to host a split.

  3. #3

  4. #4
    Basenotes Institution 30 Roses's Avatar
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    The OP has met the requirements as they are written (member for over a year and no negative feedbacks) but he also has just one post (this one) and no positive feedbacks!

    Seems to me someone offering splits ought to have some positive feedback, not merely the absence of negatives.

    I also agree with remik.
    Join us in discussing Penhaligon's newest feminine, Ostara, a daffodil soliflore by Bertrand Duchafour
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/403...74#post3474074

    We also still have room in our Penhaligon's Trade Routes Sample Pass--sign up now!
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/400...antium-Lothair

  5. #5

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Remik,

    I understand there is a split for this fragrance in this region already. If we went by that rule you would be the only spliter on this forum. Yet we see any others posting up creeds and Tom Fords which makes me wonder why you single me out on this issue. Either way if you notice my split offers smaller sizes the just your typical 25 and 50 ml. This is what I like to do and I didn't want anything more then 10 ml. Thanks for your feedback.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    While we all prefer to offer one split fragrance per splitter, Youssiff9 has a very valid point. Just look at how many splits are now going on for various Tom Ford fragrances. One splitter in particular has been running Tom Ford splits since I have been a member and long before I started splitting, which means there have been newer splitters doing the same Tom Fords.

    Heck, if I look at several splits I am running, I can find splits being run that were listed after mine.

    If it is good for the goose, it should be good for the gander.

    Lastly, we are all breaking protocol. If anyone has an issue with this splitter, it should be brought to the attention of the mods and they can make final decisions.

  7. #7

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Just curious - how much are you charging for atomizers/shipping? Numbers aren't adding up...

  8. #8
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Fair enough. I closed all my Tom Ford splits. The only reason I posted them (besides the fact that I love TF) is that (a) the other splitter that has been active is based in Canada and I've had enough requests to offer these with domestic shipping/no international shipping issues so it made sense, and (b) the other TF splitter, at least at the time of me posting the three splits I did run, did not offer them on their pages. This includes Tuscan Leather, Neroli Portofino and Plum Japonais. If they do have them now, that's different, but at the time of listing them - they did not.

    - - - Updated - - -

    To the OP - it sounds to me like you are running a split just to try JdA yourself and you'd like to keep 10ml for that purpose. If that's the case and you only wish to try JdA in 10ml size... PM me, I'd be happy to decant that portion from my own personal bottle (not from a split, which I'm doing in 25ml+ increments). The bottle is 250ml, trying to split it 25 ways could take an awful long time, especially with the huge markup you are putting on these splits.
    Last edited by remik; 7th March 2015 at 09:07 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    mjones602,

    Atomizers and shipping are included in the price.
    $1 for atomizers 10 ml and below
    $3 for atomizers 20 ml and up
    Shipping plus the cost of supplies is about $5

    Also I have lowered the price of each size by about $3 due to an error in my calculations.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    The math still doesn't add up. Your 100ml is (just as an example) $324. Based on $710/250ml that should be $284 + $3 atomizer + $5 s&h, or $292. You are asking $32 more than that, so one can only assume it's your "markup"...?

  11. #11

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Bottle $710
    Syringe $1
    boxes (estimated) $15
    Bags $1
    Labels $1
    shipping (estimated) $28.6
    Atomizers (estimated) $29

    Total cost: $785
    $785/250 ml = $3.14 per ML

    100ml*$3.14 = $314 + cost for time

    Dose this make you happy remik? It sure sounds like your trying to get rid of me instead of welcoming me to the community. Is this a fragrance community or a business?
    Last edited by Youssif9; 7th March 2015 at 09:36 PM.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Is this a fragrance community or a business?
    You just answered your own question. Splits are meant to be a "non profit" service to the community, not a business where you clearly want to profit from running splits. I don't see any other splitters padding $10 (or $32) to the cost of a single decant, on top of the actual cost of materials and shipping. Your logic clearly indicates you intend to run this for-profit. Nothing personal and no, I'm not "trying to get rid of you" - just trying to show the many holes in your logic.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Bottle $710
    Syringe $1
    boxes (estimated) $15
    Bags $1
    Labels $1
    shipping (estimated) $28.6
    Atomizers (estimated) $29

    Total cost: $785
    $785/250 ml = $3.14 per ML

    100ml*$3.14 = $314 + cost for time
    Why does the person who springs for a 100ml have to pay for such a large portion of your "extra" costs? Based on your math, compared to taking the actual price per ml and adding on only the actual supplies and shipping for that person's portion, there is a $22 difference. If I decided to buy 100ml, I'm not interested in paying an extra $22 to go towards the shipping and supplies of the other members in your split, but that's what happens when you back into the price the way that you did above.

  14. #14

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    You can get shipping boxes for free at your local post office. Save you $15

  15. #15

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    You just answered your own question. Splits are meant to be a "non profit" service to the community, not a business where you clearly want to profit from running splits. I don't see any other splitters padding $10 (or $32) to the cost of a single decant, on top of the actual cost of materials and shipping. Your logic clearly indicates you intend to run this for-profit. Nothing personal and no, I'm not "trying to get rid of you" - just trying to show the many holes in your logic.
    Remik,

    If we take a look at your aventus split for example.

    500ml flacon = $710.00
    25ml split = $53.00 ($50.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    50ml split = $89.00 ($85.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    100ml split = $165.00 ($158.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    Original flacon and presentation box - available with 150ml+ portion of the split.

    Remik's Aventus split prices above.

    $710 + (Lets overestimate $70, since its a large split, for cost of atomizers and shipping) = $780
    $780/500 = $1.56 per ML


    Now if everyone wants 100 ml that would probably bring the cost down to about $750 since you only need 5 atomizers and shipping.
    We will stick with $780 just to keep it safe.

    So $1.56*100=$156 <- cost for 100ml for remik
    remik's price $165 <- cost the the person wanting a split
    $165-$156=$9 <- profit for remik.
    So $9*(500/100) splits = $45 profit for a split with everyone wanting 100 ml.
    We already calculated for $70 of cost, but if we round up to $100, which is highly unlikely, remik still makes $15


    Lets drop down to 50 ml
    So $1.56*50ml=$78 <- cost for 50ml for remik
    remik's price $89 <- cost the the person wanting a split
    $89-$78=$11 <- profit for remik.
    $11*(500/50) =$110 profit for a split with everyone wanting 50 ml.
    We already calculated for $70 of cost, but if we round up to $120, which is highly unlikely, remik still makes $60

    And we go further down to 25 ml
    So $1.56*25ml=$39 <- cost for 50ml for remik
    remik's price = $53 <- cost the the person wanting a split
    $53-$39=$14 <- profit for remik.
    $11*(500/25)=$280 profit for a split with everyone wanting 25 ml.
    We already calculated for $70 of cost, but if we round up to $160, which is highly unlikely, remik still makes $190



    These profit numbers based on my cost to do a split like this. I only have 1 or 2 splits open at a time. Considering remik has probably 15+ splits going most likely he's buying supplies bulk giving remik a further discount on the cost. But again we will stick with the original number we got.

    Now remik, since you have so many splits open one might wonder how do you have this much time?
    It takes 3-5 hours to do a split and get it shipped, and since you have so many going it doesn't really sound like you have time for a typical job.
    And now we see no time for anything else + profit means your probably running a business.

    I'm and engineering student with very little free time. With what extra time i have i like to spend it with fragrances.
    The extra cost is for my time not for profit. any money i get extra from the splits i run go right back into buying more splits from others.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by naylor View Post
    Why does the person who springs for a 100ml have to pay for such a large portion of your "extra" costs? Based on your math, compared to taking the actual price per ml and adding on only the actual supplies and shipping for that person's portion, there is a $22 difference. If I decided to buy 100ml, I'm not interested in paying an extra $22 to go towards the shipping and supplies of the other members in your split, but that's what happens when you back into the price the way that you did above.
    Naylor,

    it is impossible to know who would want what size so i have to generalize a price based on previous splits

  16. #16

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Youssif9: You can't charge for time — splits are not-for-profit, and each aspect of the split needs to be itemized.

    From what I can tell, your pricing should look something more like this:

    $710 / 250ml = $2.84 per ml

    100ml = $284
    Atomizer = $3
    Syringe = $1
    S/H = $5
    Total = $293

    You can pad a little if you feel like you might lose some money somewhere (tax on supplies, etc.) but that's really it. Shipping 100ml might cost more than $5, so I'd personally be inclined to set s/h a couple of dollars higher. But what's key is that each dollar in your price breakdown is accounted for.
    Last edited by deadidol; 7th March 2015 at 11:12 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Youssif9: You can't charge for time — splits are not-for-profit, and each aspect of the split needs to be itemized.

    From what I can tell, your pricing should look something more like this:

    $710 / 250ml = $2.84 per ml

    100ml = $284
    Atomizer = $3
    Syringe = $1
    S/H = $5
    Total = $293
    Deadidol,

    From what i read on the rules a spliter was allowed to add a bit as compoensation for time.

    Thisis the rules thread i am referring to.

    Has the rules been changed?

    Thanks!

  18. #18

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Deadidol,

    From what i read on the rules a spliter was allowed to add a bit as compoensation for time.
    That's true, and I did recall seeing that mentioned somewhere in Grant's post (but couldn't find it). I'll look into it a bit more, but if you want to charge a handling cost, you should make it clear what that is — specifically by dollar amount. The problem is, it's not the norm at all, and I fear that your split won't stand a chance if you're ramping up the price. It is time-consuming, and that's the main reason I no longer do them!

    Add it into your price breakdown for now, and we'll get back to you on it.

  19. #19

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    That's true, and I did recall seeing that mentioned somewhere in Grant's post (but couldn't find it). I'll look into it a bit more, but if you want to charge a handling cost, you should make it clear what that is — specifically by dollar amount. The problem is, it's not the norm at all, and I fear that your split won't stand a chance if you're ramping up the price. It is time-consuming, and that's the main reason I no longer do them!

    Add it into your price breakdown for now, and we'll get back to you on it.
    Deadidol,

    I no longer wish to host splits in this community. It seems this community is more of a business. This split has been closed. However I strongly implore you to take a look at remik's prices. I've took a look at many of his prices, ran some number, and they are extremely inflated. I also implore anyone else to do the same. And to anyone that would like a smaller, more personal fragrance community, please feel free to come chat with us on http://www.reddit.com/r/fragsplits/

    Also i would like to ask the moderators to look into amending the rules.
    1. Each spliter cannot host more then 4 splits. (To ensure diversity in fragrances, locations splits are taking place, and to prevent monopolies.)
    2. The spliter is to give full transparency in cost and compensation. Not just how much the bottle cost. spliters are to show
    • bottle cost
    • materials cost
    • shipping cost
    • compensation


    If the spliter does not provide this info their split should be removed.

    Thank you everyone and good luck!
    Last edited by Youssif9; 7th March 2015 at 11:46 PM.

  20. #20
    Dependent naylor's Avatar
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Naylor,

    it is impossible to know who would want what size so i have to generalize a price based on previous splits
    Which is exactly why you don't add a lump sum of total supplies/shipping cost into your base price per ml. Because you don't know who will take which size, and their cost should only reflect the supplies and shipping that you spend on the exact decant that they purchased ... not a portion of your other buyers' costs also.

    Base price per ml + actual cost of that size atomizer/supplies + actual shipping cost of that package = total price

    Anyway, good luck in your splitting endeavors.

  21. #21
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Remik,

    If we take a look at your aventus split for example.

    500ml flacon = $710.00
    25ml split = $53.00 ($50.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    50ml split = $89.00 ($85.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    100ml split = $165.00 ($158.00 if using Friends/Family option)
    Original flacon and presentation box - available with 150ml+ portion of the split.

    Remik's Aventus split prices above.

    $710 + (Lets overestimate $70, since its a large split, for cost of atomizers and shipping) = $780
    $780/500 = $1.56 per ML


    Now if everyone wants 100 ml that would probably bring the cost down to about $750 since you only need 5 atomizers and shipping.
    We will stick with $780 just to keep it safe.

    So $1.56*100=$156 <- cost for 100ml for remik
    remik's price $165 <- cost the the person wanting a split
    $165-$156=$9 <- profit for remik.

    Dude, you are doing things ass-backwards... The bottle is $710, it's 500ml, so the cost per ml is $1.42. Since you have no idea how many people will take 25ml spots, how many will take 50ml spots, how many will take 100ml spots - you can't just throw a random number and base your per-ml prices on that made up "total price." It's $1.42/ml plus cost of materials and shipping. Period. My splits all reflect that - basic calculations of what the bottle costs, divided into whatever per-ml would be, give people option to choose their own size, and the pricing works out to cover the actual costs. That is how I do it, that is how (I believe) all other splitters do it, based on what I'm seeing others are calculating. We may all be off by a few cents or a buck here and there, we buy supplies from different sources, sometimes supplies are impossible to get (100ml bottles were nearly impossible to get for over 6 months, resulting in crazy high prices, for example), but ultimately it's the cost of fragrance + cost of materials + cost of shipping. Not cost of fragrance + random number / number of mls in a bottle + random markup... Why "overestimate $70" when you know the price of the bottle? Why add random numbers to the cost of bottle before you divide it by the number of mls in it? Don't you see how weird that comes out and how you end up running a for-profit split at that point, collecting $32 *extra* on a *single split portion*, over and above the cost of fragrance/materials/shipping?

    I rest my case.

    PS: In your evident lack of math skills, you are also using the price + PayPal fees to figure out "Remik's profit" - when the price clearly is $158 for that split, not $165. So that $9 "profit" magically goes away, doesn't it...? <sigh>
    Last edited by remik; 8th March 2015 at 07:07 AM.

  22. #22

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Don't know if this is the right spot for it, but I for one would absolutely 100% back the idea of one split per fragrance by geographic location, and to limit the number of times one person can resplit the same thing over and over. I know it won't happen, but as someone who used to split frequently here years back, it got annoying when the same people started taking over entire lines and splitting them five and six times, not allowing others to do so. Seems to fly a bit in the face of the spirit of organizing a group purchase for you and other people. I've also had a few of my splits stepped on more than once by someone opening one after I already had it open. Kind of annoying, but so it goes. I know others here don't and won't agree with my views, but I figured it was worth adding to the discussion.
    Splits!

    Tom Ford - Patchouli Absolu --------> http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...tchouli-Absolu

  23. #23
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by fitch256 View Post
    Don't know if this is the right spot for it, but I for one would absolutely 100% back the idea of one split per fragrance by geographic location, and to limit the number of times one person can resplit the same thing over and over. I know it won't happen, but as someone who used to split frequently here years back, it got annoying when the same people started taking over entire lines and splitting them five and six times, not allowing others to do so.
    I am not sure if that is a real problem... I mean, if someone already volunteers their time and makes an effort to split one bottle, is there a difference if they run it again? What is the difference between one splitter running the same fragrance once vs 2, 3, 4 or 5 times? What "irreparable harm" does this cause to others? What do others stand to gain by having the bottle split by different people every time there's interest in it being split?

    Look, there are over a million fragrances out there. Everyone is free to split whatever they want from the very, very, very, very, VERY long list of what's out there, should they feel generous enough to donate their time to the cause. I try to be nice and regularly check with others to make sure I don't run the same splits as someone else. Ask PalmBeach as an example - we've exchanged emails on this in the past, there was maybe one time when I didn't notice he already had a bottle on his page posted earlier, and I promptly removed mine from my list so there was no overlap and no conflict. And he also checks my page to see what I have so he doesn't post the same bottles. The three Tom Fords I did have that were somewhat overlapping, until recently, were posted because there was a geographical difference between splitters, and the other US splitter *at the time* I posted them, did not have these three bottles listed on his page, so it seemed like a fair game to me. Wouldn't you say the other splitter should have checked to make sure someone else wasn't already running splits of these bottles before listing them? And I won't even go into the secretive practices where no names are listed next to any splits, so that no one ever knows if these are real splits or someone selling decants, one at a time, because there's no way to prove otherwise. Some splitters cross-list the same bottles here, on eBay, Facebook fragrance groups, Crystal Flacon, etc. Doesn't that fly in the face of Basenotes rules where the bottle must be entirely spoken for before money is collected, bottle is ordered, etc? These "splitters" don't "split" bottles, they sell decants through multiple web sites, from bottles they already own well ahead of time. It's a grey area with this one, and while I can appreciate occasionally purchasing a bottle ahead of a split being closed, doing this as a practice 365 days a year and offering one decant on Basenotes, is hardly in the spirit of "splitting" that the Basenotes Marketplace was set up for. I even have PMs from a certain splitter (don't worry, I'm not here to "out" anyone) who in very clear terms explained to me how he in fact does profit from his splits and it's a full time job for him (having access to wholesale pricing, listing bottles at normal MSRP). Hmmm.

    Having said that, I've started cleaning up my splits page and will trim it further over the next few days and weeks, and will concentrate on splitting only fragrances I feel are great, and will no longer host splits of fragrances I don't care for but have run anyway to help those who wanted to try them without committing to a large bottle. Running and managing these splits takes upwards of 30 hours a week of my time, and countless hours driving to the post office and UPS almost daily. The wear and tear on my car, gas money, etc, is not even included in these splits. I've been happily running these splits because it was fun, but it's less fun when people start fighting over stupidly trivial things... especially when those are offered to them as a free service that costs them nothing in return. Not even gratitude, as few bother to even say "thank you" (and to those who do, THANK YOU!!).

    Go ahead, knock yourself out, feel free to run these splits. I've cleared the following bottles from my list today and will clear more as time allows. To anyone who was on any of these splits - I've sent you all PMs to let you know. I apologize it's coming to this. Let's have some young grasshoppers run some splits and see how it works out for them.

    - Tom Ford Tuscan Leather
    - Tom Ford Neroli Portofino
    - Tom Ford Plum Japonais
    - Roja Dove Vetiver Extrait
    - Roja Dove Neroli Extrait
    - Roja Dove Bergamot Extrait
    - Ermenegildo Zegna Italian Bergamot
    - Ermenegildo Zegna Indonesian Oud
    - Slumberhouse Sova
    - Slumberhouse Pear & Olive
    - Creed Millesime Imperial
    - Creed Royal Exclusives White Flowers
    - Armani Privé Encens Satin
    - Phaedon Black Vetiver
    - Phaedon Tabac Rouge
    - LM Parfums Epine Mortelle
    - Xerjoff Gao
    - Profumum Roma Patchouly
    - Profumum Roma Acqua e Zucchero
    - Profumum Roma Antico Caruso
    - Ramón Béjar Wild Oud
    - Frapin Caravelle Epicee
    - Hermes Vetiver Tonka
    - Maison Francis Kurkdjian OUD
    - Maison Francis Kurkdjian Masculin Pluriel
    - Maison Francis Kurkdjian Aqua Universalis Forte
    - Guerlain Derby
    - Guerlain L'Âme d'Un Héros
    - Guerlain - L'Art et la Matiere, Tonka Imperiale
    - Mona di Orio Oudh Osmanthus
    - Mona di Orio Lux
    - Frederic Malle Portrait of a Lady
    - Montale Intense Cafe
    - Anat Fritz Tzora

    All remaining Creed bottles - when they close, they close, I will not run those again. They are all yours as well.

  24. #24

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Here are my 2 cents as a newbie. I would rather have the split hosted by someone who has done. It before and has a good track record of doing it

    Nothing against someone hosting it for the first time but chances are I would not participate


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  25. #25
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Nothing in set in stone, we will look over the split rules once again to see if they need to be amended but I think the basic rules that we have established work well enough.

    There is a reason why new splitters are only allowed to run ONE split at a time, so we can see how things work out, while they build their reputation and get enough Feedback points until they have enough points to run multiple splits. Youssif was qualified to run a split of one bottle, and he was certainly allowed to charge a small amount for his time. He decided to not go through with the split, so can we close that part of the discussion?

    The current splitters are doing a fantastic service for the community, and the number of splits being offered are staggering. Splitting multiple bottles of the same fragrance is allowed, and sometimes the same fragrance is being offered by several splitters. That's also allowed. The reason that remik and others are offering the same fragrances over and over is because they are pestered with requests to do so. If anyone else wants to split Aventus, just go ahead and set up a split thread. You will soon be in business.

    Also, go look in the split request thread; there are lots of requests that none on the current splitters have responded to, and what about someone splitting a few feminine fragrances?

    There are lots of opportunities to jump in and do splits, so just do it! But make sure your pricing makes sense. Let that be the lesson of the day.
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  26. #26

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    And I won't even go into the secretive practices where no names are listed next to any splits, so that no one ever knows if these are real splits or someone selling decants, one at a time, because there's no way to prove otherwise. Some splitters cross-list the same bottles here, on eBay, Facebook fragrance groups, Crystal Flacon, etc. Doesn't that fly in the face of Basenotes rules where the bottle must be entirely spoken for before money is collected, bottle is ordered, etc? These "splitters" don't "split" bottles, they sell decants through multiple web sites, from bottles they already own well ahead of time. It's a grey area with this one, and while I can appreciate occasionally purchasing a bottle ahead of a split being closed, doing this as a practice 365 days a year and offering one decant on Basenotes, is hardly in the spirit of "splitting" that the Basenotes Marketplace was set up for. I even have PMs from a certain splitter (don't worry, I'm not here to "out" anyone) who in very clear terms explained to me how he in fact does profit from his splits and it's a full time job for him (having access to wholesale pricing, listing bottles at normal MSRP). Hmmm.
    I see this sentiment a lot and I'm wondering as a someone who participates in splits what the issue is. I know that there were legal issues a few years back and websites don't support this "reselling" of a bottle bought in advance, but it seems like other than a risk assumed by the splitter, the difference between selling decants and splitting is really semantics.

    In regards to those making a profit by buying wholesale, what is the issue there in terms of how it harms buyers? Sure it'd be great if this splitter offered wholesale pricing to us, but why is it an issue if the difference between wholesale and retail goes to him rather than neiman marcus or luckyscent or some other company?

    It seems like when you get down to it the real spirit of splitting is to allow people to try or buy fragrances for less than the (sometimes absurd) cost of a retail bottle, and both of the above listed issues do not interfere with that.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Remik, if you're referencing me cross-listing across multiple sites, yes I have them open in multiple places but not once have I pre-purchased a bottle. I'd be happy to provide lists of names from outside of Basenotes as well as contact info to confirm that not one have I pre-purchased a bottle before it was full. In fact, it's made my splits on other sites more difficult because most people just want to buy decants and not wait for it to fill.

    That said, I completely agree splitting is a thankless job and there are many participants out there, some here and many, many more off Basenotes who screw with us, waste time, don't bother to say thank you, don't leave rep here, etc. and it's frustrating. I do know some splitters are nefarious and try to make a profit off this, it's unfortunate but some do it.

    I understand there are lots and lots of requests for the same things over and over again so it's a bit of a rock and hard place situation for people like you who split here so much because if you don't offer it, perhaps no one else will. But at the same time, if someone else does want to offer it, the opportunity is essentially not there since, let's be honest, having two splits of the same bottle in the same location only shoots each other in the foot. I don't know what the solution is, I can only tell you I've logged in here probably hundreds of times over the past couple of years looking to offer a split only to see someone else have it open and elected not to step on their toes and allow theirs to fill.
    Last edited by fitch256; 8th March 2015 at 05:06 PM.
    Splits!

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    It's just common sense that there should be one split of one fragrance in one geographical location at any one time, IMO. :shrug:

    Thanks remik for splitting! Don't get discouraged and give up just because of this.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Just wanted to add, I'm not calling you out on anything Remik, believe me I know how hard it is to run these splits and deal with the few clowns who screw everything up for everyone and end up costing you $ - I'm currently dealing with it in another split myself. It's a difficult situation because you're right, someone who's new to splitting may not understand what they're getting into and not know the level of commitment required to complete a split. So, it's definitely a rock and a hard place situation, and worth discussing further in the community.
    Splits!

    Tom Ford - Patchouli Absolu --------> http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...tchouli-Absolu

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Noblet View Post
    I see this sentiment a lot and I'm wondering as a someone who participates in splits what the issue is. I know that there were legal issues a few years back and websites don't support this "reselling" of a bottle bought in advance, but it seems like other than a risk assumed by the splitter, the difference between selling decants and splitting is really semantics.
    The legal issues didn't go away. The site can be sued for allowing the sale of decants. However small the distinctions are between selling a decant or a split portion, in this case the semantics matter.
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  31. #31

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Since, no one really corrected youssif math errors. I'll do it. Yousiff, lets take ur 100 ml example of $1.56/ ml x 100= $156 for the cost. Remik charges $158 for the family/friendly options and that give Remik a $2 profit per 100 ml, which gives 5 x 2= $10 profit per bottle for Remik. What i think u are doing is adding ur own estimated cost ($70) to Remik own costs + paypal fees, which is like doubling the cost, hence the large profit u calculated. Assume Remik sells five 100 ml bottles, he earns 158-142= $16, 16 x 5= $80 for all 5 bottles but that excludes costs and shipping fee. Ur $70 estimated cost was fairly accurate but u added extra revenues and forgot about the paypal fees which means Remik makes $10 per 500 ml bottle if ur cost is right. Hope this is not too confusing.

  32. #32

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    The legal issues didn't go away. The site can be sued for allowing the sale of decants. However small the distinctions are between selling a decant or a split portion, in this case the semantics matter.
    I'm unclear on this still. I know there were threats made and that eBay made a decision to disallow decants, but that hardly means that there is a basis for a lawsuit. Do you have any more information on this? Possibly actual lawsuits filed and their result? I read Grant's post from 2007 but every point made would apply equally to splits, so I don't understand why only one is disallowed.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by shindouhikaru888 View Post
    Since, no one really corrected youssif math errors. I'll do it. Yousiff, lets take ur 100 ml example of $1.56/ ml x 100= $156 for the cost. Remik charges $158 for the family/friendly options and that give Remik a $2 profit per 100 ml, which gives 5 x 2= $10 profit per bottle for Remik.
    It's entirely possible this is not profit and instead it's that he's forced to pay sales tax. Having lived in Southern California for a period of time, it can be very hard to buy things without getting charged tax, even if it is bought online.
    Splits!

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  34. #34
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    The legal issues didn't go away. The site can be sued for allowing the sale of decants. However small the distinctions are between selling a decant or a split portion, in this case the semantics matter.
    Which countries laws are causing this issue? I would imagine this would be the same problem for the decant / sample sites like Surrender to Chance for example, which resides in the US.
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  35. #35
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by fitch256 View Post
    It's entirely possible this is not profit and instead it's that he's forced to pay sales tax. Having lived in Southern California for a period of time, it can be very hard to buy things without getting charged tax, even if it is bought online.
    fitch256 and all,

    First - the "math" as presented by Youssif9 is full of assumptions and throwing random numbers at the cost of the bottle, before splitting the cost of it, and is not based on actual cost of the fragrance + materials + shipping. His $2 discrepancy is hardly my "profit" - he just simply didn't know what I actually paid for boxes, plastic zip bags, bubble-wrap bags, bubble wrap, custom labels, 100ml bottles, shipping, etc. Cost of those 100ml bottles, in particular, has been a bit crazy for about 6 months, as all wholesalers were out of stock for a long time, which resulted in me having to purchase smaller numbers of them from other sources, even eBay at one point, just to have some 100ml bottles in stock. Some of these 100ml bottles are back in stock now at reasonable prices, but for a while I've been paying over $11.50/bottle, while charging you guys only about ~$3.50 for it - in effect eating about $8 on each 100ml split portion. I didn't say anything because, well, who cares, I'm not exactly crying for money, and there aren't that many people buying 100ml portions to make a big dent in my pocket. Then you also have the higher cost of shipping 100ml bottles than 15ml or 25ml decants, which Youssif9 apparently didn't calculate in his "math." So that $2 was in fact not even covering my cost of materials, I did not get to keep $2 on each 100ml split as he's assuming.

    Second - fitch256... I don't know you, and I wasn't specifically referencing you when I wrote my comments above. I don't recall ever doing any business with you, swaps, buys, sells, or splits, so I have no idea how you operate. You sound like an honest person and I'm a firm believer in giving people the benefit of the doubt rather than assuming the worst right at the beginning of getting to know one. So for all I know, you may be one of the good guys here (and yes, there are many others), but there are - unfortunately - a number of bad apples that make participating on BN sometimes more pain and misery than fun and enjoyment and enriching one's knowledge and appreciation for fragrances. I don't see this as much in other forums I participate in... Perhaps it's the price point of entry - Basenotes in the grand schema of things is a forum where anyone with any budget can participate easily - most people with even minimum wage can afford to spring for samples, splits, and/or bottles of fragrances every now and then. Some other forums I participate (high-end Swiss watches, AV gear, cars, boats, etc) rarely have people with less than 8-digit net worth participating in them, where we drop $100K+ on a watch like some of us on BN drop $300 on an Amouage bottle. Those forums attract drastically different user base, and it shows in the overall level of civility, respect, and common appreciation for the objects being discussed. Basenotes sometimes feels like a playground with a bunch of bullies running around, bullies who have peaked in high-school (watch the Rob Low "peaked in high school" commercial - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCPKLcM_O2Q ), rather than a more sophisticated bunch of people with deeper appreciation for the smelly things around us.

    Third -
    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    Now remik, since you have so many splits open one might wonder how do you have this much time?
    It takes 3-5 hours to do a split and get it shipped, and since you have so many going it doesn't really sound like you have time for a typical job.
    You're absolutely right. I do not have a typical job. I'm a business owner and investor, I do not work Monday to Friday, 9 to 5. I own multiple businesses and investments that make money for me, I do not have to be at the office every day - or at all, if I don't feel like it or have scheduled meetings. I could "retire" and not lift a finger for the rest of my life and still pass on significant amount of money to my heirs and to charities, but... I'm barely 40. I can't sit idle for the next 50 years - that would be incredibly boring to me. Fragrances are one of my passions and lately I've dedicated an enormous amount of time to it. It's not exactly taking away from my "job". My job does not equal to flipping burgers 8 hours a day - which is why I can spend the time I do on running splits and doing what I enjoy the most. At least for the time being. One day this fascination with fragrances will die down, I'm sure, and I will find some other hobby to keep me busy. But for now - this is where I am and this is what I enjoy doing.

    Fourth -
    Quote Originally Posted by Youssif9 View Post
    I'm and engineering student [...]
    Oh dear. You'd think math would be the one area where you should have it down pat already, with eyes closed, no calculators to help you. I'm sorry to hear you haven't mastered at least that before going into engineering.


    And lastly - after thinking about it for a while and receiving over 200 supportive PMs and emails since my last post (yes, it's been a busy couple of days), I've decided that BN bullies are not going to take away from my enjoyment of what I like doing and my appreciation for fragrances in general. So to you, I say good luck in your splitting ventures. As the moderators have already indicated - you are free to run any splits you want, including JdA. If people want to participate in your splits despite zero feedbacks, your only posts being in this thread, and marking up your splits by $32/each "for profit", then so be it. Let the people vote with their wallets and their actions. To that effect, and based on a few requests and inquiries as to why these have been cancelled, I will at some point re-list at least some of the splits I've cancelled. You are more than welcome to open your own splits and use your own math to figure out the pricing - no one is going to stop you. I'm moving on, and will attempt to restrain myself from participating in any threads that only fry brain cells, instead of stimulating them.

    Best of luck to you,

    Remik
    Last edited by remik; 9th March 2015 at 08:03 PM. Reason: Corrected for typos and "8-digit" reference.

  36. #36

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    Some other forums I participate (high-end Swiss watches, AV gear, cars, boats, etc) rarely have people with less than 10-digit net worth participating in them, where we drop $100K+ on a watch like some of us on BN drop $300 on an Amouage bottle.
    I agree with your post, but this part caught my attention. 10 digits? There are forums full of billionaires?

  37. #37
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Oooops, sorry... I meant 10 as in $10M+, which is in fact 8 digits.
    Last edited by remik; 9th March 2015 at 08:05 PM.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Agreed on basically everything, Remik. Frankly, the OP was so dumb after a paragraph that I stopped reading anything related to it and skipped to some of the other topics brought up here, so I'll defer to your claim that his split math was somewhere on Mars. Very nice of you to take the hit on the atomizer price difference. That's always one of the things new splitters tend not to realize, price fluctuations occur frequently, especially in an operation like splitting that requires putting together a lot of moving parts. Not accounting for this can end up screwing over a lot of people in the end.
    Splits!

    Tom Ford - Patchouli Absolu --------> http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...tchouli-Absolu

  39. #39

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    Oooops, sorry... I meant 10 as in $10M+, which is in fact 8 digits.
    That makes more sense. I was picturing some secret forum full of the wealthiest of the wealthy haha.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Haa haa... well, there used to be the Netropolitan Club at $9000 to join + $3000/year, labeled "the Facebook for the rich and famous" but... it didn't get too far. I personally believe their marketing killed it - it was a good concept, but the execution... was terrible, and did not appeal to me or anyone else I know. It was way too cheesy with its 80's style big-hair and fake private jets advertising. They should have gone for the restraint and 'private club' feel where you have to be invited to participate, instead - with no fake "look at me, I'm rich!" ads. Take a cue from American Express Centurion card (aka: Black Amex). The people who have the means know about it and have it in their wallets, but the general public only hears fantasy tales, most of them vastly inaccurate. And it works.

  41. #41

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by fitch256 View Post
    It's entirely possible this is not profit and instead it's that he's forced to pay sales tax. Having lived in Southern California for a period of time, it can be very hard to buy things without getting charged tax, even if it is bought online.
    I think u understood what i was trying to say, but i'll say it again to play it safe. What i did was that i applied the assumption of yousiff $70 estimated cost to Remik prices, so i'm not saying Remik is profiting, rather i am supporting him. That being said, i doubt remik even profit at all and even if there's a few dollars profit, it is fair to prevent losses.

    Yousiff, if u think Remik is doing business and earns profit, u should price urs at $3/ ml and it will be equivalent of what Remik is doing. From what u are charging, u are bagging $49 profit more than Remik if u sold 2 100 ml bottle and 1 50 ml bottle because that ends up to be $799.

  42. #42
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Noblet View Post
    I'm unclear on this still. I know there were threats made and that eBay made a decision to disallow decants, but that hardly means that there is a basis for a lawsuit. Do you have any more information on this? Possibly actual lawsuits filed and their result? I read Grant's post from 2007 but every point made would apply equally to splits, so I don't understand why only one is disallowed.
    The law is unclear. A big company could initiate a lawsuit anyway, knowing that it's not going to go anywhere, but they could sustain the case simply to drain resources and money from the site.

    Do you remember the case a few years ago when Bond no. 9 threatened to drag a small niche company to court because they used the word "peace" in the name of one of their fragrances? Bond claimed that was an infringement on their rights, since they had a fragrance called "Scent of Peace". It was a case without merit but the niche company chose to back off because of all the legal fees involved in picking a fight with Bond. They simply didn't have the resources.

    Even though the difference between decant and split portion is not that big, it seems to be enough to keep the site out of trouble with some very litigious companies.
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  43. #43

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by furrypine View Post
    The law is unclear. A big company could initiate a lawsuit anyway, knowing that it's not going to go anywhere, but they could sustain the case simply to drain resources and money from the site.
    So if this is the only problem, is there really an issue with the aforementioned "splits" hint hint wink wink as long as they aren't advertised as sales of decants? remik appears to believe so, though he ignored my question of what exactly his issue with it is. At least I know how rich he is now, though.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I still don't see how this would be an issue for a forum which only facilitates this and does not participate in the actual sale. It looks like the move specifically at basenotes was a preemptive decision based on eBay, which is an entirely different situation. Let's be honest here: a forum with this level of activity is not going to get sued. There just arent enough transactions here to make it even close to be worth their time.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Nevertheless, if Grant doesn't want to take the chance, that is his right.
    Join us in discussing Penhaligon's newest feminine, Ostara, a daffodil soliflore by Bertrand Duchafour
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/403...74#post3474074

    We also still have room in our Penhaligon's Trade Routes Sample Pass--sign up now!
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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    Nevertheless, if Grant doesn't want to take the chance, that is his right.
    Exactly. This is Grant's site and if does not feel comfortable calling it or offering decants, this is his right to do so.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Noblet View Post
    So if this is the only problem, is there really an issue with the aforementioned "splits" hint hint wink wink as long as they aren't advertised as sales of decants? remik appears to believe so, though he ignored my question of what exactly his issue with it is.
    I didn't ignore it - I thought it was a rhetorical question... If one participates in BN Marketplace, I am assuming they've read the rules and understand how the process works and what is and is not allowed to be sold or split. And it's not up to me to dictate Basenotes rules - that's up to Grant and his team. If they don't want to facilitate the sale of one-off decants, that is entirely up to them, not up to me. These rules are already spelled out as stickies at the top of all BN Marketplace forums.

    Quote Originally Posted by Charles_Noblet View Post
    At least I know how rich he is now, though.
    Well good for you. ;-)

  47. #47

    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by remik View Post
    I didn't ignore it - I thought it was a rhetorical question... If one participates in BN Marketplace, I am assuming they've read the rules and understand how the process works and what is and is not allowed to be sold or split. And it's not up to me to dictate Basenotes rules - that's up to Grant and his team. If they don't want to facilitate the sale of one-off decants, that is entirely up to them, not up to me. These rules are already spelled out as stickies at the top of all BN Marketplace forums.
    Sorry, I thought your issue was more an ethical one. Of course if it is against the rules, it's against the rules. It just seems strange that one would be banned and another encouraged despite the only real difference being that you prepay for one.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by PalmBeach View Post
    Exactly. This is Grant's site and if does not feel comfortable calling it or offering decants, this is his right to do so.
    I was just trying to understand from someone who may know more than me what the reasoning was between the different treatment of such similar practices. But I suppose if it was an executive decision, only Grant can answer.

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Not sure why this thread is still open if Youssif9 doesn't even wan't to do a split anymore....... sorry for being the party pooper here guys,

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    Default Re: [US/CAN] Creed Jardin d'Amalfi

    Quote Originally Posted by Poohdini View Post
    Not sure why this thread is still open if Youssif9 doesn't even wan't to do a split anymore....... sorry for being the party pooper here guys,
    The thread took on a life of its own
    And it was kept open to give people a chance to clarify a couple of issues, but I think we are at a point where we can soon close it.
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