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  1. #1
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Lexicography


    <WARNING: this post includes language that some may find offensive. If you likely to be offended by such language, please either skip this thread or, alternatively, just get over it>


    Well, my rose thread is trapped on a Huddler server (and Grant's laptop, I guess) for now, so I thought I'd start a spin off thread. A flanker if you like.

    Just until the other one comes back (I hope it comes back - I put a lot of effort into it and didn't make a backup!)

    ----o----

    When we left off, I had been deep-diving some rose soliflors and posting my thoughts on them, and had some great input and advice from several awesome fellow Basenoters.

    I got into this rose odyssey because I had tried Malle's Une Rose, and it opened a door to a new, rose-tinted world for me. I wanted more. I hit Lutens Sa Majeste La Rose next, then Perfumers Workshop Tea Rose, and still have a bunch more lined up. I'll dump a few more into the rose thread when it comes back. All soliflors so far. And the next ones to come will probably be the Caron, Guerlain, and Creed ones.

    After my rosepiphany, I wanted to try as many rosefumes as I could get my hands on. Soft and innocent, earthy and grounded, rich and opulent, crunch green and Gaian, dark and sexy - this flower could do seemingly do anything, and still remain a rose. I wanted to explore her range and try to figure out how she does it.

    But I didn’t want to mess around with any half-assed roses, at least not at first. Know what I mean?

    I didn’t want a rose that’s part of an ensemble cast with a chypre accord, or lounging on an oriental base, or, god forbid, butched up with a patchouli / cumin / whatever man-note to make it dude-friendly.

    No – I wanted a no-bullshit rose, a rose that doesn’t share the stage with anything else.




    In other words, I guess I wanted a rose soliflor?


    ----o----


    Let's see ...

    From French Wikipedia:
    Un soliflore peut désigner :
    • en art floral, un vase destiné à ne contenir qu’une tige de fleur ;
    • en parfumerie, un parfum avec une unique dominante florale.

    So, either a vase, or “in perfumery, a perfume with a single dominant floral.” OK – that seems pretty simple.

    But that doesn’t quite capture what I’m talking about. The "no-bullshit rose" is a more specific. It’s a perfume that creates a single olfactory image - that of a rose, of course.

    Now that could be a photorealistic image of a rose. Do a headspace analysis of an actual rose and recreate it, and you’ll get a photographic NBS.

    A good perfumer can get close using his nose – maybe equivalent to a naturalist painting?




    But a great perfumer can go beyond naturalism. He can create an image of a rose that doesn't exist in nature, an abstract, or impressionistic one, maybe a surreal one?




    At least for now, I wanted to find perfumes that tell me a story about a rose, but I don’t mind if it takes liberties, embellished the facts a little. Or a lot. It can be a work of fiction – I’ll probably prefer that, in fact.

    It might use a "truffle accord" to sketch the damp, loamy earth the rose is rooted in. It might use citronella to suggest the crunchy green vegetality of the plant. Who knows?

    It can use whatever, as long as those whatevers support the cause - help to tell the story of the rose, without trying to make the story about themselves. I know this is very subjective.


    For future reference:
    No-bullshit rose: a perfume that is composed to create an olfactory portrait of a rose that may or may not be realistic

    Bullshit rose: by extension, a rose-prominant perfume that is not a no-bullshit rose. E.g. a rose chypre, a rosiental, a manrose, etc.

    Rosiental: a perfume with a recognizable rose note lounging suggestively on an oriental base

    Manrose: a rose perfume that butches up the rose enough so that a civilian guy can wear it without feeling like he’s wearing lipstick

    Brose: a manrose that appeals to the bros




    Well, that was a bit of a ramble. What was the point?

    I wonder how other people define a soliflor. What makes the difference between a rose soliflor and a rose perfume that is not a soliflor?
    Last edited by rubegon; 31st October 2013 at 06:53 PM. Reason: tweaks and typos
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    It seems you are in for sampling Or et Noir (dark rose and Caron's marron glacé accord) plus the Extrait of Amouage Lyric for sure.
    I agree with your definition of soliflor. I would not want to have too much interference from a chypre accord or sharing the scene with patchouli etc. like you mentioned. Another example in the jasmine field is Jasmin by Maitre Parfumeur et Gantier, which surprisingly to me gets no love at all, where jasmine is flankered by castoreum and notes to accentuate slightly the green side of jasmine.

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    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    In fact, I have a decant of the Caron coming already! I still need to find a sample of the Amouage. I was just in Dubai last month - I should have tested it there!

    They also have 3 rose attars that are not exported to the US. A Ta'if rose and 2 others. I just wasn't interested in them at the time. I did get the ambergris attar, though.
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  4. #4

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Ambergris attar.... sounds wonderful!
    If all sources fail, let me know about the Extrait!

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    l agree with your definition of soliflore rubegon, & l like your subcategories also!

    Looking forward to the continuation of this interesting discussion.

    Have you thought of including any Montales in your research? Two come to my mind; Crystal Flowers; a No-BS rose, & Roses Musk; more of a BS rose.

    l also thought of Costes & Lumiere Noire pour Femme; two more BS roses.

    And what about the more humble Stella; on paper it sounds like a BS rose, but l get very little BS from it.
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Soliflor: Rosenlust (never tried though)
    We want a niche forum.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Highness Rose by Montale from their confidential collection is a wonderful rose soliflor
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Oh what a great post/thread Rubegon. Discussions like this are what makes Basenotess a great place. Need to dash now but I'll be back......

  9. #9

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Not all roses smell the same and even 'soliflores' are accords

    I have never seen a fragrance with one note listed only

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Good definition. Of course, there will be a grey area between the bs rose and other genres (oriental, chypre, etc).

    Unlike you, however, I tend to prefer more complex perfumes than soliflores. Tania Sanchez said that (what you call no bs) roses should be judged by a panel of bees, not by perfume critics. I think that few flowers, if any, could stand alone as a proper perfumes, and these because of complexity: tuberose, gardenia, perhaps (debatable) narcissus. The others, good as they may be upon smelling, probably need something more to sustain the interest. (and then of course there are the flowers that should appear as little as possible, if not at all: linden, freesia, peony, etc)

    cacio

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    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by Larimar View Post
    Ambergris attar.... sounds wonderful!
    If all sources fail, let me know about the Extrait!
    It's amazing stuff. It has the consistency of honey and smells softly of driftwood, warm skin, and the sea. Not a fragrance really - I plan to play around with layering it with some rose perfumes later, once I figure out which seem like they'll benefit from it.

    Thanks! Not even the decant sites seem to have Lyric Woman parfum. I'll check out a few more possible sources, and let you know if I get desperate.

    Quote Originally Posted by teardrop View Post
    l agree with your definition of soliflore rubegon, & l like your subcategories also!

    Looking forward to the continuation of this interesting discussion.

    Have you thought of including any Montales in your research? Two come to my mind; Crystal Flowers; a No-BS rose, & Roses Musk; more of a BS rose.

    l also thought of Costes & Lumiere Noire pour Femme; two more BS roses.

    And what about the more humble Stella; on paper it sounds like a BS rose, but l get very little BS from it.
    I wanted to try some Montales as well, but the range is so huge I didn't know where to start. I have Black Aoud, but that is clearly a BS rose. Hednic recommended Highness Rose, a Montale that is impossible to find, so that doesn't help me. I'll add those ^^^ 2 to my list, though. Thanks for the recs.

    Stella is by no means beneath me! I bought Tea Rose and tested it, after all. In fact, I already have a sample of Stella, although I haven't tested it yet. I want to try the Rose Absolute version too. That sounds like more of a good thing, and I'm tempted to just blind buy it.


    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Highness Rose by Montale from their confidential collection is a wonderful rose soliflor
    I'm sure it is, but I can't get my hands on it. Or are you volunteering to send me a sample? ;-)

    Do you know if it is still available in Paris? My wife is going there soon, and if they have it at the boutique, I may ask her to get me a bottle.


    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Good definition. Of course, there will be a grey area between the bs rose and other genres (oriental, chypre, etc).

    Unlike you, however, I tend to prefer more complex perfumes than soliflores. Tania Sanchez said that (what you call no bs) roses should be judged by a panel of bees, not by perfume critics. I think that few flowers, if any, could stand alone as a proper perfumes, and these because of complexity: tuberose, gardenia, perhaps (debatable) narcissus. The others, good as they may be upon smelling, probably need something more to sustain the interest. (and then of course there are the flowers that should appear as little as possible, if not at all: linden, freesia, peony, etc)

    Don't get me wrong cacio. I have love enough for all kinds of roses - I'm no soliflor fundamentalist. I just started with rose soliflores because I was so unfamiliar with the note that I wanted to start simple, to get to know the note in relative isolation before trying to see it in the context of a more complex composition.

    And I agree that the scent of a rose alone, while beautiful, would be very boring to wear as a perfume.

    But I think TS's comment applies to a more limited definition of a soliflore - the ones that are essentially olfactory photographs of a flower.

    The "NBS rose" category encompasses perfumes that can be more abstract, but are still portraits of the flower - like the Dali up there ^^^^^. The Malle and Lutens ones I've tried are solid NBS roses to me, but they are by no means slavish headspace clones of the scent of a fresh rose. They are carefully constructed to present the rose in a very unique and distinct ways. They don't smell like fresh roses, and yet both are 100% about a certain kind of rose.

    The NBS rose can have many notes that are not in the scent of a real rose or it's extracts, but those notes must serve the purpose of depicting a certain kind of rose or a rose in a certain context. That allows a lot of room for development, stylistic variety, and artistic freedom.


    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    Not all roses smell the same and even 'soliflores' are accords

    I have never seen a fragrance with one note listed only
    I think you either misunderstood or didn't read all of my post? Nothing I said contradicts anything you're saying here. I'm happy to discuss, but I don't understand your point.


    Quote Originally Posted by Foustie View Post
    Oh what a great post/thread Rubegon. Discussions like this are what makes Basenotess a great place. Need to dash now but I'll be back......
    Thank you dear! I'm going old-school basenotes style, despite my limited knowledge and olfactory powers. I'm hoping to coax some of the people that actually know their stuff to come out even if just to set me straight.


    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Towers View Post
    Soliflor: Rosenlust (never tried though)
    That sounds like a really good NBS rose! It's all natural and has only 7 ingredients. I haven't tried it either but it has been recommended to me several times now. I need to find a sample somewhere.
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    "Brose" nearly made me spit out my tea.

    For me, the difference between a rose soliflor and a non-soliflor is the strong presence of anything but rose. Lipstick Rose is a really good rose, but it's not a soliflor because of the violet. The Afternoon of a Faun uses rose beautifully, but in a supporting role.

    I was just thinking about applying the same categories to other flowers, like tuberose:

    No bullshit tuberose: Beyond Love
    Bullshit tuberose: Loretta
    Tuberosiental: Amarige?
    Mantuberose: Vierges et Toreros
    Tuberbrose: Tubereuse Criminelle?
    Currently wearing: Mitsouko by Guerlain

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    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    "Brose" nearly made me spit out my tea.

    For me, the difference between a rose soliflor and a non-soliflor is the strong presence of anything but rose. Lipstick Rose is a really good rose, but it's not a soliflor because of the violet. The Afternoon of a Faun uses rose beautifully, but in a supporting role.

    I was just thinking about applying the same categories to other flowers, like tuberose:

    No bullshit tuberose: Beyond Love
    Bullshit tuberose: Loretta
    Tuberosiental: Amarige?
    Mantuberose: Vierges et Toreros
    Tuberbrose: Tubereuse Criminelle?
    Now there's a thought! I think jasmine would be pretty easy, but I'd be at a loss for for tuberose. I'd say another NBS tuberose would have to be Fracas. But I can't be sure, because anything that I detect tuberose in just becomes a TUBEROSE!

    I need to build up my tolerance to the flower.

    Yep - Lipstick Rose is a nice BS rose. I have a sample around here somewhere.

    I just ordered samples of Annick Goutal Rose Absolue - that should be as NBS as and NBS rose can get!
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    I am wondering if you take other performance indicators into consideration as important for your quest for a soliflore. I think more perfumers do not create soliflores partly because of structural limitations: there is no way to make a really long-lasting rose perfume without some base notes (fixatives) that then add another dimension to the perfume. Hence, the orientals and chypres (resins and oakmoss are all fixatives).

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    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by Maque View Post
    I am wondering if you take other performance indicators into consideration as important for your quest for a soliflore. I think more perfumers do not create soliflores partly because of structural limitations: there is no way to make a really long-lasting rose perfume without some base notes (fixatives) that then add another dimension to the perfume. Hence, the orientals and chypres (resins and oakmoss are all fixatives).
    Performance is not a concern at all for me. I'm not looking to walk around smelling like a rose all day. ;-)

    I'm more interested in finding creative and interesting rose soliflores that go beyond the simple formula of "smell as much like a blooming rose as possible for as long as possible". Tea Rose nails that one - check.

    There are some rose-ish synthetics that can keep the rose going for very long times. Tea Rose is proof of that. But again, that's not a very interesting soliflore.

    Imagine a perfume that captures the life of a rose, start to finish. It starts dewey watery green, moves into full bloom, and then slowly withers and fades leaving the smell of dried petals and autumn in the air. That would be a great soliflore.
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Yaaarg. This thread has been stuck in my head like a persistent tune.

    Okey dokey, well, I've read and digested all of your ideas, and the responses. I maybe have a wee few ideas too.

    First, to dispense with this one; Crabtree and Evelyn Rosewater Eau Fraiche.First of all can I say that it's far more robust than the airy fairy name suggests. It's a really good simple straightforward rose soliflore. Use it like an Eau de Cologne. But you commented that your Tea Rose nailed the rose in bloom, so you might not be looking for this. It is very much worthy of a mention though.

    Next up, yes, Une Rose. I have had this for a long time. It is a fantastic fragrance no doubt about it, and it deserves to be a major player in your odyssey. I wore it a lot at one point but then I began to find it very sweet, intense, jammy and liquer like, and all just a bit too, well, domineering. I have no doubt that will appeal to some folk though.

    The Rosine's. Do get the sample pack if you haven't already. Yes, some of them will come into your BS roses category, but the rose is smack bang in the centre of each and every one. There are green roses and sea spray roses, red roses and spicy roses, and it would be terrific to have you go through each of them and post your thoughts.

    Now, years ago, I was in Palma, Majorca and I found Adolfo Dominguez "Noche de Rosas". I loved it. I've always loved a rose and this was lovely, very natural, calm, ethereal, not sweet, nothing obvious to distract from the rose. There is also an Agua de Rosas and Agua Fresca de Rosas in the same range. Years later I discovered that the Perfumer who made it is Ramon Monegal. Recently I tracked the Noche down on a Spanish website (very cheap) and sadly, unless my nose, or my memory, are playing tricks, it's not the same. If you could get an older one it would be worth trying.

    Speaking of Ramon Monegal. There is a beautiful rose in his collection. Ramon Monegal L'Eau de Rose. I love this one. It is a cold rose and crystal clear, no sweeteness at all , a bit synthetic photorealistic, minimalist. This range divides opinion. Not everyone likes the spare style, often underpinned by synthetic woods. But I think that the rose is a little shiny beacon. Try to sample this one if you can?

    Caron has been mentioned previously, but there is a little Caron rose, Delire de Roses which I think is terrific, and so underrated, as it doesn;t seem to have been well received. I think that it is a must try for you, given your brief. It is a contemporary rose, a bit watery (by design I think), sheer (but not weak), limpid maybe. It is natural but not simple, and very clever. I had some samples from 'im up there ^^^^ and I thought that it was delightful.

    I have the Kurkdjian, Lumiere Noir, the femme, but I would have had either. Have you tried those? Is that too much of a BS rose? It's not really IMO. It's the rose that drifts around on wearing it.

    So there's my tuppenceworth. I know that I have another rose in my head but I can't find it, a rose that struck me as having all the stages of development of a rose as you describe above. I intend to hang around though so if I remember I'll pop back in. I don' t know the Amouage roses but they seem rated, and I look forward to hearing about them. I agreed with Teardop] about Stella, rose, enhanced by smoked amber. I haven't smelled it for years though but it was lovely when it launched.
    Last edited by Foustie; 31st October 2013 at 06:46 PM. Reason: Typos!! More typos and spelling errors!

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    No input other than to say "Brose" really cracked me up!



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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    No input other than to say "Brose" really cracked me up!
    Ha Ha. Me too! Why no input............ ? Aw, go on.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Now there's a thought! I think jasmine would be pretty easy, but I'd be at a loss for for tuberose. I'd say another NBS tuberose would have to be Fracas. But I can't be sure, because anything that I detect tuberose in just becomes a TUBEROSE!
    I thought about Fracas as a NBS tuberose too, but then I thought better of it: I do get a lot of orange blossom. And then I was thinking of an Orange Blossom categorization, but had to get to work.

    Thanks to this thread, I ordered samples of MFK Lumiere Noire Pour Femme, A Lab on Fire Rose Rebelle Respawn, and ELd'O Eau de Protection with my First in Fragrance order two days ago.

    By the way, I'm being lazy for not reading more carefully upstream, but did you try La Fille de Berlin? I don't think I've seen it mentioned, but it should be.
    Currently wearing: Mitsouko by Guerlain

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Did any of y'all see my pre-timewarp rose thread? I know Larimar jumped in on that one, but I think a lot of people missed it because I made the genius decision to give it a title that's in Latin. Here's the google cache version of it:

    http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=us

    So in that thread I was starting to explore rose perfumes and posting my impressions as I tried them, soliciting feedback, etc. That effort got me to consider what a soliflor is exactly. In the Edouard Flechier interview about Une Rose, he says that it's a soliflor, but it seemed very different to me than what I thought of as a soliflor.

    That's what got me on this track of thinking of soliflors in more than just a literal way. A perfume can still be a rose soliflor and yet contain molecules that no rose ever emitted.

    Anyway - when that thread rises from the grave, I'll continue posting my impressions about the perfumes I'm testing. I'm hoping this weekend, because I plan to do a clash of the titans: Caron Rose and Guerlain Nahema. It is time.



    In the meantime I started this thread to have a broader discussion of what a soliflor is. Can it be abstract? Am I getting too fanciful? Never mind BS roses - is the whole premise of this thread BS?

    I'll post the list of rose perfumes I've compiled for testing to date tonight and my thoughts about whether they are BS or NBS, and I'd love to hear anyone else's thoughts, arguments, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Foustie View Post
    Yaaarg. This thread has been stuck in my head like a persistent tune.

    Okey dokey, well, I've read and digested all of your ideas, and the responses. I maybe have a wee few ideas too.
    I hope that's a good thing, and not like the damn Miley Cyrus song my wife has hammered into my brain!

    I was hoping you'd have some ideas on the subject. And I wouldn't say "wee", but then you Scots have a proclivity for understatement, don't you?

    ---

    I've tried Une Rose, as mentioned above. Amazing piece of work, in my opinion. I haven't spent much time with it, as recounted in my other thread, but I have ordered a decant so I can give it more attention.

    The C&E sounds interesting. I'm interested even if it's a different kind of "rose in bloom forever" soliflore than Tea Rose. I'm not done with photographic soliflores by any means

    I've got a couple of Rosines on my list, but ordering the whole set isn't a bad idea. I'll look into it.

    I'll poke around to see if I can get something on the Spanish one.

    I have a sample of Delires de Roses parfum. I'll get to it on the other thread later. My first impression was definitely NBS, but as you say, a modern, watery one.

    I didn't know about the Kurk. I may have a sample lying around. I'll take a look.

    I have a sample of Stella, but want one of the Rose Absolute version.

    I just ordered a sample of the Amouage Lyric parfum, and have a decant of the EdP on the way as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    No input other than to say "Brose" really cracked me up!
    It would be a shame to have a thread about roses and not get some input from 30 Roses ....

    I have read a lot of your older posts on rose perfumes in my obsessive research on this little subjourney. I'd love your input - if not now, then maybe later?


    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    I thought about Fracas as a NBS tuberose too, but then I thought better of it: I do get a lot of orange blossom. And then I was thinking of an Orange Blossom categorization, but had to get to work.

    Thanks to this thread, I ordered samples of MFK Lumiere Noire Pour Femme, A Lab on Fire Rose Rebelle Respawn, and ELd'O Eau de Protection with my First in Fragrance order two days ago.

    By the way, I'm being lazy for not reading more carefully upstream, but did you try La Fille de Berlin? I don't think I've seen it mentioned, but it should be.
    Haven't tried La Fille de Berlin, but I agree - I think I need to.


    The hypothetical NBS rose I mentioned up there ^^^ got me to looking, and I found this:

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Rubegon, I am one who likes more literal roses...probably not your cup of tea. By far my favorites are:

    Bulgarian rose: Creed Fleur de Thé Rose Bulgare
    English rose, à la David Austin: C&E original Evelyn (not Evelyn Rose in either its earlier or current form)

    But I also love Diptyque L'Ombre Dans L'Eau-- maybe that's a "brose?"

    The most literal rose I've smelled is a bit too literal for even me to wear often, and that is Highness Rose.



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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    Rubegon, I am one who likes more literal roses...probably not your cup of tea. By far my favorites are:

    Bulgarian rose: Creed Fleur de Thé Rose Bulgare
    English rose, à la David Austin: C&E original Evelyn (not Evelyn Rose in either its earlier or current form)

    But I also love Diptyque L'Ombre Dans L'Eau-- maybe that's a "brose?"

    The most literal rose I've smelled is a bit too literal for even me to wear often, and that is Highness Rose.
    30R - I'm not really sure what type I like. My point is just that I think it makes sense to think of rose perfumes that are more conceptual as soliflores as well. I'm still trying to figure out what kinds of rose perfumes I like and want to own - some of which I might never wear as a personal fragrance.

    I thought Tea Rose was great, and will keep a bottle of it around from now on, I think. I won't wear it, at least not without layering it with something else. I might not wear any other literal rose soliflores either, but I'm hoping to find some that I love and will add to my collection.

    I tried the Diptyque in the new EdP formulation and the oil at Nordstrom recently, and took a sample of it. I liked it a lot, but I'm not sure I'd call it a soliflore. At first sniff, I considered it a BS rose, but sampling in a department store doesn't really count, so we'll see. I didn't think of it as a brose, but it might be a man rose. Do you think a typical (non-perfumista) guy would wear it?

    The Creed is another landmark one, as far as I can tell. I'm getting a largish decant of the old version, and I'll test it after the Guerlain and Caron ones.

    I'd love to try the Montale. hednic has done drive-bys on a couple of my threads now to name drop Highness Rose, but it seems to be completely unobtainable, and he never answers my questions about it. :-(
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  23. #23
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    How typical is typical? Guys looking for the Same Old Thing in a masculine fragrance won't, and with the new rounded Diptyque bottles that look less unisex than the old rectangular bottles did, I wonder if the average guy would bother to pick the tester up in the first place. My husband, however, likes L'Ombre Sans L'Eau.

    A few months ago I smelled the new edp and the edt at Saks; the current edt seemed weaker to me than what is in my older, rectangular bottle. Or maybe I'm just imagining it; I didn't have my bottle along for comparison, after all.

    The Perfume Shoppe used to carry Highness Rose at discount but it appears they have sold out, and I don't know of any other source. You could ask them if they are expecting to get it back in.



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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post

    I'd love to try the Montale. hednic has done drive-bys on a couple of my threads now to name drop Highness Rose, but it seems to be completely unobtainable, and he never answers my questions about it. :-(
    Sorry for not getting back to you. You can place an order or inquire at the Perfumeshoppe in Vancouver. They will be getting it back in stock soon. I provide the link below. Hope this helps. Apologize again for the tardy response.


    http://www.theperfumeshoppecanada.co...ntale10-01.htm
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Sorry for not getting back to you. You can place an order or inquire at the Perfumeshoppe in Vancouver. They will be getting it back in stock soon. I provide the link below. Hope this helps. Apologize again for the tardy response.


    http://www.theperfumeshoppecanada.co...ntale10-01.htm
    Thanks hednic! They even have a sample program. I've hear Montale has others in their exclusive line, but they only carry Highness Rose and Pure Gold, I guess. I wonder if they'll let me order 5x Highness Rose samples for the sample kit.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    How typical is typical? Guys looking for the Same Old Thing in a masculine fragrance won't, and with the new rounded Diptyque bottles that look less unisex than the old rectangular bottles did, I wonder if the average guy would bother to pick the tester up in the first place. My husband, however, likes L'Ombre Sans L'Eau.

    A few months ago I smelled the new edp and the edt at Saks; the current edt seemed weaker to me than what is in my older, rectangular bottle. Or maybe I'm just imagining it; I didn't have my bottle along for comparison, after all.

    The Perfume Shoppe used to carry Highness Rose at discount but it appears they have sold out, and I don't know of any other source. You could ask them if they are expecting to get it back in.

    Your husband is not a typical guy, and neither am I. What I call a "manrose" is a rose fragrance that a guy who isn't particularly into fragrance would consider wearing - Egoiste, Van Cleef and Arpels pour Homme. That sort of thing.

    I never heard of Diptyque before I got into fragrance, so I don't think I would have considered any of them. If I was typical back then, a typical guy needs clear marketing cues to know what he's supposed to wear.


    30R - do you grow roses? I've gotten interested in the actual flowers, and have a strip of landscaping where i wonder if I could pull off growing some roses. The local rose society is having their annual Fall rose show Saturday, and I'm dragging the family down there to see what kind of roses grow down here, and hopefully get an idea of whether this is feasible for me to take on.


    On Highness Rose - Perfume Shoppe shows it as a 100ml bottle, but I thought it was only sold in 50ml. Is it 100ml? Hednic or 30R - do you know for sure?
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Rubegon wrote

    Anyway - when that thread rises from the grave, I'll continue posting my impressions about the perfumes I'm testing. I'm hoping this weekend, because I plan to do a clash of the titans: Caron Rose and Guerlain Nahema. It is time.


    Sorry couldn't seem to copy in your post. But really looking forward to your and others thoughts on these two favorites.

    Wonderful thread.
    Always keep Ithaca on your mind. Cavafy

  27. #27

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quite a simple point really -- roses smell differently-- what genre of rose are you looking for?

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    ...
    30R - do you grow roses? I've gotten interested in the actual flowers, and have a strip of landscaping where i wonder if I could pull off growing some roses. The local rose society is having their annual Fall rose show Saturday, and I'm dragging the family down there to see what kind of roses grow down here, and hopefully get an idea of whether this is feasible for me to take on.


    On Highness Rose - Perfume Shoppe shows it as a 100ml bottle, but I thought it was only sold in 50ml. Is it 100ml? Hednic or 30R - do you know for sure?
    We do...we actually had 30 rose bushes (whence my name) but winter cold killed off some of them. Currently we have (including multiples-- we plant shrub roses in triangular groups of 3):

    • "Roseraie de L'Hay" (rugosa, great for landscaping)-- very fragrant, reminds me of Highness Rose with its spicy carnation note.This grows into a huge, tall/wide bush with abundant flowers, but stems are too short for picking as with all rugosas. No matter, the fragrance will waft through the air to you.

    Hybrid tea roses as follows; some we bought blind when we first moved here (a mistake if you love fragrant roses.)
    -- "Mister Lincoln." An excellent red rose, prize winner for disease resistance and scent, but you won't get a lot of roses. Plant more than one.
    -- "Chrysler Imperial"-- we had one of these at the house where I grew up. I never knew the name but after we bought our house, I searched for several years before successfully IDing it so as to plant it. This rose is one of the parents of Mister Lincoln. Gorgeous, velvety red petals, dark green foliage, amazing classic rose scent. I think if we ever plant more bushes to replace the ones that died, I might want more of this rose.
    -- "Double Delight"-- another prize winning scent, and quirky two-tone color. Beautiful shape. A great rose to cut.
    -- "Fragrant Plum" Amazing color and scent! Unfortunately it produces few roses and is weak and spindly as a bush. It was hybridized in Oregon so maybe it just doesn't like New England weather?
    -- "Full Sail" is a white sport of the pink rose, "New Zealand". It will be unmourned when it dies. We jokingly call it "Fabric Softener". Looks fine, but meh aroma.
    -- "Don Juan" Vigorous red rose bush-- that's it in my avatar. Not as scented as the others.
    -- "Midas Touch"-- intensely yellow but not as scented as we believed it to be when we bought it blind.
    -- "First Prize"-- Opens to a huge rose! Showy, but also not as scented as I would like. Bought it blind.

    We have also owned, in the past, "Elina" (beautiful yellow rose, not hardy enough for our winters, moderate pretty scent) and "John F. Kennedy" (mildly scented white rose, excellent for cutting, lasts a week in a vase, died after one year-- not cold hardy.)

    Were we to buy more hybrid teas, I would like "Eiffel Tower" (ruffly pink petals and great scent), and "Sweet Surrender" (boring pink color but amazing lemony/classic rose scent). "Pink Peace" is also excellent.

    David Austin roses as follows--
    -- "Abraham Darby"-- my favorite Austin. Exquisite scent, healthy, nicely shaped bushes, lots of flowers
    -- "Graham Thomas"-- my favorite yellow rose of any sort-- good sized bushes and lots of flowers, and I love the scent
    -- "Evelyn"-- the rose named by C&E, upon which their original eponymous rose scent is based-- gangly growth, a little paler than Abraham Darby. If you can only get one, choose Abraham Darby.
    -- "Gertrude Jekyll"-- extremely fragrant rose with an old rose scent, but the thorniest rose you will probably ever encounter. Must smell!

    If we were to buy another Austin, I would want "Pat Austin" to add variety in the color of our bushes. The two tone petals (orange on one side, yellow on the other) are beautiful, and I like the scent.

    The beauty of Austin is that he only grows fragrant roses, no exceptions. The bushes are shrubs and produce generously. Most are remontant (repeat flowering) but a few flower only once (like "Constance Spry".) The stems are slender, and in vases they make soft looking arrangements-- a very different look from that of hybrid tea rose arrangements.

    The only scent I loathe among the Austin roses is the so-called myrrh scent. In their catalog they clearly state which ones have the myrrh scent, which I suppose some people love-- we actually uprooted our 3 bushes of "Tamora" and threw them away, so vile did we find the odor. If you can get to a public rose garden, smell before buying!

    I did a blog post on raising roses, here:
    http://www.basenotes.net/entries/765...-raising-roses

    Adding this as an afterthought: There is a classic climber that you have to see and smell. The buds have a distinctive oval shape and the scent is also distinctive. "New Dawn". We had this in our yard where I grew up and I am always happy to see/smell it again in rose gardens.
    Last edited by 30 Roses; 1st November 2013 at 03:13 PM. Reason: corrected an error



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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    My mother and cousin would be quite interested (if they could read English, that is). They also love growing roses. Regrettably not just for the scent. Equally regrettably, I think they overwater them (they also have thirsty plants like gardenias), though luckily for them the soil is very stony and porous. Also for their luck, it almost never freezes, so roses always survive.

    Anyway, the most fragrant one in their lineup is a dark red Tuscan rose, I don't know the name of the variety, which smells very dark and deep, almost like rose syrup. They buy roses at a big store near Florence, which I think follows a model similar to David Austin (indeed, I believe they also sell these).
    http://www.rosebarni.it/

    cacio

  30. #30
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    We grow the very fragrant Damascena 'Kazanlik' , which smells like Ta'if rose oil to me
    damascenajpg.jpg
    and Omar Khayyam (which was apparently grown by Edward FitzGerald from a seed taken from a plant that used to grow on or near Omar Khayyam's tomb).
    ok & harebells.jpg

    Some of the the Gallicas are pretty fragrant , especially Rosa Mundi & Officinalis.
    Officinalis (The Apothecary's Rose) is like Rosa Mundi without the lighter stripes!
    RM.jpg

    x Complicata will also grow in poor places & scents an area of the garden when in flower - the huge individual flowers are not particularly fragrant but it's pretty spectacular in bloom - and not much affected by rain!
    complicata.jpg

    Etoile d'Holland is a lovely, fragrant climber and there is a bush version which we've never grown.
    EdH.jpg

    Peter Beales grows many unusual old varieties & stocks many species/hybrids.

    Alba semi-plena is one of my favourites too - most of my pics are on my laptop!
    Will go and find one..
    AsP.jpg


    Fewer people here seem to be planting roses these days.

    We live in a traditionally dry part of the U.K. which they don't mind at all and the sorts that we grow in our garden are pretty hardy - Tea Roses might not thrive here.
    Last edited by lpp; 1st November 2013 at 06:38 PM.

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