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  1. #31
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaern View Post
    Quite a simple point really -- roses smell differently-- what genre of rose are you looking for?
    I understand that roses smell different. I wasn't at all asking for recommendations of a perfume that smells like a specific type of rose, though.

    My OP was just some thoughts I've been having about what it means for a perfume to be a soliflore. I don't think it's as simple a question as it seems, as I tried to explain. I was curious what other people thought about this.

    For you, does a rose soliflore mean only a perfume that is composed to smell as closely as possible like a specific natural rose?

    That seems to be the way most people think of a soliflore, including Tania Sanchez, according to the quote cacio mentions.

    But the composition of Une Rose seems to be something that goes beyond that, and yet Flechier himself describes it as a soliflor. That's what got me thinking about this.

    I was suggesting that a soliflore could be something more conceptual even than Flechier's composition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    We do...we actually had 30 rose bushes (whence my name) but winter cold killed off some of them. Currently we have (including multiples-- we plant shrub roses in triangular groups of 3):

    ....

    I did a blog post on raising roses, here:
    http://www.basenotes.net/entries/765...-raising-roses

    Holy smokes! Thanks for that, 30R. Reading through your descriptions I want so many of them, but probably only have suitable spaces for a few.

    I should probably start with one in case I turn out to have a brown thumb. I can't count on my wife for any help. Plants quiver in fear when she walks by. She's never met a plant she couldn't kill through willful negligence and her complete disregard for the sanctity of plant life.

    I've given your blog post a quick look, and will come back to it over the weekend when I have some more time. I'm gong to that rose show tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get an idea what strains that do well here have what I want.

    I've never been much of a gardener, but I would love very much to have some beautiful fragrant roses growing at my home. I don't know if I can handle this, but I'm going to look into it.

    I need to see if the spaces I have are really suitable for growing them. Texas should be a good climate for them, I guess. I may have to modify the soil to improve drainage.

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    Wow! Thanks for the lovely rose porn, lpp!

    I particularly like the rumply pink Kazanlik and a deep magenta Etoile d'Holland. Just beautiful.

    Can centifolias be grown in the UK successfully? They grow in Grasse I think, but it's probably hotter and drier there.

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    We grow the very fragrant Damascena 'Kazanlik' , which smells like Ta'if rose oil to me
    Attachment 21163

    Etoile d'Holland is a lovely, fragrant climber and there is a bush version which we've never grown.
    Attachment 21165
    So are tea roses primarily an American thing? Those are the ones I always pictured when I thought of roses. We actually had a small rose bush. It was there when we bought the house. Our neighbors' landscaping crew took it out when they had some landscaping done. They replaced it with some grass.

    I didn't even know it was a rose bush until my wife told me. The blooms were red, but small and opened flat, without the multiple layers of petals I'm used to seeing. I always imagined that all roses had the big teardrop shaped buds that open into that typical florist shop rose shape.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    Sorry couldn't seem to copy in your post. But really looking forward to your and others thoughts on these two favorites.

    Wonderful thread.
    Thank you, Sea Roses. It's nice to hear that. I had gotten very disinterested in the type of discussion that happens in the MFD these days, so I thought maybe I should start the kinds of threads I wanted to read and participate in myself. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

    I'm looking forward to testing these, but pretty intimidated by the thought of it. I'm not feeling at all confident about my ability to judge these.

    Well, even if I embarrass myself, it will be worth it if it leads to a good discussion and I learn something.
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  2. #32

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post




    I just ordered samples of Annick Goutal Rose Absolue - that should be as NBS as and NBS rose can get!
    Ok I'm glad you did.
    I thought maybe you didn't read it again I suggested it in the twi-huddler-light zone.

    As far as I'm concerned NBR come in primarily two renditions.

    Girly & soft rose - Rose Absolue

    Voluptuous rose: sa majeste la rose


    We regularly have these varieties oud roses growing in our garden eddy year.

    I prefer the latter.

    Or the former with oud oil & fumigate my clothes with oud wood.
    for swap/sale:



  3. #33
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    On Highness Rose - Perfume Shoppe shows it as a 100ml bottle, but I thought it was only sold in 50ml. Is it 100ml? Hednic or 30R - do you know for sure?
    I forgot to answer this. The perfume came in both sizes.

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post

    Holy smokes! Thanks for that, 30R. Reading through your descriptions I want so many of them, but probably only have suitable spaces for a few.

    I should probably start with one in case I turn out to have a brown thumb. I can't count on my wife for any help. Plants quiver in fear when she walks by. She's never met a plant she couldn't kill through willful negligence and her complete disregard for the sanctity of plant life.

    I've given your blog post a quick look, and will come back to it over the weekend when I have some more time. I'm gong to that rose show tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get an idea what strains that do well here have what I want.

    I've never been much of a gardener, but I would love very much to have some beautiful fragrant roses growing at my home. I don't know if I can handle this, but I'm going to look into it.

    I need to see if the spaces I have are really suitable for growing them. Texas should be a good climate for them, I guess. I may have to modify the soil to improve drainage.
    David Austin Roses is in Texas! So they must be able to thrive there. http://www.davidaustinroses.com/american/advanced.asp

    The show is a good start; if you can visit a rose garden, all the better. One good thing about seeing roses in a garden is that you can see what they look like at all stages, from bud to fully open flower-- and what they look like after a rain! Some roses manage to look good all the time ("Elina" was like that); some change colors as they open and then again as they fade away; some don't handle wet weather well at all -- the buds get glued shut and rot.

    Here is an encyclopedic book about rose cultivars (a cultivar is the specific rose, like "Mister Lincoln."): Botanica's Roses. Great photos and information-- see if your library has it in their reference section. If not that, they probably have other rose books.

    Don't be afraid to buy roses by catalog. They come bare roots; you have to soak them in water and plant them within the specified time. Or you can buy them in cardboard containers-- you plant them right in the container. The roots grow outward as the container disintegrates.

    Some hybridizers sell own-root roses (roses that have not been grafted onto root stock.) These can be an advantage for people who live in cold areas. The graft union is vulnerable to dying if it freezes (which is probably why some of our roses died), but if there is no graft, this can't happen. I can't see any advantage to having own-root roses in Texas, though.



  4. #34
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Ok I'm glad you did.
    I thought maybe you didn't read it again I suggested it in the twi-huddler-light zone.
    I didn't miss it. :-)

    It just took a while to find samples! I've been in a bunch of places that carry AG and none seem to stock that one.

    I think I like the voluptuous ones too. I don't see Sa Majeste as so much that way though - it seems more green and fresh.
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  5. #35
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    30R - thanks for the info. I will never get around to going to the library, so I just blind bought the book. With a forward by David Austin, by the way!

    I'll report back after the rose show tomorrow and probably post pics. I'm sure I'll get some leads on rose gardens I can visit locally, too. There will be mega rose nerds there that will be happy to point me in the right direction, I'm sure.
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  6. #36

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Jumping up and down in excitement. First things first. Thanks for the education, Rubegon. Now I know what a solifore is. Why am I excited? Okay, I'll confess. In fact, I can't wait to tell you! Apparently, when...um...when one has a dispute with one's "once and future" (i.e., former spouse one is considering re-spousing) and one is so mad one doesn't want to talk to him...apparently in such a circumstance, one learns a bottle of Une Rose is on the way to one's door!!!! Fainting!! See what you caused with that sample?? Many, many thanks.

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    "I plan to do a clash of the titans: Caron Rose and Guerlain Nahema. It is time."

    Can't wait, Rubegon! I have a miniature Nahema and a sample of the Caron, at least I think I do...checking...Caron Delire de Roses EdP. Is that the one?

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    Oops, I see it's not. Will try to get a sample.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 2nd November 2013 at 12:49 AM.

  7. #37
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    Jumping up and down in excitement. First things first. Thanks for the education, Rubegon. Now I know what a solifore is. Why am I excited? Okay, I'll confess. In fact, I can't wait to tell you! Apparently, when...um...when one has a dispute with one's "once and future" (i.e., former spouse one is considering re-spousing) and one is so mad one doesn't want to talk to him...apparently in such a circumstance, one learns a bottle of Une Rose is on the way to one's door!!!! Fainting!! See what you caused with that sample?? Many, many thanks.

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    "I plan to do a clash of the titans: Caron Rose and Guerlain Nahema. It is time."

    Can't wait, Rubegon! I have a miniature Nahema and a sample of the Caron, at least I think I do...checking...Caron Delire de Roses EdP. Is that the one?

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    Oops, I see it's not. Will try to get a sample.
    Congratulations! That's great news! He'd better not skimp and get you the 50ml. Now be sure not to abuse your new found perfume acquisition power - get very angry one too many time and he may catch on!

    The Caron is discontinued unfortunately, but I managed to pick up a full bottle on the cheap! Don't worry - I'll hook you up next time.
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  8. #38
    Basenotes Junkie Sea Roses's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Rubegon wrote (again sorry I can't seem to use the quote function)

    Thank you, Sea Roses. It's nice to hear that. I had gotten very disinterested in the type of discussion that happens in the MFD these days, so I thought maybe I should start the kinds of threads I wanted to read and participate in myself. I'm glad to see I'm not alone.

    I'm looking forward to testing these, but pretty intimidated by the thought of it. I'm not feeling at all confident about my ability to judge these.

    Well, even if I embarrass myself, it will be worth it if it leads to a good discussion and I learn something.


    Hi again Rubegon,

    You are certainly not alone and you certainly will not embarrass yourself.

    This thread has been truly a delight for me.

    If you feel intimidated by these perfumes I think something is wrong here (meaning the forum) . For me I have gained so much knowledge from your posts and about a note I love.....rose. And I look forward to your thoughts about the next two.

    Une Rose has always been my *holy grail* of roses .....but at times (and it will always be the case) something is wanting.

    In northern Greece in a region called Thrace there are the most exquisite roses, that being so close to Bulgaria there is actually a *black market* where they are shipped over the boarder and sold as *bulgarian Rose*. To date I have never been able to capture that rose in a marketed fragrance......but I live in hope! There is a rose grown there so black and wild that it makes me giddy with it's fumes......The Greek Roma people know the market for these roses, but I was lucky enough to be given some once.

    You say you do not have the confidence to judge these perfumes......who does? You are taking time and effort to give us your thoughts and impressions which are greatly appreciated and have led to a wonderful discussion.

    For me, this is what basenotes should be about......I want to understand more, be able to express what I get from a fragrance and how other people feel, without feeling the need to to be some *expert*.


    Really I thank you for starting this thread, everyone who contributed, and look forward to your next posts.

    sea roses
    Always keep Ithaca on your mind. Cavafy

  9. #39
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    We do...we actually had 30 rose bushes (whence my name) but winter cold killed off some of them. Currently we have (including multiples-- we plant shrub roses in triangular groups of 3):




    -- "Mister Lincoln." An excellent red rose, prize winner for disease resistance and scent, but you won't get a lot of roses. Plant more than one.
    -- "Chrysler Imperial"-- we had one of these at the house where I grew up. I never knew the name but after we bought our house, I searched for several years before successfully IDing it so as to plant it. This rose is one of the parents of Mister Lincoln. Gorgeous, velvety red petals, dark green foliage, amazing classic rose scent. I think if we ever plant more bushes to replace the ones that died, I might want more of this rose.
    -- "Double Delight"-- another prize winning scent, and quirky two-tone color. Beautiful shape. A great rose to cut.
    -- "Don Juan" Vigorous red rose bush-- that's it in my avatar. Not as scented as the others.
    -- "First Prize"-- Opens to a huge rose! Showy, but also not as scented as I would like. Bought it blind.
    My father is a master rose gardener and growing up, we must have had over 100 bushes at our home in Central Florida. Those listed above are a few of the ones we grew, but my favorite of all time has always been Mr. Lincoln. Such a stunning, classically beautiful rose with an equally classically beautiful scent! I can only assume my own love of rose scents stems (Ha ha) from this rose filled upbringing.

    As for suggestions of true roses, or no BS roses, if I understand correctly you mean those whose intent is as rose and rose alone. I may have mentioned these in the other thread but I cannot recall so I'll list again the ones I've tried that fit this description. (I'll agree that the journey of the rose note is long and varied!)

    Keiko Mecheri Mogador ( this one only lists 5 notes and three are Moroccan, May and Bulgarian Rose!)
    Keiko Mecheri Damascena (two of it's 5 notes are types of rose)
    Une Rose, but you know about that one
    Creed Fleur the Rose Bulgare
    Serge Lutens Sa Majeste La Rose
    Tea Rose
    Le Labo Rose 31 feels straightforward to me, but not sure it's notes agree with that opinion

    Oh, and I'd agree that Nahema is very true as well.

    I too and thoroughly enjoying this thread, my only regret in reading it is the jealousy I feel toward your wife going to Paris to shop perfume for you!

  10. #40
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    My father is a master rose gardener and growing up, we must have had over 100 bushes at our home in Central Florida. Those listed above are a few of the ones we grew, but my favorite of all time has always been Mr. Lincoln. Such a stunning, classically beautiful rose with an equally classically beautiful scent! I can only assume my own love of rose scents stems (Ha ha) from this rose filled upbringing.

    As for suggestions of true roses, or no BS roses, if I understand correctly you mean those whose intent is as rose and rose alone. I may have mentioned these in the other thread but I cannot recall so I'll list again the ones I've tried that fit this description. (I'll agree that the journey of the rose note is long and varied!)

    Keiko Mecheri Mogador ( this one only lists 5 notes and three are Moroccan, May and Bulgarian Rose!)
    Keiko Mecheri Damascena (two of it's 5 notes are types of rose)
    Une Rose, but you know about that one
    Creed Fleur the Rose Bulgare
    Serge Lutens Sa Majeste La Rose
    Tea Rose
    Le Labo Rose 31 feels straightforward to me, but not sure it's notes agree with that opinion

    Oh, and I'd agree that Nahema is very true as well.

    I too and thoroughly enjoying this thread, my only regret in reading it is the jealousy I feel toward your wife going to Paris to shop perfume for you!
    Thanks danieq! I am in good shape - I have FBs of the Lutens and Tea Rose, a decant of the Creed in hand and of the Le Labo on the way, and a sample of one of the Keikos coming as well, but not either of those. I think it was your rec that motivated to look at Keiko, but I didn't remember which one and guessed wrong. Lotta roses in Keiko's house.

    The Le Labo is very much a BS rose to my nose. A manrose in fact, butcher up with a load of cumin and some other spices. Perhaps even a brose!

    As for the Paris trip, let me just say that she has had a very tough year. She earned this girl trip with her BFF several times over! She's going to spend most of her time in museums, but I get to make her to bring me back some perfumes. :-)

    ----o----

    Here's my complete list so far. Tested ones at the top, the rest sorted by house. I've tried to ID some as BS/NBS, but I'm not sure until I test.

    As always, comments are welcome. If you'd like take a crack at classifying BS/NBS or rose sub-genre, please have at it! Just copy the table and type over my comments.

    House Name Conc. Vintage Size Have BS / NBS Tested Comments
    Frederic Malle Une Rose EdP New Sample X NBS 1 Earthy rose
    Serge Lutens Sa Majeste La Rose EdP New FB X NBS 2 Crunch green rose
    Perfumers Workshop Tea Rose EdT New FB X NBS 3 Florist shop rose
    Amouage Lyric Man EdP New Sample X NBS
    Amouage Lyric Woman EdP Recent Sample coming
    Amouage Lyric Woman Parfum New Sample coming
    Annick Goutal Rose Absolue EdP New Sample coming NBS
    By Kilian Rose Oud EdP New Decant X
    Caron Rose EdP Recent FB X NBS
    Caron Delires de Roses parfum Recent Sample X
    Caron Or et Noir parfum Recent Decant coming
    Crabtree and Evelyn Evelyn EdP Vintage FB coming
    Creed Fleur de The Rose Bulgare EdP vintage Decant X NBS
    Creed Windor EdP 2012 Decant X manrose
    Czech & Speake Dark Rose Cologne Recent Decant X
    Dior Oud Ispahan EdP Recent Sample X BS
    Diptyque L'Ombre Dans L'Eau EdP New Sample X
    Eau d'Italie Paestum Rose EdT Recent Decant X chyprose
    Estee Lauder Knowing parfum Vintage Mini X BS
    Etat Libre d'Orange Rossy de Palma EdP Recent FB X
    Evocative Perfumes Evelyn's Rose EdT New Sample coming NBS
    Frederic Malle Lipstick Rose EdP Recent Sample X BS
    Frederic Malle Portrait of a Lady EdP Recent Mini X BS manrose
    Gucci L'Arte di Gucci EdT Vintage Decant X BS chyprose
    Gucci No. 3 EdT Vintage FB X chyprose
    Guerlain Nahema PdT Late 80s FB X NBS
    Guerlain Rose Barbare EdP New Decant X
    Henry Jacques Snow Rose parfum ? Sample coming
    Histoires de Parfums 1969 EdP New Decant coming
    Histoires de Parfums Rosam EdP Recent Sample coming
    Jean-Charles Brousseau Ombre Rose parfum Vintage Mini coming
    Juliette has a Gun Midnight Oud EdP New Sample coming
    Keiko Mecheri Attar de Roses EdP New Sample coming
    Le Labo Rose 31 EdP Recent Decant coming BS brose
    Les Parfums de Rosine Rose d'Homme EdP Recent Sample X
    Montana Parfum de Peau EdT Vintage FB X
    Ormonde Jayne Ta'if EdP Recent Sample X
    Parfumerie Generale Brulure de Roses EdP Recent Sample X
    Paul Kiler Dirty Rose EdP New Mini coming
    Paul Kiler Dirty Rose Oud Extreme EdP New Mini coming
    Serge Lutens Rose de Nuit EdP Vintage Sample X BS chyprosiental
    Serge Lutens Rose de Nuit EdP New Decant coming BS chyprosiental
    Serge Lutens La Fille de Berlin EdP New Decant coming
    Stella McCartney Stella EdP New Sample X
    Stella McCartney Stella Rose Absolute EdP
    Tauer Incense Rose EdP Recent Sample X
    Tauer Une Rose Chypre EdP New Mini X BS chyprose
    Tauer Une Rose Vermeille EdP New Sample coming
    Ungaro Diva EdP Vintage FB X chyprose
    Van Cleef & Arpels Rose Velour EdP New Decant coming

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    Aw, man! My table got all messed up! Too wide I guess.
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  11. #41
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Thanks danieq! I am in good shape - I have FBs of the Lutens and Tea Rose, a decant of the Creed in hand and of the Le Labo on the way, and a sample of one of the Keikos coming as well, but not either of those. I think it was your rec that motivated to look at Keiko, but I didn't remember which one and guessed wrong. Lotta roses in Keiko's house.
    Keiko Mecheri does rose beautifully in my opinion, I've found several favorites there so I'll be interested in seeing your reaction. I own Attar de Roses which is probably my favorite, next to Lyric Woman, but it's not straightforward rose so I didn't include it. I also just received Bal de Roses but haven't tried it yet. I hope you enjoy the house as much as I do. I keep trying to get people to try KM as it seems a neglected house and I think the quality is stunning. She doesn't make things that are sillage bombs, they are all pretty light so perhaps that is the rub?

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    BTW, I love the way you dive into this journey! Such enthusiam is catching! I like your list too. I've tried quite a few on that list along my own journey, which started somewhere around July if memory serves. I've gotten to the point of wondering just how many Rose scents I can justifiably own.

  12. #42

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Good picks!
    I hope you embrace Tauer's babies, no one else mentioned them but me even though each is wonderful in its own way, very distinctive and natural smelling.

    After Foustie's post, I had to orderRosine's 15 samples and Lumiere femme

    Lately, there are great posts in this part of the forum, it feels like pre-2010 Basenote's !

    PS: L'Ombre Dans L'Eau is such an experience, but because of the tomato leaf, so its a BS rose in the Dyptique's style of perfume.
    We want a niche forum.

  13. #43
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    [QUOTE=rubegon;2984412]I

    Holy smokes! Thanks for that, 30R. Reading through your descriptions I want so many of them, but probably only have suitable spaces for a few.

    I should probably start with one in case I turn out to have a brown thumb. I can't count on my wife for any help. Plants quiver in fear when she walks by. She's never met a plant she couldn't kill through willful negligence and her complete disregard for the sanctity of plant life.

    I've given your blog post a quick look, and will come back to it over the weekend when I have some more time. I'm gong to that rose show tomorrow, so hopefully I'll get an idea what strains that do well here have what I want.

    I've never been much of a gardener, but I would love very much to have some beautiful fragrant roses growing at my home. I don't know if I can handle this, but I'm going to look into it.

    I need to see if the spaces I have are really suitable for growing them. Texas should be a good climate for them, I guess. I may have to modify the soil to improve drainage.

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    Wow! Thanks for the lovely rose porn, lpp!

    I particularly like the rumply pink Kazanlik and a deep magenta Etoile d'Holland. Just beautiful.

    Can centifolias be grown in the UK successfully? They grow in Grasse I think, but it's probably hotter and drier there.



    So are tea roses primarily an American thing? Those are the ones I always pictured when I thought of roses. We actually had a small rose bush. It was there when we bought the house. Our neighbors' landscaping crew took it out when they had some landscaping done. They replaced it with some grass.

    I didn't even know it was a rose bush until my wife told me. The blooms were red, but small and opened flat, without the multiple layers of petals I'm used to seeing. I always imagined that all roses had the big teardrop shaped buds that open into that typical florist shop rose shape. End Quote

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    Glad that you enjoyed the pics, rubegon!

    Hybrid Teas were popular here but need more attention than the newer hybrids and species.

    Centifolias grow here perfectly well - most types of rose are very hardy and the older types such as Centifolias, damasks & Gallicas are more resistant to disease than some of the H.T's.

    The Kazanlik is one of my favourites - the flowers retain their scent for quite a while when dried and are lovely left to dry in a bowl with lavender.
    It is grown in Bulgaria for oil production.

    Etoile D'Hollland is not seen much here - it's lovely growing up a wall and the scent is really very rich and fruity - a very old-fashioned, dark 'red' scent.
    Ours is on an arch, so that the blooms are easy to pull down to sniff!

    Thank you so much for this thread - the rose has been important to perfumery in many countries so it's great to see some appreciation.

  14. #44
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    I know your point on here was to discuss soliflors so I ask forgiveness right off the top, but I did want to mention another soliflore rose scent that might be interesting.

    I've not tried the fragrance by itself, but Jurlique makes a line of skincare that is rose scented. They also have a small rollerball fragrance that is supposed to be the scent of their skincare products. Personally, I LOVE the scent and have been meaning to pick up the fragrance. Thought you might be interested as it's a very true, old fashioned scent that decorates the skincare line.

  15. #45
    Basenotes Member ben_from_boston's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    maybe you've seen it already, but raphaella's roses seems to be a reasonable thorough list of rose ideas.
    http://www.sniffapaloozamagazine.com...sesSERIES.html
    also, aoud damascus by montale is quite nice.

  16. #46

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    In northern Greece in a region called Thrace there are the most exquisite roses, that being so close to Bulgaria there is actually a *black market* where they are shipped over the boarder and sold as *bulgarian Rose*.
    sea roses
    If I picked up a novel that started this way, I'd stop all else and keep reading.

  17. #47
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    I'll be doing some serious sniffing tomorrow, and I'll post regardless of whether my new thread comes back by then.

    Until then, photos from the rose show today...

















    and a bottle teaser for tomorrow



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    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Etoile D'Hollland is not seen much here - it's lovely growing up a wall and the scent is really very rich and fruity - a very old-fashioned, dark 'red' scent.
    Ours is on an arch, so that the blooms are easy to pull down to sniff!

    Thank you so much for this thread - the rose has been important to perfumery in many countries so it's great to see some appreciation.
    This ones sounds perfect! I have a spot of wall with a flower bed at its foot. I'd love to build a trellis for a wall full of these beauties to call home. It gets oblique sunlight and not completely direct though. I'm not sure that will work. If I could even pull it off.

    It's my pleasure! I'm finding this much more rewarding that cruising the MFD and JSO to look for mildly interesting threads to add a comment to. I'm just so happy to see there are still folks hanging around that are interested in participating in something like this.


    Quote Originally Posted by ben_from_boston View Post
    maybe you've seen it already, but raphaella's roses seems to be a reasonable thorough list of rose ideas.
    http://www.sniffapaloozamagazine.com...sesSERIES.html
    also, aoud damascus by montale is quite nice.
    Thanks ben_from_boston. I gave it a quick look, and it looks like a great summary. I think I'll stay away from it for now though. This is all about the journey for me, not the destination. I'll take the scenic route for now, and go where my nose and those of my fellow Basenoters leads me.

    I think I'm going to have to break down and order a bunch of Montale samples. Once I hear back from the Perfume Shoppe, I'll put together a set of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian_Towers View Post
    Good picks!
    I hope you embrace Tauer's babies, no one else mentioned them but me even though each is wonderful in its own way, very distinctive and natural smelling.

    After Foustie's post, I had to orderRosine's 15 samples and Lumiere femme

    Lately, there are great posts in this part of the forum, it feels like pre-2010 Basenote's !

    PS: L'Ombre Dans L'Eau is such an experience, but because of the tomato leaf, so its a BS rose in the Dyptique's style of perfume.
    Thanks Brian_Towers!
    I already have embraced Une Rose Chypre. One spray after my mini arrived: WTH? for the first 30m, and then it came into focus and I was quite taken with it. I'll see how I get on with the others eventually.

    I may do the same with the Rosines. I have so much already, though! We'll see.

    The Diptyque is a big time BS rose, but one I think I like from first impressions.

    I for one, see myself starting threads mostly in the GFD these days. I've found that the character of the MFD and FFD don't really fit me. I completely relate to your sig, though. The FFD is like a great fancy garden party full of bright, smart, friendly ladies, but I feel a bit like a gorilla lumbering around in there. The GFD is more of a clean slate - that suits me. Besides, most things I have to say about scent these days have nothing to do with gender. I'm not willing to cede rose to the ladies. They'll have to share it.


    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    Keiko Mecheri does rose beautifully in my opinion, I've found several favorites there so I'll be interested in seeing your reaction. I own Attar de Roses which is probably my favorite, next to Lyric Woman, but it's not straightforward rose so I didn't include it. I also just received Bal de Roses but haven't tried it yet.

    ...


    BTW, I love the way you dive into this journey! Such enthusiam is catching! I like your list too. I've tried quite a few on that list along my own journey, which started somewhere around July if memory serves. I've gotten to the point of wondering just how many Rose scents I can justifiably own.
    OK - you've sold me. I went on the Keiko Mecheri website, and they have a great sample program, so I can get the others easily. I couldn't complete the checkout process, though. I'll try calling later.

    How many roses? Every one you can't be without, of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    There is a rose grown there so black and wild that it makes me giddy with it's fumes......The Greek Roma people know the market for these roses, but I was lucky enough to be given some once.
    Thanks for that post. You make me want to go there.
    That is a rose I want to experience!
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Nice rose pics! Did you take down their names?



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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    This is a great thread. It is exactly the combination of perfume discussion and off topic that I like. The photos are wonderful. I'd like to contribute, but I have not really explored rose perfumes fully. It seems as though you could spend a good portion of your life doing that.

    As far as growing roses, I have only one in my yard, an old fashioned climber called Zephirine Drouin( I think I spelled that correctly ). I planted it because it is nearly thornless and the scent is beautiful, sort of a fresh, fruity rose. The flowers are a medium magenta in color. Unfortunately, it does not do all that well where it is planted. It is too hot on the south side of my house and the summers here are humid. I suspect it needs better ventilation. And, I am not an experienced gardener.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    This is getting better and better.......

    I am really looking forward to the results of your sniffing tomorrow!

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Thanks for the lovely pics, rubegon!

    Our Etoile is a little too close to the canopy of a massive ancient oak tree - it's not prone to mildew so it should be fine in your space!
    We had one growing up a south-facing wall on an old cottage once - it was trained to run horizontally below the upstairs windows and over the porch so that the blooms hung their heads.
    The person who had originally planted it, probably soon after it was bred, was given a rose plant each year by her husband for her birthday
    They do need a little patience before they take off 'though.

    Having been inspired by your thread, I've just ordered a sample of Etoile de Hollande by Mona di Orio...

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    We do...we actually had 30 rose bushes (whence my name) but winter cold killed off some of them. Currently we have (including multiples-- we plant shrub roses in triangular groups of 3):

    • "Roseraie de L'Hay" (rugosa, great for landscaping)-- very fragrant, reminds me of Highness Rose with its spicy carnation note.This grows into a huge, tall/wide bush with abundant flowers, but stems are too short for picking as with all rugosas. No matter, the fragrance will waft through the air to you.

    Hybrid tea roses as follows; some we bought blind when we first moved here (a mistake if you love fragrant roses.)
    -- "Mister Lincoln." An excellent red rose, prize winner for disease resistance and scent, but you won't get a lot of roses. Plant more than one.
    -- "Chrysler Imperial"-- we had one of these at the house where I grew up. I never knew the name but after we bought our house, I searched for several years before successfully IDing it so as to plant it. This rose is one of the parents of Mister Lincoln. Gorgeous, velvety red petals, dark green foliage, amazing classic rose scent. I think if we ever plant more bushes to replace the ones that died, I might want more of this rose.
    -- "Double Delight"-- another prize winning scent, and quirky two-tone color. Beautiful shape. A great rose to cut.
    -- "Fragrant Plum" Amazing color and scent! Unfortunately it produces few roses and is weak and spindly as a bush. It was hybridized in Oregon so maybe it just doesn't like New England weather?
    -- "Full Sail" is a white sport of the pink rose, "New Zealand". It will be unmourned when it dies. We jokingly call it "Fabric Softener". Looks fine, but meh aroma.
    -- "Don Juan" Vigorous red rose bush-- that's it in my avatar. Not as scented as the others.
    -- "Midas Touch"-- intensely yellow but not as scented as we believed it to be when we bought it blind.
    -- "First Prize"-- Opens to a huge rose! Showy, but also not as scented as I would like. Bought it blind.

    We have also owned, in the past, "Elina" (beautiful yellow rose, not hardy enough for our winters, moderate pretty scent) and "John F. Kennedy" (mildly scented white rose, excellent for cutting, lasts a week in a vase, died after one year-- not cold hardy.)

    Were we to buy more hybrid teas, I would like "Eiffel Tower" (ruffly pink petals and great scent), and "Sweet Surrender" (boring pink color but amazing lemony/classic rose scent). "Pink Peace" is also excellent.

    David Austin roses as follows--
    -- "Abraham Darby"-- my favorite Austin. Exquisite scent, healthy, nicely shaped bushes, lots of flowers
    -- "Graham Thomas"-- my favorite yellow rose of any sort-- good sized bushes and lots of flowers, and I love the scent
    -- "Evelyn"-- the rose named by C&E, upon which their original eponymous rose scent is based-- gangly growth, a little paler than Abraham Darby. If you can only get one, choose Abraham Darby.
    -- "Gertrude Jekyll"-- extremely fragrant rose with an old rose scent, but the thorniest rose you will probably ever encounter. Must smell!

    If we were to buy another Austin, I would want "Pat Austin" to add variety in the color of our bushes. The two tone petals (orange on one side, yellow on the other) are beautiful, and I like the scent.

    The beauty of Austin is that he only grows fragrant roses, no exceptions. The bushes are shrubs and produce generously. Most are remontant (repeat flowering) but a few flower only once (like "Constance Spry".) The stems are slender, and in vases they make soft looking arrangements-- a very different look from that of hybrid tea rose arrangements.

    The only scent I loathe among the Austin roses is the so-called myrrh scent. In their catalog they clearly state which ones have the myrrh scent, which I suppose some people love-- we actually uprooted our 3 bushes of "Tamora" and threw them away, so vile did we find the odor. If you can get to a public rose garden, smell before buying!

    I did a blog post on raising roses, here:
    http://www.basenotes.net/entries/765...-raising-roses

    Adding this as an afterthought: There is a classic climber that you have to see and smell. The buds have a distinctive oval shape and the scent is also distinctive. "New Dawn". We had this in our yard where I grew up and I am always happy to see/smell it again in rose gardens.
    Thanks for this post, and thanks to the op for this thread. I am a life long rose gardener who, in his 60th year, decided to try perfumes to supplement his fragrance addiction. Just this morning I posted a thread over in MFD the point of which was to get me to the the truest rose scents in perfumery--not being aware of this thread or of the other Huddler BN thread on the same subject. Guess I should get out more.

    Anyway, long story short, my fragrance odyssey began and grew up in the garden, and the rose garden in particular. I had more than 300 rose bushes in the ground at one time, of all varieties--teas, Austins, HTs, antiques, shrubs and climbers. I love growing them, love more photographing them--but most of all, love to smell them.

    And I haven't yet found a fragrance that captures the rose well. That may well be because I'm new to fragrance. But at this point I'm on a mission. It doesn't have to be rose only. But the ideal fragrance for me will feature prominently, at least, the smell of real, old fashioned, roses.

    So I'm going back to the start of this thread to begin re-reading and taking notes.

    Thanks again to all who have posted here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    We grow the very fragrant Damascena 'Kazanlik' , which smells like Ta'if rose oil to me
    Attachment 21163
    and Omar Khayyam (which was apparently grown by Edward FitzGerald from a seed taken from a plant that used to grow on or near Omar Khayyam's tomb).
    Attachment 21183

    Some of the the Gallicas are pretty fragrant , especially Rosa Mundi & Officinalis.
    Officinalis (The Apothecary's Rose) is like Rosa Mundi without the lighter stripes!
    Attachment 21164

    x Complicata will also grow in poor places & scents an area of the garden when in flower - the huge individual flowers are not particularly fragrant but it's pretty spectacular in bloom - and not much affected by rain!
    Attachment 21166

    Etoile d'Holland is a lovely, fragrant climber and there is a bush version which we've never grown.
    Attachment 21165

    Peter Beales grows many unusual old varieties & stocks many species/hybrids.

    Alba semi-plena is one of my favourites too - most of my pics are on my laptop!
    Will go and find one..
    Attachment 21184


    Fewer people here seem to be planting roses these days.

    We live in a traditionally dry part of the U.K. which they don't mind at all and the sorts that we grow in our garden are pretty hardy - Tea Roses might not thrive here.
    Thanks for that post!

    Have you tried the Profumum fragrance named for Rosa Mundi? If it is even an approximation of its namesake, it ought to be a terrific fragrance.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    OK - my rosa pristina thread isn't back up yet. Rather than continuing to post my comments on other rose perfumes that I test here, I'm going to start a new thread. That way, I'm hoping it will be possible to merge that thread with the old one cleanly and have a continuous record of that path.

    I'll keep using this thread to post thoughts about solilfores and roses, classifications, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 30 Roses View Post
    Nice rose pics! Did you take down their names?
    Thanks 30R.

    Ummm - I probably should have done that. Oops! Sorry, I was in a rush because the kids were dying to get into the bouncy castle outside. The white one was a miniature rose with "violet" in the name I think. The big red one was call "Veteran's Honor" I think. No idea about the rest.


    Welcome james1051! Posting in the Male FD is probably not the best way to get rose recs. ;-)

    I hope this thread is more helpful.

    And the new thread is here:

    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370419-Stat-rosa-pristina-nomine-Part-2?p=2985634#post2985634

    - - - Updated - - -

    Oh, and I looked into the Etoile de Hollande climbing rose, but David Austin seems to only sell this one in Europe. Does anyone know if its available in the US?
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post

    Oh, and I looked into the Etoile de Hollande climbing rose, but David Austin seems to only sell this one in Europe. Does anyone know if its available in the US?
    It is. I grew it for years (left it behind when I sold my place a few years ago.) It is not a DA rose, much older than that. Although DA Roses may sell it retai.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    DA does in fact sell it, but only for delivery to Europe. I will have to check around locally. I guess this isn't the time of year to be planting them anyway - spring is when one should plant new ones, right?
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    DA does in fact sell it, but only for delivery to Europe. I will have to check around locally. I guess this isn't the time of year to be planting them anyway - spring is when one should plant new ones, right?
    Early spring for grafted plants. Early autumn or spring (not too early) for own root babies. Where are you located?

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Quote Originally Posted by james1051 View Post
    Early spring for grafted plants. Early autumn or spring (not too early) for own root babies. Where are you located?
    Texas gulf coast. We don't get many days of freezing temperatures in the winter, but every 5 - 10 years we do get a cold snap and see a bit of snow.
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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Musings on soliflores....

    I'm still going around with this thread stuck in my head, so I thought that I might as well gather some of my thoughts together. I do think that Rubegon's intention in this lovely thread is to discuss and consider the idea of Soliflore fragrances, as well as to try different examples of the rose soliflore genre. These are ramblings guys, not an essay and probably full o' typos because my spell check doesn't work since the home coming, but here goes. As always, do feel free to disagree.

    A soliflore, an impression of a single flower type, but not, by any means a single note. If I want to smell a good single rose note I could smell Bulgarian or Turkish Rose oils, absolutes, extracts, and attars, maybe a rose oxide. I could smell damask rose or cabbage rose, from France, Bulgaria, Turkey, Morroco. But to me, and I honestly have no idea whether I'm right, a Soliflore is a fragrance in which the accord or accords create the impression of a singl flower type. So we have our Iris Soliflores, such as Santa Maria Novella Iris (you can't get more authentic in terms of provenance than that), and of course Iris Silver Mist, and then the lilac soliflore En Passant, the violets of Violette de Toulouse, we have jasmine (Tawaf), sweet peas and hyacinths, ylang ylang, and carnations.

    There are some companies that I associate with soliflores. Usually old fashioned ones. I mentioned Santa Maria Novella who do many soliflores, rose, broom, hay, Zagara (orange flower) are only a few. Then we have companies like Morny, Crabtree and Evelyn, Bronnley. On of the best that I see quoted again and again is the Perfumers Workshop Tea Rose.

    When does a fragrance stop being a soliflore? Rose soliflores can have many, many notes and accords. Galbanum may add to the impression of a green, garden rose, patchouli to an earthy rose, there is a clove note present in many roses. If we look at Iris, we can have earthy Iris, powdery Iris, doughy Iris, vegetal Iris. We can have single flower accords, single flowers enhanced by other accords, think about Tocade, which is Rose and Vanilla. What about Rose D'Arabie, which is Rose and Oud. Is that still a soliflore? Can we have demi-soliflores? Semi- soliflores?

    For the sake of context should we acknowledge that rose is a major player in complex, melange accords, with the great triumvirate; rose, jasmine and ylang ylang. Quite the opposite end of the spectrum from a soliflore. Think of the great, the magnificent icons of french perfumery. Think about Jean Patou 1000. Personally I have a soft spot for soliflores, rather than these great bombastic accords.

    For me, as long as the flower is central, the focus, the muse, then I would experience it as a soliflore. I think that I would expect a restraint though, a simplicity in the experience even if the composition is complex. If I smell a rose oud, or a vetiver rose (recommend one ....please.....) or anything that transports me to an image of a particular flower or material, no matter how enhanced, how well painted, how abstract, minimalist, how ornate, if that wonderful fragrance conjured a shimmering, virtual, olfactory image of a single flower I would happily consider it to be a rose fragrance, or an Iris centric fragrance, but a soliflore? No, not always. I think that for me there is a difference. I would say that Lumiere Noir is a rose but is it a rose soliflore? There is line to be drawn between a rose soliflore, a rose dominant accord and a fragrance with an obvious rose note.

    I don't know where it is though! Do you?
    Last edited by Foustie; 6th November 2013 at 07:21 PM.

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    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    Aha! Now we're talking!

    Thanks Foustie - great post! I'm going to stew over it a bit and reply tonight.

    Do you know Nahema, Sa Majeste and/or Une Rose? Those are the "debatable" ones I've tested, so it's easiest to respond by referring to them...
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  30. #60

    Default Re: Some thoughts on soliflors and such

    I think it's easiest to know what a soliflore is by contrasting them against 'bouquets', fragrances which contain notes of several flowers such that no particular floral note stands out. I believe this is the traditional idea of soliflores.

    I also think that soliflores tend to be more photorealistic in the sense that these scents want to convey the impression of natural beauty, whereas bouquets lean towards abstraction: a floral scent, but not any specific flower (think Chanel No. 5, or Hermès Jour d'Hermès).

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