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Thread: Learning Chypre

  1. #31

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Wow! Congratulations! That's a beautiful bottle. I think the white box EdCs were from late 50s through early- to mid- 60s, but not positive. This is a fantastic vintage, it's sealed, with minimal evaporation, and the juice looks perfect. I think you'll be very happy with it! I would decant into a small atomizer and then store the flacon in its box in a cool dark place.
    Whew! Glad to know that, Rubegon, many thanks! I was a little worried because I was expecting zig zags on the box. It's the same gorgeous smell as in the sample you sent, but it doesn't last quite as long. Wonder if it's more scent volume from a spray and less from a dab?

  2. #32
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    Whew! Glad to know that, Rubegon, many thanks! I was a little worried because I was expecting zig zags on the box. It's the same gorgeous smell as in the sample you sent, but it doesn't last quite as long. Wonder if it's more scent volume from a spray and less from a dab?
    Yes, I think the white boxes were just before the zigzag ones, but only in the US maybe. Before that they used the coffee bean and then before than the blue boxes.

    If you're dabbing on, you won't get the sillage you get from spraying. This may make it seem to not last as long. I would definitely recommend decanting into a good quality vaporizer.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    Another one I would recommend looking out for is Acqua di Parma Profumo. Mine is from a few years back and I imagine more recent versions may well have suffered due to IFRA, but it is superb. To me it's slightly more winey take on the chypre accord, I guess a dark rose instead of Mitsouko's peach, but treat that as a blunt comparison - it's sublime.

    And if you come across it Cosmic (Solange) is a cool sloppy chypre in a good mood - the basic accord is intact and absolutely wonderful, but it's having a late 60's night listening to the Woodstock triple album soundtrack (on vinyl, natch).

    And Jubilation 25 is also better than a poke in the eye with a blunt stick.

    Mitsouko PDT is still pretty much my favourite . . .
    I agree with all of this, except that I don't know the Solange. J25 is muuuuuch better than a poke in the eye, by the way!

    J25 and Profumo are both excellent rose chypres, with J25 having a big whack of civet that livens things up from the opening.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  3. #33

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Modern chypres are post-oakmoss restrictions, typically instead of oakmoss one has some combination of patchouli, vetiver, and possibly some woods to replicate the chypre feel (hence the links to Angel, which is big on woods and patchouli). Among the most talked about new chypres are also things like Estee Lauder Jasmine white moss and Chanel 31 rue Cambon. But also Ormonde Jayne Tiare (which probably does have some oakmoss). But now you hear the word chypre for fragrances that have very little of it as well - referring to a generic impression rather than to a specific accord (for instance, I think I remember hearing a perfumer talking about her creation of Armani Si' as "chypre'" - I have not smelled it yet).

    To my nose, new chypres smell cleaner, somewhat scrubbed, relative to the old ones.

    cacio
    Cacio, I hope you don't mind my porting your comment over here for reply. And thanks, mr. Reasonable and others for the new suggestions, included below. I spent a happy hour or so on the Frangrantica Chypre Floral list and found myself adding all that appealed. Any comments before I go into acquisition mode, not expecting to find or get them all (but wouldn't it be thrilling?) Do you have any suggested skips or must-sniffs?

    I'm thinking I could make a Chypre pass from this.

    08 Une Rose Chypre
    34 Boulevard St. Germain, Diptique
    Acqua di Parma Profumo (vintage)
    Abano, Prince Matchabelli (vintage)
    Aigues Vives
    Ange ou Demon Le Secret Elixir
    Anthropologie's Belle du Soir, Le Labo
    Armani Si'
    Aoud Shiny, Montale
    Azalee
    Balenciaga Paris
    Bandit, Robert Piguet
    Bianco, Bruno Acampora
    Black Tie, Cassini
    Chance Eau Fraiche, Chanel
    Chance, Chanel
    Chypre Rouge, Serge Lutens
    Coco Mademoiselle
    Cosmic
    Daim Blond
    Diamella, Yves Rocher
    Eclat de Jasmin, Giorgio Armani
    Eau Sauvage
    Estee Lauder White Moss
    Eau de Metal, Pace Rabanne (since I still have some)
    Enlevement au Serail
    Fate Woman, Amouage
    Flora by Gucci 1966
    Johana Keiko Mecheri
    Jubilation 25
    Lady Caron
    Lafeorosa, O'Driu
    Le Parfum de Therese, Malle
    M. Micallef
    Neroli, Roja Dove
    Nino Ceruti Pour Femme
    Ormonde Jayne Tiare
    Parfum de Grasse, DHS
    Place Rouge, Guerlain
    Promesse de l'Aube
    Rochas Femme (vintage)
    Rosae Mundi, Profumum Roma
    Sublime, Jean Patou
    Umbe Keiko Mecheria
    Une Histoire de Chypre, Molinard
    Valentina Assoluto
    Very Irresistible Givenchy L'Intense
    White Patchouli, Tom Ford

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    ... I would decant into a small atomizer and then store the flacon in its box in a cool dark place.
    Oh! Okay, off to buy small atomizers. Thanks.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 12th November 2013 at 09:34 PM.

  4. #34
    Dependent danieq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    What a lovely list Scentfan! Chypre is one I'm still seeking to understand so your list could prove helpful indeed.

  5. #35

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall Luca Turin making the analogy of the three core chypre ingredients, (bergamot, labdanum and oakmoss) constituting the three dimensions of a room which then allow you re-arrange the furniture inside more or less at will.

    This makes sense to me.

    Hence Mitsouko has some peach, AdP Profumo wine-rose, some have leather and some are more bitter-green (galbanum, vetiver, patchouli) and so on.

    The key thing for a chypre to 'feel right' for me is simple, it's the sense of expansiveness, of space - those three dimensions Turin talks about. A more poetic description might allude to a breeze blowing through a section of forest or garden with a scent of florals in the air and definitely some decaying leaves mixed with the soil underfoot, a 'forest floor' note if you will - this being the oakmoss, which is now sadly lacking from chypre (and fougere) accords due to the fools in EU and IFRA who have restricted use of the stuff to almost zero.

    31 Rue Cambon is worth trying for the simple reason that it illustrates beautifully a classic chypre except that after a short while you realise there is nothing to stand on - the oakmoss is not there and there hasn't (to my knowledge) been any effort to disguise the fact - in a sense you are left floating in the air.

    Annick Goutal's Mon Parfum Cheri par Camille is worth experiencing because it is a terrific example of a 'nu-chypre' where a bitter patchouli accord has been used as a base - it is an extension of sorts of the classic Aromatics Elixiir to my mind (and still well worth trying - a no-nonsense chypre).

    Bottomline - for me anyway - is that when I step into a chypre I want a sense of space, it should be a three dimensional experience. It's remakable how so many of the 80's, even 90's, Guerlain Eaux de Colognes & Toilettes (Vol de Nuit, Parure, Mitsouko et al) and something like the 70's Eau de Patou, can seem so open and airy, yet also 'grounded' with such a low concentration of the core fragrance compared to so many current perfumes.

    It feels like the walls are closing in on us these days

    labdanum%2B(7).jpgUnknown-1.jpegUnknown.jpeg

    Collecting Labdanum + Oakmoss + Bergamot
    Last edited by mr. reasonable; 13th November 2013 at 04:34 AM.

  6. #36

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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    So many things ...

    If you stop at a Macy's or the like, you should also smell the Estee Lauder cited in another thread, ie Azuree, Knowing, Private Collection (which has lost a lot of oakmoss, though), and especially Clinique Aromatics Elixir (clinique is owned by Estee lauder)

    cacio

  7. #37

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall Luca Turin making the analogy of the three core chypre ingredients, (bergamot, labdanum and oakmoss) constituting the three dimensions of a room which then allow you re-arrange the furniture inside more or less at will.

    This makes sense to me.

    Hence Mitsouko has some peach, AdP Profumo wine-rose, some have leather and some are more bitter-green (galbanum, vetiver, patchouli) and so on.

    The key thing for a chypre to 'feel right' for me is simple, it's the sense of expansiveness, of space - those three dimensions Turin talks about. A more poetic description might allude to a breeze blowing through a section of forest or garden with a scent of florals in the air and definitely some decaying leaves mixed with the soil underfoot, a 'forest floor' note if you will - this being the oakmoss, which is now sadly lacking from chypre (and fougere) accords due to the fools in EU and IFRA who have restricted use of the stuff to almost zero.

    31 Rue Cambon is worth trying for the simple reason that it illustrates beautifully a classic chypre except that after a short while you realise there is nothing to stand on - the oakmoss is not there and there hasn't (to my knowledge) been any effort to disguise the fact - in a sense you are left floating in the air.

    Annick Goutal's Mon Parfum Cheri par Camille is worth experiencing because it is a terrific example of a 'nu-chypre' where a bitter patchouli accord has been used as a base - it is an extension of sorts of the classic Aromatics Elixiir to my mind (and still well worth trying - a no-nonsense chypre).

    Bottomline - for me anyway - is that when I step into a chypre I want a sense of space, it should be a three dimensional experience. It's remakable how so many of the 80's, even 90's, Guerlain Eaux de Colognes & Toilettes (Vol de Nuit, Parure, Mitsouko et al) and something like the 70's Eau de Patou, can seem so open and airy, yet also 'grounded' with such a low concentration of the core fragrance compared to so many current perfumes.

    It feels like the walls are closing in on us these days

    labdanum%2B(7).jpgUnknown-1.jpegUnknown.jpeg

    Collecting Labdanum + Oakmoss + Bergamot
    Wonderful concepts beautifully worded, mr.reasonable.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    So many things ...

    If you stop at a Macy's or the like, you should also smell the Estee Lauder cited in another thread, ie Azuree, Knowing, Private Collection (which has lost a lot of oakmoss, though), and especially Clinique Aromatics Elixir (clinique is owned by Estee lauder)

    cacio
    Yes, that's sensible. I think I'm beginning not to love perfume counters, much like I don't love libraries—full of books I don't own.

  8. #38
    Dependent pluran's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    I don't have it in front of me but I seem to recall Luca Turin making the analogy of the three core chypre ingredients, (bergamot, labdanum and oakmoss) constituting the three dimensions of a room which then allow you re-arrange the furniture inside more or less at will........
    Thanks mr. reasonable.

    From Luca Turin's Mitsouko review:

    “Chypre was based on a three component accord so perfect that it remains unsurpassed and fertile in new developments ninety years later: bergamot, labdanum, and oakmoss. They smell respectively citrus-resinous, sweet-amber-resinous, and bitter-resinous. Picture them as equal sectors making up a pie chart, sticking to each other via the resin. The resulting genre, now called chypre, has two fundamental qualities: balance and abstraction.”

  9. #39
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    Cacio, I hope you don't mind my porting your comment over here for reply. And thanks, mr. Reasonable and others for the new suggestions, included below. I spent a happy hour or so on the Frangrantica Chypre Floral list and found myself adding all that appealed. Any comments before I go into acquisition mode, not expecting to find or get them all (but wouldn't it be thrilling?) Do you have any suggested skips or must-sniffs?

    I'm thinking I could make a Chypre pass from this.

    08 Une Rose Chypre
    34 Boulevard St. Germain, Diptique
    Acqua di Parma Profumo (vintage)
    Abano, Prince Matchabelli (vintage)
    Aigues Vives
    Ange ou Demon Le Secret Elixir
    Anthropologie's Belle du Soir, Le Labo
    Armani Si'
    Aoud Shiny, Montale
    Azalee
    Balenciaga Paris
    Bandit, Robert Piguet
    Bianco, Bruno Acampora
    Black Tie, Cassini
    Chance Eau Fraiche, Chanel
    Chance, Chanel
    Chypre Rouge, Serge Lutens
    Coco Mademoiselle
    Cosmic
    Daim Blond
    Diamella, Yves Rocher
    Eclat de Jasmin, Giorgio Armani
    Eau Sauvage
    Estee Lauder White Moss
    Eau de Metal, Pace Rabanne (since I still have some)
    Enlevement au Serail
    Fate Woman, Amouage
    Flora by Gucci 1966
    Johana Keiko Mecheri
    Jubilation 25
    Lady Caron
    Lafeorosa, O'Driu
    Le Parfum de Therese, Malle
    M. Micallef
    Neroli, Roja Dove
    Nino Ceruti Pour Femme
    Ormonde Jayne Tiare
    Parfum de Grasse, DHS
    Place Rouge, Guerlain
    Promesse de l'Aube
    Rochas Femme (vintage)
    Rosae Mundi, Profumum Roma
    Sublime, Jean Patou
    Umbe Keiko Mecheria
    Une Histoire de Chypre, Molinard
    Valentina Assoluto
    Very Irresistible Givenchy L'Intense
    White Patchouli, Tom Ford
    I don't know all of them, but many on this list don't seem like chypres to me. Now that oakmoss is effectively banned, perfume houses seem to take that as a license to call almost anything a chypre. It's become kind of a buzzword. And many of those in the list are not even described by the house as chypres.

    I've highlighted the ones that I've tried and that I think are chypres.

    Of the rest, some of the ones I don't think of as chypres are: Chanel Chance and Coco Mademoiselle, Daim Blond, 34 BSG, Eau Sauvage, Sublime.

    I don't know most of the rest.

    I'm not sure how Fragrantica populated their list. Whoever compiled it seems to have a pretty broad definition of a chypre. Some people seem to think that anything that lists citrus and moss notes is a chypre, but many things that do don't smell like chypres.

    It's like Mr. Reasonable says - they have to have a sense of space, and almost nothing in production today does.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  10. #40

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    But Daim Blond and Fate Woman are both so wonderful it doesn't really matter what they are

  11. #41

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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Eau Sauvage had a light chypre base in the original version, but now it's gone. Unfortunately what happened to many classic masculine citruses (Eau Sauvage, Eau d'Hadrien, Chanel pour monsieur, Cravache).

    cacio

  12. #42
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Guys, this is really a fantastic thread!
    ScentFan, you've really lived up to your user name - I can't thank you enough for you original post and follow-ups too. What a great read!

  13. #43

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by rum View Post
    Guys, this is really a fantastic thread!
    ScentFan, you've really lived up to your user name - I can't thank you enough for you original post and follow-ups too. What a great read!
    Glad you like them, rum. Perfume is a new obsession and I wanted to know, smell and own everything instantly, but soon realized slowing down and digging in will work better for me.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Rubegon, trying to decide whether to prune this list. Maybe I'll go for the BN recommendations first then try some of the rest to see if I can tell the difference.

  14. #44
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    MDCI Chypre Palatin

    This fragrance's longevity is about 4 days.
    Basenotes sales: By Kilian Straight to Heaven, Heeley Coccobello, Many collectible/discontinued CREEDs (Vintage Tabarome, Citrus Bigarrade, Selection Verte), Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, Balenciaga Ho Hang Club, Reyane Insurrection, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://www.basenotes.net/threads/340...ciaga-SAMPLES!

    Offsite sales: By Kilian Straight to Heaven, Heeley Coccobello, Vintage Tabarome, Selection Verte, Citrus Bigarrade), Tom Ford Noir de Noir, By Kilian Prelude to Love, Bond No. 9 Hamptons, Heeley Oranges & Lemons, L'Essence de Cerruti, Balenciaga Ho Hang Club, Reyane Insurrection, numerous popular SAMPLES! http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=260 and http://flacon.ambaric.net/viewtopic.php?t=626

  15. #45

  16. #46

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Hello, BNers.

    Having consulted all inputs and searched high and low, the following 1 ml samples are either on order or I already own them -- beautiful tutors in my Learning Chypre project. Next is to organize them into meaningful groups. Um...um...I'll think of something, but they're on the way!!

    chypre.jpg
    (pic is from The Perfumed Court)


    Traditional Chypres
    (bergamot, cistus labdanum and oakmoss, usually with musk)

    *08 Une Rose Chypre, Tauer
    *Aromatics Elixir
    *Azuree, Estee Lauder
    *Bandit, Robert Piguet
    *Cosmic, Solange
    *Cristalle, EDT
    *Cuir de Russe, Chanel (vintage)
    *Diva, Ungaro
    *Hasu-No-Hana, Grossmith
    *Jubilation 25
    *Knowing, Estee Lauder
    *Lady Caron
    *Ma Griffe, Carven
    *Eau de Metal, Pace Rabanne (since I still have some)
    *Miss Balmain
    *Miss Dior
    *Paloma Picasso
    *Private Collection by Estee Lauder
    *Rochas Femme (vintage)
    *Tabac Blond, Caron


    Modern Chypres, some questionable, but it will be fun to sniff them out
    (citrus, resin, patchouli-vetiver-musk or some facsimile)

    *31 Rue Cambon
    *Anthropologie's Belle du Soir, Le Labo
    *Chypre Palatin, MDCI
    *Chypre Rouge, Serge Lutens
    *Coco Mademoiselle
    *Daim Blond
    *Eclat de Jasmin, Giorgio Armani
    *Enlevement au Serail
    *Estee Lauder White Moss
    *Fate Woman, Amouage
    *La Parfum de Therese, Frederic Malle
    *Le Labo Ylang 49
    *Mon Parfum Cheri par Camille, Annick Goutal
    *Noir Epices, Frederic Malle
    *Ormonde Jayne Tiare
    *Parfum de Grasse, DHS
    *Promesse de l’Aube
    *Rosae Mundi, Profumum Roma
    *Rose de Nuit, SL
    *Ume, Keiko Mecheria

    I started to correct spellings, but it's late. Maybe tomorrow.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 16th November 2013 at 04:50 PM. Reason: add perfume

  17. #47
    Dependent rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Nice list! That's some serious sniffing you've got lined up.

    I would say that Diva is more a traditional chypre, and Chypre Palatin more a modern one.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  18. #48

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Nice list! That's some serious sniffing you've got lined up.

    I would say that Diva is more a traditional chypre, and Chypre Palatin more a modern one.
    Merci beaucoup and muchas gracias!

  19. #49
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    I am so in love with Chypre Rouge, I'll be interested to see what you think of it. I was told it's not really a chypre, but it certainly is Cyprus. I guess it must not have the other two portions of the triad.

    You're lists look wonderful for sniffing! Do enjoy.

  20. #50
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    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Oh, and regarding Miss Dior - this is a little confusing. Dior launched a new one - this is in a bottle that has a silver bow on it, and has Natalie Portman in the ads. Completely different.

    They still make Miss Dior Originale, which is I think a de-fanged version of the original due to oakmoss restrictions.

    If you want to experience the proper Miss Dior chypre experience, you need to go vintage. The bottles with the houndstooth pattern I think are what you want. Look for a boxed mini, something like this one:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-MISS...item5af76a2e04

    I wouldn't buy one that doesn't come in a box though - it will probably be spoiled otherwise.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

  21. #51

    Default Re: Learning Chypre

    Rubegon, I ordered what I think is a vintage decant from The Perfumed Court. http://theperfumedcourt.com/Products...SSDIOREDT.aspx. Will update the sniff list with the proper names and vintages.

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