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  1. #1
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    Default Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    I'm going to continue posting my thoughts on rose perfumes in this thread, until my earlier Huddler one comes back. I'm hoping the management can merge them together at that point, and it will be like the break never happened.

    I left off with Tea Rose, and was planning to continue testing other soliflors, getting on to some more intimidating ones ...

    Guerlain Nahema

    Parfum de Toilette, 1983 vintage
    Notes: hyacinth, fruit, rose, sandalwood, patchouli, vanilla

    The notes are different everywhere I found them, and they may have changed over time - I listed the ones that were clearest to me.

    From the current Guerlain web site:


    The fairy tale is from the 1001 Nights, where the girl is one of a pair of twin princesses with very different personalities, Nahema being the fiery passionate one. The way the perfume develops when worn was inspired by Ravel's Bolero, where the theme is repeated over and over, building in intensity (this is paraphrased from Monsiuer Guerlain's excellent website - required reading!).





    Nahema
    was released in 1979, and then in 1981 it was the first Guerlain perfume to be release in the new Parfum de Toilette formulation. These were meant to have the depth of the extraits, but greater radiance and diffusivity - big booming parfums.

    Nahema opens with powder and shimmery aldehydes over a sharp, almost abrasive, green floral - I think this is what the notes lists refer to as hyacinth. It's a supra-natural hyacinth though, overdriven until it distorts. It's very dynamic, changing by the second for a while after it first hits the skin. In those first minutes, bright green rose and ripe tart fruity elements come in. On paper it seems more balanced and smooth - with the winey magenta rose and ripe fruit taking greater prominence.

    By an hour or so later, the composition has slowly converged on a smooth, waxy green rose, with rich tart fruit grounding and adding a lush sensuality. There are similarities to Chamade's heart at this point, but sweeter and with more prominent rose. On paper it seems very different. It's sharper, cooler and more watery - less fruity.

    The volume fades and the drydown starts to emerge after about 2 hours, with the guerlinade beginning to show. It's rose jam infused with creamy vanilla and a hint of wood and earthy patchouli.

    This is a very strange rose. Everything seems exaggerated and hyperreal in the early phases, with the hyacinth and rose jacked up on synthetics and mechanized like killer cyborg versions of themselves. It morphs into something more like a naturalistic fruity and greenish rose, but doesn't quite make it all the way there before making a soft landing on the sweet, creamy guerlinade base.

    Very impressive and I like watching it develop. The dry down is fantastic, as it usually is with most pre-LVMH Guerlains. I get the feeling that if I wear it fully - sprayed on skin and clothes - it would be more enjoyable to wear in the early phases. I intend to give it a full wear soon to see if it grows on me.
    Last edited by rubegon; 5th November 2013 at 12:58 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Thanks for the continuing lovely posts, rubegon - I don't remember Nahema from it's early days, although the name is familiar!

    Not much help, but here's a link to the start of the original thread - as it's in the archive, loading may be a little slow.
    If nothing else it's an intro. to those new to the thread!
    http://www.basenotes.net/huddlerarchive/382277

  3. #3
    teardrop's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Thanks for more of your wonderful descriptions rubegon, keep 'em coming!
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    I love that you're continuing this.

    My samples of Eau de Protection (Rossy de Palma), Lumiere Noire, and Rose Rebelle arrived yesterday. Tried a spray of the Eau de Protection and think you could get away with calling it a soliflore. It is peppery and there is supporting patchouli, but overall it's a big huge rose. I also found it disturbing. Not sure how to describe it...have you ever heard about the "uncanny valley" phenomenon, where people experience revulsion when faced with almost-but-not-quite human features? I wasn't repulsed by the perfume, but there was something about it that reminded me of that phenomenon. It was beautiful but I found it uncomfortable. I will try it again and hope that I can be more articulate about it!

    The fact of patchouli also reminded me of L'Artisan's Voleur de Roses, which I've never fully liked, but which might be worth mentioning here.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Your description of Nahema makes me want to revisit.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Nahema update:

    I full wore Nahema PdT today after testing on my arm and paper. I had decanted into an atomizer, so I was always spraying. I wore about 5 sprays after the testing - 3 into my shirt and one on each forearm.

    Immersion in this stuff is a very different experience. I've found this again and again. Dip your toe in and the water will often feel too cold. Jump in and, after the initial shock, many times you find it's actually very nice. I'm coming to the conclusion that you can never know how you'll really feel abut a perfume unless you surrender to it completely and see where it takes you.

    Still, Nahema is this weird cybernetic green monster at the start. Green metallic chaos formed by scaling tiny facets of the rose way out of proportion, so the flower isn't even recognizable anymore. Then this magic transformation slowly happens. Things wax and other things wane, and soon a nice rose begins to take shape. That rose is refined and elegant, resting on a subtle oriental base.

    This is a NBS rose, but it's a strange one. Rather than opening as a classic rose, it starts as a Big Bang of rose primordial goo, and then slowly coalesces to make a big, warm red giant of a rose. Very cool. I love the idea, but not sure I love the perfume. It leaves me a bit cold. I wonder if the parfum might be more my taste.

    ---o---

    Hi Kagey - we'll see how long I can keep this up. It's a lot of work! Fun, but takes time. I basically spent a whole day sniffing and thinking about Nahema, reading about it, reading about JP Guerlain, succubi, the 101 nights and damascones, I'm a JPG fanboy though, so I wanted to do my best to get this one. I won't spend as much time with most others.

    I do have a full bottle of Rossy de Palma now. I had a chance at it for a good price and the descriptions I read sounded amazing! This one is to come, and you are making me more curious to try it. Next the Caron though.

    And I got yet more samples this weekend! The minis from PK, samples from MiN including Lyric Extrait (!!!!!), and a few others. So many roses, ... you know the rest.
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon, l love your analogy about the difference between dipping your toe in the water & immersing yourself. l have experienced this phenomenon several times with different perfumes; l thought it was just me & never managed to articulate it. But you summed it up perfectly, thank you!
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post

    I do have a full bottle of Rossy de Palma now. I had a chance at it for a good price and the descriptions I read sounded amazing! This one is to come, and you are making me more curious to try it. Next the Caron though.
    I'm giving it a full wearing today and the thing I couldn't put my finger on before is metal. It's got a metallic thing happening. Which is slightly reminiscent of blood. And it seems to be changing from time to time. Here I get a sharp thorny jab, here a cloud of soft musk. And I'm really liking it a lot, so here's the dread of wanting yet another bottle!

    And your analogy about toe dipping v. immersion is so apt, even if you're only talking about testing v. wearing v. wearing repeatedly. It's such an obvious thing but really easy to overlook when you have too many bottles and rarely wear the same one twice in a row: one or two wearings won't tell you everything. But spend some real quality time with a perfume and you find out things about it that you just never will with a cursory wearing. At least that's been my experience. But I take your point about full immersion- reading everything you can get your hands on, trying different versions/concentrations, etc. As with other forms of art, the knowledge enhances the experience.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon - I'm really enjoying your experience with Nahema! I got some 80s pdt last year, and although I thought it was love at first sniff, it's been sort of up and down ever since. Like yours, one of my first impressions was of Chamade, an absolute favorite of mine (I've had a bottle since I was six yrs old, so I'm very familiar with it) but it seems as soon as I recognize that gorgeous hyacinth-lead accord it completely vanishes, like I just imagined or wished for it, but it's quickly replaced by whatever make Mitsouko so damn sour on me - hmph! I was so hoping it would be a rose, albeit a weird rose, version of Chamade, but it's turned out to be Mitsouko Rose, to my nose, on some days. It seem to be less shrilly sour and Mitsouko-y when it's cooler out. I have the same hit and miss relationship with Mits, though - some days it sings, other days it shrieks, so I'm not surprised Nahema behaves the same way.

    Kagey - it's supposed to be a blood accord! I adore Rossy de Palma, and I recognize that metallic thing you're talking about, but it just doesn't strike me as bloody at all, or at least it does't bother me at all, but I think I must be in the minority because I'm always reading about it and how unnerving it can be. I get all geranium, or pelargonium I think, the velvety, thick and tender leaves, and Rossy has the same spicy meatiness that makes me want to bite those leaves, plus lots of rose and pepper. And it's the most unisex rose I own, but it's just so damn good I can't imagine it not being fantastic on everyone. I very highly recommend it!
    Science is not only compatible with spirituality, it is a profound source of spirituality. When we recognize our place in an immensity of light-years and in the passage of ages, when we grasp the intricacy, beauty, and subtlety of life, then that soaring feeling, that sense of elation and humility combined, is surely spiritual. ..Carl Sagan

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeline View Post

    Kagey - it's supposed to be a blood accord! I adore Rossy de Palma, and I recognize that metallic thing you're talking about, but it just doesn't strike me as bloody at all, or at least it does't bother me at all, but I think I must be in the minority because I'm always reading about it and how unnerving it can be.
    Well that's what I get for not reading up first! There's a similar metallic aspect to La Fille de Berlin, but that aspect is much more fleeting and the rose there is sweeter and maybe has a bit of violet too. It's also possible that I was more conditioned to perceive blood in Rossy de Palma because of the association with That Other Perfume from ELd'O. Either way, I'm liking it more and more, and in some ways it's nice to have my perceptions "confirmed" by other sources.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Nahema update:

    Immersion in this stuff is a very different experience. I've found this again and again. Dip your toe in and the water will often feel too cold. Jump in and, after the initial shock, many times you find it's actually very nice. I'm coming to the conclusion that you can never know how you'll really feel abut a perfume unless you surrender to it completely and see where it takes you.
    I can certainly see that this is true. I find it difficult at times to know how I really feel about a scent without dousing myself in at least 6 sprays, but by the then, the sample I got is gone, so I tend to be stingy and try to determine how I feel about it from a more modest wearing. It's frustrating. I know I really need more than one wearing to KNOW if a scent is for me. The first kiss is always sublime with one that tickles my fancy, but sometimes the subsequent kisses are rather messy and I feel like slobber has been left behind. It's only when the second and third kiss are BETTER than the first that I know I should purchase a FB.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    OK - taking some time at lunch to catch up with comments!

    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    Your description of Nahema makes me want to revisit.
    Do it! It's worth spending some time with it even if ultimately it's not a keeper for you.


    Quote Originally Posted by teardrop View Post
    Rubegon, l love your analogy about the difference between dipping your toe in the water & immersing yourself. l have experienced this phenomenon several times with different perfumes; l thought it was just me & never managed to articulate it. But you summed it up perfectly, thank you!
    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    And your analogy about toe dipping v. immersion is so apt, even if you're only talking about testing v. wearing v. wearing repeatedly. It's such an obvious thing but really easy to overlook when you have too many bottles and rarely wear the same one twice in a row: one or two wearings won't tell you everything. But spend some real quality time with a perfume and you find out things about it that you just never will with a cursory wearing. At least that's been my experience. But I take your point about full immersion- reading everything you can get your hands on, trying different versions/concentrations, etc. As with other forms of art, the knowledge enhances the experience.
    This has been bouncing around in my head for a while, and it finally gelled with this wearing of Nahema so soon after testing. I tested in what I thought was a thorough and analytical way - on skin and a test strip, with notebook in hand. Many times in the past I would test something on my hand, conclude I did or didn't like it, and then at some point later I'd wear it and feel completely different about it.

    I think that when you're testing, you take in the perfume as a series of vignettes. You spray and sniff, then 10 minutes later do it again, and so on and so on. It's like trying to appreciate a film by popping in from the lobby every so often. You never get the flow of it. You're a tourist. When you wear it properly, you get the whole thing in context and it give you a chance to get used to the little idiosyncrasies that may be off-putting at first.

    Another thought - does selective anosmia affect our perception of a scent when we wear it? When I test something I try to make sure I don't get anosmic so that my perception of it is accurate. I'll take a whiff and then stay away from it for a while before sniffing again.

    If you become anosmic to some molecule in the scent, maybe that's what's supposed to happen. It wouldn't be a shock me to learn that JPG balanced the composition in consideration of selective anosmia. Then again, that would only apply to the wearer, so I may be completely wrong about that. I guess the "sniff and walk away" approach represents more what another person would experience.

    Bottom line for me is that if I want to evaluate something that I might wear for myself, I'll wear it. I planned to speed this up by doubling up scents to do 2 (or even 3 or 4) at a time. Now I think I'll stick to one.



    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeline View Post
    Rubegon - I'm really enjoying your experience with Nahema! I got some 80s pdt last year, and although I thought it was love at first sniff, it's been sort of up and down ever since. Like yours, one of my first impressions was of Chamade, an absolute favorite of mine (I've had a bottle since I was six yrs old, so I'm very familiar with it) but it seems as soon as I recognize that gorgeous hyacinth-lead accord it completely vanishes, like I just imagined or wished for it, but it's quickly replaced by whatever make Mitsouko so damn sour on me - hmph! I was so hoping it would be a rose, albeit a weird rose, version of Chamade, but it's turned out to be Mitsouko Rose, to my nose, on some days. It seem to be less shrilly sour and Mitsouko-y when it's cooler out. I have the same hit and miss relationship with Mits, though - some days it sings, other days it shrieks, so I'm not surprised Nahema behaves the same way.
    Thank you Evangeline! I'm learning so much from this experience, I think I'd do this even if no one was reading and commenting. That would be a pretty lonely exercise though. It's a lot nicer to have some folks to chat with as I go along and exchange ideas with. :-)

    We seem to be enjoy hanging around in different wings of maison de Guerlain.

    I have a Chamade PdT that I've struggled with since I got it. I appreciate it, but don't really enjoy it much. I'm just not wired to appreciate it like many others. I don't enjoy that dense sappy green element - the Guerlain take on a dense green heart accord. That's what it shares with Nahema to my nose, and it's the thing that keeps me from loving Nahema as well. Ultimately, I'll probably keep both, but I doubt I'll ever have to replace them. I may change my mind on Nahema yet - I feel like I need to try the parfum before I decide. I have a vintage Chamade parfum I haven't opened yet too - I keep eyeing that one wondering if I would regret breaking the seal on it.

    Mitsouko on the other hand works beautifully for me always, in all proper vintages and concentrations. I have an EdP that is a couple years old that smells like a designer knock-off of itself, but all of the others always push my happy buttons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    I can certainly see that this is true. I find it difficult at times to know how I really feel about a scent without dousing myself in at least 6 sprays, but by the then, the sample I got is gone, so I tend to be stingy and try to determine how I feel about it from a more modest wearing. It's frustrating. I know I really need more than one wearing to KNOW if a scent is for me. The first kiss is always sublime with one that tickles my fancy, but sometimes the subsequent kisses are rather messy and I feel like slobber has been left behind. It's only when the second and third kiss are BETTER than the first that I know I should purchase a FB.
    Exactly! First impression can be misleading, in either direction.

    For most of the rose perfumes I'm going to test, I've tried to get 5ml decants or minis. In the case of something like Lyric woman, I've ordered a 5ml decant of the EdP, and I'm getting a small sample of the extrait. I can probably get a good idea from one wear of the extrait after getting to know the EdP.

    I'm going to start being more disciplined about FB buys too - for somethinng expensive and/or that I can't resell/swap with minimal loss, I'll only buy bottles after going through a decant and wanting more!
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Hi Rubegon. Is this the thread that was coming over from Huddler, the sister thread to your rose soliflor excercise? I think that it is. I'm pleased that I have found it. Really lovely posts.

    Oh ppppfffftthrrrrrt. Just ignore me. I started at Nahema! Now when I look back I can see that this is not your Huddler thread. Sorreeeee.
    Last edited by Foustie; 4th November 2013 at 06:17 PM.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2


    No worries Foustie. I've made this very confusing now!

    For anyone else that might be wondering what's going on:

    1. I started the first rose perfume exploration thread on huddler - the first "Stat rosa pristina...". I started it by testing soliflors to learn the note without undue distraction. lpp linked to the huddlerarchive version of it upthread.

    2. After the switch to vintage BN I started the soliflor thread to discuss ideas about what makes a soliflor, as the ones I had been testing were all so different.

    3. Now I've resumed the stream of the first thread here is "Stat rosa pristina ... Part 2" which I hope can be merged with the 1st one later.


    I'm thinking of MCing a sample pass when I've finished this. I'll have a bunch of bottles and decants, and it would be nice to share with anyone that might not have access to some of them. Maybe two blind passes - BS and NBS roses at the same time? See if you can name the roses? Would that be fun?
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon, your movie analogy is great. I will probably use that one.

    Also, I wore Tocade on Sunday, and thought that maybe that should go into the mix. It's Rochas's masterpiece (according to Turin) rose and vanilla. It's one of my go-to perfumes for any day when I'm feeling picky, or don't want to think too much about the perfume, but just enjoy it. My well-fitting jeans of perfume. But to me the rose is hidden. I can't smell it like I can smell rose in other perfumes. It's so fully blended into the slightly burned buttery-sweet composition.

    I think Rossy will get another wearing today. Thank FIF for their big samples!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    I think a sample pass is a lovely idea. Just read through again and I like what you said about just wearing one at a time. I too become impatient and want to try them all at once, but the nose gets tired and can't quite tell what it is experiencing!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    l'm a "one at a time" girl these days, too. When you often get so little in a sample vial, it seems a waste not to give each one your full attention.
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    I'm also testing rose raw materials as part of this exercise. I bugged the DIY crew for advice and have about a dozen natural and synthetic rose components in hand or on the way.

    I'm thinking of a (probably too) elaborate sample pass with 4 sets of samples: literal soliflores, abstract soliflores, raw materials, and BS roses. Circulate them around to 4 or more people ... something like that .... I'm thinking "out loud" here.



    Thanks Kagey! You just made me blind buy Tocade! How could I not? It was so cheap!
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    That sounds like fun Rubegon! I like the idea of doing it in the categories.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Caron Rose

    Rose was released in 1949. The perfumer was Michel Morsetti, who replaced founding nose Ernest Daltroff. This was released in the same year as Or et Noir. I still haven't sniffed Or et Noir (it's on the way), but from what I've read about it, it seems these were meant to complement each other - a bright rose and a dark one. Rose is discontinued now - I tested a recent vintage EdP. I'm fairly certain that what I have is not much like the one released over 60 years ago, but can't say for sure.


    I'll be honest. I'm not a big fan of Caron. I've known that since I was a baby perfumisto, when a lanky long-haired boheme nouveau perfume shaman helped me along on my vision quest to find my true perfume identity. The heart of Caron is too dense, viscous and opaque for my taste. Between Caron and Guerlain it's like a Beatles / Stones thing, and I know in my bones I'm a Stones man.




    So this was almost … an obligation? How could I not try the Caron rose? It must be "significant," right? But ...


    This is … not what I expected.

    I thought this would be a dense sappy rose on a caronade base.

    Welllll, it kind of is.

    It starts as a thick green sappy rose, but the green isn't sharp or spicy. It's waxy - creamy almost. Some orris smoothing everything out maybe. That works for me. I don't love green notes, and this is like putting butter on your veg. This is about what I'd hope for in a Caron rose, and the velvety smoothing effect improves the green rose, at least for me.

    There's a citrus accent in the opening that gives a halo effect, lightening and brightening. There's also a hint of something airy and cool giving it a bit of transparency. I thought it might be eucalyptus, but I guess it's mint from the notes lists.

    This rose infused dense resinous base with a bright sharp top creates an interesting effect. It took me a while to place it, but then it came to me. It reminds me of Habit Rouge. The details aren't the same, but the overall effect bears an uncanny resemblance to HR. There are similarities in the base, especially since Rose adds a big dose of sweet vanilla to the dense caronade, and the citric chorus of HR's explosive opening is effectively subbed by the more demure accord of lemon and mint.

    After about 2 hours on my skin it moves into the dry down, losing all of the green sappiness. What's left is a nice rosewater candyfloss that hangs close to the skin for a few more hours.

    It's not a soliflore to me - neither literal, nor conceptual. It's a clear BS rose - dense, heady caronade with green rose , a bright mint/citrus top and a vanilla dry down.
    Last edited by rubegon; 11th November 2013 at 04:51 AM.
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  21. #21
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Really enjoying reading your reviews Rubegon! Thanks for posting them.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Wingie View Post
    Really enjoying reading your reviews Rubegon! Thanks for posting them.
    Thanks Wingie, for reading and for the kind words!

    I've finished testing Creed Fleur de The Rose Bulgare - it's too late to compile my notes now, so I'll post that one tomorrow. That one IS a soliflore, though! I meant to do all soliflores first, but the Caron fooled me. Back on track!

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    I'm using a new desktop wallpaper.

    scarlet_rose_macro-wallpaper-1680x1050.jpg

    http://wallpaperswide.com/scarlet_ro...allpapers.html
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    Caron Rose

    This rose infused dense resinous base with a bright sharp top creates an interesting effect. It took me a while to place it, but then it came to me. It reminds me of Habit Rouge. The details aren't the same, but the overall effect bears an uncanny resemblance to HR. There are similarities in the base, especially since Rose adds a big dose of sweet vanilla to the dense caronade, and the citric chorus of HR's explosive opening is effectively subbed by the more demure accord of lemon and mint.
    This increases my interest in trying this one now. I have Habit Rouge on the way to me so I can make a comparison.

    Have you tried Montale's Highness Rose? I came across it at The Perfume Shoppe and it actually reminds me of Mogador, but I think it's more intense. It certainly feels like a soliflor, but doesn't come off as full of Iso Super E like Une Rose does. Montale seems to be really into sweet so I'm not sure if that would be your thing, but it is interesting and it's acclaimed as a pure rose by some.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Creed Fleur de Thé Rose Bulgare

    That's Bulgarian Tea Rose, according to the Creed site, by the way - not The Bulgarian Rose, or Bulgarian Rose and Tea. I was a little confused. In case anyone else is, I thought I'd mention that.

    I've never heard of Bulgarian Tea Roses, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I know Bulgarian Damascus rose is used to make "tea", so maybe that's what they mean.

    According to the Basenotes FD, this was launched in 1890. It was discontinued a few years ago, and now has returned to the lineup in a different flacon. I have the one from the pre-discontinuation bottle (just a little while before the discontinuation - not like 100 years or anything) that looks like this:




    But not mine. Mine looks like this:




    According to the Creed copy:

    Fleur de The Rose Bulgare was made for the wife of a historic U.S. President. The distinguished lady from New York first encountered Creed on her extended honeymoon in Europe. When she returned to America, she wrote to the House of Creed requesting a custom fragrance made with Bulgarian tea roses she had smelled during her sojourn abroad. . .
    *sigh*

    Excuse me while I fact check a bit.

    -- o --

    OK - they must mean Edith Roosevelt. She's the only first lady married close to the 1890 "release date" that was from New York. She was raised in New York City, married Teddy in December 1886 in London, and they had a long honeymoon in Europe (at least a couple of months), including a long stay in Paris. Here are Teddy's letters home from his honeymoon - maybe someone wants to read through them to see if he name drops Creed. Maybe he picked up a bottle of Green Irish Tweed?

    And here's the lady.



    Nice story. I think it's complete hogwash, of course. But that doesn't matter. The juice is good. And that's all that matters.


    -- o --

    The notes on the Creed site are:
    Top note: Bergamot, citrus notes
    Middle note: Chinese green tea, Bulgarian rose
    Base note: Ambergris

    Now this is for the current one, and I hear it's different than the older green flacon one, so this may not fit.

    It opens green, a bit on the vegetal side, sharp. There's some citrus adding some brightness. There's harsh rose noise under that. I feel this was composed to get the rose heart accord just right, and the opening is a bit of collateral damage. It's not terrible, but doesn't seem like it was meant to smell this way. My guess is that there's a big dose of rose absolute or some other natural rose extract. I've just started to tinker with these naturals, but these materials have many different molecules, and some don't smell nice as they first start to evaporate.

    Anyway, that doesn't last long. About 30 minutes later when it settles down, it's as close as I've smelled to a natural rose scent so far. It's a clean, pink rose - dewey, fresh, a little fruity. Very realistic. It's absolutely lovely. I've been wearing it on and off for several days now, with the Caron mixed in there a couple of times.

    It's not just that the scent is accurate. Roses smell a lot of different ways, and I can't tell you which one this smells like, but I would absolutely believe that this is some kind of actual rose if I sniffed it blind. So there's that. But it smells realistic in an unforced way. The way it gently wafts off the skin is pitch perfect. It doesn't assault the nose, while not being a meek wallflower either. It's effortlessly graceful.

    Not much of a dry down - the "ambergris" is just some nice synthetic I guess to help it hold the note just that bit longer. Gone in about 3 hours from my skin. Longer on clothes.

    This is a straight up linear, literal rose soliflore, and a very good one. Not many "serious" perfume houses do this style - not artistic enough, I guess. This one is earns its place by just being perfectly realistic in character and presence. Excellent.




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    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    This increases my interest in trying this one now. I have Habit Rouge on the way to me so I can make a comparison.

    Have you tried Montale's Highness Rose? I came across it at The Perfume Shoppe and it actually reminds me of Mogador, but I think it's more intense. It certainly feels like a soliflor, but doesn't come off as full of Iso Super E like Une Rose does. Montale seems to be really into sweet so I'm not sure if that would be your thing, but it is interesting and it's acclaimed as a pure rose by some.
    I found some! I have it coming soon. I'm really looking forward to this one too!
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Thanks for the update!

    Since last here I ended up buying Rossy de Palma.

    And just tested PHI - Rose de Kandahar. Not wild about it. It starts off promising, with roses scattered among the spice market stalls, but the rose vanishes quite quickly and it ends up smelling a lot like Maroc Pour Elle (I think - is that the one that smells like a head shop?), with that classic Andy Tauer-esque musk drydown.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Wonderful posts, Rubegon and, yes, thoroughness takes enormous time I've also found. I've been busy of late or I'd be contributing to this great thread. Hopefully tomorrow. That's probably good advice about testing a perfume fully. So far I'm having three reactions to new scents 1) pretty okay, which means I shortly forget the thing exists, 2) immediate, violent love or 3) immediate, passionate hate. Ah, one more category. 4) perfumes I'll never forget, but that just aren't for me, like Diaghilev. I hated Keiko Mecheri's Jasmine so much I had to physically get it out of the house. As a life-long reasonable person, such strong reactions are new to me. However, I must say they're more fun!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    Thanks for the update!

    Since last here I ended up buying Rossy de Palma.

    And just tested PHI - Rose de Kandahar. Not wild about it. It starts off promising, with roses scattered among the spice market stalls, but the rose vanishes quite quickly and it ends up smelling a lot like Maroc Pour Elle (I think - is that the one that smells like a head shop?), with that classic Andy Tauer-esque musk drydown.
    I received my Phi sample as well. I do like the scent, though it reminds me quite a bit of Brulere de Rose by PG. I also felt like it was nearly identical to Tauer's other rose creations, at least the two I've tried (Une Rose Chyrpe and Une Rose Vermeille). If I decide I like it enough, I may purchase a FB of that rather than the others as you get more for the $$. I do think that the rose was fleeting and even a bit uncertain. I had an interesting experience. Yesterday I wore 21 Costume National. At the end of the day, it wore off and I sprayed a bit of Cabotine Rose on it and found the smell to be very similar to the Phi. I did wonder whether my nose might be playing tricks on me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    So far I'm having three reactions to new scents 1) pretty okay, which means I shortly forget the thing exists, 2) immediate, violent love or 3) immediate, passionate hate. Ah, one more category. 4) perfumes I'll never forget, but that just aren't for me, like Diaghilev.
    This sounds about right for me as well.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    [CENTER][B]Creed [COLOR=#990033][I]Fleur de Thé Rose Bulgare
    I need to retest this. You do a great job of tempting me sir!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am testing Annick Goutal Rose Absolue today, having purchased a sample.

    So far, I'm finding that it opens very like many of the very true to actual rose scents. I'd say it's extremely true, as I expected from the listed notes. I am not experiencing anything that develops into something else, which also is expected. It smells like a super sweetened version of a rose bouquet. Not like any one particular rose, but a conglomeration of roses from the garden. I believe I detect the same Iso Super E that I detected in Une Rose (FM) and which I found ultimately doesn't work for my skin.

    The scent is very nice, but not interesting enough to hold my attention. I'm finding that I prefer a Rose that has more going on than just a rose. I find that in life as well, I prefer a bouquet of mixed flowers with a rose or two thrown in to just the rose.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    image.jpg This one is really beautiful and nice and clean but not soapy it's kind of ozoney and not too much it's very beautiful unfortunately what I'm looking for is a candle.

    *for best results hold sideways.

    Dans La Nuit Vers Le Jour Sans Adieu Je Reviens Vers Toi.


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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post
    Thanks for the update!

    Since last here I ended up buying Rossy de Palma.

    And just tested PHI - Rose de Kandahar. Not wild about it. It starts off promising, with roses scattered among the spice market stalls, but the rose vanishes quite quickly and it ends up smelling a lot like Maroc Pour Elle (I think - is that the one that smells like a head shop?), with that classic Andy Tauer-esque musk drydown.

    I'm like you. I got Rossy and tested PHI and wasn't blown away. I need to give it a full wear though. I did get a nice holographic apricot in there for a moment.

    What do you think of Rossy? I just gave it a quick whiff and liked what I smelt. Cool, modern, unsentimental. Strong. Bloody/metallic rose.


    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    So far I'm having three reactions to new scents 1) pretty okay, which means I shortly forget the thing exists, 2) immediate, violent love or 3) immediate, passionate hate. Ah, one more category. 4) perfumes I'll never forget, but that just aren't for me, like Diaghilev.

    I know what you mean. That pretty much sums it up. The crazy thing you probably haven't realized yet, is that all those reactions are going to get completely rearranged after a while. It happens constantly, in fact. Well, it does if you're like me. A year from now you could very well be on a naturals binge or in a leather obsession. Who knows?


    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post
    I also felt like it was nearly identical to Tauer's other rose creations, at least the two I've tried (Une Rose Chyrpe and Une Rose Vermeille).


    I've only briefly tested the chypre, but I have samples of all now. I found the Chypre to be completely different from PHI, but only tested each briefly. I think I'm going to do the Tauers all at the same time to compare them. Maybe I'll do that next. I'm getting a little bored of all the soliflores, to be honest. Maybe time to come up for air.




    Quote Originally Posted by danieq View Post

    I need to retest this. You do a great job of tempting me sir!

    - - - Updated - - -

    I am testing Annick Goutal Rose Absolue today, having purchased a sample.
    ...
    The scent is very nice, but not interesting enough to hold my attention. I'm finding that I prefer a Rose that has more going on than just a rose. I find that in life as well, I prefer a bouquet of mixed flowers with a rose or two thrown in to just the rose.

    Sorry about the Creed. :-)
    I was predisposed to not like it, but it won me over after wearing it a couple of days.

    Ultimately, I think I like more complex perfumes more as well. I can't wait to test some of the ones I have lined up. But I'm sure I'll find some great loves in the BS rose category. Big, dark, dramatic roses.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fleurine View Post
    image.jpg This one is really beautiful and nice and clean but not soapy it's kind of ozoney and not too much it's very beautiful unfortunately what I'm looking for is a candle.

    *for best results hold sideways.
    Hi F!
    Is this the guy with the barrel shaped bottles with the black dome caps, like little R2D2s? I checked out his line at Neimann recently and I couldn't find a rose.

    I don't know any good rose candles at all. Maybe someone else reading along will chime in.

    One thing I have been burning regularly though is a rose incense that Victoria makes. It's on her cool stuff web shop: http://www.beatnikemptiness.com/collections/fragrance

    The one I like was a prototype - called Se Vard. It's kind of a dark smoky rose. She still doesn't have it on the site, but maybe you can ask for it.

    If I were looking for a candle the first place I'd try is Diptyque - they have a Geranium Rosa and a Roses. Have you sniffed these?

    - - - Updated - - -

    And a Muget!!!

    http://www.diptyqueparis.com/home-fragrances/candles.html

    - - - Updated - - -

    An have you tried the Malle one, by Benaim? Rosa Rugosa?

    http://www.aedes.com/Rosa-Rugosa_p_770.html

    The dry, cold, almost astringent-like scent of these wild rose bushes which grow against the wind on the Atlantic coast. The reconstitution of the fragrance of these ancestral roses was developed by Carlos Benaïm “au nez”, just by using his nose, much like how an artist would design an object.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon; l've just read a review of Phaedon's Rouge Avignon over at Olfactoria's Travels, posted on November 7th. lt sounds like a BS rose that's worth trying. l'd love to hear your take on this one if you get the chance to try it!
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by teardrop View Post
    Rubegon; l've just read a review of Phaedon's Rouge Avignon over at Olfactoria's Travels, posted on November 7th. lt sounds like a BS rose that's worth trying. l'd love to hear your take on this one if you get the chance to try it!
    Great thread again Rubegon and wonderful contributions. Thank you all so much.

    (((Teardrop))) wore Rouge Avignon about a week ago. It is beautiful ......at first application it can be confusing as the raspberry is so evident. But after ten minutes the rose appears with the ylang ylang and thankfully never leaves. It's a real gourmand and the first time I have ever had a hint of truffle with rose(whch I thought would be a no go for me) but it works beautifully. The rose doesn't seem to disappear on me, but the dry down with the hinoki and sandalwood are just beautiful.

    Am so impressed with the divine Pierre for this perfume. It's not shy at all, you only need two sprays of this, but very beautiful....be warned!

    hugs

    sea roses
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    Great thread again Rubegon and wonderful contributions. Thank you all so much.

    (((Teardrop))) wore Rouge Avignon about a week ago. It is beautiful ......at first application it can be confusing as the raspberry is so evident. But after ten minutes the rose appears with the ylang ylang and thankfully never leaves. It's a real gourmand and the first time I have ever had a hint of truffle with rose(whch I thought would be a no go for me) but it works beautifully. The rose doesn't seem to disappear on me, but the dry down with the hinoki and sandalwood are just beautiful.

    Am so impressed with the divine Pierre for this perfume. It's not shy at all, you only need two sprays of this, but very beautiful....be warned!

    hugs

    sea roses
    Nice to see you here SeaRoses! Rubegon has done a lovely job with these threads hasn't he. He's helping me spend all my money! LOL

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Hello ((((((Danieq)))))

    Yes Rubegon is doing a wonderful job.........making basenotes lovely and interesting!

    Sadly I can't blame him for costing me money on perfume......I seem to be managing fine on my own.

    Have a blessed Sunday lovely girl

    searosesxxxxx
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    Great thread again Rubegon and wonderful contributions. Thank you all so much.

    (((Teardrop))) wore Rouge Avignon about a week ago. It is beautiful ......at first application it can be confusing as the raspberry is so evident. But after ten minutes the rose appears with the ylang ylang and thankfully never leaves. It's a real gourmand and the first time I have ever had a hint of truffle with rose(whch I thought would be a no go for me) but it works beautifully. The rose doesn't seem to disappear on me, but the dry down with the hinoki and sandalwood are just beautiful.

    Am so impressed with the divine Pierre for this perfume. It's not shy at all, you only need two sprays of this, but very beautiful....be warned!

    hugs

    sea roses
    Thanks Sea Roses! This one really does sound beautiful, & "not shy" is right up my street. Definitely going on my next sample order.
    Hugs back!
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post

    I've only briefly tested the chypre, but I have samples of all now. I found the Chypre to be completely different from PHI, but only tested each briefly. I think I'm going to do the Tauers all at the same time to compare them. Maybe I'll do that next. I'm getting a little bored of all the soliflores, to be honest. Maybe time to come up for air.
    Well I take it back. I think the first sample I got was mixed up. At any rate, tried the Chypre today and as you said, it's completely and totally different. Actually, something about the character of this reminds me of Amouage Epic Woman. Of course, now I want to know what was in the other sample I had. This one came straight from Andy Tauer so I'm going to assume it's true. The other was from Lucky Scent and smells entirely different.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    I'm like you. I got Rossy and tested PHI and wasn't blown away. I need to give it a full wear though. I did get a nice holographic apricot in there for a moment.

    What do you think of Rossy? I just gave it a quick whiff and liked what I smelt. Cool, modern, unsentimental. Strong. Bloody/metallic rose.
    PHI was great for the first five or ten minutes, I thought. But that's because I wanted the rose. The rose is beautiful at the beginning. I wore Une Rose Chypree yesterday and really enjoyed its warmth. Samples of that and Rose Vermeille are out and ready for testing this week...

    And yes to Rossy. I still find it unsettling but I've enjoyed wearing it a few times over the past week or so.

    You've got to try La Fille de Berlin!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Kagey View Post

    ...

    You've got to try La Fille de Berlin!
    Good idea!

    Serge Lutens La Fille de Berlin and Rose de Nuit.

    I'm testing these head to head - one on each arm. I'll full wear each one later in the week as well. I got decants of both of these. Both are the currently available versions.





    I came in expecting LFdB to be a youthful, sweet fruity rose, and RdN to be the dark, sultry intimate one. That's not quite what I got.

    LFdB is very appealing right from the opening. This is a BS rose I can get into. It's starts with a big sweet, rosé winey rose, that quickly darkens and gets denser. Within a few minutes it's a dark, rich magenta magenta rose with a sense of ripe, almost fermented red fruits. This is the ultimate dark, sweet, jammy rose. It stays that way for a while, gradually getting a bit dryer. After a while a green sappy element starts to come out, but its subtle, toning down the sweetness nicely.

    RdN opens immediately as a fruity rose chypre, bright citrus and smooth earthy moss giving it range, with an intoxicating deep red winey rose in the middle. The chypre effect is very true to me, much more substantial than many of the new style chypres, and that gives it a bit more of a formal, airy feel than I expected. It's a bit like a sparer, less organic Jubilation 25. The transition to the heart is smooth and subtle - it loses a bit of sharpness and feels fuller, with a dense dark rose toned down by a tart chypric quality. A couple of hours in, it starts to get a bit woody/patchy, and loses a bit of it's charm for me.

    Overall, I felt a little disappointed with RdN. I wanted it to feel less formal - more wanton. The vintage sample I have seemed more animalic and bolder - I'll retest later in the week and compare the 2 vintages to see how they seem in direct comparison.

    I'll probably end up getting a bottle of LFdB. If I had to pick a favorite Lutens rose right now, that would have to be it (and it's only about $65!!! bucks online these days - how is that possible?).


    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by teardrop View Post
    Rubegon; l've just read a review of Phaedon's Rouge Avignon over at Olfactoria's Travels, posted on November 7th. lt sounds like a BS rose that's worth trying. l'd love to hear your take on this one if you get the chance to try it!
    Oh, no! Not another one! I'm already drowning in roses! ;-)

    I haven't tested the Phaedon line at all actually. I like Pierre Guillaume, and find many of his scents to be very likable while still being unique. Rouge Avignon sounds great! I'll keep an eye out for it - thanks for the tip, teardrop!

    A couple of others that are interesting - I have a partial bottle of Montale Highness Rose on the way!! And also a decant of Aerin Lauder's Evening Rose, which I tested today at Neiman Marcus and enjoyed quite a bit.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Just popping in to mention that Mona di Orio's 'Etoile de Hollande' is not (to me) a very rose-orientated scent - light peach & aldehydes, heliotrope, many other things along the line but with only the occasional whiff of rose, despite bearing the name of a very fragrant rose.

    And to danieq - apologies for not responding to one of your posts in all of the confusion yesterday - it was not intentional!
    Last edited by lpp; 18th November 2013 at 01:42 PM.

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    And to danieq - apologies for not responding to one of your posts in all of the confusion yesterday - it was not intentional!
    No worries at all. In fact, I'm not sure which post you are referring too. This place hops and it's easy to miss and forget which questions you may have asked/answered. All is well!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Just popping in to mention that Mona di Orio's 'Etoile de Hollande' is not (to me) a very rose-orientated scent - light peach & aldehydes, heliotrope, many other things along the line but with only the occasional whiff of rose, despite bearing the name of a very fragrant rose.
    I looked into this one, largely because of what I heard about the flower. I lost interest quickly after reading a few reviews. Was this released posthumously? I think I read speculation that it might have been an incomplete composition that was in development when she died.
    Last edited by rubegon; 18th November 2013 at 07:44 PM.
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by rubegon View Post
    I looked into this one, largely because of what I hard about the flower. I lost interest quickly after reading a few reviews. Was this released posthumously? I think I read speculation that it might have been an incomplete composition that was in development when she died.

    Yes, that does appear to be the case, Rubegon - mostly mentioning it here as it was mentioned somewhere in one of these threads as being on my sample list!

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon and anyone interested I posted this bottle of FdB in collections, but perhaps it is more relevant here.

    My fiancé really struggles with Rose de Nuit and like myself loves *the rose scent* . For him there are only two that he finds outstanding...Une Rose and FdB! He doesn't get my Rose de Nuit at all.


    Don't think you will at all be disappointed with a FB of FdB.

    regards

    sea roses

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    I so much enjoy following this marvellous thread, rubegon! I can relate to your experience with Nahema, PdT. And Rossy de Palma went straight on my test list.
    Un parfum doit avant tout sent bon. - Guy Robert -

    On the EU's amendment to sharpen restrictions on fragrance allergens

  44. #44
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    rubegon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Quote Originally Posted by Sea Roses View Post
    Rubegon and anyone interested I posted this bottle of FdB in collections, but perhaps it is more relevant here.

    My fiancé really struggles with Rose de Nuit and like myself loves *the rose scent* . For him there are only two that he finds outstanding...Une Rose and FdB! He doesn't get my Rose de Nuit at all.


    Don't think you will at all be disappointed with a FB of FdB.

    regards

    sea roses

    PB193532_2.jpgPB193522.jpgPB193513.jpgPB193531.jpg
    You have one of the limited bottles of La Fille de Berlin?!?! That is insane!!! This one is gorgeous too. If I could have one of the limited bottles, this would be near the top of the list.

    How did you get it, if you don't mind saying?

    I'll probably end up buying both of the Lutens roses I don't have - they're both fantastic!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by mia von trost View Post
    I so much enjoy following this marvellous thread, rubegon! I can relate to your experience with Nahema, PdT. And Rossy de Palma went straight on my test list.
    Thank you Mia Von Trost! I still haven't properly tested Rossy, but will get to it soon. That one and Rosam may be next. Unless Highness Rose arrives before then...
    - - - - - - - - - - - - -

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    Default Re: Stat rosa pristina nomine - Part 2

    Rubegon, l tried Une Rose today, all because of your wonderful description of it in your original post in part one of this thread. l've posted my impressions in the Sample of the Day thread, but l just wanted to say here that it didn't disappoint, & thank you for drawing my attention to it!

    How are you getting on with all your many new samples?
    "What is this secret connection between the soul, and sea, clouds and perfumes? The soul itself appears to be sea, cloud and perfume..." - from Zorba the Greek by Nikos Kazantzakis.

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