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  1. #1
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    Default Lasting lavender

    I'm looking for some things to make a lavender cologne anybody know of some things to help
    Extend it's staying power also any recommendations of what goes well in a lavender scent. Any interesting formulas

  2. #2

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Lavender Absolute, or Lavandin Absolute will help. As will Coumarin, or Tonka Abs. Clary Sage will help the Top note to last. Try combining your Lavender oil with Geranium and Bergamot. Hedione is always useful, in anything.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Sounds good thanks. The hedione adds what to the blend? Is it an all purpose fixative?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    It is a fixative, brings a sweet floral quality to any fragrance, and has the ability to increase the diffusion of a fragrance. It isn't vital, but I have found it is often useful. Try a simple blend with and without Hedione (try about 2.0%), and see what the difference is.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Right now I am forgetting my lavender studies results (such as David is reporting, and I think I drew a couple of the same conclusions) due to brain fog, but I do remember begrudgingly concluding sandalwood had a role -- I was angry about that because of previous frustrations working with the pair. In part, that's because there is a soapy note that lavender and sandal sort of both have. Frankincense also suggests this kind of soapy note.

    Rose can always support lavender. Clary, like David says. I do believe the creamy notes like Tonka that David mentioned were in there. I swear I studied lavender and came up with a whole list, darn it... David will support me in saying you always want to rely on your own studies before anyone else's ideas -- so try it yourself. Get some lavender and smell away.

    But the one interesting idea I have is to search Luca Turin's comments on the musks. He talks about one of the common synthetic musks -- was it galaxolide or something? His comment was regarding a monastery that made a wonderful lavender perfume out of I think two ingredients? Lavender and this musk, whatever it was... It should be easy to track down. Probably everybody remembers it but me.

    In that regard, in my opinion, an important principle for working with lavender is that its freshening power is so great -- I am reminded of the book Jitterbug Perfume and the smell of Pan here -- and also its eminently appropriate role in making douches (!) -- that it is quite easy to mix it with anything musky and essentially neutralize the musk. It's the idea of a douche. I can imagine cumin would also be interesting in that regard (need I expand on why?). In my studies I found that its role in perfuming was virtually unique in that regard. Your mileage may vary...

    And I would be remiss if I didn't mention that there is a whole class of classical perfume - the fougere (sorry I don't know how to type accents for correct French) based on lavender. So you will get thousands of ideas from studying that class of perfumes. Oakmoss is among the most common "other ingredients" in a fougere. And labdanum, etc.

    Another obvious idea is that linalool plays an important role in the smell of lavender, and linalool lasts suprisingly long -- so bois du rose.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by DrSmellThis; 6th November 2013 at 10:22 AM.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I could be mistaken, but I think the musk in the Caldey Island lavender was Exaltolide.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I have galaxolide and am wondering why it's a 50% dilution. Is it ok to use like this or should it be further diluted? Im confused about the nature of it. Is it available as in pure form? Also oakmoss is very overpowering I'm having trouble with the perfumers apprentice oakmoss I have. Anyone use it and have some tips.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Using oakmoss with your lavender will change it substantially - I would miss that out at first since you’re after a fresh lavender type rather than a fougère.

    Galaxolide in it’s pure form is a very thick liquid with a consistency like treacle so it’s very hard to use. As a result it is normally sold at 50% in either DEP or IPM: it’s fine to use in that form.

    Exaltolide is solid at room temp and so may well be diluted too. Either way it is, in my view, superior to Galaxolide as an accompaniment to lavender. Also consider Dimetol as an enhancer - it’s very fresh and clean - rather longer lasting than lavender too.

    Be careful with lavender absolute - it certainly works well to extend the EO but it’s powerful - and very dark green. Around 5% of the concentrate and you’ll almost certainly flatten the fragrance, so I would start with no more than 0.5% and work up from there.

    I agree about Hedione and would also consider a trace of florhydral.

    PS - Lasting Lavender is the name of one of my fragrances . . .
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
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    Chris Bartlett
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    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Well then I got advice from one who knows what he's talking about thank you. How about using say three different lavender eo's or is thAt a waste. Do you think you could pick up on the subtleties of them. One more thing spike lavender intrigues me any thoughts?

  10. #10

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Quote Originally Posted by Cason View Post
    I have galaxolide and am wondering why it's a 50% dilution. Is it ok to use like this or should it be further diluted? Im confused about the nature of it. Is it available as in pure form? Also oakmoss is very overpowering I'm having trouble with the perfumers apprentice oakmoss I have. Anyone use it and have some tips.
    Galaxolide is usually sold as a 50.0% solution because the 100.0% stuff is so viscous it is almost solid. If you find your Oakmoss too strong, then dilute it some more.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cason View Post
    Well then I got advice from one who knows what he's talking about thank you. How about using say three different lavender eo's or is thAt a waste. Do you think you could pick up on the subtleties of them. One more thing spike lavender intrigues me any thoughts?
    Not sure who you are referring to,(probably Chris!). What three different Lavender Oils do you have? There are three basic Lavender Oils. Lavender Oil itself, the sweetest smelling oil. It comes from the plant Lavandula angustifolia which is fairly fragile, and cannot tolerate too cold an environment. Spike Lavender, is a much tougher plant which can grow in more extreme places. However, its oils is not so good, and is very Camphoraceous containing a lot of 1-8-Cineole. A hybrid plant was created, between these two in the hope that it would have the quality of Lavender Oil and the toughness of Spike; it is called Lavandin.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I was referring to lavender oil from France Tasmania and Italy sorry for the confusion. I guess they are the same so any difference would be negligible. Also I was referring to Chris but all the advice is greatly appreciated I really enjoy the technical knowledge you provide. I enjoy the science aspect of this art as well as the creative. Have you ever read any of the old perfumery docs on the google archives they are very interesting. Some of the terms are unfamiliar to me but cool nonetheless

  12. #12

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Tasmanian Lavender is very different to French, cruder somehow and less sweet. The European oils are, fairly similar. Glad to be of help if only as a technician.

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I agree about the sweetness factor of Tasmanian. So I'm pretty happy with what I've created I'm sure it will change when it ages I have two questions. One is how long do you age a perfume and do you filter it after ageing. Third(sorry) while I'm happy with the scent I'm not happy with its projection. It's not very noticeable except very close to the skin. Any ideas of what will help.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    It used to be common practice to store the alcoholic solution of Fragrance in the cold for some time. This varied between a month to a year (the original "Je Reviens" was stored for a year), I think a year is somewhat excessive. After some time (let's say a month) the Fragrance was then filtered, to remove those chemicals that are not especially alcohol soluble (coming mainly from Citrus Oils). I don't know if this still happens, but I would doubt it. Time is of the essence now (rather than the essence itself; which is a pun, by the way).

    To increase the projection of a fragrance is something that comes with the skill of a Perfumer, and requires a good knowledge of the Raw Materials being used. It comes with time, and practice. Hedione is always helpful. Adding more Top Note materials, using Aldehydes; reducing the Basenotes.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Any knowledge of methyl lavender ketone or lavandin grosso

  16. #16

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I mentioned Lavandin in a post above; it is the hybrid between Lavender and Spike Lavender. Its Oil is not a sweet as Lavender, but nowhere near as Camphoraceous as Spike. Methyl Lavender Ketone is a powerful top note material, which has a fungal smell which is part of the top note of Lavender Oil. It is something that can certainly boost the strength of a Lavender Fragrance, but be careful, it is easy to overdo it.

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I was looking to use lime in the top and I came across something called lime ab402 it says it's very long lasting have you ever heard of it

  18. #18

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I don't know this product. Do you know who sells it?

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I saw it in a book called classifying aroma chemicals it says lime ab402 sharp and sweet lasting for weeks. I'm not sure I saw it listed on a site called PFF it's a company in england

  20. #20

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    It may be PFW, a Dutch company. The Lime you are thinking of may be related to a chemical called Citrathal, a very long lasting citrus note. Could be described as Lime.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    I don’t have Citrathal in my collection but I see it’s a Givaudan product described as having a lemon-lime scent. Most unusually they don’t recommend it for fine fragrance though (with most materials whatever else they are recommended for, the first item on the list is fine fragrance).

    PFW don’t list anything with a lime note currently - could it be an IFF product?
    A person who is nice to you, but rude to the waiter, is not a nice person.”
    ― Dave Barry

    Chris Bartlett
    Perfumes from the edge . . .

    www.perfumedesigner.co.uk
    Twitter: @PellWallPerfume

    If you are looking for a perfumery consultation I’m happy to quote: if you want free advice, that’s what these forums are for
    You can also join my blog if you wish to ask questions of me.

  22. #22

    Default Re: Lasting lavender

    Citrathal is a very old material, less used now than it once was. Very harsh, very strong, very lemon-lime. Maybe it is now restricted for on skin use.

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