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  1. #1

    Default A note on objections

    There seems to be a little confusion regarding the objection button so I would just like to explain a little more here.

    Basically the objection button is self-moderation. It is for those who think a post is abusive, in very bad taste, off-topic or troll-like in nature. It is designed so that one does not have to get into a war of words concerning such posts and does not invite criticism for speaking up.

    The anonymity is important for a number of reasons. Firstly if a member considered a post to be verging on the homophobic or anti-religious with a poor taste joke they may wish to protect themselves from any potential revelations about their personal lives or political/religious/sexual preferences. This is a major concern for many people who come to internet forums to enjoy the freedom and control of information sharing that brings.

    In-fighting is often an issue when people feel that someone has objected to their post. We have seen enough of that over the last eleven years and will no doubt see more of it in the future. However not allowing the posters to lock horns by keeping objections anonymous should reduce this.

    Also as to receiving objections - it is important not to take to them to heart if your post is innocuous and unassuming. The multitude of view points on here make it inevitable that you will be disagreed with or misunderstood with a fair bit of regularity! If you are receiving lots of objections for a variety of posts perhaps have a look at your language and content. Certainly there have been a few complaints recently regarding a certain tone and level of "uncouth" humour in some posts. This is part of the reason for the objection button.

    Just so you know, whilst I may like posts I will never object to them.

    Any questions please PM me or reply here.


  2. #2

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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Thanks for clarifying, Danielle.

  3. #3

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Anonymity my arse!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Marais View Post
    Anonymity my arse!
    Thanks to stuigi and jivehippo for objecting to my fruity English vernacular and proving my point in the process!
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  4. #4

    Default Re: A note on objections

    No problem marais, I'm sure you realize that my objection to your post was meant to be tongue-in-cheek.

    Danielle - if the object button is only meant for offensive, and troll-like posts, then what is the like button supposed to be used for? I thought the object button was to be used for any post which you object to, offensive or not? If a post is offensive, or spammy, I repost it using the "report post" function.

  5. #5

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveHippo View Post
    Danielle - if the object button is only meant for offensive, and troll-like posts, then what is the like button supposed to be used for? I thought the object button was to be used for any post which you object to, offensive or not? If a post is offensive, or spammy, I repost it using the "report post" function.
    I'm approaching the "like" button for posts that add stuff of value, contribute to the site, and are generally helpful/thoughtful. The objection button is, I think, less about stuff you disagree with personally and more about stuff that drags the site down in one form or another (trolling, nastiness, generally unhelpful posts). Obviously, there are a lot of grey areas and what's objectionable isn't very objective, but it's more of a way for the general community to shape itself in an organic, malleable manner. Anything overtly problematic, flag it and we'll jump on, but aside from that, I'd say use it wisely and save it for posts that bum the place out.

  6. #6

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Yes, lots of grey areas indeed DI. Also, as marais has illustrated above, it's rather easy to identify who has objected to your post. If the objections are to be truly anonymous, the notifications on ones profile must cease.

  7. #7

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveHippo View Post
    Yes, lots of grey areas indeed DI. Also, as marais has illustrated above, it's rather easy to identify who has objected to your post. If the objections are to be truly anonymous, the notifications on ones profile must cease.
    Absolutely right. It's been addressed, but I think what we've seen so far is an example of people using it to just disagree with one another, so it's a bit obvious who's doing what. We do need to fix the backend, but in the meantime, it's helpful to hash out exactly where it'd be needed and useful. Let's see how it goes.

    P.S. I think I got one of the first objections on the site

  8. #8

    Default Re: A note on objections

    It's a work in progress then. Lol, I've had quite a few as well, but no skin off my back. In the words of Honest Abe "You can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time"

    Edit: ooooh 3 mod likes. Should I feel special?
    Last edited by JiveHippo; 8th November 2013 at 08:46 PM. Reason: Gloating

  9. #9
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    I'm just going to have to see how these objection buttons go. Watching posts that I like get down-voted is really annoying. I didn't expect that it would happen here as much as it has, or that so many of the objections would seem to be so inscrutable or unreasoned.

    *SIGH*. Something is really bothering me about them. I think the net effect has to be that they discourage the posting of independent thought. Maybe that's what is bothering me.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    There is a thread here with instructions on turning off the Post Thanks display on our post bits (& the notifications).
    http://www.basenotes.net/threads/370...on-t-like-them
    If there are any further queries on that aspect, please post in that thread.
    Last edited by lpp; 8th November 2013 at 09:10 AM.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    I'm just going to have to see how these objection buttons go. Watching posts that I like get down-voted is really annoying. I didn't expect that it would happen here as much as it has, or that so many of the objections would seem to be so inscrutable or unreasoned.

    *SIGH*. Something is really bothering me about them. I think the net effect has to be that they discourage the posting of independent thought. Maybe that's what is bothering me.
    I think they are going to have a dampening effect on morale as well. I too have noticed posts that receive objections for no reason that is apparent to me.



  12. #12

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Some posters may see their 'objections' as 'badges of honour' and actually strive for them --- like Asbos

  13. #13
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Okay, I had to look up ASBOs to see what the term refers to.
    For others not from the UK, that's Anti-Social Behavior Orders, and by extension, certain types of people, per the Urban Dictionary.)



  14. #14
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by JiveHippo View Post
    Yes, lots of grey areas indeed DI. Also, as marais has illustrated above, it's rather easy to identify who has objected to your post. If the objections are to be truly anonymous, the notifications on ones profile must cease.
    so wait, if you object to a post, the poster gets a notification of who objected to it?

  15. #15
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Objections are anonymous, no email is sent.

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    Default Re: A note on objections

    But if you suspect you know who objected and look at their profile, you will see "hidden content objected to X post" and if that is your post, then you know.

    I disabled my notifications. Less information is better for me.

    We used to have a Thanks button but some felt it turned into a popularity contest, and, as I recall, it turned out to be some sort of plug-in that opened the way to hackers, so it was gotten rid of. Presumably the present Like/Object system does not create a vulnerability for hacking, but it can still be used hurtfully, so I hope people will think twice before objecting.



  17. #17
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Absolutely right. It's been addressed, but I think what we've seen so far is an example of people using it to just disagree with one another, so it's a bit obvious who's doing what. We do need to fix the backend, but in the meantime, it's helpful to hash out exactly where it'd be needed and useful. Let's see how it goes.

    P.S. I think I got one of the first objections on the site
    Please see this earlier post.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Ah, I should have read all the news threads before replying to the other one slightly off topic. :P However, i'm glad i'm not the only one viewing objections, and their publicly private nature, in a negative light.

    Reposting with slight changes:

    In regards to the "thumbs down", I see a couple problems. Objections should not be shown. Period. Those people for whom this system is designed to repress more often than not crave attention. Collecting publicly visible objections is a great form of attention since it draws the eye of viewers curious to see what objectionable content warranted a downvote. Kaern's "badge of honor" remark is spot on as well. I see absolutely no reason to show objection counts, and many reasons to hide them.

    In addition, the title of the button is misleading, leading to much confusion as I look over the feedback on the new forum for the first time. If the intent is to provide a form of self moderation of objectionable content it shouldn't be worded in a way that one could interpret it as a "I disagree with this post" button. Given the choice of taking time to voice ones disagreement and quickly pressing a button that looks like would be basically the same thing, well, I foresee the button being mistakenly misused. Imho the button's purpose should be self evident, which it clearly is not at this point, rather than something that has required a site-wide post by the admins to define it for the 443 (as of right now) people who have bothered to view this thread.

    My suggestion is to reword it: "Objectionable Content". A subtle difference but I think it would convey the button's meaning much better.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: A note on objections

    An anonymous 'Object' has all the finesse of coining someone's car in the middle of the night - it's an an invitation for jealous and petty minded cowards to 'get back at someone' without having to take responsibility for their attack.

    If someone seriously objects to a post because it is abusive, rascist, homophobic of whatever they should inform the moderators.

    Sorry - I just can't see any upside to this function.

  20. #20

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    Sorry - I just can't see any upside to this function.
    Nor me. I hereby christen this function 'The Sneaks' Button'. It is best ignored I think. Object away, cowardly snivellers!
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  21. #21

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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Wow. Here I was naively thinking this wouldn't be a real issue - probably because I hadn't noticed any objections. Buy can I clarify - is there a consequence if you get too many objections? Do you get warned and then banned because of them? If the answer is yes, then it seems like a sub-optimal solution. If no, then what's the point of doing it?

    Of course, we might also ask what's the point of getting upset over it, but then it certainly does seem like this will quickly devolve into a tool for snipers who don't want to make rational conversation.

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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Danielle has explained before that the member with a lot of objections does not get banned.

    The consequence is that ***"the objectionable content" = that particular post*** is then "hidden from view". Does that stop the conversation flow short? Not really. Who has something to say, will say it.

    As I have said in a neighbor thread, I vote for discontinuing the method of Like/Object buttons. The Notifications fill up the Profile. Wild guesses here, spot checks "Whoduneit?" there ... ridiculous.

    We could spend our time better by just simply discussing things politely.
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  23. #23
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursula View Post
    We could spend our time better by just simply discussing things politely.
    Agree. Unfortunately not everyone adheres to that.
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  24. #24
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    As regular posters will be aware - there have been many less than optimal posts around the boards here and members have genuinely been affected by some of them, particularly those with racist, sexist, and homophobic content but there has also been quite a bit of general disrespect shown to other members.

    I can't and don't speak for management - but as a member here I certainly support their efforts to improve the quality of conversation.

    If members were universally self-regulating in their exchanges this would not be an issue.

  25. #25
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    As regular posters will be aware - there have been many less than optimal posts around the boards here and members have genuinely been affected by some of them, particularly those with racist, sexist, and homophobic content but there has also been quite a bit of general disrespect shown to other members.

    I can't and don't speak for management - but as a member here I certainly support their efforts to improve the quality of conversation.

    If members were universally self-regulating in their exchanges this would not be an issue.
    Well stated. (282)
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals on Basenotes don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  26. #26

    Default Re: A note on objections

    I've gone quiet as Grant and I are back to the drawing board on this for the time being. We still want the button to be an opportunity to self regulate, but we need to see how best to implement it. The point is beautifully explained by lpp above. People complained about these posts in vast numbers and we needed to give them a voice on the boards. We are re-working it at a meeting tonight and I will get back to you asap. Your feedback, as always, has been invaluable.


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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by hednic View Post
    Well stated. (282)
    @ hednic - what do these numbers mean? (282) ???

    @ Management - nobody seems to miss the Like/Objection feature now that it gone for a few days. There was fuss when they were there, now it is normal and quiet. If someone misbehaves, he/she will show like a "sore thumb".
    There are no answers, only choices. (Stanislav Lem)

  28. #28

    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by Ursula View Post
    @ hednic - what do these numbers mean? (282) ???".
    I've wondered too - guess it might be his new post count from the time BN version changed??
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  29. #29
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    Default Re: A note on objections

    Quote Originally Posted by DanielleCooper View Post
    I've gone quiet as Grant and I are back to the drawing board on this for the time being. We still want the button to be an opportunity to self regulate, but we need to see how best to implement it. The point is beautifully explained by lpp above. People complained about these posts in vast numbers and we needed to give them a voice on the boards. We are re-working it at a meeting tonight and I will get back to you asap. Your feedback, as always, has been invaluable.
    Thank you, Danielle!

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    Default Re: A note on objections

    What's the problem with simply using the existing "report" button? Never really saw much of a difference berween the purpose of the two.

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