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  1. #541
    Dependent cytherian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Very interesting! It makes sense. If you sell 30ml, use the same bottle but add the marbles/beads to take up the space (so the bottle doesn't look partially used), simplifying the types of bottles used. Since the sprayer is likely a screw-top, at the very end you just dump out a few marbles and rub them on your fingers to get the remaining fragrance.

    As someone who was only recently made aware of Slumberhouse, my initial impression was that the bottles had a lumpy texture on the inside, creating this interesting look. I think I'd been looking at a bottle of Norne, which is quite dark, so it wasn't immediately apparent to me that the effect was due to glass marbles inside.

    But yeah, I can see how it would be a real PITA for a single person operation to sit around stuffing bottles with marbles (although I imagine he might have had some family members or "interns" help out with some simple but time consuming processes like this).
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  2. #542

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    Since the sprayer is likely a screw-top, at the very end you just dump out a few marbles and rub them on your fingers to get the remaining fragrance.

    But yeah, I can see how it would be a real PITA for a single person operation to sit around stuffing bottles with marbles (although I imagine he might have had some family members or "interns" help out with some simple but time consuming processes like this).
    The old bottles were actually crimped, not screwed -- but the etching was an even more time consuming factor as that was all done by hand as well and had a huge margin of error involved. So this new redesign was long overdue, but the expense involved in a such an endeavor for indies is very challenging -- especially when you don't want to take on investors. This Zahd sale wasn't ideal in that it took a while, but it accomplished the goal which was to initiate the new design by front loading some of the initial investment and setting the ball in motion. Because of some complications with the fund raising technicalities (long story), it was a risk to do this as he only had two weeks to get the funds raised. Everyone involved was surprised when not only were the funds raised within the two week period, they were raised within 12 hours.

    And you'd think he's have more people involved in the process, but he really doesn't. By making the process more efficient, he can get back to what he does best -- producing new scents.
    Last edited by deadidol; 21st February 2014 at 07:45 PM.

  3. #543
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    I'm curious how much "profit" he made on Zahd. 125 bottles * $150 = $18,750. How much do the ingredients typically cost?

  4. #544

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    I'm curious how much "profit" he made on Zahd. 125 bottles * $150 = $18,750. How much do the ingredients typically cost?
    I don't think we need to speculate on any specifics, but I will say that some of the individual ingredients in Slumberhouse fragrances go for up to $20k per kilo. Zahd is full of some the most expensive and rare materials available (also, unavailable, in fact!). One of the (many) components in Zahd, for example, (pink lotus) sells for $837 for 4oz. That should give you a general sense of the value for money you're getting with these scents.

    If this was a line run solely for profit, none of these materials would be feasible. Fortunately it's not, so they are.
    Last edited by deadidol; 21st February 2014 at 10:12 PM.

  5. #545
    Dependent Akahina's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Why does it matter what he makes on this scent? I am certain he makes less than the big houses that keep raising prices for low(er) quality juice just to pay for advertising campaigns amd CEO bonuses and saleries. I simply can't begrudge an independant perfumer for putting food on his table, especially given the quality and uniqueness of his product.
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  6. #546

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Making fragrances is an extremely expensive undertaking. I'm doing so on a much smaller scale now and the expenses are very high. I would imagine that Josh is doing this as a profession as well, he has to make a living to stay comfortable obviously.
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  7. #547
    markc's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Akahina View Post
    Why does it matter what he makes on this scent? I am certain he makes less than the big houses that keep raising prices for low(er) quality juice just to pay for advertising campaigns amd CEO bonuses and saleries. I simply can't begrudge an independant perfumer for putting food on his table, especially given the quality and uniqueness of his product.
    100% agree. Especially with the part of the big companies reformulating to save $$$, which in my opinion is the primary reason the last decade has seen so many weak reformulations. I believe the IFRA is only secondary.



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  8. #548
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    I don't care how much he makes, I was just curious what margins he's seeing.

  9. #549
    Dependent OctaVariuM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    I don't care how much he makes, I was just curious what margins he's seeing.
    My bet is that they are very low. For a long time he was literally (and I can't stress this enough) losing money on Sova. The price increase helped him out I'm sure, and I was always in favor of that because I want to support Josh since he is such an awesome guy.

  10. #550
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Plus, 'profit' is an extremely variable concept when the cost of bottles & new materials for future projects is considered.

  11. #551
    Dependent OctaVariuM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Did anyone have to pick up their Zahd bottle at the post office? For some reason my tracking information says it is available for pick up today, but nothing is said abut it being out for delivery. I didn't miss it showing up or anything...kinda strange.

  12. #552
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    I don't think we need to speculate on any specifics, but I will say that some of the individual ingredients in Slumberhouse fragrances go for up to $20k per kilo. Zahd is full of some the most expensive and rare materials available (also, unavailable, in fact!). One of the (many) components in Zahd, for example, (pink lotus) sells for $837 for 4oz. That should give you a general sense of the value for money you're getting with these scents.

    If this was a line run solely for profit, none of these materials would be feasible. Fortunately it's not, so they are.
    Josh will not be running Bill Gates and George Soros out of the market anytime soon, with his little $18,000 art project!!!

    In fact, I'm not sure if it's possible to do a large bronze statue for less than that - just on the cost of the metal. What's interesting to me is that the availability of perfume components allows people to use the highest-end of materials in projects that are much more "low-end". Even more crazily, it's actually easier. It's almost like being able to more easily use iridium and platinum for indie hub-cap art than for high-end jewelry. And yet, on the other end of perfumery (in the money dimension), we have highly trained artists forced to use goofy-cheap materials for market reasons, and who have to escape to niche projects, bespoke or moonlighting to do what Josh does. As a scholar of art, you have to find the whole thing fascinating as hell, I'm sure. Does the economics of fragrance art have any kind of analogy?

    Labor of love. If Josh actually wanted to make money, he'd get a cubicle day job like the rest of us. Become a Linux admin, or an expert in Hadoop clusters. Take his 18,000 and use it to dig up investors for an AI startup. Create a new programming language with one of his neologisms and then market support. Write the how-to book for O'Reilly.

    I can see it now: Practical Pattern Recognition with SOVA Marbles®
    * * * *

  13. #553
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Just got my bottle in. It's even MORE pleasing to me than the pictures I already saw posted. Congruent with idea and image of the house, I'm excited to see where he goes with it.

  14. #554
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    Just got my bottle in. It's even MORE pleasing to me than the pictures I already saw posted. Congruent with idea and image of the house, I'm excited to see where he goes with it.
    Congratulations!

    I agree, that bottle is most awesome, and I can't wait to see one in real life. It's really nice to see a "house bottle" emerge and it's a huge step up, rather than "meh".
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  15. #555
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Thank you! Any hints as to what his next project will be? He should really sell his "failed" experiments to exisiting customers, too

  16. #556
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    Thank you! Any hints as to what his next project will be? He should really sell his "failed" experiments to exisiting customers, too
    deadidol is the person in the know, but I think the model of Zahd was a big success, both from an artistic and a marketing standpoint, so I think Josh would be missing a great thing if he didn't do some more of these sorts of limited editions, in addition to the normal house scents. JMO.
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  17. #557
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Agreed. Could we possibly see additional input from customers? Maybe he can survey and get opinions on what the next scent should be? Just an idea!!

  18. #558

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Redneck Perfumisto View Post
    In fact, I'm not sure if it's possible to do a large bronze statue for less than that - just on the cost of the metal. What's interesting to me is that the availability of perfume components allows people to use the highest-end of materials in projects that are much more "low-end". Even more crazily, it's actually easier. It's almost like being able to more easily use iridium and platinum for indie hub-cap art than for high-end jewelry. And yet, on the other end of perfumery (in the money dimension), we have highly trained artists forced to use goofy-cheap materials for market reasons, and who have to escape to niche projects, bespoke or moonlighting to do what Josh does. As a scholar of art, you have to find the whole thing fascinating as hell, I'm sure. Does the economics of fragrance art have any kind of analogy?
    I do find it fascinating -- and it's one of the main draws to the line, for me. I avoided perfume for close to a decade because I was under the false impression that all that was available were essentially mass-produced beauty products engineered with "function" in mind. To discover that there's space in perfumery for innovation of "form" in a manner that undermines and largely rethinks "function" was revelatory. As far as the paradox goes in which the trained professional is largely alienated from their work, whereas the untrained (and largely subversive) non-professional gains access to an expressivity that's kept from the former, well that speaks to something beyond perfumery itself, doesn't it? The word "industry" jumps to mind as part of the problem and is something that Marx and Engels might shed some light onto

    Fortunately, there's a real surge right now in guerrilla perfumery and forms of olfactive art that are performing necessarily subversive cultural functions, from spotlighting the boorish nature of commodification (the production of flankers, soulless woodyambers [TM], and laughably patronizing advertising—essentially spoon-fed mediocrity), to the abnegation of despotism (the pursuance of alternates to IFRA's tightening grip), and further elucidation of the line that exists between commercial product and more autonomous commodities (art, essentially). Such work is being performed by creatives that exist outside of the industry, but can also be found in organizations such as The Institute for Art and Olfaction as well as The Academy of Perfumery and Aromatics.
    Last edited by deadidol; 22nd February 2014 at 05:37 PM.

  19. #559

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by noideawhatimsaying View Post
    Thank you! Any hints as to what his next project will be? He should really sell his "failed" experiments to exisiting customers, too
    That would be a thought, wouldn't it! It's an interesting thing because I could understand how there may be (especially amongst his fans) the impression of a Midas touch at work, when that's really not the case. Zahd took two years to polish and perfect -- and that's apparent in the end result, which, objectively speaking, is probably the best thing he's produced. Even if the scent isn't to one's personal preference, the labor that went into the production of something this unique and thoughtful is undeniable. But he'd be the first to admit that there's a lot of trial and error involved in the perfecting process, and sometimes projects simply don't come together or they need to be set aside for some time (gestation) before moving on. What I'm trying to get at is that not all the experiments are good and certainly aren't worth putting out there as "b-sides" to the official releases. The development of a brand that not only raises the bar, but knocks the bar out of reach, takes some serious editing and perspective. I understand the appeal of wanting to sample the scraps -- largely to get a sense of what else is being cooked up -- but it's also important to keep in mind that when you're dealing with something this expressive, the production ebbs and flows, and the successful editing of such ebbs and flows is what allows a brand to build its credibility. One thing I can say with some certainty is that you'll probably never get what you want from this line, and subsequent releases will continue to challenge and redefine what's possible in perfumery.

  20. #560
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    One thing I can say with some certainty is that you'll probably never get what you want from this line, and subsequent releases will continue to challenge and redefine what's possible in perfumery.

    That's a very important point imo.

  21. #561

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    I'm definitely interested to see what new perfumes come out of Slumberhouse over the next few years and the general direction of the company. So far, I've tried most of what's come out from Slumberhouse over the last few years and it's very interesting to see how both Josh and Slumberhouse have evolved. I'm glad the creativity is still there along with the use of quality materials, that much has not been sacrificed. The only thing I have noticed that's different with new scents vs. the old is the jagged edge has been smoothed out so to speak. Newer releases are much more wearable and have definitely lost the abrasiveness of the old juices. Vikt is a good example of that. Although I prefer some of the old stuff over the new, I really do enjoy the fact that these scents are something that I can reach for on a daily basis. I could wear the new Vikt out and about or to a wedding and not have to think twice, if I was to wear my Rume Esprit de Parfum...I would have to be in the mood.
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  22. #562
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    I do find it fascinating -- and it's one of the main draws to the line, for me. I avoided perfume for close to a decade because I was under the false impression that all that was available were essentially mass-produced beauty products engineered with "function" in mind. To discover that there's space in perfumery for innovation of "form" in a manner that undermines and largely rethinks "function" was revelatory. As far as the paradox goes in which the trained professional is largely alienated from their work, whereas the untrained (and largely subversive) non-professional gains access to an expressivity that's kept from the former, well that speaks to something beyond perfumery itself, doesn't it? The word "industry" jumps to mind as part of the problem and is something that Marx and Engels might shed some light onto

    Fortunately, there's a real surge right now in guerrilla perfumery and forms of olfactive art that are performing necessarily subversive cultural functions, from spotlighting the boorish nature of commodification (the production of flankers, soulless woodyambers, and laughably patronizing advertising—essentially spoon-fed mediocrity), to the abnegation of despotism (the pursuance of alternates to IFRA's tightening grip), and further elucidation of the line that exists between commercial product and more autonomous commodities (art, essentially). Such work is being performed by creatives that exist outside of the industry, but can also be found in organizations such as The Institute for Art and Olfaction as well as The Academy of Perfumery and Aromatics.
    Awesome answer - thanks for that!

    soulless woodyambers (TM)


    You're gonna get quoted on that one.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    One thing I can say with some certainty is that you'll probably never get what you want from this line, and subsequent releases will continue to challenge and redefine what's possible in perfumery.
    Josh is using perfumery to discover himself and the universe. Just be thankful we stumbled upon seats in the accidental theater. If Josh can pretend we're not actually here, all the better.
    * * * *

  23. #563

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Hey guys :-( I like woody ambers, not of the soulless kind but let's not make this into a fragrance profiling thread! LOL.
    Last edited by rynegne; 22nd February 2014 at 05:36 PM.
    MadHat Scents

    Skiff (Ambergris, Tropical Fruit, Pacific Red Cedar, Floral Mukhallat) / Embers - ONLY 60ml Left (Un-burned Incense, Campfires, Leather and Resins) / Khus (Ruh Khus, Sandalwood, Rose, Geranium) / Oudhy (Dark Rose, Dried Woods, Oud, Musk)

  24. #564

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by rynegne View Post
    Hey guys :-( I like woody ambers, not of the soulless kind but let's not make this into a fragrance profiling thread! LOL.
    Ha! I do too, but it's a tired genre — also an obvious, easy one. I'm largely borrowing the phrase from Alfarom who has referred to woodyamber (not to be confused with wood and amber scents) as the lazy fallback accord that you find in the base of 90% of mediocre mainstream releases — a blend of norlimbanol, vanillin, and iso-e that's become the go-to filler for mass produced swill. I don't mind it, but it's hardly innovative. And that's part of the reason why we'll probably never see a textbook amber or liturgical incense from this line, even when we know he could blow that genre out of the water.

  25. #565

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by OctaVariuM View Post
    Did anyone have to pick up their Zahd bottle at the post office? For some reason my tracking information says it is available for pick up today, but nothing is said abut it being out for delivery. I didn't miss it showing up or anything...kinda strange.

    It was dropped off at my door today.

  26. #566

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Haha, I know I'm just kidding around, I'm definitely referring to wood/amber scents, not the lazily done accord in the Armani mainstreams. I know we'll probably never see a kick ass liturgical incense from Slumberhouse but love what Laurie at SSS has done w/ creating some pretty innovative sense in both genres and we all know Josh would knock it out of the park. Either way, I can't wait to see what it is that arises next from the line. I'm working on my own amber/incense currently and it was pretty challenging to make something different that hasn't been done before...ended up being quite costly too in terms of the materials since I knew if I went cheap and did the iso/vanillin thing I could just buy 24 Gold at a fragrance discounter.
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    Skiff (Ambergris, Tropical Fruit, Pacific Red Cedar, Floral Mukhallat) / Embers - ONLY 60ml Left (Un-burned Incense, Campfires, Leather and Resins) / Khus (Ruh Khus, Sandalwood, Rose, Geranium) / Oudhy (Dark Rose, Dried Woods, Oud, Musk)

  27. #567
    Dependent OctaVariuM's Avatar
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    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    It was dropped off at my door today.
    Very strange. I guess I have to wait for Monday (realistically Friday since I go to school all week and am not at home). I'm sad.

  28. #568

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by OctaVariuM View Post
    Very strange. I guess I have to wait for Monday (realistically Friday since I go to school all week and am not at home). I'm sad.
    You'll be anxious and distracted all week!

  29. #569

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    Quote Originally Posted by rynegne View Post
    I know we'll probably never see a kick ass liturgical incense from Slumberhouse .
    Will be interesting to see if we get such an incense based from SH, I'm a die hard fan of the house, but NK incense is going to be tough to beat... So far...
    Currently wearing: L'Humaniste by Frapin

  30. #570

    Default Re: Slumberhouse Discussion

    If you told me Josh made NK Incense I wouldn't be shocked at all. NK Incense is definitely one of my favorite scent I've encountered even after only having spent one day of wearing it just earlier this week. Deadidol said it best "NK Incense is the touchstone that all other incense fragrances have to answer to. Brutal and profound." I think Josh could surpass the shock level of what incense can be.

    Quote Originally Posted by badarun View Post
    Will be interesting to see if we get such an incense based from SH, I'm a die hard fan of the house, but NK incense is going to be tough to beat... So far...
    MadHat Scents

    Skiff (Ambergris, Tropical Fruit, Pacific Red Cedar, Floral Mukhallat) / Embers - ONLY 60ml Left (Un-burned Incense, Campfires, Leather and Resins) / Khus (Ruh Khus, Sandalwood, Rose, Geranium) / Oudhy (Dark Rose, Dried Woods, Oud, Musk)

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