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  1. #1

    Default Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    I noticed Surrender to Chance offered a good price on samples of the top ten from Perfumes, The A-Z Guide in several categories, so I bought female. Here, in alpha order, are the results of a quick sniff blitz during a break from my Jasmine Sniff-Fest:

    Best Feminines

    Angel by thierry Mugler
    Clean citrusy, somewhat peppery opening note immediately joined by an animalic one that soon dominates. My nose doesn't want to linger. It gets better in the drydown, a fruity floral and quite dark sort of chypre, but not the least angelic.
    Apres L'Ondee - Guerlain
    A captivating fruity floral scent, love the jasmine, but there’s not enough wood or musk to make me love it.
    Black - Bvlgari
    Now this is nice. It's dark on first sniff from notes I enjoy like jasmine and rose, blended with a musk that doesn't repel, and sandalwood. Given the somewhat citrusy start it probably has bergamot, but there are other ingredients that add interest. Looking them up: tea, vanilla, oakmoss, leather, cedar. This might have to grow on me, but I do like it. It also has that powdery note I’m beginning to recognize.
    Bois de Violette - Serge Lutens
    A lovely, wearable violet. I smell something creamy. Is that the powder? There's a wood. Turns out to be cedar with the edge taken off. If I were into violet, I'd buy it.
    L'Heure Bleue - Guerlain
    The blue hour. Dusk, apparently. The first note is an agreeable spice (anise) joined by Bergamot, one of my faves, and followed by florals. Not Jasmine, I don't think. Yep, it's rose, carnation, tuberose, violet, and neroli. The base has things I'm not 100% familiar with yet: Tonka bean and benzoin. The anise isn't me, but it's a great perfume.
    Joy EDP - Jean Patou
    Too complex for me. Too many ingredients. Smells unnatural. Makes me want to sneeze.
    No. 5 - Chanel
    Looking it up, I see it’s big on aldehydes, which I’ve learned my nose doesn’t always enjoy. To me, this fragrance smells like peach cobbler cooked in rubbing alcohol. I’ve never liked it.
    Mitsouko - Guerlain
    Love this chypre which reminds me of a warm embrace, but my 2013 version is missing some of the musk and the moss from previous ones, so I bought a vintage EdC which has all the oak moss, but in projection it's watered down somehow from the vintage EdC sample I have. Still, I love Mitsouko and especially so in the EdC.
    Rive Gauche - Yves Saint Laurent
    An immediately familiar scent of woods and greens. It must have aldehydes because my nose starts to twitch. It's also floral. Looking it up I learn it's classified as aromatic and has soothing oak moss and musk. Certainly a memorable and energetic achievement, but with no Jasmine or recognizable rose, not for me.
    Shalimar - Guerlain
    Inspired by the love story for which the Taj Mahal was built. Elsewhere I've described it as a lovely fruity floral that's too sweet for me. No question why it remains the gorgeous grand dame of perfumery, though.

    So, of Luca Turin's top 10 for women, my faves are Bvlgari Black and Guerlain's Mitsouko EdC. How about you?


    1348643606_perfumes1.jpg

    Checking Michael Edwards' Fragrance Finder, it says if I like Mitsouko, I might also like these. Anyone tried them?

    GRIS MONTAIGNE
    Dior : La Collection Priv�e

    ENCHANTED GOLDEN ABSOLUTE
    Chopard

    SERENADE
    Boadicea the Victorious
    Last edited by ScentFan; 12th November 2013 at 04:06 AM.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Hi Scentfan, nice to read your impressions, and especially lovely to hear Mitsouko described as a "warm embrace", which it is to me too. My favourites from that list would be Mitsouko, L'Heure Bleue and Joy.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Hi, ScentFan, so interesting that LT/TS call Rive Gauche the "reference rose" since I don't get rose either. I find it to be a great abstract scent.
    What do insomniac perfumers do to fall asleep? They count chypres!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    ScentFan, while appreciating your enthusiasm, I totally disagree with your perception of a couple of scents, especially the first too. Chypre in TM Angel, for crying outloud? Fruity-floral in Apres L'Ondee (or Shalimar)?

    Please resniff in a different season, or time of a month,

    LT and TS are just expressing their opinions., my personal Top 10 is a far cry from theirs.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    My favorites from that list are Apres l'Ondee and Bois de Violette.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Twolf View Post
    ScentFan, while appreciating your enthusiasm, I totally disagree with your perception of a couple of scents, especially the first too. Chypre in TM Angel, for crying outloud? Fruity-floral in Apres L'Ondee (or Shalimar)?

    Please resniff in a different season, or time of a month,

    LT and TS are just expressing their opinions., my personal Top 10 is a far cry from theirs.
    Wow, I thought the creedo here was not to attack the poster. You may certainly have a different perception,Twolf, but you can't "disagree" with another's perception since it's prima facie what it is, right or wrong. Where did I get the idea Angel is a Chypre? I'm not sure, but I was studying Chypres at the time. I thought I found it on a list of chypre perfumes. All I know is it sure smells like one to me. And it does fit the description: "a woody, mossy, floral accord which can include learthery of fruity notes." The Fragrance Wheels says chypre is oakmoss, citrus and amber and Angel has both citrus and amber and woody notes used to substitute for moss nowadays. Technically, the wheel says it's a woody oriental, not utterly outrageously far from a mossy wood, since Angel has the ingredients of both!

    As for Apres L'Ondee, not sure where I found it classified as a fruity-floral but I did. It does have florals and fruit, yes?

    More importantly, I'm glad to be corrected on any post while I'm learning, but not in the way you choose to do so. Perhaps you are suffering from the time of the month, yourself, but I guarantee you that for reasons I don't care to discuss with you, I am not.

    I seem to have bothered you from the start and I've been patient about that, but this crosses the line. I ask that you find a more respectful way to comment on my posts or I'll raise an official objection to whoever owns this forum and if I'm told this kind of response is acceptable, I'll leave the list and ask for a return of my premium membership.

    One thing is certain, I will not be subjected to your rude personal attacks.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Great descriptions!

    I too have a different impression of some of them (and I absolutely love the complex, civetous Joy), but it could also due to the version. HB and AO have been reformulated, and they smell different (I have smelled HB, I have not smelled reformulated AO). HB in vintage has a strong almondy heliotropin (together with neroli and carnation) which gives it a dreamy, fuzzy air which is lost in the current version. It also veers a bit towards gourmand.Similarly, heliotropin is big in vintage AO (violet, heliotropin, iris, and some herbs), as turin defined it, one of the Ophelias of the perfumery world.

    Angel could be perceived as chypre in the modern sense, woody-patch base, but I also reserve the chypre definition to the classical accord a la Mitsouko (or at most the modern chypres like Enlevement au serail and promesse de l'aube).

    If you are not into violet, you should then try Feminite de bois. BdV is a variation of the FdB theme, in which the violet becomes prominent. FdB, as the programamatic name suggests, is about cedar softened by candied fruits and powder.

    And you are right that RG is a big aldehyidic thing. I do still detect a big rose, a dense one, not the fresher tea roses. I have not smelled true vintage, but apparently the original was similar to Calandre, which is lighter and more rosy. probably the rose has darkened over the years.

    cacio

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Well, of these top 10, I would put them in this order:

    Angel
    L'Heure Bleue
    Shalimar
    Apres L'Ondee
    No 5
    Black
    Bois de Violet

    and distantly tied: Joy, Rive Gauche, Mitsouko

    Actually, I don't think I've ever sniffed Rive Gauche ... I should remedy that before placing it dead last on the list.
    Last edited by shadesofbleu; 12th November 2013 at 01:16 AM.
    I've trademarked the color bleu

  9. #9

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by cacio View Post
    Great descriptions!

    I too have a different impression of some of them (and I absolutely love the complex, civetous Joy), but it could also due to the version. HB and AO have been reformulated, and they smell different (I have smelled HB, I have not smelled reformulated AO). HB in vintage has a strong almondy heliotropin (together with neroli and carnation) which gives it a dreamy, fuzzy air which is lost in the current version. It also veers a bit towards gourmand.Similarly, heliotropin is big in vintage AO (violet, heliotropin, iris, and some herbs), as turin defined it, one of the Ophelias of the perfumery world.

    Angel could be perceived as chypre in the modern sense, woody-patch base, but I also reserve the chypre definition to the classical accord a la Mitsouko (or at most the modern chypres like Enlevement au serail and promesse de l'aube).

    If you are not into violet, you should then try Feminite de bois. BdV is a variation of the FdB theme, in which the violet becomes prominent. FdB, as the programamatic name suggests, is about cedar softened by candied fruits and powder.

    And you are right that RG is a big aldehyidic thing. I do still detect a big rose, a dense one, not the fresher tea roses. I have not smelled true vintage, but apparently the original was similar to Calandre, which is lighter and more rosy. probably the rose has darkened over the years.

    cacio
    I'm beginning to wonder if what I sniffed was really Angel or something lying next to it. Will dig through my samples, again. Thanks, Cacio, for the mention of modern chypres because I have samples of and totally adore both Enlevement du Serail and Promesse de l'aube, the former the most.

    Will try Feminite de bois. Thanks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by chypre View Post
    Hi Scentfan, nice to read your impressions, and especially lovely to hear Mitsouko described as a "warm embrace", which it is to me too. My favourites from that list would be Mitsouko, L'Heure Bleue and Joy.
    Mitsouko is also my hands-down favorite from that list. I do like L'Heure Bleue and will retest it a few times.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by shadesofbleu View Post
    Well, of these top 10, I would put them in this order:

    Angel
    L'Heure Bleue
    Shalimar
    Apres L'Ondee
    No 5
    Black
    Bois de Violet

    and distantly tied: Joy, Rive Gauche, Mitsouko

    Actually, I don't think I've ever sniffed Rive Gauche ... I should remedy that before placing it dead last on the list.
    To me, Rive Gauche does smell a little like Paris and the Seine. It makes me think of "thoroughly modern" last century women like ... hmmm, who? ... Amelia Earhart, Betty Friedan.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    I seem to have bothered you from the start and I've been patient about that, but this crosses the line. I ask that you find a more respectful way to comment on my posts or I'll raise an official objection to whoever owns this forum and if I'm told this kind of response is acceptable, I'll leave the list and ask for a return of my premium membership.

    One thing is certain, I will not be subjected to your rude personal attacks.
    Oh no, no, no, far from it. I find your descriptions very enthusiastic and honest. I was also told using the word like "please [resniff]" was a polite form of addressing people. Did not mean my post in a rude way at all.

    Of course, you can feel free approaching the owners and asking them to ban me for a personal attack? Or, for mis-interpreting what I have written in my almost 10K posts?

    The classical "chypre" formula is bergamot --> labdanum -- > oakmoss.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Twolf View Post
    Oh no, no, no, far from it. I find your descriptions very enthusiastic and honest. I was also told using the word like "please [resniff]" was a polite form of addressing people. Did not mean my post in a rude way at all.

    Of course, you can feel free approaching the owners and asking them to ban me for a personal attack? Or, for mis-interpreting what I have written in my almost 10K posts?

    How am I misinterpreting... "Please resniff in a different season, or time of a month,"

  12. #12

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    I will PM you, OK?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    ANGEL RE-SNIFF

    According to good sources, Angel is:

    Basenotes: Chocolate, Vanilla, Caramel, Berries, Honey, Bergamot.

    PerfumeMaster.org: Oriental Vanilla
    Top Notes Bergamot, Mandarin Orange, Jasmine, Coconut, Melon, Cassia, Cotton Candy
    Middle Notes Honey, Jasmine, Lily of the Valley, Orchid, Rose, Apricot, Blackberry, Peach, Plum, Red Berries
    Base Notes Amber, Musk, Tonka Bean, Vanilla, Caramel, Dark Chocolate, Patchouli

    Perfumed Court & Surrender to Chances
    : Oriental Vanilla
    Top notes of fruits, dewberry, and honey; middles notes of chocolate, caramel, and coumarin; and base notes of vanilla, sandalwood and patchouli.

    The Fragrance Directory: Ah! Thierry Mugler has at least two other Angels, Angel Liquer de Parfum 2013 and Angel Show Couruew 2010, both classified as Woody Orientals. I must have been looking at one of them.

    So now I have it straight that this is an oriental vanilla. According to the Fragrances of the World Fragrance Wheel this means: blends of oriental resins, opulent flowers, sweet vanilla and musks are introduced by refreshing citrus, green or fruity top notes.

    It does not seem so odd to me, having just studied chypres, for my nose to have fixed upon Angel’s chypre-like notes, which I explored in depth in the thread entitled, “Learning Chypre,” i.e., citrus top notes, a resinous center, a mossy,animalic base from oak moss and musks. Angel has all these elements except the oak moss.

    Now for the re-sniff. Quite like the several chypres I studied, this has a citrus opening and I smell resins and musks quite strongly. Smelling more closely I do suppose this could be a dark chocolate instead of resins, but there are so many ingredients that I’m certain I wouldn’t identify chocolate on a blind sniff. What I’m smelling is citrus, florals, fruit, amber, musk and patchouli.

    Other noses may of course smell different things, but that’s what my nose detects. Hmm, wait, where’s my Diaghilev, a woody aromatic chypre? Okay, it’s quite different, much more citrusy, mossy, musky and green. Re-sniffing Bottega Veneta. Yes, I smell the difference. The chypres are greener, muskier, woodier. Sniffing Angel again. Now I don’t misinterpret its food elements as resin.

    So, ultimately, this was a helpful exercise and welcome info, wanting only politeness in the exchange. Thanks, Twolf for your PM. Will examine the other possible mis-sniffs tomorrow.

    - - - Updated - - -

    APRES L'ONDEE RE-SNIFF

    PerfumeMaster.org: Oriental Floral
    Top Notes: Orange Blossom, Violet, Anise. Middle Notes: Carnation, Violet. Base Notes: Iris, Vanilla. My reaction remains the same, but something very fresh in the scent does, at this stage of my nose's education, remind me of fruit. It's quite pleasant, but without woods, musks or animalic notes, doesn't compel me to buy.

    SHALIMAR RE-SNIFF
    Oriental Floral

    Elsewhere I didn't describe Shalimar as a fruity floral. Also realizing that when I smell vanilla with certain florals, especially orangey ones, my mind may be thinking fruit. Another good exercise.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Actually, I think you may have a point about Angel. It was drastically reformulated about 2 years ago and the new version is much less oriental than before, with brighter, crisper top and middle notes. Also patchouli, if I recall, is one component of both classic and modern chypres, and this lends the earthy quality to Angel. In general, though, I think classic chypres tend not to be as sweet as Angel.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by chypre View Post
    Actually, I think you may have a point about Angel. It was drastically reformulated about 2 years ago and the new version is much less oriental than before, with brighter, crisper top and middle notes. Also patchouli, if I recall, is one component of both classic and modern chypres, and this lends the earthy quality to Angel. In general, though, I think classic chypres tend not to be as sweet as Angel.
    One of the difficulties in discussing fragrances over the internet is knowing whether the other people are referring to the same version - the sample passes arranged here must aid this immensely.
    The last time that I sniffed Angel was a long time ago, so I won't be any help!

  16. #16

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by chypre View Post
    Actually, I think you may have a point about Angel. It was drastically reformulated about 2 years ago and the new version is much less oriental than before, with brighter, crisper top and middle notes. Also patchouli, if I recall, is one component of both classic and modern chypres, and this lends the earthy quality to Angel. In general, though, I think classic chypres tend not to be as sweet as Angel.
    That's a big help. Now I'm anxious to re-sniff Enlevement du Serail and Promessa de l'Aube and explore the category Cacio calls "modern chypres." In fact, I think I also need to sniff more conventional chypres because I'm really enjoying that accord. Hmm...now that I'm alert to classifications, let's see what my current faves are:

    24 Faubourg by Hermes - Chypre Floral
    A La Nuit - Oriental Floral
    Amouage Gold - Floral Aldehyde (big surprise, they must do Aldehydes well)
    Boucheron - Floral
    Fuson Sacre, Majda Bekkali - Oriental Spicy
    J'ai Fait une Reve, Majda Bekkali (no classification, guessing Oriental Floral Woody Musk if such a thing exists)
    Jasmine Imperatrice Eugenie - Floral
    Joop - Oriental Woody (old favorite worn for years)
    Patchouli, L'Erbolario - Chypre Floral
    Lys 41, Le Labo - Floral
    Mitsouko - Mossy Wood (Chypre)
    Neroli, L'Erbolario - Floral Green
    Narcisso Rodriques for her - Floral Woody Musk
    Rose 31, Le Labo- (no classification, guessing Woody Floral..ah, Fragrantica says: Floral Woody Musk)
    Silver Rain, Le Prairie - Oriental Floral
    Une Rose - Floral
    Valentino - Floral Aldehyde (I wear it the least)

    I own three outright chypres and two floral, woody musks. Most of the rest have woods or musks or both. Will continue this in my Learning Chypre thread.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    One of the difficulties in discussing fragrances over the internet is knowing whether the other people are referring to the same version - the sample passes arranged here must aid this immensely.
    The last time that I sniffed Angel was a long time ago, so I won't be any help!
    I so look forward to samples passes, Ipp, but feel I won't be of much use in them until I educate my nose more, which I'm doing out loud in the Forums. I do plan to start one or more sample passes when I finish my sniff-fests.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Modern chypres are post-oakmoss restrictions, typically instead of oakmoss one has some combination of patchouli, vetiver, and possibly some woods to replicate the chypre feel (hence the links to Angel, which is big on woods and patchouli). Among the most talked about new chypres are also things like Estee Lauder Jasmine white moss and Chanel 31 rue Cambon. But also Ormonde Jayne Tiare (which probably does have some oakmoss). But now you hear the word chypre for fragrances that have very little of it as well - referring to a generic impression rather than to a specific accord (for instance, I think I remember hearing a perfumer talking about her creation of Armani Si' as "chypre'" - I have not smelled it yet).

    To my nose, new chypres smell cleaner, somewhat scrubbed, relative to the old ones.

    cacio

  18. #18

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Hi ScentFan!

    You really must be commended for all your efforts to train your nose, and I see you're going at it solo, for the most part - doubly impressive. I think you're doing a great job with something that's quite nebulous and difficult to pin down, especially when it comes to chypres. Since classic chypres have almost all been discontinued, it's difficult to recommend a few more you should get your nose on, but technically, none of the "modern chypres" are chypres at all, so it's extremely confusing for someone new to the game. Rather than recommend you hunt down all the older genuine classic chypres, I'll first suggest you not go by Fragrantica's classifications, as they're quite frequently just plain wrong. (I'm thinking that's where you got your info about 24, Faubourg, which is not a chypre by any stretch of the imagination - no moss, much less oakmoss and no labdanum. It's a floral, or more specifically floral-oriental due to its amber and vanilla base.)

    There's so much info out there to sort through, and unfortunately there's going to be lots of grey area, especially now with everyone saying "chypre" as soon as they smell patchouli, but these two sites might help a bit when it comes to classification -

    http://www.leffingwell.com/h%26rfrag...ie_feminin.pdf which is a good quick visual reference tool, unfortunately not up-to-date, but at least when it says "chypre" you know you're getting the real deal, and my favorite is http://www.perfumeintelligence.co.uk, which is the general library, and the classification page is http://www.perfumeintelligence.co.uk.../gl2/gl2p4.htm.

    Now as for further sniffing suggestions, Aromatics Elixir is a wonderful classic chypre that is still available, as well as the original Private Collection, Azurée and Knowing, all from Estee Lauder. A few more I'd recommend are Ungaro Diva and La Perla by La Perla, but in both cases the chypre accord might not still be completely intact so finding bottles even a few years old would be better than brand new. If you don't mind a bit of a hunt for vintage, Miss Balmain, Trussardi, Fendi, Paloma Picasso and Jean Louis Scherrer would all be able to help you isolate this gorgeous, earthy and completely unmistakable-once-you're-familiar-with-it accord. Of course this is just scratching the surface; there are dozens of other vintage chypres worth sniffing, but the ones I mention are relatively easy to find and mossy even in their final incarnations, so you wouldn't inadvertently wind up with a reformulated, stripped-of-oakmoss version, which only adds to the confusion.

    Keep it up, enjoy the journey, and good luck!



    (editing to add: I see your "learning chypre" thread was not left behind in the Huddler switch as I initially thought. Sorry - this post clearly belongs there more than here.)
    Last edited by Evangeline; 12th November 2013 at 08:24 PM.
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  19. #19

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Evangeline View Post
    Hi ScentFan!

    You really must be commended for all your efforts to train your nose, and I see you're going at it solo, for the most part - doubly impressive. I think you're doing a great job with something that's quite nebulous and difficult to pin down, especially when it comes to chypres. Since classic chypres have almost all been discontinued, it's difficult to recommend a few more you should get your nose on, but technically, none of the "modern chypres" are chypres at all, so it's extremely confusing for someone new to the game. Rather than recommend you hunt down all the older genuine classic chypres, I'll first suggest you not go by Fragrantica's classifications, as they're quite frequently just plain wrong. (I'm thinking that's where you got your info about 24, Faubourg, which is not a chypre by any stretch of the imagination - no moss, much less oakmoss and no labdanum. It's a floral, or more specifically floral-oriental due to its amber and vanilla base.) ...

    (editing to add: I see your "learning chypre" thread was not left behind in the Huddler switch as I initially thought. Sorry - this post clearly belongs there more than here.)
    Thank you so much, Evangeline. Unfortunately, I was engrossed in Fragrantica's Chypre lists as you were posting this great advice. I found myself making a long list, which I posted on the "learning chypre" thread. I'd welcome any comments you want to make on it before I start acquiring samples.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Hi ScentFan, I am very pleased to hear you have given another chance to three of them.

    Can't agree more with E. about many mistakes in F-site's classification. Also, as I said before, your enthusiasm is contagious, and E. notices this too.

    I have been sniffing for many years, and I still do not understand L'Heure Bleu, although I tried its many formulations and concentrations, from different eras, I find it changeable and elusive. I hope one day I will grow up to love it.

    Chanel No.5 works on my skin in extrait concentration only, and (fearing to sound like a broken record again) my favorite formulation of it comes from Mariella Burani: with enough powderiness and sweetness to counterbalance somewhat harsh aldehydes. In a blind sniff we had about two years ago, one sniffer described it as "grape soda spilled in a men's locker room", and I am sure it was about the modern EdT. I also once had it in bath oil, and it was excellent. Other than that, I do not even sample it any more -- I know it sits crookedly here.

    Joy is a favorite, by all standards, and I used to have it in both EdP and perfume, in different times of my life. It is magical, really, and it gave me perspective: once I got used to its civet -- a pretty blonde with masterfully painted lips in bright orange opens up her mouth and starts speaking in a baritone -- I could recognize this note everywhere. Joy sounds best on this skin during the dog days of summer, in winter time it introverts into a pale and unremarkable scent. With all that, it is not in my current Top 10, but I think it is a must to try for everybody.

  21. #21

    Default Re: Quick Sniff, A-Z Top 10

    Quote Originally Posted by Twolf View Post
    Hi ScentFan, I am very pleased to hear you have given another chance to three of them.

    Can't agree more with E. about many mistakes in F-site's classification. Also, as I said before, your enthusiasm is contagious, and E. notices this too.
    .....
    Joy is a favorite, by all standards, and I used to have it in both EdP and perfume, in different times of my life. It is magical, really, and it gave me perspective: once I got used to its civet -- a pretty blonde with masterfully painted lips in bright orange opens up her mouth and starts speaking in a baritone -- I could recognize this note everywhere. Joy sounds best on this skin during the dog days of summer, in winter time it introverts into a pale and unremarkable scent. With all that, it is not in my current Top 10, but I think it is a must to try for everybody.
    Yes, thanks to E. and you, I see my chypre list drawn from Fragrantica may not be reliable. I'm exploring the Perfume Intelligence database and I see their classifications.

    As for Joy, it and all perfumes are obviously a matter of personal taste. I wrote a more detailed reaction to it in my Jasmine thread which isn't restored yet. I bought Joy during their big promo years ago...must have been in the 80"s? Everyone was talking about the perfume that cost $100. That would be almost $300 today...hmm, and that's about what many perfumes seem to cost. Wonder if Joy set the precedent. At any rate, I never fell in love. It's so complex my nose can't make sense of it. I opted for Mētal by Paco Rabanne which, according to Fragrantica anyway, is a chypre.

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