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  1. #1

    Default Negative emotions scents

    I'm trying to incorporate scent mixing into my spiritual/artistic practice,
    but it seems my scent palette is pretty restricted in the notes which
    induce more negative emotions (I can expand on why do I need that
    if anyone is interested..).
    I realize it's pretty subjective, but what are the scents which make you
    anxious? afraid? sad? lost?
    (I prefer natural sources for my work, but I'm pretty curious of what this
    might stir up).

    Thanks!

  2. #2

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Well here is one set of eyes that is interested in what you're getting at. with negative emotion inducing frags.


    as for your outgoing questions:

    Indole, has a fecal note that I find offensive, and I think if it were used in higher concentrations it would set me into an aggressive stance(trying to stay away or chase away the offending/invading scent)

  3. #3

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Idk if this is what you're looking for, but Jubilation for men kinda makes me sad. don't know why though

  4. #4

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Well, the whole point of that spiritual practice is giving an artistic outlet
    to things that are encountered in dreams and in meditations. When it's
    expressed in the world, then you can meditate on that expression, and
    then wait in silence. Sometimes a new related dream or experience is
    encountered, and the whole cycle starts again. It can get very deep very
    fast, and the artistic outlet kind of keeps things grounded.

    What plants have a lot of this chemical?

    For me, the smell of datura is kind of evil.. It's like little fingers creeping in
    my head, trying to hypnotize me to do stupid things.
    And also that silverscent perfume that people started wearing around here
    smells like someone is cutting through my brain with a cold knife.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Idk if this is what you're looking for, but Jubilation for men kinda makes me sad. don't know why though
    From fragrantica the dominant notes are opoponax, blackberries and oud.. Any of these have the
    same effect?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I find marine notes extremely obnoxious. However, I think all of them, from calone on, are synthetics. Though I recently smelled a hair shine from Aesop which is supposed to be natural an smells both marine and annoying. Don't know what the offending natural is, perhaps borage?

    I agree that civet in large doses also gives a scary, animalistic feel. Civet is natural, but animal derived.

    cacio

  6. #6

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Most floral naturals carry indole in them, honey suckle is one that I can detect directly in the flower.

    Thinking about it more benzoin styrax is another scent that I really don't like It brings to mind suffocation, and sickness, If i had to place it as an emotion I would say hopelessness.


    Then there is Oud.

    I find that I like one in ten of the blends that are ever offered. Again mostly because of the animalic fecal notes.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I'm trying to incorporate scent mixing into my spiritual/artistic practice,
    but it seems my scent palette is pretty restricted in the notes which
    induce more negative emotions (I can expand on why do I need that
    if anyone is interested..).
    I realize it's pretty subjective, but what are the scents which make you
    anxious? afraid? sad? lost?
    (I prefer natural sources for my work, but I'm pretty curious of what this
    might stir up).

    Thanks!
    Castoreum espresses territorial aggresssion.

    Battlefield soldiers have reported that dead bodies have smelled like almonds, so an overdose of almond can accomplish that, with all the negative feelings which accompany it. I have noticed in my own use of almond that a little is good but a lot is indeed a negative vibe.

    Myrrh, when overdosed, gives a bit of assault to the nerves, and so will result in a negative emotion having to do with nervous irritation. That could be combined with a spice to heighten the effect. Any OD oof spices or something sharp can be irritating.

    Certainly an OD of indole would do all that. Anything narcotic when overdosed can be depressive. Valerian also. But these things can also be pleasant. Generally you'd have to OD.

    Skunk is negative for most folks, any mercaptan chemicals, which are mind bogglingly strong.

    You can always OD on cloyingly sweet things for a nauseous feeling.

    We could go all day and night on this topic, the more I think of it. There are so many noxious odors. Moreover, any bad perfume will create a sense of tension and discord, whereas a good perfume communicates harmony.

    I hope I'm not going to hell for giving you this advice, by the way!

  8. #8

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by DrSmellThis View Post
    I hope I'm not going to hell for giving you this advice, by the way!
    I guess part of the art of making perfumes is redeeming stinking chemicals
    by making them beautiful
    I have valerian around (not EO.. the botanical. I burn it sometimes..). I'll give it a whiff.
    I think I know what you mean with almonds. That's a great observation! It has the cold
    evil thing going.
    And I also get irritated from myrrh.. Unless I burn it as incense - then it doesn't smell
    like latex gloves. I once took a bath with a drop of myrrh (and yucca as emulsifier) and
    had stomach issues for a week.

    - - - Updated - - -

    How about saffron? (It could be that what I have is fake..)

  9. #9

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    in some ways that is chlling.. I actually really like almonds....
    Last edited by kantofox; 21st November 2013 at 10:41 PM. Reason: probably shared to mcuh personal info

  10. #10

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I have one! How about carob blossom?
    (btw, if anyone has a source for that, or a related aroma chemical, that would
    be amusing..)

  11. #11

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    What about orris/irone? To represent sorrow.

    Once I said a material--probably an EO or absolute--"smelled like regret." For the life of me, I can't remember what I was referring to, though. Alas!

  12. #12

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I can see lavender being really, really obsessive.

  13. #13
    Super Member hoschhti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Shalom Nizan, welcome to Basenotes!

    I am not an expert, but I think a minty note can make a perfume cold and chilly which could be perceived as "negative".

    And like DrSmellThis said, everything that is overdosed can cause stress.
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  14. #14

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    From fragrantica the dominant notes are opoponax, blackberries and oud.. Any of these have the
    same effect?
    Well, it's not blackberry, and I don't know how oud or opoponax smells. But it's probably the frankincense.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    There is an older post titled something like "post apocalyptic notes" you might find helpful.

    Outside of the obvious triggers I would say that most other smell associations we find repulsive are due to overdose, as already stated, psychological associations based on personal experience/conditioning. I find this to be true of food and flavors a well, I don't like fermented egg but they are a delicacy in other parts of the world. So, I think that there are probably cultural differences and dietary factors that also color our perception of different smells. Then there is personal taste based on our biochemistry: I find saffron to be extremely sharp and bitter in concentration but in high dilution it imparts a soft floral and leather character. My wife can eat higher concentrations of saffron with impunity and does not seem to notice this bitter aspect while I can not eat saffron unless it is used with extreme moderation as an accent. Sulfurous smells can be off-puting for most (egg, flatulence, garlic, cabbage, asafoetida, garlic, onion, brussel sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower). Atlas cedar smells pissy to me and black currant also smells of cat urine. I have read descriptions of Buchu as being minty, fruity, sweet, etc. My experience has been that it smells of bad breath, dirty feet, urine and feces simultaneously - perhaps I need to dilute it, lol. Valerian smells of dirty socks, to most people, in higher concentration. In large amounts sharp, bright and biting aromas usually put me off - things like lemon, camphor, terpenoids, aldehydes, pharaone, etc... in moderation they can greatly enhance and compliment other smells but at high concentration can be headache inducing in addition to irritating/inflaming to sinuses and lungs.

    For a year my wife and I lived with her mother. During the winter of that year my asthma was worse than it has ever been in my life. I had a constant dry, hacking cough that would not abate despite medication, visits to doctors, antibiotics, steroids - you name it. Come to find out it was caused by a nasty combination of orange terpines (my mother in-law used them exclusively to clean around the house) with an air ionizer that she used to "purify the air" AND the steroid inhaler I used contained an undisclosed milk product, something I found out recently - I have a milk allergy. I found this out because the air ionizer was voluntarily factory recalled by Sharper Image due to the fact that it was ionizing terpines and turning them into a highly toxic gas, by the companies own admission. After she quit using the ionizer and I quit the steroid inhaler my asthma symptoms disappeared. Also, during that time my father in-law would splash his favorite aftershave every morning, I could smell it across the house, it would wake me from a dead sleep and I felt suffocated by it's intensity (Cool Water). To this day I can not smell Cool Water without feeling perturbed. Even today I feel a mild sense of anxiety when I smell orange terpines as a result of that experience - Where's the ionizer, cough, cough?!

    Ammonia, to me, is horrible no matter it's dilution but I like the smell of bleach in dilution. Pine-sol is overwhelming to me (I can taste it in the air) but I love the smell of pine oil and comet cleanser. Diesel and other fuel smells are anxiety provoking in large amounts but I like them in moderation. Mold evokes musty, dark, wet, rotten images to me, not only due to the smell and it's association with decomposition but once again, due to my being allergic to mold spores. I love patchouli in moderation but some forms of it in high concentration just smell moldy.

    My guess is that the only close to universally accepted repulsive smells are going to be those that are typical triggers like "toxic chemicals in concentration, indole variants (death/rot), fruit ripening smells in very high concentration (fermentation), excrement, rot, byproducts of anaerobic bacteria, extreme hormone levels, etc. anything that acts as an olfactory warning of potential danger or poisoning. Salvador Dali was said to have used repulsive smells and otherwise artistically, socially and ritually but there is so much hype surrounding his persona it's hard to tell what is true and what is viral marketing on his part, the same can be said for Crowley and many of his peers . Are you using these smells to try to recondition your fear/danger response or as a means by which to hash out unfavorable memories? What is your ritual or therapeutic intent?
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 22nd November 2013 at 08:00 PM. Reason: poor formatting, hard to read

  16. #16

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Rod View Post
    Well, it's not blackberry, and I don't know how oud or opoponax smells. But it's probably the frankincense.
    Hmm.. you're the second person mentioning resins..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Wow, thanks JEBeasley!

    I realize those issues with "normal" scents are personal, but even though I'm
    gaining a lot from this discussion. I think it's helping me develop an attitude
    towards smells which is more artistic than guttural.

    I didn't think about the repressed memories angle, but it may well serve that.
    The aim is to create an artistic expression which goes back through the senses,
    and later gets "corrected" by following the same practice day after day. The
    element of artistic expression is important in this process, as it involves the
    highest parts of the psyche/soul..
    So I guess the gains are strengthening of the higher self / "I" being, as well as
    healing of emotional patterns through a rhythmic artistic practice.

    I will try to find some material on Dali. I was also looking through the aroma
    chemicals on perfumer's world, but I couldn't find "extreme" scents (except for
    indole).

    - - - Updated - - -

    edshepp I donno about orris root. Mine is probably fake, but it smells
    pretty positive to me.
    kantofox - hmm how so?
    hoschhti - thanks שלום

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    This is highly subjective of course but aroma chems I find to be particularly overwhelming in concentration are Pharaone, all of the "C" type aldehydes, allyl amyl glycolate and costausol. I'm sure there are others I'm forgetting but those ones in concentration have a way of sticking in my nose like glue and torturing me for up to 20 minutes or longer depending on how long I subject myself to the concentrate. I use them diluted so as not to suffer their concentrated effect on a regular basis.

  18. #18

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    General types of irritations are pretty easy to come by.. I'm looking for things
    that evoke deeper emotions
    Like, I realized that most people who encounter carob blossom (I keep going
    back to that because I passed a tree a while ago, which left its impression)
    are usually embarrassed, which is probably covering up some shame..

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Call me sheltered but why would someone feel embarrassed from a carob blossom encounter? I don't think I've ever seen or smelled one... what does it smell like?

  20. #20
    Super Member hoschhti's Avatar
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    What about clove? A lot of people associate it with toothache/dentist which is pretty "negative". I don't have this association, but still I find the smell of cloves very stirring.
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  21. #21

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by JEBeasley View Post
    Call me sheltered but why would someone feel embarrassed from a carob blossom encounter? I don't think I've ever seen or smelled one... what does it smell like?
    Hmm.. I think the most non offensive term would be - semen
    Last edited by Nizan; 23rd November 2013 at 12:00 PM.

  22. #22
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Hmmm, I've never heard that. I found this doing a search, looks like there's a common consensus. So, it smells highly alkaline and possibly of asparagus, fish or pineapple? Lol! http://www.mnn.com/your-home/organic...rld/carob-tree

    Seems like one of the corpse flowers mentioned in the above slideshow would work for you if you can find an extract or make one. That seems like an extract that would be difficult to work into a blend.

  23. #23

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    You never know what happens in low dilutions.. It might smell like bananas..
    As for the arum titan, I found this :


    The titan arum, Amorphophallus titanum, is a flowering plant with the largest inflorescence in the world. The flower emits a unique rotting animal-like odor that attracts insects for pollination. To determine the chemical identity of this characteristic odor, we performed gas chromatography-mass spectrometry-olfactometry analysis of volatiles derived from the inflorescence. The main odorant causing the smell during the flower-opening phase was identified as dimethyl trisulfide, a compound with a sulfury odor that has been found to be emitted from some vegetables, microorganisms, and cancerous wounds.

    So, it smells highly alkaline and possibly of asparagus, fish or pineapple
    So you're asking what's the smell of semen?

  24. #24
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Hahaha, no, not asking, just remarking on the humorous possibilities.
    The corpse flower sounds interesting, I wonder if sulfurous smells in general would be a psychological part of the death scent? Maybe indole and something sulfurous.

  25. #25

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    As for dimethyl-sulfide, it says it smells like onion/cabbage..
    Here's something from the Gritman site :

    Onion Essential Oil is primarily used in energetic work. It is too strong for home cooking. Onion Oil brings up anger and rage from the abuse of scared trust. This oil should only be used under the supervision of a trained intuitive aromatherapist.

  26. #26
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    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I've seen onion and asafoetida oils sold as perfumery oils. A while back I inquired on this board as to how sulfrous smells might be used, looks like this is one way. Interesting.

  27. #27

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Nizan, It's funny that you mention that Carob blossom smells of semen.

    Having dealt with a lot of tropical plants I found that it's not uncommon in the world and even certain temperate genus' produce similar aromas, and there's one in particular for me.

    Pear blossoms: some smell amazing, while most of them smell of Urine / shame
    and if one could put a stretch to the imagination, rancid sperm or something rotten and shellfish.
    to say the least it's vulgar and disgusting in nature.

    During the spring it's so powerful that it usually triggers my gag reflex, so much that I would take alternate half mile/.8 km route to my other classes at my university.

  28. #28

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Oh yeah, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the steroid molecules. One way you can support their validity as putative pheromones is to observe the negative reactions they can evoke.

    An overdose of androstenone will produce revulsion and unreasonably aggressive responses. Buy some and try it -- it's not hard to replicate, just not fun.

    An over dose of androstadienone will often produce a depressive reaction in many, not all males (I am one of these). Females don't seem to have this reaction, at least as easily.

  29. #29

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    No chance I can find any of that, though.. The love-scent site only sells huge
    amounts, and nobody wants pear tinctures that smell funky

    - - - Updated - - -

    I think I'm going to try and make styrax and opoponax enfumage..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Someone told me smog makes him both nostalgic and choked.. Any idea how to
    reproduce that smell? Tincturing burning rubber or something like that?

  30. #30

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Apparently some of the chems in carob also occur in quinoa.. Think
    I'm going to tincture some and see..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok.. here's something that smells WEIRD - millet tincture and agarwood.

  31. #31

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    How about iodoform? That's what you can smell in hospitals. I doubt if it's any use in perfumery, mind.

    -

  32. #32

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Don't remember that smell
    After that aroma chemical spill, I'm less into horrible smells..

  33. #33

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Ok.. so I'll report a strange experience. I was following Maritima for a couple of days, and that smell surely
    evokes some strong responses.. When it's strong it's metallic-repulsive.. However, after testing it today, I
    suddenly felt pretty depressed and sad for a couple of minutes, with no other external trigger (though this
    type of mood is a constitutional trait of mine..)

  34. #34

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Apparently some of the chems in carob also occur in quinoa.. Think
    I'm going to tincture some and see..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Ok.. here's something that smells WEIRD - millet tincture and agarwood.
    Details please! Millet tincture and agarwood seems obtainable to me. What is this smell like? Proportions?
    I smell many plants having the smell of Carob blossom growing also in middle Europe but never tried to tincture them.
    As for the notes evoking negative emotions...
    Oud yes - it can deliver many emotions most of them associated with dark mystery (specially when used in winter)
    Galbanum - it's definietly not calming. Razor sharp - cold and pragmatic.
    White Pepper - Much better IMHO than all thos sulphury notes out there - If You find someone smelling like White Pepper - he won't smell like food - he will smell like evil. Sophisticated evil.

    I am growing Voodoo lillies to obtain their smell but it's a second year without flowers Oh well...

  35. #35

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    My modest and belated suggestions would include too heavy, leathery notes: too much musk, amber and other similar animalic notes, conveying a hint of sweatiness (anxiety-related or not).
    The few "unclean smelling" spices like cumin
    Too heavy florals, leaving a choking, way too oily, overly sweet etc. impression.

  36. #36

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Most musks I know aren't really sweaty.. Tonquitone base is a bit animalic, but not really offensive.. Cumin and Methyl Salicylate, on the other hand..

  37. #37

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Hi Nizan - I too focus on the spiritual side of fragrance creation and the first thing I learned was to drastically reduce concentrations...for 'spiritual work', you'll be using 0.5% - 1% instead of the normal/average 5-10%. Good luck!!

  38. #38

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I've just very recently experienced Tonquitone, so I must note: "a bit" animalic? I was bowled over by it at 100%. It smells like a pair of underwear that I've worn 5 days in a row. My experience with musks has been mostly clean/powdery/laundry, so I was surprised by it. Seems very useful, though.

  39. #39

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Tonquitone is what Musk should smell like; I love it.

  40. #40

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Quote Originally Posted by David Ruskin View Post
    Tonquitone is what Musk should smell like; I love it.
    Are you thinking of shangrilide, or do you like them both similarly?

  41. #41

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Shangralide is an IFF Musk base that is mainly Galaxolide with a few secret extras. Tonquitone is also an IFF Musk base which used to contain Nitromusks but is now NMF (notromusk free). I think it is based on a couple of Macrocyclic musks (rather than Galaxolide which is a Polycyclic musk). Both were attempts at a genuine Musk base. Tonquitone is even more animalic than Shangralide; and I love them both.

  42. #42

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I don't know if I was biased by David's opinion when I tried them, but they're both really exciting for me
    Ed - have you tried that underwear experiment, or are you extrapolating? I don't remember anything smelling like Tonquitone from my army days.. I think humans tend to be a bit more sour

    Darryl - would you elaborate some more on how you work with scents? We could do this either on the forum (maybe on a different thread), or in private.. I was just talking with IPP about similar issues.

  43. #43

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Nizan, are you familiar with Sissel Tolaas' work? For example here and here. Over all an interesting symposium.
    We need to decide that we will not go to war, whatever reason is conjured up by the politicians or the media, because war in our time is always indiscriminate, a war against innocents, a war against children.

    Howard Zinn

  44. #44

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I kinda lived that underwear experiment for most of my 20s. And maybe 30s.

  45. #45

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    I've read about it before, but only now I appreciate how hard it must have been to GC, source everything and mix it.. Such dedication!

  46. #46

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Geosmin allegedly smells like rain and turned earth, I reckon you could make a good "melancholy" feel from a base of that.

  47. #47

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Hi! I’d also add wormwood (Artemisia Absinthium) to this list.
    The EO smells utterly delicious, almost the same as a crushed wormwood leaf BUT it really makes me feel quite sad, so I tend to avoid using it too often.. thinking of “počtes maudits”.. I guess it’s the very chemistry of this EO making people feel a bit depressed.

  48. #48

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Wormwood's forbidden under IFRA regs, though - it's a neurotoxin. Still legal for personal use though.

  49. #49

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Yes, I was assuming personal use (and in trace amounts only).

  50. #50

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Wormwood is used by Perfumers; for a safer option try Armoise, Artemesia, Sage or Cedarleaf.

  51. #51

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Smells utterly delicious? It's so offensive that I find myself walking around the cloud it leaves in the house after opening the bottle..
    And I'm too lazy to check it at 0.1%..

  52. #52

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    LOL! Individual taste and reactions are amazing!

    I love it!! I have whole hedges of wormwood, artemisia arborescens, abrotanum etc. and I really have to keep out of those otherwise I’d be always there crushing and sniffing the wormwood leaves. I don’t like artemisia arborescens as much though, as well as I kind of HATE a. abrotanum (this one is quite stinky I must admit).

    Thanks David for your input and advice!

  53. #53

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Me too, Eleonora, but the oils & stuff are often so very different to sniffing the living plants.
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  54. #54

    Default Re: Negative emotions scents

    Yes, very true.
    I wonder if abrotanum EO would stink even more than the real thing. Mm, no, I’m not sure I really want to know..

    Wormwood EO smells pretty close to the actual living plant though (or maybe I’ve been just lucky with mine).

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