Three chords for awesome.

[kantofox]

How would one go about developing a spicy fresh basil accord?

For starters I have methyl chavicol, anisyl alcohol, linalool + aldehyde c8 for that chlorophyllic note.

Could I stand to add anything?


Also A cinnamon accord.

Not sure how to go about this. do I take the easy way and just use a split between bark and leaf oils? or should I use an EO and then select AC's to accent and bolster the natural? or should I combine a blend of AC's for an accord that is cinnamon like?

Finally lime

Is this one that does better blended from AC's? Or just straight up as an EO?

[JEBeasley]

Now you have me looking up basil on wikipedia to see which aroma chems make up the real thing. I imagine that's one place where you could start. I've never made a basil accord but it seems plausible that if you have at least some of the major contributing single aroma chem notes that make up the real thing that you could cobble together a pretty good imitation albeit stylized, no? Wikipedia has a lot of info on what makes basil smell the way it does:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basil

Chemical components
The various basils have such different scents because the herb has a number of different essential oils that come together in different proportions for various breeds. The strong clove scent of sweet basil is derived from eugenol, the same chemical as actual cloves.[11] The citrus scent of lemon basil and lime basil reflects their higher portion of citral, which causes this effect in several plants including lemon mint, and of limonene, which gives actual lemon peel its scent. African blue basil has a strong camphor smell because it contains camphor and camphene in higher proportions. Licorice basil contains anethole, the same chemical that makes anise smell like licorice, and in fact is sometimes called "anise basil."
Other chemicals that help to produce the distinctive scents of many basils, depending on their proportion in each specific breed, include:

citronellol (scented geraniums, roses, and citronella)[12]
linalool[13] (a flowery scent also in coriander)
myrcene (bay leaf, myrcia)[14]
pinene (which is, as the name implies, the chemical that gives pine oil its scent)
ocimene[14]
terpineol
linalyl acetate
fenchyl acetate
trans-ocimene
1,8-cineole
camphor octanane
methyl eugenol
methyl chavicol[12]
eugenol[12]
beta-caryophyllene

Based on chemical content, basils can be divided into four groups:
French; Ocimum basilicum, contains lower amounts of phenols
exotic; contains methyl chavicol (40-80%)
methyl cinnamate - ether 90%
eugenol

Basil and oregano contain large amounts of (E)-beta-caryophyllene (BCP), which might have a use in treating inflammatory bowel diseases and arthritis. BCP is the only product identified in nature that activates CB2 selectively; it interacts with one of two cannabinoid receptors (CB2), blocking chemical signals that lead to inflammation, without triggering cannabis's mood-altering effects.[15]

Aroma profiles[edit]
1,8-cineole[16][17]
Bergamotene[18]
Eugenol[16][18]
Linalool[16][18]
Methyl chavicol[17][18]
Methyl cinnamate[18][19]
Methyl eugenol[16][20]
Phenylpropanoids[16]
trans-β-Ocimene[16]

---------------------------------

For the aroma chems you don't have in that odor profile you could look on the good scents database and try to find matches or close matches within your collection that might make good substitutes to play around with. Same thing might work for a cinnamon accord.

I've made a pretty realistic cinnamon note many times by accident by combining the three or four chems I have with cinnamate, cinnamic or cinnamyl in their names. Cinnamon is a really strong note, I find that it can completely take over a mix with no effort.

[kantofox]

I was looking at the wikipedia breakdown of Basil and it was the derivative from which I was starting to form my accord. I was shooting for "Basil like" it seems that most successful fragrances are for lack of better words not touching but sensing. So looking at the breakdown I'll be able to pick and choose what is perceived as basil, and leave what are probably extras or non associated aromas out, but I wonder if that's what totals into the basil experience.

Though, to be honest I'm not sure if I'm tackling the problem with the correct answer.
I'm not so sure if that makes a whole lot of sense.
Also I might need to invest in a small plant for referencing purposes lol.

JE.B Thanks for the insight.

[JEBeasley]

I know what you mean, I experienced this recently when trying to reproduce a nutmeg accord. I was not very successful at it so I'm going back to the drawing board myself. I think that being capable of creating certain notes is dependent on have a large palette of materials to work with when trying to achieve that special, stylized, note you have in your olfactory dream-bank. I think that part of creating this kind of accord is knowing how you want to use it, knowing your limitations and knowing what materials you have to work with - it's all a complex balancing act. I have not attempted a basil accord otherwise I would give you some more specific pointers, sorry.

[pkiler]

Kantofox, Is there some reason to not just use Basil?

Like maybe this one:
http://www.edenbotanicals.com/basil-absolute.html
I don't have THIS one, but another from Australia.

And there are others as well...

PK

[DrSmellThis]

You have to decide what aspect of basil you want to have prominence, and that requires sampling different basils. Certain basils, and here I have in mind holy basil, which is more complex and interesting, almost savory and balsamic (Oshadi has a great one to try here), Some smell different as compared to others.

You have licorice and linalool aspects to basil, for example. Different basils are strong in different aspects.

With one approach, you could use basil just for the linalool, if you find one high enough in that (over 50%). Then you would have to decide whether to take the linalool in a floral, citrus, or spice direction, as all are linalool themes. Or you could take linalool as an abstract idea.

This is probably of no help. But it is the way I'd think about it. Your first step is simply to test, say, five different basils. There is no such thing as a standard basil smell to me. After that, all your previous thoughts about the matter will go out the window anyway. Get to know the different ones. Then eventually, you will begin to imagine something. Go with it, and take your time.

You could finish off basil with any chemicals useful for green types of themes. Lavender would be an obvious example of a green smell that accords with it, as would be clary, and costus, and exaltolide or angelica. Lemon is an obvious top note for basil, as would be petitgrain, geranium. Black pepper. Thyme/savory.

If you were interested in the licorice aspect, there are countless essential oils and aromachemicals that have that smell. So it would be easy to find things that blended easily.

Sweet basil seemed to me the most commonly used, so I would be sure to sample that one as a benchmark.

[kantofox]

PK
Normally I would opt for a natural basil seeing as that I'm more familiar with using naturals as my media, but I've been wanting to learn/experiment with the synthetics without using a pre developed formulation. It wouldn't be bad but I wouldn't learn the fine tuning required to make an amazing fragrance plain and simple. It's more challenging, and more costly but at the same time the reward will/should also be higher. so long as I don't overkill any one element. This is pretty much the method by which I learn.

DrSmellthis

this might to normal people sound strange and gross all at once but this question has been bugging me for some time and it stemmed from eating lunch. If you've ever tried Pho then you'd know that they tend to give you large sprigs of Thai basil, this is the type I'll be using as my basil "model"
the other two parts of this are also what I like about said soup along with traces of the other herbs used in the broth. specifically cardamom and nutmeg.

Thinking on it I can probably actually use clove bud oil as my base and extrapolate from that. Seeing as Beta-caryophyllene and Eugenol show up in the AC breakdown. Another insight that I would not have realized had I not had to explain my intents.

I thank you.

I'll probably skip the onion and garlic bits. But still, it makes my mouth water just thinking of it. No harm No foul right?

Gaston

[pkiler]

The Basil from Pho is more the anise type. But still, I smell the linalool when I eat it. It is much like the Basil Absolute I have...

Never had Cardamom and Nutmeg in Pho though...

Where do you live?
I live near Little Saigon, in So Calif. And my Indonesian Wife always loves to go get Pho...

PK

[Xscent]

The Basil from Pho is more the anise type. But still, I smell the linalool when I eat it. It is much like the Basil Absolute I have...

Never had Cardamom and Nutmeg in Pho though...

Where do you live?
I live near Little Saigon, in So Calif. And my Indonesian Wife always loves to go get Pho...

PK

Cardamom and Nutmeg in Pho would be used to create the stock along with other spices and flavouring. These can include star anise, fennel, charred ginger, clove and roasted onion. The spices and flavouring are usually wrapped in a muslin bag and simmered for hours along with beef or chicken bones to create the stock to get a depth of flavour (umami).

I’m know nothing about DIY perfumery but I do love food and come from a family of chef’s who make awesome Pho.

[kantofox]

PK,


I live in the Apple Valley / Victorville area in San Bernardino co.


Some time ago, I poked my nose around and a Cambodian friend of mine slowly fed me parts of her family's recipe,she never did give me the whole, family secrets and all. But as Xscent wrote in it's most of what goes into the stock pot . I'll have to get a Thai Basil plant to sit with me on this project.

Xscent,

I automatically Envy you, my family is devoid of anyone with the knowledge or backgrounds to prepare Pho. lol


Gaston

[Xscent]

PK,


I live in the Apple Valley / Victorville area in San Bernardino co.


Some time ago, I poked my nose around and a Cambodian friend of mine slowly fed me parts of her family's recipe,she never did give me the whole, family secrets and all. But as Xscent wrote in it's most of what goes into the stock pot . I'll have to get a Thai Basil plant to sit with me on this project.

Xscent,

I automatically Envy you, my family is devoid of anyone with the knowledge or backgrounds to prepare Pho. lol


Gaston

PK Families guard their secret recipes with their lives. It would be a miracle to recreate a lot of those dishes as there is also a specific means of preparing each ingredient or steps to get the flavour development and balance right. Beware of misdirection and misinformation too, better just to enjoy the fruits of someones labour and thank them profusely for it.

Gaston my tip is to find that place that is full of Asian families eating. Usually the food there is awesome and closer to what you find in the traditional family kitchen. The stock is the most important element in Pho, if you do get to a good Vietnamese restaurant also try the Cafe Sua Da, it's iced coffee done right but be warned it's very addictive.

[JEBeasley]

[
Gaston my tip is to find that place that is full of Asian families eating. Usually the food there is awesome and closer to what you find in the traditional family kitchen. The stock is the most important element in Pho, if you do get to a good Vietnamese restaurant also try the Cafe Sua Da, it's iced coffee done right but be warned it's very addictive.

I tried that with Chinese food in Philadelphia's chinatown and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I ended up being the only non chinese guy at an all chinese dimsum eating things I couldn't pronounce that I'd never put in my mouth otherwise. This was more of a russian roulette style dining experience when you don't speak the language well enough to know what the server is offering you. All I could do was point and eat what was put on my plate. Whew, be careful, hahahaha.

[kantofox]

I tried that with Chinese food in Philadelphia's chinatown and it wasn't a pleasant experience. I ended up being the only non chinese guy at an all chinese dimsum eating things I couldn't pronounce that I'd never put in my mouth otherwise. This was more of a russian roulette style dining experience when you don't speak the language well enough to know what the server is offering you. All I could do was point and eat what was put on my plate. Whew, be careful, hahahaha.

JE.B, I find myself in this situation on a normal basis, the only difference is when I ask about something I normally get looked at as if I'm expected to know what it is(I'm infamously known as a native Hawaiian on the Islands ), Though, My American upbringing betrays my ethnic ambiguity.

As a side note, don't feel too bad there's an amazing Chinese restaurant in LA's China town, that unless you speak the language it's fully expected of you to walk around the place and figure what you'd like to try via the numbered photos on the wall. Sometimes it's almost like a sign and guarantee of quality.

Gaston my tip is to find that place that is full of Asian families eating. Usually the food there is awesome and closer to what you find in the traditional family kitchen. The stock is the most important element in Pho, if you do get to a good Vietnamese restaurant also try the Cafe Sua Da, it's iced coffee done right but be warned it's very addictive.

XScent. I have been lucky to have several very good Vietnamese Restaurants in my area and am consistently taking advantage of them on a normal basis, and I love the coffee, it is done quite well.