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Thread: Modern Fougere

  1. #1

    Default Modern Fougere

    I really love fougeres, but they smell so 80s to me, and even though I love to smell them I wouldn't wear them easily.
    I'm thinking of making a variation of the basic fougere accord, made of similar but more modern materials.

    For Coumarin I have found 6-methyl Coumarin which is very similar but more gourmand.
    For oakmoss I'm thinking of trying fir balsam which is also earthy but warmer and sweeter

    What do you recommend as replacements to lavander, geranium and vetiver.

    Ideally I'd like to use single molecules instead of naturals.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    I think that if you always use synth replacements, your blend may up smelling thin.

    I'd suggest using at least two naturals out of your four that you've mentioned to round it out.

    Fougere's can be a lot of things, don't limit yourself, try a lot of things, ands see what you like...

    but one note, Fir balsam can take over a blend in a hurry, that Oakmoss won't.

    PK
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Oooh.. what does fir balsam smell like? I have pinion pine incense -
    anything similar?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Oooh.. what does fir balsam smell like? I have pinion pine incense -
    anything similar?
    Fir balsam is delicious, it smells sweet, coumarinic, terpenic, pine, balsamic, it's a very rich pine needle smell. It reminds me of the stereotypical douglas fir christmas tree/holiday smell that permeates nearly every building and house around this time of year - if I have the real thing that is, hahaha.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Ahh.. turpentine.. I can't stand the EO's with that smell. Though the incense
    doesn't smell this way. I guess it either evaporates in seconds, or pinion just
    doesn't have lots of that.
    Last edited by Nizan; 29th November 2013 at 09:00 PM.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Ahh.. turpentine.. I can't stand the EO's with that smell. Though the incense
    doesn't smell this way. I guess it either evaporates in seconds, or pinion just
    doesn't smell this way.
    The terpenic note in fir balsam is nearly nonexistent, it's very slight. Most of what you'll smell are the sweet, coumarinic, pine-needle notes. I find it is somewhat of an addictive smell, it's so sweet it almost smells edible like some kind of pine flavored caramel. I'm curious about that pinion pine incense, it sounds intriguing. Anything with "incense" in the name sounds intriguing to me, lol.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    You can try tincturing smoke.. It smells different from EO's.. Usually nice,
    as far as I'm concerned. But we're hijacking the thread..

  8. #8

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    You know speaking of fir, oddly to me douglas fir doesn't smell fresh or good at all, rather it's pulpy and overly sweet with a hint of pine tossed in but that could be an assessment from when I first worked with it, i think that recently things that I found unpleasant in nature for one reason or another has turned to be not so bad after the last few years of sitting and smelling and learning.

    My point in being, try it out and you may be surprised.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Fir Balsam, to me, has the sweetness of Maltol rather than Coumarin. And by the way Nizan, the adjective "Terpenic" refers to the chemical group "Terpene" rather than the oil "Turpentine" (which is largely made up of two Terpenes alpha and beta Pinene).

    Back to the OP; Fougeres (all of them) contain a mix of Lavender, Geranium and Bergamot, whatever else is present. Not all Fougeres contain Vetivert.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 30th November 2013 at 09:45 AM.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Ho.. ouch. Thanks David!
    So if I want to sort these things out, what does "terpenic" mean
    aroma-wise? From wiki I see that there are linear and cyclic terpenes, and
    some are lemony, some woody and some floral.
    So the pinenes are responsible for those turpentine smells some woods
    leave behind?

  11. #11

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Not all terpenes have a "terpenic" odour. I woud have thought that Turpentine, alpha and beta Pinene, and para cymene would be described as having a terpenic odour. Limonene, Linalol, and Terpineol don't.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 1st December 2013 at 09:16 AM.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    David what synthetics would you recommend as replacements to lavander, oakmoss and geranium?

  13. #13

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    As Lavender Oil, Oakmoss Absolute and Geranium Oil contain many chemicals it is impossible to recommend a few synthetics; it is impossible. The best Moss replacement chemical is called Veramoss (also known as Evernyl); it is similar to Moss but could never be regarded as a substitute. Lavender contains a lot of Linalol and Linalyl Acetate, but neither smell like Lavender. The oil also contains Camphor, and Ethyl Amyl Ketone; again they don't smell like Lavender. Couarin is also present. Similarly Geranium contains a lot of Geraniol, Citronellol, Geranyl Acetate and Citronellyl Acetate with some Rose Oxide, and a touch of Dimethyl Sulphide. None of these, on their own smells like Geranium. I have no idea why you don't want to use any naturals at all. Even dafter than only using Naturals. A good perfume is made up of a mixture of both.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also Pelargene, Canthoxal,and Diphenyl Oxide. Lavender Ketone, Chamonile, Coumarex. Orcinyl 3, IsoButyl Quinolene. Safraleine.

    OO I'm on a roll!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Camphene, menthone,

  14. #14

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Thanks a lot David. A lot of materials to research then.
    I use of course many naturals and I love them. I'm just thinking if the basic fougere accord could be interpreted and created from more modern materials, so that it won't smell vintage.

  15. #15

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Can't you just pick one chemical for each of the natural EO, and start amping up
    its presence in the normal note, till something cool pops out?

  16. #16

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    Can't you just pick one chemical for each of the natural EO, and start amping up
    its presence in the normal note, till something cool pops out?
    No.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by nicok View Post
    Thanks a lot David. A lot of materials to research then.
    I use of course many naturals and I love them. I'm just thinking if the basic fougere accord could be interpreted and created from more modern materials, so that it won't smell vintage.
    It isn't the materials that you use, it is the way that you use them.
    Last edited by David Ruskin; 5th December 2013 at 10:02 AM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Modern Fougere

    This article from Perfume Shrine may be helpful : Definition: Terpenic, Phenolic & Camphoraceous in Fragrances

    http://perfumeshrine.blogspot.com/20...-phenolic.html

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