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  1. #61

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Since when does admiring someones expertise, ability, and brilliance suddenly mean you can't or don't think for yourself? Funny, but I never knew one necessitated the other. I guess when all else fails it's time to make things up?
    To think one is immune from influence is not realistic. There is nothing but information circulating all around you. Without others preferences and influence, you would have no frame of reference. Ninety-five percent of what Luca writes is spot-on. If you agree or disagree it's irrelevant to me. I know a genius when I see one.

  2. #62
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I always enjoy reading what he has to say and share, and respect his viewpoint even if his ideas or opinions are at odds with mine.

    (2779)
    Remember that while it is perfectly acceptable to criticize the content of a post - criticizing the poster is not.
    Mean spirited, nasty, snide, sarcastic, hateful, and rude individuals don't warrant or deserve other individuals' acknowledgement or respect.

  3. #63
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Expecting that others will agree with my own bag of likes and dislikes seems a bit egotistical.
    'Those who grow too big for their pants will be exposed in the end'--anon

  4. #64

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    We should start a game where we anticipate what rating a fragrance will receive by him.

  5. #65

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Aventus - 2 stars

  6. #66

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Good idea HORNS. I've been thinking about this for a while. Here are a few for now:
    Aventus - I think he might actually give this a 3, maybe even a 4 * despite his obvious & legitimate disdain for Creed.
    Portrait of a Lady - definite 4*, possibly a 5
    Geranium Pour Monsieur - definite 3*, most likely a 4
    Dries par Malle - 4*
    Santal 33 - 4*
    Puredistance M - 4*
    Interlude Man - 4*, maybe a 5
    Dior Vetiver - 4*
    Heeley Coccobello - 4*
    Pure Malt, Pure Leather, Pure Havane - all 4*'s
    CdG Black - 4*
    Derby Reissue - 4*
    Volutes - 4*
    HdP 1899 - 4*
    Last edited by Indagnacious; 8th January 2014 at 10:04 PM.

  7. #67

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Has he given any vetiver besides Sycomore a 5 star?
    I think he will give Portrait of a Lady 5 and keep Derby at 5 as well.

  8. #68

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indagnacious View Post
    Since when does admiring someones expertise, ability, and brilliance suddenly mean you can't or don't think for yourself? Funny, but I never knew one necessitated the other. I guess when all else fails it's time to make things up?
    To think one is immune from influence is not realistic. There is nothing but information circulating all around you. Without others preferences and influence, you would have no frame of reference. Ninety-five percent of what Luca writes is spot-on. If you agree or disagree it's irrelevant to me. I know a genius when I see one.
    Just so you realize, Luca is certainly a qualified and certified scientist but in the end what he puts down for the public is his sole opinion.

    An opinion and not a fact.

    Everyone's opinion is valid.

    You're defending his opinion not a fact. Hence your fawning and doting.

    Nothing wrong with you though. A lot of people need heroes & guidance.

    for swap/sale:





  9. #69

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Uhh, most of what he says is fact, i.e., what is in the actual fragrance, be it indole, civet, Iso Super E, etc... It's not one's opinion that iris is iris, it IS in fact iris (or a combination of elements put together to purposely create the affect of iris). Regardless of the fact that at the quantum level it is actually all debatable and acting in a way which is dependent upon the observer, we have to obviously agree to call it such and such for clarity and sanity's sake. Nearly all his work outside of his reviews is based on science which IS based on fact. Please, check yourself hedonist. The actual rating? Certainly there is an element of opinion based mostly on individual preferences, something he clearly admits in the opening of The Guide. The difference with LT is that he is not just some hack reading off the "list of notes" the marketer decided to try to wet your panties with. He actually discerns what is in the fragrance and why it smells the way it does in a highly succinct way, a feat elusive to 95% of the reviewers on here and everywhere else, myself included. Just as people have the freedom to disagree that Shakespeare wasn't a great writer or Jordan wasn't a great basketball player, the general consensus is pretty obvious. What did I say? I don't care whether you agree or disagree, but I know something great when I see it. Luca does not need defending. I'm sure there are many other areas in which he is quite the buffoon. Not this one. I challenge anyone to write an original review on a new fragrance with the skill in which he does. Then write a few thousand and see what amount of fragrance garbage is out there relative to the obvious sublime. Proceed to write a whole book based on that gamut and see if it sells. Fawning and doting? Needing guidance? The truly egotistical and short-sighted are the ones who somehow believe they are above such things. I have no problem admitting I need guidance and absolutely none in fawning over something truly good. When I see obvious skill, intelligence, creativity and humor, I know it. It's clear when I can learn something from an individual who is smarter and more adept in a certain area. Instead of debating me, my thoughts, or the value of LT's opinions/reviews, I please ask that you or the others who want to disagree with my adulation spend your time more usefully. Write a good range of your own original reviews on scents that Luca has yet to cover and let us compare. Turin may or may not be a great perfumer, but he is a helluva writer and an excellent reviewer, and until anyone comes to close to his work, I will stand by my statement.
    Last edited by Indagnacious; 9th January 2014 at 02:06 PM.

  10. #70

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    tl;dr

  11. #71

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I guess next monday it's time for some more reviews. It's the last monday in January ...

  12. #72
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerScent View Post
    I guess next monday it's time for some more reviews. It's the last monday in January ...
    Good point. It's been a long while.
    Last edited by Papi Le Bon; 27th January 2014 at 03:48 AM.

  13. #73
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
    We should start a game where we anticipate what rating a fragrance will receive by him.
    Aventus: first 5 stars for the house

    Royal Oud: 4 stars

    Bel Ami Vetiver: 5 stars

    Portrait of a Lady: 4

    Derby: 4

  14. #74

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I'm surprised you guys think he's going to knock a star off of Derby.

    I think, even though I love this fragrance, he's going to give 34 Boulevard St. Germain 3 stars.

  15. #75

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerScent View Post
    I guess next monday it's time for some more reviews. It's the last monday in January ...
    Seems I guessed wrong ...

  16. #76

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    When I go to see Russell Brand on stage, the kind of language expected and experienced is different to that which we normally expect to see in a community discussion forum.
    I suspect that the kind of language expected and experienced with Russell Brand are different from each other. Despite outward appearances, he's actually unbelievably eloquent, as this article he wrote for The Guardian demonstrates: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...garet-thatcher.

    And anyone who thinks the English are prim and proper needs to look past Mary Poppins. Young Mr. Indagnacious might be shocked by Benny Hill or the Carry On films. It's always good to challenge stereotypes.

  17. #77

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerScent View Post
    Seems I guessed wrong ...
    Bummer :-(
    Having Simultaneous Affairs with: Amouage Memoir Man, Fate Man, Interlude Man, Epic Extrait (yep... the femme version), Tribute, Homage, Opus IV, VI, & VII • Puredistance M, Black • Tauer L'Air & Carillon pour un Ange • Knize Ten Golden • L'Artisan Al Oudh, Traversee du Bosphore, Dzing! • TF Noir de Noir • Xerjoff Homme, Richwood, Regio, 1861, 1888, Zafar • Serge Lutens MKK, Gris Clair, Fille en Aiguilles, La Myrre • H de Parfums 1740, Noir Patchouli, Tub3 Animale • Abdes Salaam Tabac, Sharif, Mecca Balsam • Slumberhouse Vikt, Baque • MDCI Invasion Barbare, Chypre Palatin • Nicoläi NY, Vie de Chateau Intense, L'Eau Mixte • Dior Leather Oud & Patchouli Imperial • Chanel Sycomore • Guerlain Derby, Songe d'un Bois d'Ete • MFK Oud Cashmere Mood • Ormonde Jayne Man

  18. #78

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by shashimenon View Post
    Hi, all -

    I'm Shashi, the CEO & Publisher of Style.com/Arabia. First time posting here, but I came across this thread and thought I'd update you that Luca's Message in a Bottle is very much still on. No conspiracy theories linked to any of his recent reviews — in fact, Luca's sharp wit and perspective and opinions on fragrances (whether you agree or disagree with them) are why we hired him.

    Expect the next reviews to come out early in the new year .

    Happy holidays.
    What do you mean by "early"?

  19. #79
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by KillerScent View Post
    What do you mean by "early"?
    Anytime before mid-2014.

  20. #80

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Well, he has a new gig in Germany so I'm sure he's pretty darn busy.

  21. #81
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I finally picked up a hardback copy of "The Perfume Guide". Very entertaining. I like a number of his reviews for their insight, but others surprise me to no end. For example, his flippant take on Chanel Pour Monsieur Concentree. But a lot of his single and two star reviews are quite entertaining.

  22. #82

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Indagnacious View Post
    Since when does admiring someones expertise, ability, and brilliance suddenly mean you can't or don't think for yourself? ... I know a genius when I see one.
    Not calling you a sheep for agreeing with him, but I find his writing problematic. His reviews vary from colorful to mean-spirited and rarely describe the fragrance, concisely or at all. He doesn't inform as much as he tries to entertain.

    He goes for snappy remarks, provocation, and some crass over substance.

    I can't help but feel we've elected the "village drunk" as our fragrant figurehead.

  23. #83
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    ^ He insults fragrances that don't appeal to him with snarky derision, which can be fun to read but certainly don't help us understand the nuances of the faults. Some reviews of fragrances that he enjoys he'll go into great detail about what makes them so appealing. But it's rather shameful how biased he comes across, despite the hilarity of his colorful remarks.

  24. #84
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Next monday will be March. As Kahneman put it, planning is just best case scenario displaying.

    No need for updating.
    Last edited by Papi Le Bon; 2nd March 2014 at 01:47 AM.

  25. #85

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Recently, when someone asked Luca in his Twitter account: I cannot find recent perfume reviews by you in Style Arabia... what happened?
    Luca answered: Reviews will restart soon thank you for asking!
    And Tania recently wrote : Reposting: we are working on a new edition. If you represent a perfume released since 2009, please get in touch at mail@perfumestheguide.com

    Good news!!

  26. #86

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    But there are a lot of perfumes released before 2009 that were not included in The Guide ...

  27. #87
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Soon...

  28. #88

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by Papi Le Bon View Post
    Soon...
    Hi, all - the next reviews will be coming out in April.


    -Shashi

  29. #89

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by shashimenon View Post
    Hi, all - the next reviews will be coming out in April.


    -Shashi
    Ahhh, just a week away. Finally! Thanks Shashi. Do you work for StyleArabia?
    Edit. Never mind, I see your above post.
    Last edited by Indagnacious; 26th March 2014 at 07:54 PM.

  30. #90

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Last edited by OPomone; 25th April 2014 at 09:36 PM.

  31. #91
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I'm not holding my breath.

  32. #92

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Hi, all - the next reviews will be coming out in April.


    -Shashi



    Early April or late April??

  33. #93
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Just looking forward to the new book. :-)

  34. #94

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by SereneGreen View Post
    Not calling you a sheep for agreeing with him, but I find his writing problematic. His reviews vary from colorful to mean-spirited and rarely describe the fragrance, concisely or at all. He doesn't inform as much as he tries to entertain.

    He goes for snappy remarks, provocation, and some crass over substance.

    I can't help but feel we've elected the "village drunk" as our fragrant figurehead.
    I think what is going on here is that there is absolutely no use to go into detail on some questionable fragrances when you are reviewing so many. It's a numbers game. He's writing a book, not an encyclopedia (although I would love a Britannica full of detailed reviews). I saw in his own words that it is a pretty painful task to go through piles and piles of releases day in and day out where so much of it winds up being nothing but bunk. That would probably make me want to write some terse reviews without a lot of love as well.... just out of sheer frustration. Not only that, his main gig is on the scientific side of things. Maybe an alternative would be to sift through the "garbage" and just write lengthy reviews on the good? Then you would have so many asking "what about this or what about that?" I personally love the way his previous book is set up. I want the good, the bad, and the ugly all in one nice thick book. I learn just as much from the bad as I do the good, and I get a pretty good laugh in the process. It's refreshing to see someone be honest, even if it isn't always what one wants to hear. I admire this most about him.

  35. #95

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
    Aventus - 2 stars
    Yep.

    Doubt there's gonna be many new 5-star fragrances. There was Fate Woman a while ago, and I think possibly Penhaligon's Sartorial could get the nod. Maybe Fille en Aiguilles, or Absolue Pour le Soir? Portrait of a Lady is a possibility too.

  36. #96
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    One thing I found rather glaring with Luca Turin's Perfume Guide was the general lack of identifying vintages. So for example, when he gives 5 stars to YSL Kouros, he makes no mention of which vintage, anywhere from 1981 to current. The recent reformulation is mostly disappointing for those who appreciate the vintage (based on many reviews and comments I have read), yet Luca makes no effort to address this.

    I too find him entertaining but not very useful in terms of learning about fragrances below the surface.

  37. #97

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by cytherian View Post
    One thing I found rather glaring with Luca Turin's Perfume Guide was the general lack of identifying vintages. So for example, when he gives 5 stars to YSL Kouros, he makes no mention of which vintage, anywhere from 1981 to current. The recent reformulation is mostly disappointing for those who appreciate the vintage (based on many reviews and comments I have read), yet Luca makes no effort to address this.

    I too find him entertaining but not very useful in terms of learning about fragrances below the surface.
    I'm pretty sure there was something in the introduction about their reviewing the current version of any perfume in the strongest concentration available. Current at that time would have been whatever year the publication date was (sorry I don't have mine handy). Plus, they definitely do mention reformulations - read the Tabac Blond review, for example.

    Plus, there was an update (The Little Book of Perfume or something like that) where they revisit 100 perfumes mentioned in The Guide, and from what I remember reading a few were downgraded in their ratings because of reformulation.

  38. #98

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Yeah, he did criticise a few in the Little Book of Perfumes, though he praised the Dior Homme reformulation**. He also ranked the Yohji Homme re-issue 4 stars rather than 5.

    One notable review in The Guide is Fahrenheit, which he awards two stars despite saying that the fragrance used to be great. Makes you wonder what the grade would be if he was marking on the basis of the original.

    **EDIT: Correction - Tania Sanchez praised the new DH, not LT.

  39. #99

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Last edited by HORNS; 16th April 2014 at 01:41 AM.

  40. #100

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    "This self-congratulating confection is a bit like a party held in 1358 to celebrate 10 years of the Black Death: few people, forced smiles, no music."

    So many contemporary scents would be at this same party!

  41. #101

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by HORNS View Post
    Ahh, thank you horns, almost gave up/forgot. Yes only two reviews instead of three, but oh what reviews they were. One humorously deriding a probably dreadful scent and another giving credit where credit is due. Love it!

  42. #102
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    As anyone who writes such a large volume of reviews might be considered arrogant or otherwise a self-proclaimed expert, and as much as this would tend to attract significant objection and even animosity, Mr. Turin(and Ms. Sanchez) have done what few have while maintaining interest and discussion with humor and wit. Mr. Turin has visited the site many times over the years, despite being victim to mostly undeserved criticism. Yes, his high rating of Estee Lauder Beyond Paradise and others and low ratings of some caused considerable questions as to his expertise, but the general consensus here has been that their combined evaluations were mostly close to Basenotes' members opinions. I would say there are very few members who have been fortunate to have tried the thousands of fragrances he and Ms. Sanchez have tried without having an opinion of a few that would cause significant disagreement as well. Perhaps Mr. Turin has grown somewhat tired of the level of nastiness above the genuinely polite criticisms.

  43. #103

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Always great to see some new reviews from LT
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  44. #104

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by SereneGreen View Post
    Perhaps Luca realized how toxic his work was to the fragrance community and left.
    I'm pretty sure that's not the reason why Luca doesn't frequent the Basenotes forums

    With that said, let's keep in mind a couple of things:

    a) Luca's a member of the site. Even though he's more of a public figure, that doesn't give us the right to claim that his (or his wife's) work is toxic. It doesn't grant him immunity either, but we wouldn't say something this snide about another member's reviews, or even another member of the community who has a greater involvement with the industry. There are bloggers here who arguably have as high if not higher readership than Luca and Tania—the same level of decency extends to them, whether or not we agree / disagree.

    b) Luca and Tania are simply writing and publishing reviews. Granted, they've got a sizable readership largely due to Luca's involvement and training, but the real draw of their work is not so much their opinions, but more that they're fantastic, sharp writers. The truth is that their influence is not nearly as large as you think. Consider how aggressively scents like the Givenchy are marketed—one man and one woman's voice won't even cause a dent against the insane artillery of marketing that's required to get the public to willfully accept and buy crap.

    I can't imagine any of us would agree with everything these two have to say, but it's the writing that's the real draw for many of us.
    Last edited by deadidol; 16th April 2014 at 08:28 AM.

  45. #105

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Isn't the above vitriol exactly why you were banned the first time - under moniker NoirDrakkar.
    Last edited by lpp; 16th April 2014 at 02:47 PM.

    for swap/sale:





  46. #106
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by hedonist222 View Post
    Isn't the above vitriol exactly why were banned the first time - under moniker NoirDrakkar.
    Rest assured - further posts of that nature will not be tolerated. And it is still up for debate whether this one will be.....
    * * * *

  47. #107

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    "This self-congratulating confection is a bit like a party held in 1358 to celebrate 10 years of the Black Death: few people, forced smiles, no music."

    So many contemporary scents would be at this same party!
    Sounds like a few office parties I've been to. The 68 sounds great, though.

    K

  48. #108

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Can someone please just open the trapdoor?
    Last edited by mr. reasonable; 17th April 2014 at 12:09 AM.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  49. #109
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I just hope Luca and Tania have a pile of reviews to put into the new book. This new era of perfumery should provide even more stimulation to the doors of perception that were already clear in 2008.

  50. #110
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Please note that some very offensive content has been removed from this thread.

  51. #111

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Thanks for that.
    “Anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.'”
    ― Isaac Asimov

  52. #112
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Personally, I love the book and the review style. Do I take it as gospel? No, I use my nose......but it's great reading and has gotten me to try many fragrances I would not have without reading it. Kudos to Turin for not taking the easy way out and giving everything good reviews....
    improving olfactory environments one molecule at a time....

  53. #113

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Please note that some very offensive content has been removed from this thread.
    What did I miss? I go to bed for the evening and all the fireworks happen.
    I'm guessing SereneGreen was spouting off the usual disdain for LT?

  54. #114

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Most people are like sheep and are just jealous of Turin's success or anyone's success.

    As sheep, they are also lazy and can't be arsed to do the research and hard work involved in getting a book published.

    Ok -- I don't agree with all the reviews (so what) -- but the writing is wonderful and hilarious on occasions. I'll be first in line for a new edition.

  55. #115
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Quote Originally Posted by mr. reasonable View Post
    Thanks for that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Indagnacious View Post
    What did I miss? I go to bed for the evening and all the fireworks happen.
    I'm guessing SereneGreen was spouting off the usual disdain for LT?
    You're welcome mr.r.

    @ Indagnacious - we just had to clean up the thread a little as the poster is unable to edit his comment right now.

  56. #116

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    Gotcha. Thanks Ipp

  57. #117
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    You're welcome, Indagnacious

    Back to the reviews - they often make me chuckle!
    Last edited by lpp; 16th April 2014 at 07:02 PM.

  58. #118
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    The CK IN2U reviews are worth the price of admission alone

    It's just damn clever and insightful writing....

    I can completely understand their viewpoint, especially Turin. I have only rarely had to review music (during the four years I worked at the major labels instead of being a performer) and my reviews were pretty harsh. Where Turin can smell all of these fine details and they bring up an entire history of the field of perfumery for him (and to me either "smell good" or "smell bad") - the same happens to me with music. The average listener says "that doesn't sound all that good" -- To me, it might be "well, we have heard THAT chord progression since Bach, and it was wore out in the late 1800s. And why did they sample John Bonham's snare drum and THEN stick a gated reverb on it? Are you kidding me? This is the most plagiaristic, unoriginal, banal tripe I have ever HEARD! Why doesn't this band get a clue, a decent producer, and some chord changes that aren't from 1749?" lol.....
    improving olfactory environments one molecule at a time....

  59. #119

    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    That line about the party to celebrate 10 years of the Black Death is Turin at his best. He is the master of the epigram. Not to slight Tania Sanchez, who is also great. Of course no reader will always agree with them. They don't always agree with each other. I bet Turin doesn't even always agree with himself.

    I enjoyed the link to the new reviews. Thank you for posting that. I, too, look forward to the new book.

  60. #120
    kumquat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why did Luca Turin dissapear from style?

    I guess I may be the only one who is not convinced by the testing on paper strips.

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