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  1. #121

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Flanker diarrhea.
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  2. #122
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Faux luxury and promises of exclusiveness.


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  3. #123

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Switch245 View Post
    I never noticed that about Slumberhouse. The store page was surprising!
    Dang. Yeah. And I just got involved in a Slumberhouse pass. Well, I'm going to give their fragrances a try, and if I like them, I am going to write them and tell them that I find that photo disturbing.

    Just so you know, I'm fine with porn if its for and about adults, but it has its place, and a perfume shops is not one of those.

  4. #124

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by purplebird7 View Post
    Dang. Yeah. And I just got involved in a Slumberhouse pass. Well, I'm going to give their fragrances a try, and if I like them, I am going to write them and tell them that I find that photo disturbing.

    Just so you know, I'm fine with porn if its for and about adults, but it has its place, and a perfume shops is not one of those.
    There is a response posted from Josh about this. The honest truth is that he doesn't care if someone doesn't like it, and that's exactly why I appreciate everything he's doing. Now personally I don't really think the image needs to be there, but we need more perfumers like him, who are running things THEIR way. I LOVE the fact that no one can tell him he can't have that on his site.

  5. #125
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    It amazes me that people complain about censorship if the mods here delete stuff - yet people are quite happy to ask a perfumer to delete an image from another website.
    Hmm.

    I wonder what the response would be if one wrote to the powers-that-be about the Axe adverts - not that I would personally bother because I don't have to look at them (they don't actually upset me - I just can't resist having a dig about these things when opportune moments arise).

    Amazed and confused.

  6. #126

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    Amazed and confused.
    To say the least! But if the art on the site (there's no pornography on the site) offends you, I'd stay far far away from the fragrances themselves (and TV, film, art galleries, literature etc.)

    Tom Ford, Dolce & Gabana, Marc Jacobs, Jill Sanders, Gucci are all using explicit, often violent, images of sex to sell their products -- and some of which are depicting graphic insinuations of rape. The Slumberhouse site features an antique silhouette of some vintage, illustrated bawdiness (they're not even people). I only hope that emails akin to the one that was sent to Josh (and yes, I read that email) are being sent to all these other companies.

    This thread reads like Phyllis Schafly and Tipper Gore are behind it now. And there are comparisons to be made here in the Tipper Gore built her whole PMRC campaign going after independents artists because she knew she could harm them, letting the big companies get away with murder.

    Screen Shot 2013-12-15 at 10.32.59 AM.jpg

  7. #127

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    It amazes me that people complain about censorship if the mods here delete stuff - yet people are quite happy to ask a perfumer to delete an image from another website.
    Hmm.

    I wonder what the response would be if one wrote to the powers-that-be about the Axe adverts - not that I would personally bother because I don't have to look at them (they don't actually upset me - I just can't resist having a dig about these things when opportune moments arise).

    Amazed and confused.
    Totally agree. I am so not into censorship. Yesterday we went to see the movie, The Book Thief. It's good to be reminded there was a time when the Slumberhouse image would have gotten that guy killed -- and not just in Germany. I hope we keep far from that slippery slope. Freedom is so precious, I'd rather allow the worst muck than risk missing one genius. Besides, it's so easy to just close the browser, flip the switch, tune to another channel.

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    T...Tom Ford, Dolce & Gabana, Marc Jacobs, Jill Sanders, Gucci are all using explicit, often violent, images of sex to sell their products -- and some of which are depicting graphic insinuations of rape. ...

    Screen Shot 2013-12-15 at 10.32.59 AM.jpg

    OTOH, we have voices for a reason. Objecting to depictions of violence in ads is, IMO, a proper use of freedom.
    Last edited by ScentFan; 15th December 2013 at 05:52 PM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by ScentFan View Post
    OTOH, we have voices for a reason. Objecting to depictions of violence in ads is, IMO, a proper use of freedom.
    Or you could always play the PMRC card and go after the little guy who's innovates within a soulless industry and ignore the far more problematic companies. Check out the Biafra trial to see the harm Gore caused that man for including a piece of artwork by HR Giger in one of his albums. An artist, included the work of another artist in his work, and out came the pitchforks. Sound familiar?

    Luckily, art won out in that scenario, but not before she managed to ruin several people's lives.

    Anyhow, this is getting way off track and I'm largely to blame, so I apologize and I hope the thread can return to its original purpose.

  9. #129

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Or you could always play the PMRC card and go after the little guy who's innovates within a soulless industry and ignore the far more problematic companies. Check out the Biafra trial to see the harm Gore caused that man for including a piece of artwork by HR Giger in one of his albums. An artist, included the work of another artist in his work, and out came the pitchforks. Sound familiar?

    Luckily, art won out in that scenario, but not before she managed to ruin several people's lives.

    Anyhow, this is getting way off track and I'm largely to blame, so I apologize and I hope the thread can return to its original purpose.

    Who wrote the letter to Josh?

  10. #130
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    There is the exception to freedom of speech which crosses the line of appropriateness and acceptability; as in yelling "FIRE" in a crowded theatre. Any behavior that causes harm or instigates victimization should be shunned and expunged. The only way we can effectively protest these violations of propriety is by withholding our money from the offending companies.

  11. #131
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    Who wrote the letter to Josh?

    The member has not come forward, Buysblind.

    Anyways, poor fragrances put me off a lot of houses - please form an orderly queue .....
    Last edited by lpp; 15th December 2013 at 06:19 PM.

  12. #132

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    To say the least! But if the art on the site (there's no pornography on the site) offends you, I'd stay far far away from the fragrances themselves (and TV, film, art galleries, literature etc.)

    Tom Ford, Dolce & Gabana, Marc Jacobs, Jill Sanders, Gucci are all using explicit, often violent, images of sex to sell their products -- and some of which are depicting graphic insinuations of rape. The Slumberhouse site features an antique silhouette of some vintage, illustrated bawdiness (they're not even people). I only hope that emails akin to the one that was sent to Josh (and yes, I read that email) are being sent to all these other companies.
    ...
    I totally agree with you.

    But I doubt that Jil Sander is „using explicit, often violent, images of sex to sell” any product. Do you have an example that lead you to this statement?

  13. #133

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Graphite View Post
    I totally agree with you.

    But I doubt that Jil Sander is „using explicit, often violent, images of sex to sell” any product. Do you have an example that lead you to this statement?
    To me it's not offensive at all, but if people are getting butthurt over Victorian cartoons, then don't click on the link.

    I should probably clarify that I work in the arts and so very little of what's being discussed is even remotely offensive to me (I'm offended by the kind stuff that Sephora sells as "fragrance" though) The Tom Ford, D&G images are striking in their compositions, but degraded in their company's motives.
    Last edited by deadidol; 15th December 2013 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #134

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    I am not sure if this is an official ad. It is so not in line with the Jil Sander style that is mainly about purity and formal perfection.

  15. #135
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    It was a part of an official campaign.

  16. #136

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    Who wrote the letter to Josh?
    That doesn't really matter.

  17. #137

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by lpp View Post
    It was a part of an official campaign.
    Thanks for the information. That is really astonishing. Possibly that happened in the phase when Mrs Sander wasn't in charge.

  18. #138

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    That doesn't really matter.

    Cop out.

  19. #139

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by Buysblind View Post
    Cop out.
    Heh!

    Seriously though, concerns raised about the image are legit and this all emerged from a fairly innocent concern that should be respected. It's been blown out of perspective is all in that there are far worse instances of such things that people choose to ignore in lieu of stuff like this.

    The reason the perfumer got involved was because of the email that raised concerns in the way it was phrased. He's fine and understands what's going on now, so it's probably a good moment to just move on. But for anyone truly offended by a cartoon/antique/artwork, I'd invite you to pay closer attention to the world you live in and question why certain things are acceptable and others aren't. Morals and convictions are vital to being a fully formed human, but it's revealing to know where those morals originate.

  20. #140

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Heh!

    Seriously though, concerns raised about the image are legit and this all emerged from a fairly innocent concern that should be respected. It's been blown out of perspective is all in that there are far worse instances of such things that people choose to ignore in lieu of stuff like this.

    The reason the perfumer got involved was because of the email that raised concerns in the way it was phrased. He's fine and understands what's going on now, so it's probably a good moment to just move on. But for anyone truly offended by a cartoon/antique/artwork, I'd invite you to pay closer attention to the world you live in and question why certain things are acceptable and others aren't. Morals and convictions are vital to being a fully formed human, but it's revealing to know where those morals originate.
    Okay, okay....I thought maybe I could slip one past the goalie.

  21. #141
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    What put me off about the Slumberhouse page is not the image per se.

    What bothers me is the "gotcha"-- if I view a fragrance website I do not wish to be surprised by images of sex acts. I don't want to be presented with such images in contexts where I would not expect to see them. That makes it feel involuntary, and IMO that violates good taste.
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  22. #142

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    ^ totally valid, but again, I'd say be careful dealing with art in general then as, by nature, it's designed to provoke, shock, and raise emotions. Slumberhouse is about art as much as it is perfume, which is why the line is divisive in all aspects. It bears little connection to traditional perfumery and is the opposite of safe or "nice."

  23. #143
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    I don't know anything about Slumberhouse, but looking at the website, I would not have come to the conclusion that it had anything to do with art, beyond any perfume being art in some form.

    If that makes me Philistine, so be it.
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  24. #144

    Default What puts you off about a house?

    ^ That's exactly it -- the fragrances themselves are highly evocative, expressionistic, passionate splashes of scents made from bizarre materials. The art is all in the scent.

    And that's actually what was more shocking to me about those images. The scents were designed to have no narrative intrusion so the wearer can imprint their own reading. This is why they're essentially unnamed through neologisms. The images do create a narrative element, but when you smell Zahd, it makes sense as to why they're there.

    Don't expect "perfume" from the line--it's much more than that.

  25. #145
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Methinks you are easily swayed.

  26. #146

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    Or you could always play the PMRC card and go after the little guy who's innovates within a soulless industry and ignore the far more problematic companies. Check out the Biafra trial to see the harm Gore caused that man for including a piece of artwork by HR Giger in one of his albums. An artist, included the work of another artist in his work, and out came the pitchforks. Sound familiar?

    Luckily, art won out in that scenario, but not before she managed to ruin several people's lives.

    Anyhow, this is getting way off track and I'm largely to blame, so I apologize and I hope the thread can return to its original purpose.
    You've misread me. I have no problem with the Slumberhouse image. I was talking about the Dolce & Gabanna ad which is a clear suggestion of rape -- a nonconsentual and violent sex act. I have zero problem with consentual sex of any kind between adults, or with its depiction. Crimes are another thing.

    Also, no idea what the PMRC card is, so I can't play it.

  27. #147

    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by kumquat View Post
    Methinks you are easily swayed.
    Thanks.

  28. #148
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    This advert was apparently banned from television over here for referencing illegal drugs.


  29. #149
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    ^ totally valid, but again, I'd say be careful dealing with art in general then as, by nature, it's designed to provoke, shock, and raise emotions. Slumberhouse is about art as much as it is perfume, which is why the line is divisive in all aspects. It bears little connection to traditional perfumery and is the opposite of safe or "nice."

    I agree with your assessment that someone with my particular set of personal convictions has to be careful in the art world. I love art, photography in particular, but all sorts of media and I find it frustrating that it seems so difficult to see great art without it being sexualized, or juxtaposed against sexualized pieces. However, I seem to be part of the minority.

  30. #150
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    Default Re: What puts you off about a house?

    Quote Originally Posted by deadidol View Post
    ^ totally valid, but again, I'd say be careful dealing with art in general then as, by nature, it's designed to provoke, shock, and raise emotions. Slumberhouse is about art as much as it is perfume, which is why the line is divisive in all aspects. It bears little connection to traditional perfumery and is the opposite of safe or "nice."
    Oh, and this isn't on topic in the least, but offering another perspective, I don't agree that art is always, or exclusively designed to provoke, shock or raise emotions. Certainly it is at times, and seemingly, that tendency increases as time passes. However, I enjoy art when it offers a new way to see, a new perspective, not necessarily provocative, but fresh and interesting and opening the eye of the viewer to beauty that was perhaps previously undiscovered. This is the way that I try to present art photography and it's the sort I listen to.

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