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  1. #1
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    Default Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Does anyone know of an aldehyde that might be described as woody? How about piney or balsamic? I'm wanting to make a schiffs base that has a dry, clean, woody smell but I don't know much about aldehydes. I'm not really looking for "fatty/woody' or "waxy/woody" like sandalwood is often described. I know of the obvious aldehydes that have C or "aldehyde" in the name but I am discovering that there are quite a few that don't have "aldehyde" in the name so I'm not sure how to look them up when "aldehyde" isn't in the name.

    Also, is there a reference somewhere of all of the aldehydes and the schiff bases that can be made with them? Am I correct in thinking that bases can also be made with indole or are they only made with methyl anthranilate and an aldehyde?
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 17th December 2013 at 10:38 PM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  2. #2

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    There was a dearth of comparative information about Schiff Bases, so I did my own comparative analysis.
    This is every reference that I could find about Schiff Bases Cross referenced and compared.

    You can find my two documents at these two links:

    http://pkperfumes.com/?attachment_id=1246
    This link is all the information to fit on single pages - Best for reading on your Computer

    http://pkperfumes.com/?attachment_id=1245

    This link is to print out on several pieces of paper, and tape them together to make a wall poster reference chart.


    Mine looks like this on the wall:

    Schiff base Poster.jpg

    PK




    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  3. #3

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    These aren't chems, but have you considered katrafay and guaiac? They're pretty dry..

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    WOW, thanks Paul!
    Justin E. Beasley

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    These aren't chems, but have you considered katrafay and guaiac? They're pretty dry..
    Katafray I'm not familiar with and while I do love guaiacwood it's more smokey and fatty smelling than what I am looking for in my current project.
    Justin E. Beasley

  6. #6

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Hmm.. Never noticed it's fatty, but I haven't worn it to drydown..
    Maybe I'll brave it one day

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    It doesn't really seem so fatty by itself but I find that when I blend it with anything it acts in ways similar to sandalwood and gives a creamy, milky, fatty aspect that I don't always want in a blend. It doesn't smell as fatty as sandalwood to me but it's still there I think. The one I'm working on now is a clean woody smell and I'm trying to get a distinct dry woodiness that dries down to a clean smell rather than milky and smokey.
    Justin E. Beasley

  8. #8

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    I just came across norlimbanol.. Sounds relevant, though I have't smelled it..

    Now it all makes sense - I only tried it with sandalwood and labdanum, and it kind of dried them out because it's drier
    Last edited by Nizan; 18th December 2013 at 04:03 PM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Nizan View Post
    I just came across norlimbanol.. Sounds relevant, though I have't smelled it..

    Now it all makes sense - I only tried it with sandalwood and labdanum, and it kind of dried them out because it's drier
    I'm not understanding your comment, what did you try with sandalwood and labdanum?

    I have norlimbanol, it's an extremely dry, cedary, musky smell without the urine note. I like it but it's not what I'm trying to accomplish as it's a bit too cedar-like and cedar isn't what I'm going for. I want woody as in vetiver without the bitterness and woody like orris without the floral aspect. I've been using a lot of Kephalis as it's very close to what I'm looking for but it doesn't quite have the body or punch I need and it's logevity leaves something to be desired. I've worked up a musk base that compliments it but it still dries down a bit too soft and too quickly. I came up with a pretty good formula for a warm and dry woody perfume but I want to increase it's longevity and silage and fill out the body a bit. Hedione has helped quite a bit but but I'm trying to fill it out more with aroma vs the diffusive effects hedione offers. I also really need to revamp the top notes too but for now I'm working on increasing longevity and silage. I'm thinking about improving the longevity with a schiff base while filling out the body and increasing silage with the aldehyde component, this is why I'm looking for an aldehyde and schiff base that is woody in character. Using search strings the only woody aldehyde I've come up with is C-12 MNA so I'll mess around with that and see if I can get it to work.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 18th December 2013 at 05:23 PM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  10. #10

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Just yesterday I Received Aphermate, and first association then smelled it was Kephalis. Aphermate TOP/MID note in my opinion, very clean, slightly camphoraceus, green and woody. Maybe can fit to you. For base few drops Javanol: very dry and with better sillage from all santal substitutes what I know, without milkynes and just slightly pungent, less than Norlimbanol. And look at Adoxal, maybe you have it. With woods it have dry iris root aspects for my nose.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramute View Post
    Just yesterday I Received Aphermate, and first association then smelled it was Kephalis. Aphermate TOP/MID note in my opinion, very clean, slightly camphoraceus, green and woody. Maybe can fit to you. For base few drops Javanol: very dry and with better sillage from all santal substitutes what I know, without milkynes and just slightly pungent, less than Norlimbanol. And look at Adoxal, maybe you have it. With woods it have dry iris root aspects for my nose.
    Thanks Ramute, I will work with those. Javanol is a bit more fresh and pungent, I hadn't thought of it because of its association with sandalwood but it might help build a good woody and fresh musk accord. I don't have Aphermate or Adoxal but I'll look into them as another possibility.
    Justin E. Beasley

  12. #12

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    I just did a 'woody aldehyde' type search on TGSC, and found only one, Nopyl Aldehyde, but also didn't find any suppliers...

    Sorry...
    Paul Kiler
    PK Perfumes
    http://www.PKPERFUMES.com
    Gold Medal for "Best Aroma"; Los Angeles Artisan Fragrance Salon

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Quote Originally Posted by pkiler View Post
    I just did a 'woody aldehyde' type search on TGSC, and found only one, Nopyl Aldehyde, but also didn't find any suppliers...

    Sorry...
    Thanks Paul, I got similar (meaning none) but I was wondering if anyone knew something TGSC didn't. Oh well, I'll work with what I have and figure something out.
    Last edited by JEBeasley; 19th December 2013 at 01:33 AM.
    Justin E. Beasley

  14. #14

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Could you let us know what you find? I was also looking for something similar (including the orris..)..
    I will try spikenard at low dilution on my base.. Might work

  15. #15

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ramute View Post
    Just yesterday I Received Aphermate, and first association then smelled it was Kephalis. Aphermate TOP/MID note in my opinion, very clean, slightly camphoraceus, green and woody. Maybe can fit to you. For base few drops Javanol: very dry and with better sillage from all santal substitutes what I know, without milkynes and just slightly pungent, less than Norlimbanol. And look at Adoxal, maybe you have it. With woods it have dry iris root aspects for my nose.
    Hmm.. The javanol description says it's creamy.. I was about to buy some,
    and then saw this.. I'm looking to reproduce the creaminess of sandal,
    w/o the slight smokiness that mine has..

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Javanol is creamy, you might also consider ebanol - I spilled a whole diluted bottle in my lap two days ago, it is creamy but also quite voluminous. Although, if you are looking for "clean" then I'm not sure if it would work but that depends on how you define that. Javanol has a clean aspect but it's fatty/creamy clean vs rosewood, coriander, lavender aromatic clean or kephalis, iso e super and vertenex which smell somewhat camphoraceously clean. Anyway, Javanol is creamy but clean and definitely lacks any hint of smoke.
    Justin E. Beasley

  17. #17

    Default Re: Woody shiff base and aldehydes?

    Thanks.. Next month

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